Arctic1's big winter gear thread

Not a sniper but hunting I've started carrying the green patrol bag part of the GI sleeping  bag system.  I'm not sure why you couldn't do something similar.  Especially if you are already laying down using the Serape or the poncho liner.  I'd lay down in it but leave it unzipped for a fast exit it would still be pretty snug.  Use the Goretex Bivy to stay dry and out of the wind.  I get into the stand and toss 2-3 of those super large chemical hand warmers into it and its like building  a fire inside.  I can wear a whole lot less clothing and still stay warm.  Get the whole 3 piece kit and dial up or down as needed.  As assaulters part of our winter kit was a sleeping bag.  Went on the back seat as soon as it started getting cold.  No you could not wear it but you could open it up and drape it over your shoulders like a cape then shrug it off if you had to move.  Helpful on a cold night barricade.   

Originally Posted by fmfbest:

       

Not a sniper but hunting I've started carrying the green patrol bag part of the GI sleeping  bag system.  I'm not sure why you couldn't do something similar.  Especially if you are already laying down using the Serape or the poncho liner.  I'd lay down in it but leave it unzipped for a fast exit it would still be pretty snug.  Use the Goretex Bivy to stay dry and out of the wind.  I get into the stand and toss 2-3 of those super large chemical hand warmers into it and its like building  a fire inside.  I can wear a whole lot less clothing and still stay warm.  Get the whole 3 piece kit and dial up or down as needed.  As assaulters part of our winter kit was a sleeping bag.  Went on the back seat as soon as it started getting cold.  No you could not wear it but you could open it up and drape it over your shoulders like a cape then shrug it off if you had to move.  Helpful on a cold night barricade.   


       


The serape can be made into a sleeping bag which is part of its usefulness.  I have been thinking of swapping out the poncho liner for a bivy, just never got around to it.  Maybe I'll check for a Black Friday deal on one.
___________________
He would have went on livin, but he made one fatal slip, when he tried to match the Ranger with the big iron on his hip.

Don't wish it were easier; wish you were better
For the boots instead of changing gear right now I would try something free first and try to keep your boots as loose as possible especially if your big wool socks are a snug fit with the boots. Depending on your lace system it may vary on how much you can slack off.

For climbing when I do my sock changes I have a thicker pair for the approach as I can have my boots relatively loose and thinner socks for the climb as I need tight boots. For myself at least it seems to help as my feet don't get compressed as much and stays warmer, for hockey though I don't wear socks period  and don't get cold feet so I might just be weird

If someone else already suggested it (probably), sorry, but, I have a Doobie from Kifaru, and I only wish I had had it on any number of previous excursions.

 

Hat.  If uniform/tacticalness is not an issue, I have a Filson Tincloth Wildfowl hat.  Wool lined, this damn thing is warm.  I find that I have to take it off indoors, as my head will sweat too much.

 

http://www.filson.com/products...p;fmetaProduct=1011/

- Gene

____ "Fight like you're the third monkey trying to get on Noah's Ark...".

____ "If you can't do something smart, do something right." - Jayne Cobb

____ " Pull your huggies up, shut the fuck up." - gruntpain

 

Joined: 4/28/08   Location:  Seattle

 

ptrlcop, it sounds like you're packing in a good bit of kit for cold weather.  I can't help but wonder if you wouldn't benefit from replacing the 'cho liner ground cloth with a closed-cell foam sleeping mat and/or a scrap piece of Tyvek.

 

Know what you know; Know what you don't know. -Paul Petzoldt

Originally Posted by krax:

ptrlcop, it sounds like you're packing in a good bit of kit for cold weather.  I can't help but wonder if you wouldn't benefit from replacing the 'cho liner ground cloth with a closed-cell foam sleeping mat and/or a scrap piece of Tyvek.


+1

I have a torso length chunk of green therma rest I keep stowed in my C/S for dismounted OP's during the Oct-May time frame,I find the standoff helps big time in slowing the whole "thermal transfer" of Dirt and snow leeching my precious warmth out of me.

Its about 4' long and rolls into a tidy little tube that I slap on the side of my RAID with the rest of the naus I have to drag to the OP.

 

____________________________________________________________________

Whiskey, Dip, Long Rifles and Short Fuses? Welcome to Alberta son...

