CCW Choices

I live in SoCal but fortunately exempt from 10 rnd mags.  Most days Im in shorts and T-shirts.  I carry a G19 AIWB with a spare Magpul G-mag either in front left pocket w a TQ or the mag is OWB at 8 o'clock position.  I also most often through in a G26 in front pocket, but the load gets to me at the end of a long day.  Of course a sharp stabby tool is somewhere on my person

Considering downsizing to the G43, just have not committed yet.

Trunk, I would definitely recommend shooting the 43 before you buy, if you haven’t already. I’ve gotten the impression that people who are used to the G26 sometimes don’t care for the feel of the 43, or don’t see the point of the reduced capacity in a package that’s only slightly thinner.

Although I love my 43, I’m considering getting a 26 because of the convenience of being able to use common (G17 and 19) magazines. I shot a 26 about ten years ago and didn’t care for it st the time, but the mag extensions that are available now along with the PMAG 12 make it more appealing. Unfortunately the local range doesn’t have one for rent, despite having about 50 otheir pistols available.

IF you get a chance to get hands on a PPS M2 when you're loooking at  the G43 and Shield, definitely give the Walther a try. I LOVE the ergonomics and trigger.

Joined: 30 May 2003                  Location: SE PA

jcustisredux posted:

"I just bought a HK VP9sk. Awesome pistol. If it had an external safety, I would swap it for the Shield although it might be an issue for front pocket carry. "

I've seen a lot of comments about it being a tack driver.  Does it really point that well and balance out the trigger and recoil elements?

Yes Sir, it is a tack driver for sure.  I’m obviously not a big striker fired pistol guy but I have used a ton of customized Glocks for target shooting and to me, the HK VP series has one of the nicest triggers period, let alone striker fired.  I have heard great things about the Walther but have never used one.

You can customize the shit out of the VP9sk grip.  Once you get it dialed in for yourself, it points very well.  As to recoil, the only ammo I have in quantity is Win. Ranger 124gr +p+.  It will never break the pistol but it is snappy for sure.  With the trend for short barreled pistols being going to heavier, normal pressure rounds,  I’m sure the recoil would be quite manageable.

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IT'S A COLT.  THEY'RE LIKE THE HK OF GUNS.

  

The Most Reverend Consig

 

 

 

 

 

 

Joined: 28 Nov 2004: 0037hrs        Location: The worst run state in the U.S

The 1911 is the Commander size, 4 1/4" barrel with a bobtail Scandium frame.  It is light, the countours make it thinner to carry, and the rounded butt prints less than the G19.  And it has a great trigger.

 

Dorsai, can you tell me some more about your S & W 1911? I'm not a 1911 guy at all ( I have a Browning HP in the safe, and that's it for me with SA semi autos), but your post sent me down the Internet rabbit hole of looking at reviews and videos. 

I've been thinking of selling my P7 ( I know , I know, sacrilegious thought isn't it?) and the Smith looks very good to me. I'm interested in  the shoot-ability of yours,  how it's been holding up to everyday carry, and maybe a size comparison to the G19.

I specialize in Bird Law...

Regarding the G43, Kyle Defoor has been posting results he is getting with one, which are quite good.  Only mod is his sights.

 With a +2 mag extension, that's capacity equal to a 1911 in a gun that's way more reliable, easier to CCW, won't rust, etc.  

 

One minor addition; I've been shooting and carrying the Dan Wesson Valkyrie in 45 ACP since February.  It has been really good.  Reliable, accurate, with a great trigger.  Carried in a JM Custom "George" AIWB holster, it disappears on me (6' 4", 210 #).  It replaced the G19 I had been carrying but got tired of brass to the face!

My point is that holsters make or break what can be carried easily or not.

JTO

Southern Oregon, the redneck part...

Joined 2/28/11

caldws posted:
The 1911 is the Commander size, 4 1/4" barrel with a bobtail Scandium frame.  It is light, the countours make it thinner to carry, and the rounded butt prints less than the G19.  And it has a great trigger.

 

Dorsai, can you tell me some more about your S & W 1911? I'm not a 1911 guy at all ( I have a Browning HP in the safe, and that's it for me with SA semi autos), but your post sent me down the Internet rabbit hole of looking at reviews and videos. 

