Glock trigger explanation and thoughts

M4 thanks for taking the time to write this up. Learning has occurred. Gonna print your and give it to our dept. armor.

Matt

"They asked for the death penalty and they got it," he said of the shootout. "That's just the way it is. Court was held on that parking lot."

Correct, the (--) is an lighter trigger than the standard (-), and the Dot is in the Gen 4s as of a few months ago. They (--) you will not see unless you know someone at Glock, and the one in my G35 does not do anything special for me. I prefer the (-) or Dot over it.

You can get Dot connectors from some vendors now or through Glock armorers ordering program.

From lightest to heaviest:
--
-
Dot
Standard
+
Whoops..forgot about the 'Dot' connector. They mentioned it in class but it isn't listed on the current parts list. Thanks Guru!

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -You have never lived until you have almost died. For those who have fought for it , life has a special flavor the protected will never know.

 

You cant look dignified when your having fun!

 

 Location: Georgia

So, the "." connector is basically half way between a standard and "-" connector? If used alone, what are the trigger pulls like on a gen III? I should probably just order one up and find out for myself, but in case anyone has any feedback.

Also, it appears the love was shared over at Gray Group Training: http://community.greygrouptrai...-school.aspx?ref=rss. Good stuff, Klear Above.

- - - - -
"You can only reason with a reasonable person." Pat Rogers

quote:
Originally posted by arnub:
So, the "." connector is basically half way between a standard and "-" connector? If used alone, what are the trigger pulls like on a gen III? I should probably just order one up and find out for myself, but in case anyone has any feedback.


In my Gen II's and Gen III 9mm it feels like a less mushy "-" connector... or in other words, awesome. I never much cared for the "-". I put them in, shot them for a bit, took them out. The mush and the reduced reset snap killed the appeal for me.

The Dot connector went in all of my Glocks (2 gen 2's and a Gen 3 RTF) and is staying. The reset feels just as good, the break is a little lighter, but it's still as "defined" as the standard connector is.
quote:
Originally posted by FedDC:
Isn't there a "Minus Minus" version?


There's supposedly a super-secret true 3 pound connector out there but it's reportedly only available to one specific military unit that's kind of hard to get into. Dunno what Glock refers to it as or if they even acknowledge the existence of such a thing.

Great article, Guru...sure to be referenced often.
quote:
Originally posted by John_Wayne777:
quote:
Originally posted by FedDC:
Isn't there a "Minus Minus" version?


There's supposedly a super-secret true 3 pound connector out there but it's reportedly only available to one specific military unit that's kind of hard to get into. Dunno what Glock refers to it as or if they even acknowledge the existence of such a thing.

Great article, Guru...sure to be referenced often.


My old Glock rep used to tell us not even he was allowed to get his hands on the connector in question.

Glock restricts their "-" connector to competition model guns, or requires department letterhead requesting them for LE guns. That's why they're so expensive to get relative to the other Glock connectors... Glock tries to control the shit out of them.
FWIW: The "-" connector feels pretty good in my Gen4 17, but not so hot in my Gen3 19. I've been told it's the changed trigger bar (?). I installed a Ghost 3.5 in my Gen4 17 and it was awful.

GIs carrying 1911s defeated Axis forces, including Austrians. The 1911 was winning battles and saving lives before Gaston Glock was even born - somewhere along the way we probably figured out a thing or two on combat handguns." –Larry Vickers

Another FWIW,
About a year ago, I put a '-' connector in my 21

The trigger pull was lighter/smoother than the stock connector, but the reset was way longer than the stock connector.

It was something that really screwed me, and my scores up.

After a few hundred rounds, I decided a short reset was more important to me (and my scores) than a light/smooth trigger pull.

Jay
I never really cared for the “-“ connector. I played around with the “.” connector when the Glock rep gave us a few to T&E. If I could I would put a “.” connector in my Glocks, like yesterday. Of course almost anything is better than our policy mandated standard connector with a NY1 spring.

Great write-up Guru!
____________________________________
"It is about basics. The basics of Gunfuckingfighting." Pat Rogers

We, the willing, lead by the unknowing, are doing the impossible for the ungrateful. We have done so much for so long, with so little, We are now qualified to do anything, with nothing.

Joined: April 6, 2007
Location: Maryland
I saw this over at Grey Group earlier today. Great write up.