 

"You get the boys into the corolla and go downtown for some shwarmas and titties." - GoFaster775

 

Joined: 25/05/10  Location: The Oil Patch of Canada 

 

I've got a pair of Schnees pac boots I plan on wearing for a cold weather call out. I have a mountain serape but didn't think to use it for sniper work. I also have the ground mat from Triad Tactical attached to my pack

Joined: 10/06/06          Location: SW OH

I agree with the closed cell foam mat, and some sort of insulated shelter (Kifaru Woobie, bivvy, etc). These will protect you from heat loss from conduction and convection, which are the worst culprits. Heat lost though radation will be trapped inside the shelter, helping to keep you warm (like a sleeping bag).

 

I also agree on loosening up the boots in order to promote circulation, and so you can fit thicker socks.

 

It might just be me, but I feel that your mid-layer might be a bit excessive.

I wear a t-shirt (or similar) as a base layer and a 200g wool zip neck or grid fleece long sleeved shirt. On top of that is either an insulating jacket (Jacket in a bag, like the Snugpak or similar) or my outer jacket. Overwhites on top of this. I never wear anything on my legs, except field trousers and overwhites.

 

It is the air between the layers that is heated, that keeps you warm. Too much clothes, and the air has no room to move about and distribute heat. This in turn makes you colder, faster. It's not so much the amount of clothes, as it is the right clothes.

 

Hope that makes sense.

It's not about surviving, it's about winning.

Well, today certainly demonstrated the importance of having a barrier between you and the ground if you are prone for any period of time.

I was working in my normal plain clothes assignment when we got info on the location of a wanted subject who had threatened to shoot it out with police.  The plan was to set perimeter in concealed positions and place a phone call inside.  I was positioned across the street with my rifle to confirm if he was unarmed and cover the arrest team if he gave up.

I was laying in some snow that was practically ice from melting/freezing over the last few days.  As phone negotiations took place I could start to feel myself getting cold.  I attempted to raise my core off the ground for a second when I discovered my jeans were frozen to the ground...  Luckily he came out 5min later.

In other news the Swoop Mitts still kick ass.

Edit to add: it was 13 degrees Fahrenheit
___________________
He would have went on livin, but he made one fatal slip, when he tried to match the Ranger with the big iron on his hip.

Don't wish it were easier; wish you were better

That could have gone way worse.

 

I have to ask though, was that prone position the only place to shoot from?  Might there have been another place to set up (hasty urban hide)?

 

Know what you know; Know what you don't know. -Paul Petzoldt

Originally Posted by krax:

       

That could have gone way worse.

 

I have to ask though, was that prone position the only place to shoot from?  Might there have been another place to set up (hasty urban hide)?


       


When we made our plan I thought i was going to be able to set up on the wood deck of the house, out of the snow.  Once i got there i could not see what i needed to see and had to move.  Had things gone longer, i would have pulled out and set up a vehicle hide.
___________________
He would have went on livin, but he made one fatal slip, when he tried to match the Ranger with the big iron on his hip.

Don't wish it were easier; wish you were better

@fmfbest:

Here are a few pics of the overboot system:

Full view:


Sole:


Inside:


With boot:



It is a very simple design:

-Top half is rip stop nylon with a shock cord draw string and cord lock
-Bottom half is waterproof rubber, with a fleece'ish liner, and a draw string that you tie up
-The sole provides a pretty good grip on snow

It is very easy to take on and off, just pull it over the boot.

The most important thing to do with these boots is to air them out when you can, as well as when you are inside. As you guys probably know, no garment provides heat by itself, clothes help keep the layers of air warm. If the air is compressed, never vented/replaced etc it get's cold, and then you get cold. The same goes for the overboots. If you never air them out, even when you are inside, the overboots will become a refrigerator for your feet and you will get cold. You need to stick to routine, and be disciplined.

@geronimo:

The climate varies greatly with where in Norway you are, but at my current station the climate is usually dry and cold. Along the coast and in south-western Norway the climate is milder and wetter. They don't always get that much snow though. We usually get a few mild periods just before winter sets in for the season, and during spring thaw. I agree that wet slop is the worst environment to be in, as everything gets wet like you say. Our overboots are waterproof, and the winter overalls are water resistant, so it helps. We are also currently issued aa Gore-Tex uniform for that kind of weather (0 degrees, wet snow etc).