I've been thinking of selling my P7 ( I know , I know, sacrilegious thought isn't it?) and the Smith looks very good to me. I'm interested in  the shoot-ability of yours,  how it's been holding up to everyday carry, and maybe a size comparison to the G19.

http://www.smith-wesson.com/fi...-butt-scandium-frame

-------------------------

Mark

Swear allegiance to the flag Whatever flag they offer

Never hint at what you really feel

Teach the children quietly For some day sons and daughters

Will rise up and fight while we stood still

 

Joined:  2/24/2003                          Location:  Nevada, USA

Dorsai posted:
caldws posted:
The 1911 is the Commander size, 4 1/4" barrel with a bobtail Scandium frame.  It is light, the countours make it thinner to carry, and the rounded butt prints less than the G19.  And it has a great trigger.

 

Dorsai, can you tell me some more about your S & W 1911? I'm not a 1911 guy at all ( I have a Browning HP in the safe, and that's it for me with SA semi autos), but your post sent me down the Internet rabbit hole of looking at reviews and videos. 

I've been thinking of selling my P7 ( I know , I know, sacrilegious thought isn't it?) and the Smith looks very good to me. I'm interested in  the shoot-ability of yours,  how it's been holding up to everyday carry, and maybe a size comparison to the G19.

http://www.smith-wesson.com/fi...-butt-scandium-frame

And this - http://www.smith-wesson.com/fi...ms/sw1911ta-e-series - is my main concealed carry. As long as as I have a belt on and a untucked shirt, I can have it in a Milt Sparks VM2 and not have an issue with comfort or concealability. 442 for all other circumstances.

---------------------------------

It's not that life is so short, it's that you're dead for so long.

The .45-70 is the only government I trust

"I was raised in a place called America...
It's gone now, I wish you could've seen it"
- Moustache_6 quoting a WWII vet

 

Joined: 1/30/06 3:34 PM - Location:MA

Both of those Smiths are nice but if I ever went back to .45 ACP I think I’d get a Compact ES or maybe the Dan Wesson CCO. Something about the Officers ACP frame size just fits my hand exceptionally well and I’ve always liked the Commander slide size. 

Mojo/Mark
__________________________
Yo homey, is that my briefcase...?
Vincent from "Collateral"
__________________________
You want the good life, you break your back, you snap your fingers, you snap your neck... Prong/Demon Hunter

Joined: 9/30/09
Location: Northern Nevada (Reno/Sparks)

caldws posted:

IIRC, DW is covered under the CZ LEO program and I've got to admit, a commander sized 1911 would be nice to have for trips to California and Nevada and such...

Please don’t lump Nevada into the same category as California. We haven’t gone that far down the rabbit hole, yet.

Mojo/Mark
__________________________
Yo homey, is that my briefcase...?
Vincent from "Collateral"
__________________________
You want the good life, you break your back, you snap your fingers, you snap your neck... Prong/Demon Hunter

Joined: 9/30/09
Location: Northern Nevada (Reno/Sparks)

Consigliere posted:
jcustisredux posted:

"I just bought a HK VP9sk. Awesome pistol. If it had an external safety, I would swap it for the Shield although it might be an issue for front pocket carry. "

I've seen a lot of comments about it being a tack driver.  Does it really point that well and balance out the trigger and recoil elements?

I have used a ton of customized Glocks for target shooting ... 

I could have sworn I just saw an older string in which you claim that Glocks cause AIDS. Is that why you have been quieter lately?

- - - -
Never be biased. Get to know people, and then hate them for objective reasons. They will almost always give you plenty.

www.routledge.com/9781138302945 (note: LIVE LINK)

Doug Mitchell posted:
Consigliere posted:
jcustisredux posted:

"I just bought a HK VP9sk. Awesome pistol. If it had an external safety, I would swap it for the Shield although it might be an issue for front pocket carry. "

I've seen a lot of comments about it being a tack driver.  Does it really point that well and balance out the trigger and recoil elements?

I have used a ton of customized Glocks for target shooting ... 

I could have sworn I just saw an older string in which you claim that Glocks cause AIDS. Is that why you have been quieter lately?