My question is: On the gen 4 Glocks, does polishing up the dump on the trigger bar do anything, or are there other things that make the Gen 4 pull feel heavier?

My Gen 4 trigger pull is 6.5# as measured by Grant from G&R. I've been planning on doing something about it, and this came along just at the right time.
Thanks for the write up. I was really worried about rounding that bevel on the firing pin safety/block because I had heard of it being done, yet never by someone I would consider knowing a lot about the mechanics of Glocks. I really didn't feel the need to swap a whole lot of components out on my 19 since I don't want that to feel anything like the 17 I use for IDPA/USPSA, however I still wanted to smooth it out a bit. The 19 has had probably 4k to 5k rounds put through it, but still hasn't worked itself to a point where I really like it.

Joined: December 6, 2008

Location: Fort Bragg

quote:
Originally posted by Stephen:
Has anyone done a firing pin block that is rounded instead of polygonal?

Stephen


Glockworx offers a dome head titanium firing pin block for $20. I have been looking at some of their parts, but have not tried this part or ever ordered anything from them, so I have no idea how good their stuff actually is or what kind of customer service they offer.
M4 and others: What are your thoughts on the Vanek Custom triggers which utilize Glock parts which are polished and "tuned" to make a smoother pull? A waste of money? Hazardous? I appreciate the info and detail you put into this post and look forward to your thoughts.

Vanek GSSF Trigger


ETA: Full disclosure, I bought the GSSF kit sometime last year for my EDC G19. I'm hoping that, at worst it was just a waste of money and not dangerous. I've put several thousand rounds, and attended a pistol class at USSA in Tulsa without incident. But I don't want to have to worry about this and will change it out if it's a liability. My thoughts at the time were that because it consisted of Glock-made parts it was probably GTG. I'll keep my fingers crossed until I hear from some of you Glock Armorers. Thanks.

Don't damage my calm -- (inspired by Haji)

M4Guru- Thanks for this. Excellent post. I'm a complete Glock newb thus my knowledge base is next to nothing with regards to internals (and still largely is).

While I'm doing better with not jumping on the proverbial grenade when it comes to upgrades (waiting for the vickers slide release, mag release is installed), I'm not beyond fault and have gotten a few things which I've wondered "WTF was I thinking?" from time to time.

Anything I have to say regarding glock's (or pistols in general) is highly suspect in the least.

To caviat on this, I did install the Skimmer trigger pack from Glocktriggers.com. Mostly out of curiousity as I have no experiance with what would constitute a *good* glock trigger so bear with me. So far, I like it compared to the Lone Wolf 3.5 connector which I had installed before on the stock peice. Also, NO I do NOT beleive that a simple 3.5 connector constitutes a full Glock trigger job. This new trigger pack on the other hand obviously didn't do as it was originally advertised by creating a 1911 trigger in a glock. As M4Guru pointed out, that's impossible based on the geometry of the trigger design. What it DID do is adjust pretravel and kept everything relatively the same, with a slightly lower feel to the break and reset and what feels like little differance to the overall pull wieght. For me, Glock has an almost M4-like break/reset quality in that it is audible enough to hear and easily felt (unlike some 1911 triggers, or my un-trained trigger finger). Needless to say, that is the quality I like most about the Grock, the trigger. In short, I like the Skimmer, its not bad, and while it might not provide the kind of trigger it was originally advertised as, it does provide an easy (if not expensive) alternative if pretravel is your main pet peeve with glock triggers w/o making the trigger to light or short for carry. It does not eliminate pretravel, only reduce it. But some people like the pre-travel on the glock. With glocks, like AR's there seems to be many choices among the winning combinations. If you have the knowledge to install/polish/adjust the trigger of your gun, so be it. I don't at the moment and this allows me to put a band-aid on that. What the hell, its already in the gun, so I might as well keep shooting it and see how it performs over time and how rounds fired effect the overall functionalliy of the trigger itself.

Now, as I said, my opinions are highly suspect when it comes to pistols so take them with a grain of salt. I've gained A LOT of knowledge just reading shit here. Part of which is why I carry glocks now and not a 1911.