Can you provide anymore info on the overboots? Do they have an NSN? I'm tracking the NEOs commercially, and also have found some New Balance (of all things) overboots in AOR.  /in fact just found a pair on close out in Coyote. Most of the references I found attribute them to being used by the Navy/SOF, but only in sales pitches.

 

Also how many here have used the Berghaus Yeti Attack gaiters? Supposedly they were/are common  issue for the Brit's. Better yet looking for info on the insulated ones. I may need to put together a new show and tell for a friend to help out with some bootage issues they are having.

 

Thanks

The Amazon link is the one I used, which is for Gearx.  I contacted New Balance about them a few weeks ago and they had zero information, other than discontinued. For $49 I figured what the heck, and baught them. Will share what I find out either here or in a new thread.

The Navigator 5 Mid, Gray is what I was going to grab until the $150 made me pause. I don't need them for my current outdoors needs.

Maybe I can talk him in to buying his own on the impact card.

@Desert01:

 

Here is the NSN for the norwegian overboot:

 

8430-25-133-8853

 

Any particular info you were looking for?

 

As for the Yeti gaiters, I have used them quite a bit.

 

It is a good product, but it has limitations. They are a pain in the ass to get on, and in order for them to stay on you need a boot with the right design. If there is not a significant ridge between the outsole and the upper, it will slip off the front of the boot.

 

The main positives are that they are lightweight, and provide a good level of waterprotection.

 

They do not provide any insulation, as they are unlined (hence the name gaiter).

It's not about surviving, it's about winning.

Don't want to hijack this thread, but I figure out that someone from here would know.

 

I am looking for over white fleece watchcap/toque/beanie. I know that CPGear does one but it seems that they don't want to communicate with me, so I am looking for alternative option. All hints are welcome...

- EM1

---

"We would be perfectly happy to leave in three years time without firing one shot." - British defence secretary John Reid about sending British troops into Helmand in April 2006

 

Joined: 4/1/11          Location: Finland

Originally Posted by ptrlcop:
Well, today certainly demonstrated the importance of having a barrier between you and the ground if you are prone for any period of time.

I was working in my normal plain clothes assignment when we got info on the location of a wanted subject who had threatened to shoot it out with police.  The plan was to set perimeter in concealed positions and place a phone call inside.  I was positioned across the street with my rifle to confirm if he was unarmed and cover the arrest team if he gave up.

I was laying in some snow that was practically ice from melting/freezing over the last few days.  As phone negotiations took place I could start to feel myself getting cold.  I attempted to raise my core off the ground for a second when I discovered my jeans were frozen to the ground...  Luckily he came out 5min later.

In other news the Swoop Mitts still kick ass.

Edit to add: it was 13 degrees Fahrenheit

I used to keep one of the cheap green Army poly sleeping pads in my gear for winter use, for exactly this sort of reason

______________________________________________________________________

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если не я тогда, кто?

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Originally Posted by Desert01:
White fleece cap on Amazon will provide lots of choices. Not much in the line of Tacticals, but I would probable get the turtle fur or the Columbia from a quick review of what they had.

Thanks Desert01, I've focused to tactical manufacturers before. I have to look these options too.

- EM1

---

"We would be perfectly happy to leave in three years time without firing one shot." - British defence secretary John Reid about sending British troops into Helmand in April 2006

 

Joined: 4/1/11          Location: Finland

Originally Posted by EM1:
Originally Posted by Desert01:
White fleece cap on Amazon will provide lots of choices. Not much in the line of Tacticals, but I would probable get the turtle fur or the Columbia from a quick review of what they had.

Thanks Desert01, I've focused to tactical manufacturers before. I have to look these options too.

..And Amazon doesn't want to sell those to Finland...Wow! ITAR regulations must have tighten lately and applied now to fleece hats too...so the search is still on.

- EM1

---

"We would be perfectly happy to leave in three years time without firing one shot." - British defence secretary John Reid about sending British troops into Helmand in April 2006

 

Joined: 4/1/11          Location: Finland

Originally Posted by Benito:

Yeah, I'm on the lookout for some overshoes/overboots.

I know the Neos have a good reputation. I am curious about there New Blaance overshoew, but I see zero in the way of feedback. They're not even listed on New Balance's websites. I only see them on Amazon and some random websites.

http://www.harrysarmysurplus.n...itary-over-boot.html

http://gearx.com/new-balance-overboot

http://www.amazon.com/New-Bala...ershoe/dp/B00R5BG4P2

 

They cost half of the Neos. I am wondering if they are as good.

