870 Short Shotgun

Texas allows owning but forbade carrying them. In September that changes mostly, biggee than 5.5" are still prohibited in areas CHLers can't carry.

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So low speed, i'm in Park.

"I could stand to hear a little more.." Jayne

Training is brief. Death is forever. PAY ATTENTION.

Joined: 6/14/03 1:02 PM

I had heard rumors that the tac-14 and shockwave were verboten in NC. A buddy of mine from back there owns a gun shop and he said they have been selling them just fine.

 Both companies now offer them in 20g.

---------------------------------- The movie "Idiocracy" was not fiction, it is prophetic though. Malo periculosam libertatem quam quietum servitium. - I prefer liberty with danger to peace with slavery.

Per the latest legal update, the Shockwave type Not A Shotgun is apparently now TX legal.

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So low speed, i'm in Park.

"I could stand to hear a little more.." Jayne

Training is brief. Death is forever. PAY ATTENTION.

Joined: 6/14/03 1:02 PM

nursetim posted:

I had heard rumors that the tac-14 and shockwave were verboten in NC. A buddy of mine from back there owns a gun shop and he said they have been selling them just fine.

 Both companies now offer them in 20g.

They are absolutely a "Weapon of mass destruction" as far as the statute goes, however, one opinion I got from a former assistant state AG (who many consider THE authority on NC weapons laws) was that the statute also states if the weapon is in compliance with federal law, then it is good to go. Prior to retiring, I called the AG's office for an official opinion since I was getting inquiries from gunshops. We have a new AG, and the staff attorney I spoke to had no clue how they were going to handle it, and were consulting my original contact for help.

That said, I know for a fact the DA in Guilford county has said he will not only prosecute those found in possession, but will also charge the shop guys who sold it if the shop is in his jurisdiction. The DA  in my county had no opinion from my last contact. Those who asked me about them, I advised against purchase. I wouldn't want to be the crash test dummy. I do believe anyone charged would ultimately prevail, but at what cost? Additionally, the is one county. God knows we have our share of libtard  infested ones I imagine would take the same approach. Bullshit? Yes. But for me, the juice ain't worth the squeeze. That said, gun shops around here are selling them like hotcakes.

Location: North Carolina

CWM11B posted:
nursetim posted:

I had heard rumors that the tac-14 and shockwave were verboten in NC. A buddy of mine from back there owns a gun shop and he said they have been selling them just fine.

 Both companies now offer them in 20g.

They are absolutely a "Weapon of mass destruction" as far as the statute goes, however, one opinion I got from a former assistant state AG (who many consider THE authority on NC weapons laws) was that the statute also states if the weapon is in compliance with federal law, then it is good to go. Prior to retiring, I called the AG's office for an official opinion since I was getting inquiries from gunshops. We have a new AG, and the staff attorney I spoke to had no clue how they were going to handle it, and were consulting my original contact for help.

That said, I know for a fact the DA in Guilford county has said he will not only prosecute those found in possession, but will also charge the shop guys who sold it if the shop is in his jurisdiction. The DA  in my county had no opinion from my last contact. Those who asked me about them, I advised against purchase. I wouldn't want to be the crash test dummy. I do believe anyone charged would ultimately prevail, but at what cost? Additionally, the is one county. God knows we have our share of libtard  infested ones I imagine would take the same approach. Bullshit? Yes. But for me, the juice ain't worth the squeeze. That said, gun shops around here are selling them like hotcakes.

Your AG Josh Stein is not in the least bit second amendment friendly. The fact that y’all are still allowed to possess firearms amazes me and confounds him. We went to HS together. Rest assured, he WILL be running for governor and may well have presidential aspirations.

---------------------------------- The movie "Idiocracy" was not fiction, it is prophetic though. Malo periculosam libertatem quam quietum servitium. - I prefer liberty with danger to peace with slavery.