Ownership of them and using them to defend ones self certainly does.  Using them for target shooting does not if proper protection is used.  I never Glock without a rubber.  But thank you for your concern.

-------------------------

IT'S A COLT.  THEY'RE LIKE THE HK OF GUNS.

  

The Most Reverend Consig

 

 

 

 

 

 

Joined: 28 Nov 2004: 0037hrs        Location: The worst run state in the U.S

SFF posted:
that's capacity equal to a 1911 in a gun that's way more reliable

 

Nearly all 1911's today are built to different specifications than the original USGI model, the level of quality and durability can vary wildly.  In testing done by the US Army in the 1970's with "new" 1911a1's they averaged 6,000 MRBS, in testing done by the AirForce with wornout magazines and older pistols with questionable replacement parts in them the MRBS was only 748... IIRC the first two batches of M45a1's MARSOC pistol submitted by Colt for testing had and average 4,000 MRBS.

TLG did an extended test with a Springfield Armory 1911 pistol chambered in 9mm, after changing out the low-quality recoil spring and using high quality magazines he fired 37,266 rounds with only 6 stoppages (6,211 MRBS).  That level of reliability in his testing exceeded the Glock 17 Gen4 (8 stoppages in as many rounds fired) or the HK P30 (7 stoppages in as many rounds fired).

The 1911 may require more preventive maintenance and parts replacement/tuning than other options, but it's by no means an invalid choice for a personal defense or duty weapon.  Just about any 1911 of decent or higher quality can be expected to run reliably with the right springs, ammo, and magazines.


As far as I know, no agency or individual has done any extensive/extended testing on the Glock43 in order to ascertain a MRBS number.  Given the lack of available data I'd say it's quite a bold and ridiculous statement to declare that the Glock43 is "way more reliable" unless you're comparing the G43 to out worn out 1911's or low quality ones with quality control issues... but that's just me 
   ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

 

I don't want to derail this thread into a 1911 v. Glock thread.

I am no stranger to 1911s.

Bought my first 1911 in 1991 (Delta Elite) and have owned more than 20 of them including Colt, Baer, Springfield, Wilson, Nighthawk, Yost-Bonitz, STI, SVI, Bedell Custom, and also a Heinie full custom.  They have a warm place in my little black heart.  

Carried 1911s CCW for many years.  Used 1911s in USMC 1993-1994 until we switched to the M9.

Carried a O'Hara custom built 1911 for my duty gun, and later on a Nighthawk Vickers.  I put over 20,000 rounds through the OHC, and 14,000 rounds through the NHC. 

Been through the Colt 1911 armorer course taught by Ken Elmore. 

Shot IPSC regularly for several years and the intermittently.  Made A class in Open and Limited before I stopped.  Lots of 1911s used, lots of them didn't have extreme round counts, saw lots of broken guns.  

Maintained about 10 1911s (Colt, Kimber, Para, Springfield) by users at my agency, in addition to my personal guns.   So many problems, where to begin?  Magazines that wouldn't feed JHP, extractors that wouldn't hold tension resulting in FTE's, broken thumb safeties, broken barrel bushings, corrosion, peened firing pins, broken extractors.  It was real fun getting those guns to run and keep them running.  

Have seen more 1911s from all kinds of makers choke more times than I can count. 

You got one that works, great.  Rock on.  

I choose to not carry them any longer.  I would maybe reconsider that if forced to use 10 rounds and under.  But only in a 5" size since the shorter guns have reduced time for the cycle of operation to occur and are even harder to shoot.  

Recently I did a little comparison between a G17, G19, Colt Gunsite Pistol, and Colt Lightweight Commander, shooting "The Test".   The Glocks were substantially easier to shoot better than the 1911s, especially the LWC.  I routinely score 95+ shooting that drill cold with the Glocks, but didn't do nearly so well with the 1911s.  

For a CCW gun, I used to feel well armed with a 1911.

Then one day I ran into a guy (who had threatened to kill me) and his friend while off duty while at the grocery store with my SO at the time, and had to break leather.  Didn't have to engage them because they fled.  But it got me thinking about the importance of capacity . . . 

I feel much better armed with a G17 (duty) and G19 (off duty).