 

 

My New Balance overboots arrived today from Gearx. They are surprisingly heavy. They use the exact same outsole as my Neos Villager overshoes, just in brown. The upper she'll is the same stuff the ECWCS L7 parka outer shell is made of, with a thin layer of Primaloft. 

I suspect the foot portion up to about 6" from the sole is waterproof and the Cordura is certainly rugged enough but the Primaloft upper seems like it will sponge water and probably get shredded quickly if exposed to any kind of brush or even climbing in and out of vehicles regularly. 

 

 

Due to previous commitments I can't play with them much today and won't have a chance to really use them until Thursday or thereabouts. I can't see myself hiking in them but can totally see a niche for them as an extremely rugged camp bootie over socks or pack  boot liners. Basically winter crocs. They're a third the cost of a pair of NEOS Navigators, and at least half as good. 

Originally Posted by BigFootXJ:
Originally Posted by Benito:

Yeah, I'm on the lookout for some overshoes/overboots.

I know the Neos have a good reputation. I am curious about there New Blaance overshoew, but I see zero in the way of feedback. They're not even listed on New Balance's websites. I only see them on Amazon and some random websites.

http://www.harrysarmysurplus.n...itary-over-boot.html

http://gearx.com/new-balance-overboot

http://www.amazon.com/New-Bala...ershoe/dp/B00R5BG4P2

 

They cost half of the Neos. I am wondering if they are as good.

 

 

My New Balance overboots arrived today from Gearx. They are surprisingly heavy. They use the exact same outsole as my Neos Villager overshoes, just in brown. The upper she'll is the same stuff the ECWCS L7 parka outer shell is made of, with a thin layer of Primaloft. 

I suspect the foot portion up to about 6" from the sole is waterproof and the Cordura is certainly rugged enough but the Primaloft upper seems like it will sponge water and probably get shredded quickly if exposed to any kind of brush or even climbing in and out of vehicles regularly. 

 

 

Due to previous commitments I can't play with them much today and won't have a chance to really use them until Thursday or thereabouts. I can't see myself hiking in them but can totally see a niche for them as an extremely rugged camp bootie over socks or pack  boot liners. Basically winter crocs. They're a third the cost of a pair of NEOS Navigators, and at least half as good. 

Thanks for the quick rundown.

How are the fit of these? They say large is 9.5-11. I.m around an 11. Do you have to fight to get these on or are they generous?

Canada

Member since 2003

I'm a 9.5-10 in winter and have about an extra inch and a half around my daily boots, which are 10w Rocky duty boots. 

 

I dont think these are as suitable for walking as NEOS. Theyre definitely intended to be similar to the above mentioned "foot bags". If you'll be walking in them, I'd say go as snug as possible, otherwise go a size up and stuff a hand warmer packet in the toe for extra toasty goodness while standing around. 

Originally Posted by BigFootXJ:
I suspect the foot portion up to about 6" from the sole is waterproof and the Cordura is certainly rugged enough but the Primaloft upper seems like it will sponge water and probably get shredded quickly if exposed to any kind of brush or even climbing in and out of vehicles regularly. 

Spent most of the day and into the night in the New Balance overboots. I wore them with my Keen boots, waterproof, but not insulated and light cotton socks. Weather was in the 20's down to 18 after dark. Probably outside for a total of 7 hours.

 

I wore the upper section under my gortex pants which would protect them from any issues with both moisture and being shredded from contact. The pants went down to the cordura bottom section. I think there was some build up of snow between the overboots and pants and I found sections of the cordura in the over lap damp when I removed them at the end of the day. Over the long haul I think the waterproof aspect of the cordura may not hold up.

 

The insulation is hung separately inside the boot. and is poncho liner like on the upper boot and inside. I have some reservations about how that will hold up long haul with a broad range of combat boots, any sort of hooks are a no go. The fastening system is simple and cinched the boot down tight. There was some room beyond my toe in the boot, but it never bothered me.

 

Most of the day was spent in 24" of snow with no issues with water getting inside to my boot. I ended my day on the MSR "Assault Snowshoes". I was somewhat concerned that they would not be able to adjust to the size 13's Keens and the New Balance, but they fit no issue. All in all a good outing. Not sure of this is a full fledged endorsement, but they are working.