Thread drift: Yeah, I know all about his 2A stance. NC is rapidly becoming the southern annex of northeast liberal mindset, thanks to all the libs fleeing their progressive paradises. I imagine you are correct. Ol' Roy the governer is surely going to run for Senate since Burr is retiring, and I imagine Stein will roll in after him. The AG's office seems to be the bull pen for governor. I cannot recall a decent AG in my adult life, and certainly not for my LE career. I'm afraid NC is going to be un-livable for liberty minded LF types in ten to fifteen years. Trying to convince the wife to move.

Back on topic: Legal issues notwithstanding, range fun toy is the only use I see for this or the Shockwave. On another note, aside from Remington's QC issues, they now appear to be in financial straights as well:

 

 wwwDOTphillyDOT/philly/blogs/inq-phillydeals/gunmaker-remington-faces-default-as-americans-buy-fewer-firearms-20171117.html?mobi=true

 

Location: North Carolina

CWM11B posted:

Back on topic: Legal issues notwithstanding, range fun toy is the only use I see for this or the Shockwave. On another note, aside from Remington's QC issues, they now appear to be in financial straights as well:

 

 

I will neither confirm nor deny having one of the first 20ga Shockwaves.  It's a bit like riding mopeds or fat chicks...may be fun but I don't want my friends to catch me with one.   Functionally it's about fucking worthless...but dang if it ain't fun and a cheap novelty.  Is also my support of the passive aggressive #NotAShotgun loophole mastery, and it's only a matter of time before some mouth-breather fucks it up.  Until then, the unclassified firearm category is getting interesting:

http://soldiersystems.net/2017...tactical-st-thumper/

Sometimes a teacher, always a student.  I learn.  My original opinion was that it was pretty much a toy.  Something with visual appeal, but not real utility.  Almost 20 years ago, I saw a guy use a PG only shotgun at a side match and he was pretty good.  Not as fast as a shotgun with a buttstock, but he kept it in front of him, used the sights and didn't eat it.  He never shot it from the hip.  That was my first inkling that there was a way to shoot one with better effectiveness.  I built one on an 870 a couple of years before Mossberg and Remington offered factory versions.  Here's a video that Clint Smith made.

-------------------------

Mark

Swear allegiance to the flag Whatever flag they offer

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Joined:  2/24/2003                          Location:  Nevada, USA

Someone else said it, but this on a single point, pushed out to full extension right on the sling may actually work pretty well.

And - SHOCKER - They are actually legal in NJ!

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Joined: 03/08/2008     Location: Sandy Hook, NJ

pointblank4445 posted:
CWM11B posted:

Back on topic: Legal issues notwithstanding, range fun toy is the only use I see for this or the Shockwave. On another note, aside from Remington's QC issues, they now appear to be in financial straights as well:

 

 

I will neither confirm nor deny having one of the first 20ga Shockwaves.  It's a bit like riding mopeds or fat chicks...may be fun but I don't want my friends to catch me with one.   Functionally it's about fucking worthless...but dang if it ain't fun and a cheap novelty.  Is also my support of the passive aggressive #NotAShotgun loophole mastery, and it's only a matter of time before some mouth-breather fucks it up.  Until then, the unclassified firearm category is getting interesting:

http://soldiersystems.net/2017...tactical-st-thumper/

PB feedback on the 20ga version as I’m looking hard @ the Mossie 12ga for my ride here in Tejas.

Joined: 3.28.09            

Location: NETX

MG in TX posted

PB feedback on the 20ga version as I’m looking hard @ the Mossie 12ga for my ride here in Tejas.

As noted above and in the Clint Smith video, you CAN indeed achieve hits with it.  It maybe took me a handful of birdshot shells to get the hang of it.  I haven't had it long, but it seems like it hits high when I am actually trying to aim the gun via the bead and dead on when I ignore the bead and "point shoot" it at extension as described.

The pattern is pretty unexceptional.  I used #3 buckshot which had 20 pellets on a piece of cardboard at about 15ish yards or just a hair closer and I counted 19/20 pellets taking up the entirety of a 30"x30" section.   However, it was good fun smashing up our discarded pumpkins at 10 paces.  