Cheers, Matt

"It is easy to go down into Hell; night and day, the gates of dark Death stand wide; but to climb back again, to retrace one's steps to the upper air - there's the rub, the task."    Publius Vergilius Maro, The Aeneid

quote:
Originally posted by M4Guru:
Put yourself in a scenario where you've been forced to use your pistol and have fired 7 rounds. A target appears. What's faster, reloading under extreme stress or just pulling the trigger again...10 MORE TIMES? (thanks to Bob M. for that one)


This is critical thinking, even if you never intend to mod your Glock.

---------------------------------

It's not that life is so short, it's that you're dead for so long.

The .45-70 is the only government I trust

 

Joined: 1/30/06 3:34 PM - Location:MA

I have recently come full circle and I will be retiring my duty 1911 as soon as my heinies get her for my new 17. I have never had an issue with shooting stock trigger glocks, even the heavy trigger ones we got issued from the State Dept. I am not sure what they were but they were heavier than my personal 5.5 lb was.

I for one really need the positive reset you get with a glock trigger. i have a ton of rounds through the glock platform and am much more comfortable running that platform than the 1911 for duty use.

For me having 17 rounds on tap and being able to shoot the shit out of the gun with either hand unsupported is important for duty use. I am good with my 1911, but better/more confident with the glock. And now I wont have magazines hanging off me everywhere!

Once I get this new gun's trigger broke in, I will be set. Lighter trigger to me, is of no interest, but maybe that is because I have never shot a "good" glock trigger.

Semper 360

Guru’s post got me thinking. That and the fact I was off from work, with no wife or kids around so I did “The Guru Job” ©. The test subject was a “used” G19 RTF, that’s new to me. When I received the gun it still had the copper colored anti seize grease on the bottom of the slide, it hadn’t been shot much.

I installed a NY1 spring with the standard connector when I received the gun. I do this on all of my Glocks so the triggers mimic the trigger on my duty gun. The trigger was stiffer than I’m accustomed to with this set up on a new gun. I can’t pinpoint why. I’ve put 300-400 rounds through this gun so far.

I decided to do TGJ © one step at a time and reassembling to check the results before moving on to the next step.

I started out with what I know. Using Guru’s method I smoothed out the connector and trigger bar where they intersect using Flitz, a dremel at low RPM’s , and patience. This helped some, but not much. Next I radius’d the firing pin safety. This was a first for me. I did the brunt of it with a hand file. Once the edge was broken I hit it with the same Flitz recipe as above. At this point I polished the trigger bar where it meets the firing pin safety. Again I noticed an improvement, but the trigger was still stiffer than normal. I moved on to another first for me, I polished the lug on the firing pin. There were obvious wear marks/contact points on the face and sides of the lug. I polished all surfaces of the lug, except for the back which doesn’t contact anything. WOW there was a significant improvement in the trigger this time.

I’m not sure if the key was the lug being polished in and of itself or if it was because all of the parts were playing nice together. I’m planning on putting 500 or 600 rounds through it tomorrow or the next day. I’m thinking the trigger should be pretty smooth at that point. We’ll see.

Thanks again dude! The Guru Job © rights are obviously reserved for Guru’s use, or not. Big Grin
____________________________________
"It is about basics. The basics of Gunfuckingfighting." Pat Rogers

We, the willing, lead by the unknowing, are doing the impossible for the ungrateful. We have done so much for so long, with so little, We are now qualified to do anything, with nothing.

Joined: April 6, 2007
Location: Maryland
quote:
Originally posted by M4Guru:
I got a Gen 2 19 yesterday that still has the old black trigger bar. I am about to go mad science on that thing since I will swap it out anyways, so I don't have to worry about fucking it up.


M4, my hope is that as you dissect that gun you find a mechanical reason for my lack of accuracy. It can't be my fault the fell out of the black.
I had traded for a Glock 19 RTF that had been "modified" by the previous owner. I couldn't shoot it worth shit and got rid of it (this trigger and that spring with the other connector, etc.). I just picked up a gen 3 G17, all stock, and can shoot it much, much better. So much better I acutally really enjoy shooting and thus picked up another 17.

Thanks for the write-up...very educational for non-tech folks like me.
For the record, there is not one single original thought in that whole write-up, it's all stuff that I learned from someone else and/or can be found any number of places on the internet. I just wrote it out in one place.

If you want to print it out/save it/distribute it/whatever/edit it for your own purposes/, feel free to do so.
Although the information was generally available, it is really nice to have it in one place for easy reference. In addition, your write-up confirms which mods are proven durable.