 

Would have liked to see them with more waterproof material like Arctic 1's Will see how these hold up the rest of the winter since it shows no sign of ending soon.

 

 

Repeating what's already been stated by many, but this thread is outstanding.

In the time since this thread was started, have there been any changes in the following areas?:

-Water bladders/systems.  Anything new to make them more viable in winter conditions?  Weather permitting, I carry a Source bladder and a collapsible bottle (Platypus), because I'm not a fan of the wasted space used up by empty  Nalgenes.  The bladder hose is insulated, but that only goes so far.

-Gore-Tex boots.  I love me my Salomons, but once soaked for hours in snow, they take awhile to dry out.  Short of a complete overboot, what's a good option now in the absence of a reliable place to heat up/dry out the boots in the field?

-Any thoughts on water proof compression bags?  I'm looking at getting one from Outdoor Research for an extra pair of socks, another base layer, extra compressible jacket and a Snugpak 0 degree bag.  What size should I be looking at?  I don't have any stores around where I could look at them, so internet is my only option.

 

Thanks in advance,

Pat

Pat,

RE boots.

I did a long deep dive last year into that issue and dealt with several in industry and at Natick about it. The general consensus was that there was not a COTS boot on the self that meet all the talking points. There were some interesting concepts out there, but nothing that was there yet.

I want to try out the Arcteryx  Bora2 boots as it's the most promising concept in my mind.

http://www.arcteryx.com/produc...-Leather-Hiking-Boot

Coupled with the interchange insulated liners.

 

i have been using the Nike Mountain Combat boots for about a year which also use a similar liner. They are not insulated or waterproof, but I like them enough to say the concept is sound, although I don't think I would deploy with the Nikes .

http://www.nikeblog.com/2015/0...spired-world-war-ii/

 

 

 

 

 

Pat_E posted:
-Any thoughts on water proof compression bags?  I'm looking at getting one from Outdoor Research for an extra pair of socks, another base layer, extra compressible jacket and a Snugpak 0 degree bag.  What size should I be looking at?  I don't have any stores around where I could look at them, so internet is my only option.

I have some from Ortleib and some from Sea to Summit (?). The Ortleib ones have a valve which is real handy in terms of compressing your clothing and removing all the air, which especially in a lot of winter gear can mean some significant volume. I think I have 3 13Ls, 1 20/22L and a huge 35-40L- the 13s I use one for my heavy down jacket alone and the other one for baselayers and socks. I do think I could fit it all into a 13 but I haven't tried and can't test it out for you right now. The larger ones go in my bag.

I absolutely recommend compression bags, and I'm really happy with the Ortleib ones but most bags that are waterproof do the trick.

Here in Utah we are seeing greater use of the NEOS Adventurer overshoe system in a dual role-function: impermeable overboot, and mountain-snowshoeing overboot.

I liked it so much I bought a pair of the NEOS for myself, and my princess wife bought me a set of the Fimbulvetr Hikr Snowshoes for Christmas:

 

I will be going on a hike Christmas day in them both to try out.

~Will

 




 

 

   Anybody can blow something up, but to disarm anothers bomb, this is when talent, skill, bravery & LUCK will all determine "Success or Failure".  

 

Location: UTAH              Joined: 2003

essal posted:
Pat_E posted:
-Any thoughts on water proof compression bags?  I'm looking at getting one from Outdoor Research for an extra pair of socks, another base layer, extra compressible jacket and a Snugpak 0 degree bag.  What size should I be looking at?  I don't have any stores around where I could look at them, so internet is my only option.

I have some from Ortleib and some from Sea to Summit (?). The Ortleib ones have a valve which is real handy in terms of compressing your clothing and removing all the air, which especially in a lot of winter gear can mean some significant volume. I think I have 3 13Ls, 1 20/22L and a huge 35-40L- the 13s I use one for my heavy down jacket alone and the other one for baselayers and socks. I do think I could fit it all into a 13 but I haven't tried and can't test it out for you right now. The larger ones go in my bag.

I absolutely recommend compression bags, and I'm really happy with the Ortleib ones but most bags that are waterproof do the trick.