If you have to carry a 8 round gun, a G43 has the same capacity as a 1911, and from what I've personally seen, more reliability.   I've seen nary a problem from the dozen or so G43s that our guys have in use and they are easy to carry and shoot well.  

YMMV

 

FWIW:

I've carried a G23 off-duty going on 12 years.  I dropped a bunch of weight and decided that I wanted to dress a little more fashionable so I went to a S&W Bodyguard.  Big mistake...had a suspicious vehicle following me one evening and I did not get a warm and fuzzy pulling a 380 out of my pocket.  I switched to a S&W Shield for a number of years and transitioned to a G43 this year as my agency requires an 8lb trigger.  That being said:

I carry the G43 almost exclusively now.  Carried appendix with a spare magazine it gives me a decent amount of ammo to handle what I need to handle.  It also fits my hand extremely well with some rubberized grip tape, so much that I don't have to adjust my grip to a smaller gun like I used to with a .380 or a 1911 when I carried one for a short time.  Additionally, because it is so light I can carry it when I used to not carry, such as when in PT gear, dressed up in a sweater at a family event, etc.  It is also doable to be seated for long period carrying this way (driving, movie theater, dinner, etc) and leaves my pockets free for other things like a phone, pokey stabby, flashlight, etc.

The only changes I made were the trigger being upped to 8lbs and the sights being a bright orange front and blacked out rear.  I shot expert with it having never shot my personal G43 before at all and never having shot it from the holster.  It is very simple and intuitive.

?

SFF posted:

I don't want to derail this thread into a 1911 v. Glock thread.

I doubt there is anyone here that wants to see that horse get beat again.  I'm was simply pointing out that your statement that the Glock43 is "way more reliable"  is an intellectually indefensible claim.  At least until such a time occurs that there are MRBS tests available that can either outright prove or at least show support for your claim.  Oh and by the way, regarding your earlier comment that a G43 won't rust;
Last time I checked Glock's are not immune to oxidation, at least no here on Earth.  So please put your cup down and back away from the punch-bowl, you've clearly drank way too much Glock-Koolaid 

There are plenty of legitimate reasons for someone to select a G43 over any particular version of the 1911, which is why your false/misleading statements were unnecessary and deserving of scrutiny... hopefully you don't think I'm just trying to piss in your cornflakes because that's not the case here.

SFF posted:

I am no stranger to 1911s...
[Bunch of  stuff deleted from quote for brevity]
...Have seen more 1911s from all kinds of makers choke more times than I can count.

Understood, however there have been multiple federal dept./agency and non-federal agency tests performed to ascertain the 'Mean Rounds Between Stoppage' on a 1911/1911 pattern pistol. Although each test had slightly differing results, the overall MRBS ranged from 3,500-to-6,000 rounds.  There was also that testing done by the late Todd Louis Green on, his results fall in line with "official" testing.  So aside from the 1977 Airforce test (which was on old worn out pistols with worn out magazines), there hasn't been any testing data that supports your insinuation that the 1911/1911a1 has inherent reliability issues.       empirical evidence > anecdotal evidence

Look I don't believe nor am I trying to say that the 1911 is the most reliable handgun, because I know that's not the case.  There are handguns offered today that are objectively more reliable, and subjectively better designed.  The 1911 is an obsolescent firearm but it's certainly not obsolete, regardless of individual feelings to the contrary it still remains a viable option for duty or defensive carry to this day.

SFF posted:
You got one that works, great.  Rock on. 
Sadly that's no longer the case, I don't have any 1911's in my current inventory/collection.  Hell I hardly have any guns left at all these days, but now I digress

SFF posted:
...a G43 has the same capacity as a 1911...

I know several folks talked about .45acp 1911's, but the 1911's originally mentioned in this thread were of the 9mm variety as the "OP" for this thread clearly asked for only 9mm recommendations.  So if we focus only on the 9mm versions, the Commander & Fullsize are 10+1, and the Officer & CCO sizes are either 8+1 or 7+1 with a bobbed grip and flush fit mag.

Which option is best is highly subjective, and there isn't really a right or wrong answer.

The G43s we have in use are providing stellar service, are well liked, very shootable, carry and conceal well, and not a single stoppage thus far.  That's with ball, Winchester Ranger 9mm 147 grn, and Speed GD 9mm 147 grn.  I estimate 5, 000 rounds fired through them in aggregate.