Though many rightfully advise against it, the first thing I did was ditch the fore end loop which is merely an inelegant piece of strap with 4 sheet metal screws.  After filing down the screw hole burrs, I put some serious grit skateboard tape over them.   I have no interest in taking this thing out to the back 40 with Bubba Jim Bob to see how we can execute the fastest rolling thunder drill with magnum slugs for the fuck of it.  I don't plan on running the gun at anything less than a conservative pace so I feel the grip tape is sufficient to keep my support hand intact.  

IMG_0799

I also had an extra velcro side saddle (Raven Concealment?) so I added that too; being made for a 12ga, the shells want to ride up in the saddle a bit, but it doesn't matter.  As far as the gun goes, it's neat to see a 590 spec 20ga (which this is the only way to get one at this time).  The only thing so far I have noticed is that the shell latches require a bit more force to overcome than normal to feed the mag tube.  I'll keep an eye on that.

So to expound on my sentiment above of "about fucking worthless", I truly believe it does nothing functionally better than than a traditional pistol, rifle, or stocked 18" shotgun.  First, I would have to say if one is decently capable with a pistol, then the Shockwave/Tac14 offers you little to nothing.  It's got all the same problems of a normal shotgun in a shorter, less-accurate package with even less standoff.  It sure as hell doesn't best a rifle in anyway.  And if one insists on a shotgun, the 26" length doesn't save give much back from the what is lost from a full-featured shotgun.  

Don't get me wrong, if it were the only thing handy in a pinch, I could certainly ruin somebody's day with it in short order.  Plus it does look rather imposing to the uninitiated.  But at the end of the day, the gun ranks out pretty low in my inventory of "guns I would take into harm's way"...probably below my BuckMark and even with or just ahead of my S&W 651 .22wmr "kit gun" revolver.   Even though I'm not one who think's it's bad to have upgrades on duty/carry guns, I sure as shit don't want to be the first person to tag someone with one of these things.  The great thing about it...it's cheap, and unlike say a stock Glock it's not hard to leave it alone in it's current form.  It's cheap and expendable.  That's what it bring's to the table.  

Lord knows I've done some impressive mental gymnastics to justify my expenditures.  At best, there are a few uber-specific scenarios I can remember from my youth; roaming around with impunity and ridding the agrarian landscape of vermin, where such a "firearm" could be a viable tool on occasion.  Youthful indiscretions being what they are, I will comment no further.

 

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pointblank4445 posted:
MG in TX posted

PB feedback on the 20ga version as I’m looking hard @ the Mossie 12ga for my ride here in Tejas.

As noted above and in the Clint Smith video, you CAN indeed achieve hits with it.  It maybe took me a handful of birdshot shells to get the hang of it.  I haven't had it long, but it seems like it hits high when I am actually trying to aim the gun via the bead and dead on when I ignore the bead and "point shoot" it at extension as described.

The pattern is pretty unexceptional.  I used #3 buckshot which had 20 pellets on a piece of cardboard at about 15ish yards or just a hair closer and I counted 19/20 pellets taking up the entirety of a 30"x30" section.   Though it was good fun smashing up our discarded pumpkins at 10 paces.  

Though many rightfully advise against it, the first thing I did was ditch the fore end loop which is merely an inelegant piece of strap with 4 sheet metal screws.  After filing down the screw hole burs, I put some serious grit skateboard tape over them.   I have no interest in taking this thing out to the back 40 with Bubba Jim Bob to see how we can execute the fastest rolling thunder drill with magnum slugs for the fuck of it.  I don't plan on running the gun at anything less than a conservative pace so I feel the grip tape is sufficient to keep my support hand intact.  

IMG_0799

I also had an extra velcro side saddle (Raven Concealment?) so I added that too; being made for a 12ga, the shells want to ride up in the saddle a bit, but it doesn't matter.  As far as the gun goes, it's neat to see a 590 spec 20ga (which this is the only way to get one at this time).  The only thing so far I have noticed is that the shell latches require a bit more force to overcome than normal to feed the mag tube.  I'll keep an eye on that.