I have a couple of the 35L Outdoor Research dry bags, and they are amazing pieces of kit.  Lightweight, waterproof, easy enough to purge the air in the bag.  I have one I use for my clothes and one I use for my sleeping bag.  The 35L is perfect for my snugpak special forces 2 piece sleep system, bivy bag, and a poncho liner, and the other one fits all my clothes and extra cold weather gear as needed (wind/snow pants, Mukluk liners, puffy jacket, etc).  during river crossings and such you can keep the air in the bag and seal it off as a makeshift flotation device as well.

 

I also love the Neos overboots.  I have a set of the adventurer for wet muddy conditions, and a set of the Navigator 5's with the stabilicers for use in winter.  I haven't had a problem going down to -30C with the navigators, and they provide better ankle support than our issued cold weather mukluks.  they also have the stabilicers (removable metal screws) on the sole that greatly increase traction on icy patches.    

RIP Sgt. George Miok, Sgt. Kirk Taylor, Cpl. Zach Mccormack, Pte. Garrett Chidley 30-Dec-2009 Cpl. Joshua Baker 12-Feb-2010 TF3-09 KPRT

Great info as usual, thanks guys.

Looks like the boot story is evolving, and not completely resolved yet.  I'm looking hard at OR dry compression sacks for my sleeping bag, extra socks, snivel gear, etc.  I'd rather just get it all into one or two larger bags instead of separating it out.

Keep the knowledge coming.

Pat

I did two tours in Argentine Marines' mountain unit (BIM4) in Ushuaia.

In winter it's wet cold at low altitudes and valleys, and really fucking cold in high altitude or glaciers. Anyway we go around in boats and fast craft so you get wet.

The low areas are full of small streams, ponds and PEAT. Peat is mushy and wet in summer, and slippery and hard as a rock in winter. A pain in the ass all year round.

In summer and when it's not that cold, we work in a "wet uniform", you just go around fording and you suck it. Then when you stop in patrol bases, you switch to dry clothes. When it's time to move, you get into the wet uniform again. Itreally sucks, but otherwise you'd have to take a ton of clothes. 

Most of the time, the wet uniform is normally composed of polypro underwear and goretex pant and jacket.  No cotton. But it's kind of noisy, and for close action you have to swich to the regular uniform. 

 

 

In winter or up high, we use issued Scarpa Invernos technical boots. They are surprisingly comfortable and multipurpose! You can walk on normal terrain in the forest and forget you are wearing a plastic boot. 

They are crampon compatible, and in a pinch you can attach them to Diamir ski bindings.

Scarpas. Miartini for scale.

Scarpas. Martini for scale.

 

Waterproof bags: A must for us. Maybe it's a marine thing, but everything goes waterproofed, even our IFAKs. You see a mix of sea to summit's, OR and homemade. Guys also line the inside of backpacks with big dog food bags. You also see those luggage compression bags, wich are kind of a ziploc with steroids.

Boots:

I tried and didn't like at all the Bates Tora Boras. Heavy and uncomfortable. Most guys use any COTS they fancy. Uniformity is not an issue even in the barracks. Boreals are very popular. Gaiters are a must, and in deep snowy terrain we learnt from the local alpine club to wear them over the boots and under the pants, which works great. 

Water Bladder: Here in winter water gets frozen, period. Most guys carry those aluminum small flasks that never gets frozen, but it's kinda heavy and expensive. It fits inside the jacket. When we are going with light assault packs, we fit our issued camelbaks inside our jackets to keep water liquid.

 

Overall, although going around wet seems like a no go, I've never seen an issue (besides the pain of  going from the warmth of your bag to the morning cold and into  wet clothes and boots). Only evacs or cold related injuries have been up high in glaciers with bad weather.

We haven't yet found a good solution on ski gear, at least for our terrain and needs. I've been following Lightfighter threand on this issue with a lot of interest. 

"Gaiters are a must, and in deep snowy terrain we learnt from the local alpine club to wear them over the boots and under the pants, which works great."

HK3172, I always wear my gaiters over my boots, but are you wearing them under hard shell or uniform pants?   Any issues with moisture migrating up the legs on non-hard shell pants?

Pat

Pat_E posted:

"Gaiters are a must, and in deep snowy terrain we learnt from the local alpine club to wear them over the boots and under the pants, which works great."

HK3172, I always wear my gaiters over my boots, but are you wearing them under hard shell or uniform pants?   Any issues with moisture migrating up the legs on non-hard shell pants?