Thanks for the detailed write-up. I tried the -connector both with and without the NY trigger spring. Personally, I didn't like the feel of the trigger compared to the stock connector. After reading your write-up, I think I may try the .connector.

I have also played with a titanium striker and striker block, they seemed to improve the feel of the trigger, but when I heard about problems with titanium 1911 parts, I went back to the original parts.

As I think about the details of the striker system, I can envision a titanium striker having possible durability problems due to the forces it receives; although it isn't struck by a hammer like a 1911 firing pin. In addition, I can envision the possibility of light primer hits. Has anyone done a lot of shooting with a titanium striker?

When I think about the titanium striker block, it is lighter so it should give a slightly lighter trigger pull. If I remember correctly, it was more polished so it should improve the smoothness of the trigger. Before I go through my old parts to dig it up and install it, I'm wondering if anyone has see a problem with a titanium striker block. I don't think it receives the same stress that the striker receives.
The biggest problem for me with the - connector was the reset completely sucks. Put a NY trigger spring in it and you are pretty much back to stock.

After reading the article I picked up some lighter rate firing pin block springs and have been waiting on a dot connector.

Joined: 3/27/09          Location: Back in MA for now

Thank you for the article M4Guru, I thought it was well written and laid out. I've done the job on two of my Glocks now and I plan on going after a couple of more.

It was a fun time. I even enjoyed chucking-up the Firing pin block like you mentioned. The results are really great. I was proud of my work and I liked my it enough to remove the titanium Lightning Strike block I had in my G17.
quote:

Originally posted by OldGreg

It was a fun time. I even enjoyed chucking-up the Firing pin block like you mentioned. The results are really great. I was proud of my work and I liked my it enough to remove the titanium Lightning Strike block I had in my G17.


Did you have very many rounds thru the G17 with the titanium Lightning Strike block? Did you experience any problems with the Lightning Strike block? Did your polished block improve the trigger pull?
quote:
Originally posted by powerflow:
Did you have very many rounds thru the G17 with the titanium Lightning Strike block? Did you experience any problems with the Lightning Strike block? Did your polished block improve the trigger pull?


My G17 is a Gen2 refurb. Most of the trigger bar components had pre-existing wear, so it's been shot.. but i'm not sure about the total round count. I added a new/factory 3.5 connector and the Lightning Strike block at the same time, and I bet i've shot 600 rounds of ammo through it and have done 1000+ dry-fires (w/ A-zooms). Also no, I never had any problems with it at all. I honestly think that the best part of the LS package is the Wolff spring that was included. To me, that's what makes the difference in feel. Would I buy another LS block? > no. Wolff spring? > yes!

I feel that I can't answer your final question completely, because I polished everything M4Guru wrote about, all at once. So I can say that yes, I like my results.. the smoothness. That's the improvement.. it feels more smooth for sure.

I hope that answers your questions.

~GB
Thanks OldGreg. I was mainly trying to get some info on the durability of the titanium Lightning Strike parts.

I had the Lightning Strike titanium striker and striker block in my G17 before I started doing serious training. I liked the feel of it, but I went back to the factory parts when I started hearing about titanium 1911 fire control parts breaking.

The reliability and durability of my gun are the most important things to me. Those are the strong points the Glock already has. I've spent the time to learn to shoot the factory Glock trigger and I shoot it better than every handgun I have, except for the 1911. To me, a good trigger is nice to have, but not if I have to sacrifice reliability or durability.

M4Guru's recommendations in this thread seem to follow the same train of thought.
I have been running what I believe to be Glock "-" connectors purchased from Glockmiester. A co-worker recently purchased a Scherer connector for his use. The Scherer is also stamped with a minus and looks identical to a Glock connector as far as I can tell. Is there anyway to tell the difference between a true Glock "-" connector and a Scherer? Thanks in advance.

9.11.01 Never Forget, Never Forgive

quote:
Originally posted by tex.45:
I have been running what I believe to be Glock "-" connectors purchased from Glockmiester. A co-worker recently purchased a Scherer connector for his use. The Scherer is also stamped with a minus and looks identical to a Glock connector as far as I can tell. Is there anyway to tell the difference between a true Glock "-" connector and a Scherer? Thanks in advance.