So to expound on my sentiment above of "about fucking worthless", I truly believe it does nothing functionally better than than a traditional pistol, rifle, or stocked 18" shotgun.  First, I would have to say if one is decently capable with a pistol, then the Shockwave/Tac14 offers you little to nothing.  It's got all the same problems of a normal shotgun in a shorter, less-accurate package with even less standoff.  It sure as hell doesn't best a rifle in anyway.  And if one insists on a shotgun, the 26" length doesn't save give much back from the what is lost from a full-featured shotgun.  

Don't get me wrong, if it were the only thing handy in a pinch, I could certainly ruin somebody's day with it in short order.  Plus it does look rather imposing to the uninitiated.  But at the end of the day, the gun ranks out pretty low in my inventory of "guns I would take into harm's way"...probably below my BuckMark and even with or just ahead of my S&W 651 .22wmr "kit gun" revolver.   Even though I'm not one who think's it's bad to have upgrades on duty/carry guns, I sure as shit don't want to be the first person to tag someone with one of these things.  The great thing about it...it's cheap, and unlike say a stock Glock it's not hard to leave it alone in it's current form.  It's cheap and expendable.  That's what it bring's to the table.  

Lord knows I've done some impressive mental gymnastics to justify my expenditures.  At best, there are a few uber-specific scenarios I can remember from my youth; roaming around with impunity and ridding the agrarian landscape of vermin, where such a "firearm" could be a viable tool on occasion.  Youthful indiscretions being what they are, I will comment not further.

 

Your epic mental gymnastics are doing nothing to make me want to buy one and I seriously thank you for that. 

They are, however, making me want to try one just for kicks. 

Mojo/Mark
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Joined: 9/30/09
Location: Northern Nevada (Reno/Sparks)

Mojo,

Correct me if I'm wrong, but in NV you can have SBS's should you feel the need.  Here in IL, this is as close as a non-LE is ever going to get to that. 

The Shockwave/Tac14 is like watching the movie "Suicide Squad".  It's not as cool as it looks, and falls well short of what you hoped for.  And once you experience it once you're like "meh, I don't need to ever do that again."

It's a novelty to me and a bit of a $300+ "fuck you" to the gun laws on our books.  My expectations were low in that I wanted a non-Remington to eat up 20ga shells and make a mess of things on occasion.  Mission accomplished!

Buck8154 posted:

Would make a good gun for breaching, or instructing breaching, outside of that I'm not sure I would use it for anything other than range fun.

Nah...it's just short.  No pistol grip to help account for the funny angles in breaching.  A foreend grip is a not allowed (if you use one on your breacher).  No standoff device.  You can get a non-NFA gun shotgun better suited for breaching for the same price.

I remember several years ago Knoxx Industries (now owned by BLACKHAWK!) came out with their Sidewinder drum and magazine conversion kit for their 500 series.  I've always had 870P's so I never thought much of it then. Seeing Remington's "new" lineup, I still don't think anything of it. 

Knoxx Industries Sidewinder magazine/drum conversion kit for Mossberg 500

PO0910goodies-1-1

It would be way out of my lane, but I suppose there possibly be could some legitimate niche use for a detachable magazine 870. Either for MIL/LE breaching applications? Other than that it seems like you're taking an already proven system and adding extra weight and bulk without gaining much in return.

Joined: 4 April 2005                Location: San Francisco's uglier cousin. Really, I mean we have just as much traffic, garbage (human and inanimate), ridiculous cost of living and 5150 types. Shit, make that the uglier adopted cousin that no one will sleep with even if a large payment was offered.

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pointblank4445 posted:
Buck8154 posted:

Would make a good gun for breaching, or instructing breaching, outside of that I'm not sure I would use it for anything other than range fun.

Nah...it's just short.  No pistol grip to help account for the funny angles in breaching.  A foreend grip is a not allowed (if you use one on your breacher).  No standoff device.  You can get a non-NFA gun shotgun better suited for breaching for the same price.

Ive never used a pistol grip or fore end grip[ on any breaching guns.  This gun reminded me of the custom 870's the armorer at 2nd Ranger BN were making back in the late 90's.  Those were even shorter from what I remember though.

"I'll try means I'll fail, you either can or you can't, and can't never got anything done".

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GLOCK10MMMG in TX
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