PM sent to Moustache_6.

Judero posted:

I bought a Glock 43 and wasn’t really excited about it. I now have this overwhelming urge to buy a Walther PPS M2. Whatcha think?

Yes, Fuck yes, brother.  While you're at it, pick up a PPQ M2 Navy.

Joined: 30 May 2003                  Location: SE PA

I am in a position where I can not be seen carrying,  but still need to carry, so size and concealability have to take precedence over firepower. I spend the majority of my time between the courthouse and government admin building  (not in the jail or courtrooms), talking with and working with constituents. We also adopted several kids whose parents are third generation dirtbags, one recently out of prison, the other recently approved for parole. Even though we are in totally different parts of the state, we have enough acquaintances in common that the very closed adoption is really just a temporary wall that we won't  know when it falls due to a slip of the tongue, or someone putting two and two together. 

I carry the biggest I can get away with for the day/activity.  That is usually a Kahr CM9. I practice regularly, and it is as easy to control as it is to carry. It is smaller than the 43, has an amazing trigger, has never had a hiccup, and with high quality ammo and a reload at least gives me a start. This is also the minimum carry on meeting days.

When that is too big, an LCP with a pocket clip disappears under my belt. A slightly bloused shirt will hide it. Again, practice, good ammo, and a reload. (Tested the Liberty Civil Defense during an ammo test day at the range, and from the LCP through 2 layers of denim still went over 10 inches in the ballistic jello. Plus the reduced recoil adds to the controlability.)

As fall/winter moves in, my M&P9c sees more carry time, as well as whenever I go to the capital or Walmart. I am less concerned about printing there, and have more clothing that can cover. If I didnt have to worry about getting id'd as carrying, this would be the one I'd carry all the time. It has good capacity, excellent controlability,  and my reload is a full size mag with adapter, which if the fight goes that long, effectively turns it into a full size gun. I traded my Shield for it, and got a lot more rounds for my quarter inch increase in thickness, a good trade for me. If I ever got rid of the CM9, though, it would probably be for a Shield.

I realize my two most carried guns are on the edge of too small, but where I carry them I also have deputies not too far away, so hopefully wouldn't be going too long without help being on the way. I know, hope is not a strategy, but sometimes it's the best you've got in a given situation. 

 

 

 

 

I'm with alot of folks here and a NPE at work.  Work carry is a G43 with a reload in the pocket (BFG pouch mounted to a RCS pocket shield).  Have a Emerson clipped inside my cargo pocket strong side and weak side a TDI reverse curve.  Outside of work a full size MP9 with a XC1 appendix and 2x spare 20 round mags, TDI is still there and my G43 goes weak side pocket.

I carry a Kahr CW9 when I'm working out, swimming or going places where I absolutely cannot print or be found (short of a cavity search and metal detectors) in a holster I made myself that also carries two 8rnd magazines. It carries the gun AIWB with the magazines on my left side .

For every other day I'm carrying my G19 WITH an X300u in an Armadillo Concealment X-fer holster and 2 G17 reloads.

Before this current set up I was packing a G17with the same light and the grip cut to take G19 magazines.

I'm 6' 1" and just under 200# and approaching old...

The Kahr has worked flawlessly the 6 or so times I've had to use it (I live in the country and a-holes seem to think it is ok to abandon their now ferrel dogs out here) never had a malfunction but I do also replace the recoil spring every 2,000 rnds. I also dehorned and melted my Kahr as the lack of finish machining on the my lower priced model left edges sharp enough to rub holes in my clothes. The trigger on it is like a really good double action pistol and I can make hits reliably out to 75-100yds and ring the steel. Although out of the short barrel on the Kahr the 9mm pills probably have as much lethality as a marble out of a slingshot.

The only reason I don't carry the Kahr more is the ammo capacity and the lack of a WML.

Location: in SE Idaho, the birthplace of television. 

So, after much discussion and research. And after spending some time shooting all of the small 9MM pistols I could get my hands on, I acquired a S&W 9MM Shield 2.0 today. 

Now, time to stock up on 9MM ammo and spend some time at the range. 

Thank you to everyone for your input!