Pat

When over snow, I skip non hardshells.

It s counterintuitive, but when snow is deep, gaiters work better under the pant. Give it a try! It works like snow traps in civvy snowpants

Mountain guides wear it that way over here.

Sometimes we march through valleys by following streams ("picadas"). If I know I ll be getting into the water many times, I can wear only briefs and hardshell pant. Doesn t soak up so much water. 

In this wet cold places, it s impossible to keep dry. You just keep moving or change clothes when you re going to be still for a while. You use the sleeping bag as blanket a lot also.

hk3172 posted:
Pat_E posted:

"Gaiters are a must, and in deep snowy terrain we learnt from the local alpine club to wear them over the boots and under the pants, which works great."

HK3172, I always wear my gaiters over my boots, but are you wearing them under hard shell or uniform pants?   Any issues with moisture migrating up the legs on non-hard shell pants?

Pat

When over snow, I skip non hardshells.

It s counterintuitive, but when snow is deep, gaiters work better under the pant. Give it a try! It works like snow traps in civvy snowpants

Mountain guides wear it that way over here.

Sometimes we march through valleys by following streams ("picadas"). If I know I ll be getting into the water many times, I can wear only briefs and hardshell pant. Doesn t soak up so much water. 

In this wet cold places, it s impossible to keep dry. You just keep moving or change clothes when you re going to be still for a while. You use the sleeping bag as blanket a lot also.

I've read a lot about the experience of the Falklands War and can only imagine the misery of the infantrymen, dealing with the cold and wet, day after day and only being able to look forward to getting into a sleeping bag for a few hours of rest.

--------
...with liberty and justice FOR ALL.  

 

Mad respect for Brando and the perseverance in his current fight.

hk3172 posted:

I did two tours in Argentine Marines' mountain unit (BIM4) in Ushuaia.

In winter it's wet cold at low altitudes and valleys, and really fucking cold in high altitude or glaciers. Anyway we go around in boats and fast craft so you get wet.

The low areas are full of small streams, ponds and PEAT. Peat is mushy and wet in summer, and slippery and hard as a rock in winter. A pain in the ass all year round.

In summer and when it's not that cold, we work in a "wet uniform", you just go around fording and you suck it. Then when you stop in patrol bases, you switch to dry clothes. When it's time to move, you get into the wet uniform again. Itreally sucks, but otherwise you'd have to take a ton of clothes. 

Most of the time, the wet uniform is normally composed of polypro underwear and goretex pant and jacket.  No cotton. But it's kind of noisy, and for close action you have to swich to the regular uniform. 

 

 

In winter or up high, we use issued Scarpa Invernos technical boots. They are surprisingly comfortable and multipurpose! You can walk on normal terrain in the forest and forget you are wearing a plastic boot. 

They are crampon compatible, and in a pinch you can attach them to Diamir ski bindings.

Scarpas. Miartini for scale.

Scarpas. Martini for scale.

 

Waterproof bags: A must for us. Maybe it's a marine thing, but everything goes waterproofed, even our IFAKs. You see a mix of sea to summit's, OR and homemade. Guys also line the inside of backpacks with big dog food bags. You also see those luggage compression bags, wich are kind of a ziploc with steroids.

Boots:

I tried and didn't like at all the Bates Tora Boras. Heavy and uncomfortable. Most guys use any COTS they fancy. Uniformity is not an issue even in the barracks. Boreals are very popular. Gaiters are a must, and in deep snowy terrain we learnt from the local alpine club to wear them over the boots and under the pants, which works great. 

Water Bladder: Here in winter water gets frozen, period. Most guys carry those aluminum small flasks that never gets frozen, but it's kinda heavy and expensive. It fits inside the jacket. When we are going with light assault packs, we fit our issued camelbaks inside our jackets to keep water liquid.

 

Overall, although going around wet seems like a no go, I've never seen an issue (besides the pain of  going from the warmth of your bag to the morning cold and into  wet clothes and boots). Only evacs or cold related injuries have been up high in glaciers with bad weather.

We haven't yet found a good solution on ski gear, at least for our terrain and needs. I've been following Lightfighter threand on this issue with a lot of interest. 

May be a bit on comfortable and seem counterintuitive, but if you wear your standard (50/50 ripstop) uniform over the goretex it will silence the 'potato chip bag' noise the wet weather uniform usually makes.

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