I've got a lot of scherer and OEM "-" connectors and the Scherers all came very shiny and the OEM dull matte. I've had generally equal performance from those two sources over a lot of rounds, however I did come across on Scherer that was "flat" (90 degrees) and would not reset. All in all, I would definitely pay a few bucks more for an OEM "-" just because it's OEM and they have a lot of strong history. The Lone Wolf Dist new type of "-" has gotten a lot of strong reviews for providing a subtly better trigger. I've got one of those in a Gen 3 and one in a Gen 4 G19 and they're good, but nuances of it vs OEM are barely perceptible to me. I bought a fancy Vanek "-" from another shooter and it would not reliably reset so it's in the bottom of my tackle box somewhere.
Just an update-

Preface, as I've said before, I'm a glock retard (and mostly gun smithing in general). Not sure if I could even call messing with a glock trigger "gun smithing" but I digress. I'm no armorer on any platform and just some schmuck messing around on the weekends when not in the gym. Glad M4Guru posted this as it's helped curb my typically misplaced enthusiasm.

I've ordered some stuff from LW, mostly stock glock parts (and a smooth faced trigger bar for my glock 19). Next step for payday, money for a dremel tool. Not only will this help in my errant polishing ventures but contouring and stippling my glock grips. The new Gen 3 19 I picked up is the newest

I even tried the Skimmer trigger bar in my 19 and ended up not liking it as it gave an even lighter pull with zero pre travel (even less then with the whole kit installed). All in all it felt a bit disconcerting. About the only thing I was able to salvage from the skimmer trigger was the connector, which is a (-) connector which is fairly well polished as far as I can tell. Considering each gun's relative use, I may change that order as I perfer a heavier pull on my CCW. "Heavy" for me is not bad as long as its smooth and reset is strong and pronounced.

Cheers, Matt

"It is easy to go down into Hell; night and day, the gates of dark Death stand wide; but to climb back again, to retrace one's steps to the upper air - there's the rub, the task."    Publius Vergilius Maro, The Aeneid

quote:
Originally posted by AZCOP:
Another FWIW, About a year ago, I put a '-' connector in my 21

The trigger pull was lighter/smoother than the stock connector, but the reset was way longer than the stock connector.

It was something that really screwed me, and my scores up. After a few hundred rounds, I decided a short reset was more important to me (and my scores) than a light/smooth trigger pull.

Jay


With all due respect (This is my first post on this board.) I think you might have, 'the cart before the horse'. I doubt very much that you're talking about, 'trigger reset'. Instead I think you mean, 'trigger take up'.

Yes, when a, '-' connector is used trigger take up is going to increase; but, this should have little or no effect on the way you repeatedly fire your Glock - Trigger take up is only apparent on the first shot.

There are a lot of things I don't like about Glock pistols; but, Glock's trigger reset is, without question, the very best of all the plastic frame pistols that I have tried. I'm able to do fast, and accurate pistol shooting with all of my older 3rd generation pistols. Here's what I would suggest for your Glock:

Return that 4.5# connector to the gun. Then install two Wolff Gunsprings: a 6# (extra power) trigger spring, and a 6# firing pin spring. I've been using this setup on my EDC Glocks for the past 9 years. My cumulative trigger pulls are within a range from 4.9 to 5.2 #'s. (Perfect for EDC and very nice and responsive for IDPA and other range work.)

Just so you know: Heavier springs are used in conjunction with a, '-' connector in order to further lighten and smooth out a Glock's trigger pull.



NOTE: Whatever you do, do NOT use a 4# (decreased power) FP spring on your Glock. Your liability will go up and the reliability will go down - OK!
I finally got my "dot" connector in the mail today.

My setup is -
- 3rd Gen G19, trigger was replaced w/ smooth faced trigger.
- Glock "dot" connector.
- Standard Glock trigger spring.
- Wolff extra power firing pin spring.
- Wolff reduced power firing pin safety block spring.

This is fairly close to the article's set up. I am home sick right now so all I have done is dry firing but as of right now this is the best set up I have tried so far.

Pull is more than the minus connector but less than the standard connector with much better feel to it. Less creep and definitely crisper. Reset is much better than the minus connector.

If I am feeling better tomorrow I will go and test fire it to give it a full evaluation.

Joined: 3/27/09          Location: Back in MA for now

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