86Bear posted:

So, after much discussion and research. And after spending some time shooting all of the small 9MM pistols I could get my hands on, I acquired a S&W 9MM Shield 2.0 today. 

Now, time to stock up on 9MM ammo and spend some time at the range. 

Thank you to everyone for your input!

So can we expect to see a followup post here after you have sev. hundred rds. down range thru that Shield?

Joined: 3.28.09            

Location: NETX

    My off duty EDC consists of a G19 w/ minor stippling and KD4 sights, riding in a raven concealment eidelon. Front right pocket is an Emerson CQC-8. I have also began implementing a SOF-T wide TQ in a flatpack carrier by I think PHlster? Clothes are usually kuhl pants and either a polo or T-shirt. This is not exactly comfortable, but it is comforting. If I carry for work replace the RCS with a G-code XST, and add at least one reload, then pretty much everything else is the same. Occasionally I will carry a shield in a NSR tactical appendix rig.

    In regards to the shield vs G43, I tell people if you are on a tighter budget get the shield. The sights and capacity are better from the factory than the micro Glock. However, if you are willing to dump some money into the Glock, than do that. Specifically in getting better sights, and some mag extensions.

SSgt Strong

Glock Armorer

68WhiskeyNCoke posted:

I’d love to hear more on that new 2.0 Shield. A buddy of mine recently picked up a “performance center” shield with the ported barrel etc and I was really impressed.  So much so I’m about to skip my long desired g43 for the 2.0.   

Agreed 68WNCoke, hopefully he’ll be back sooner vs. later  w/ that feedback.

Joined: 3.28.09            

Location: NETX

For now and the foreseeable future, I'm a column B guy. Carry a mid-size 9mm with a light on it, spare mag, etc. 

To steal John's line, one time I seriously thought I was going to be in 4 felon fight I was carrying a 1 suspect gun (caliber / capacity). With that and other life concerns, I'm not yet willing to shift over to column A about 97% of the time. 

I don't have the 2.0 Shield, but one thing I noticed with the 2.0 Compact (and had anticipated).  The stippling is very aggressive.  At first, I thought it too aggressive, but I've become used to it.  I stippled my 1.0 guns and they feel good, but I have to say, I've grown to like the 2.0 even better.  Except for one thing.  Did you know the palms of your hands have an additional layer of skin to make them tougher?  Well, your side doesn't.  My concealed carry guns go under a shirt and except when it is pretty chilly in the winter, I don't wear a T-shirt underneath.  Too hot.  Putting that stippled gun up against side skin and then moving, is like inviting someone to aggressively sand the soft, fleshy parts of your body.  Not good at all.

So, I took some sandpaper and carefully reduced the texture on the left side of the grip where it contacts the skin.  Problem solved.  Your shooting palm wraps around the other, unsanded side, the fingers grasp the unsanded front  strap and the heel is against the unsanded back strap.  So I don't find any reduction in the secure grip.  Keep it in mind.

-------------------------

Mark

Swear allegiance to the flag Whatever flag they offer

Never hint at what you really feel

Teach the children quietly For some day sons and daughters

Will rise up and fight while we stood still

 

Joined:  2/24/2003                          Location:  Nevada, USA

Dorsai,

I will definitely keep that tip in mind and was already thinking about that issue. I will say, though, that the Shield 2.0 doesn’t feel near as aggressive as the 2.0 Compact.   Once I acquire an IWB holster and start carrying it, I’ll get a better feel for what I need to do. Of course, that’ll be after I trust it enough to carry it. 

Cannot remember who, but in the early Glock custom texturing days someone kept getting customers selecting super aggressive texture, then complaining it was too much.

So he started including a little square of sandpaper in the box and instructions to just knock it back if it's too much.

The things that will destroy America are prosperity at any price, peace at any price, safety first instead of duty first, the love of soft living and the get rich quick theory of life. – Theodore Roosevelt

 

Joined: 19NOV2004   Location: Mission, Kansas

shoobe01 posted:

Cannot remember who, but in the early Glock custom texturing days someone kept getting customers selecting super aggressive texture, then complaining it was too much.

So he started including a little square of sandpaper in the box and instructions to just knock it back if it's too much.

I remember that on the Simonich / Strider Gunners Grips for 1911s & M9/92Fs too.

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