Glock trigger explanation and thoughts

Ok experts. I have gone from a Ghost 3.5 drop in, to a Glock "-", to a Glock "." that I got out of a Gen 4 G19. As I understand it the trigger group housing in the Gen 4 guns is smaller than the Gen 3 guns. As I understand it, Glock came out with the "." connector to match the feel of the standard connector in the Gen 3 guns. I understand that connectors behave differently in Gen 4 guns because they are canted by 5 degrees in the smaller trigger housings.

So what I want to know is are there any long term affects from running a "." connector in a Gen 3 gun? I would say there wouldn't be, but I am a little slightly out of my lane. All I know is that the "." connector in the Gen 3 guns really does alot for the reset. The pull is slightly heavier than the 3.5 ghost but the feel of the reset really makes up for it.

Take Care, Shannon

quote:
Originally posted by Apprentice:
I'm OEM only on connectors now (again). I removed the LWD minus from my carry Gen 4 G19 after seeing the pics of Todd Green's that sheared off at the narrow part; locking up his endurance pistol and he only had about 16K rds on that connector.


I don't know what that proves? I had a Glock factory connector that wasn't made right, failed to consistently reset, and occasionally went full-auto on me. I've got LWD connectors on 3 Glocks, right now, that respectively have: 18,000 +, 5,000 +, and 2,800 fired rounds through them. I suppose anything's possible, though. (And I'm no, 'die hard' Glock fan, either.)

As a matter of fact, in 9 years on Glock Talk this is the first time I've read about something like this happening. Usually it's how the connector was manufactured that's the problem. (Sometimes even the factory gets the angle wrong.)
It probably doesn't prove anything beyond that connector broke. But so many Glock connectors have run the life of the gun, and I didn't find the LWDs to be all that so it's an easy choice for me. I tried a Vanek that instantly showed me it wouldn't reset reliably. I've come across flat connectors that wouldn't reset. Good failures you learn of right away. Green was carrying this gun for defense, and it broke and locked up on it's 2nd shot of a new class. Out of nowhere. That's a nasty kind of failure.

The LWD improved the trigger in the one Gen 4 G19 I left it in. The other two were in spare parts because experimenting with them in other guns didn't improve anything I could perceive and in one Gen 4, gave a crunchy 3 stage pull. Each one (glock triggers) is like a beautiful unique snowflake.
I'm new to trying to smooth out the trigger on Glocks so I have a lot of questions that may be silly to those of you that know and understand all this stuff. I've been shooting Glocks for awhile but never really thought about the trigger pull until I read this thread.

I guess you could say I don't know what a "good" Glock trigger pull is like when compared to factory because factory is all I've shot. This is really the first time I've taken a good look at how the Glock works inside so bear with me.

So, let me get this all straight as far as what does what for the pull. Polishing the hump on the trigger bar and either rounding and polishing the firing pin block or buying a rounded titanium one would smooth out the first part of the trigger pull while the slack is being taken up on the way to the part where the trigger actually breaks. What parts smooth out the actual "break" of the trigger? Also, what point in the trigger pull is the weight of pull measured, as in where will a person feel the difference between a standard and "-" connector?

My final question is which part or parts cause the "staple gun" feel when the trigger breaks for lack of a better term? My G17 has more rounds through it than my G19 which just recently got a brand new trigger bar with smooth trigger put in. The two feel pretty similar during the first part of the pull but the G17 breaks, smoother and crisper I guess? The 19 feels exactly like a staple gun if that makes sense. I apply pressure, pressure, pressure then SNAP! It kinda makes my sights jump when it finally breaks. What are the parts cause that difference? Is it where the back end of the trigger bar touches the lug on the striker?

Hopefully someone can help edumacate me Big Grin
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Don't hit me with them negative waves so early in the morning.

Joined: 8/26/03    Location: US
quote:
Originally posted by Stephen:
Has anyone done a firing pin block that is rounded instead of polygonal?

Stephen


Like this?


http://www.brownells.com/.aspx...UNGER-for-GLOCK-reg-

I have one in my G19, along with the lighter spring. I think most of the benefit comes from the lighter spring, honestly, but it doesn't hurt. M4G mentioned rounding the OE plunger by mounting it in a drill's chuck and spinning it against a stone.

I haven't done that, but I ordered a second OE plunger to experiment on. By doing this, minus the plunger spring itself, my G19 would be all OE parts.

- - - - -
"You can only reason with a reasonable person." Pat Rogers

The "jump" is probably due to the overtravel. You've built up 3-6 lb of pressure and suddenly it's gone and the trigger then moves a couple tenths of an inch and that throws it off. I don't know if practically, it makes a difference on the accuracy. I think someone would have to do some high speed photography to determine if the bullet is still in the barrel and the overtravel jerk causes movement before the bullet has exited the muzzle. If the bullet is already on the way, then the over travel is more of a dry-fire issue.

Lock time on a hammer fired gun is slower than on a striker system, so overtravel can be a factor on those guns.

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Mark

Swear allegiance to the flag Whatever flag they offer

Never hint at what you really feel

Teach the children quietly For some day sons and daughters

Will rise up and fight while we stood still

 

Joined:  2/24/2003                          Location:  Nevada, USA

By just eyballing it, it looks like the trigger moves almost twice the distance on the 19 after it breaks than the 17 so it sounds like that's probably it. Is that something that can be fixed easily or is it just different between pistols? It may not change the impact of the bullet but it's obnoxious lol.
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Don't hit me with them negative waves so early in the morning.

Joined: 8/26/03    Location: US
I have been using a standard Gen3 19 with a standard 5.5lb and a 17L with the 4.5lb (-) connector. I prefer the lighter pull on the 17L and seems more of a smoother break. Thanks for the write up, very informative. Learn something new everyday
"Very few problems in this world cannot be solved with high explosives"
I've played with a lot of Glocks and have found that the Gen3 with an older trigger bar (prior to the current "dog leg" trigger bar) along with the Gen4 "dot" connector to be a great combination.

I can get a consistent 4# crisp break. Add in the current trigger bar with the "dog leg" and it takes the trigger to about 4.5#.

YMMV. My experience is with unpolished parts or reduced power springs.

She wants to sell my monkey! Go Pens! FIDO

Excellent and detailed write up. ANybody in S.WI /N. IL that wants a decent FTF on basic Glock work shoot me a PM. I've done the factory Armorer's Course for us LE and am still amazed when I get to a Glock agency just how uncared for those sidearms are. I'm not into fancy BS: the .25 cent polish job, knowing how to do a complete tear-down and clean, and the basic lube points. Then, you shoot the crap out of it-bug your armory sgt. for more ammo., more G-time.
Excellent work brother.
I recently acquired a new to me 3rd gen Glock 22. It was a bone stock PD trade in gun with dead tritium, it looked to have been cleaned, once, maybe twice, in it's LE career. Whoever carried the thing appears to be a big fan of that black “Gunslick” brand grease, that shit was everywhere. The trigger group was gunked up something awful. I cleaned it up and installed a Ghost Rocket 3.5 disconnector with the Ghost spring kit. I polished every moving surface in the trigger group as well as the plunger to a mirror finish. I initially tried the 4 lb striker spring but it was just too light, and made the pull seem mushy so I went with the 6 lb striker spring. The over travel stop was a PITA to fit, but once I got it dialed in it was completely worth the effort. I REALLY like the trigger pull, it might be a tiny bit lighter than stock, but only a tiny bit. It’s firm and smooth, and it’s hard to describe it but it’s got the “rolling” feel of a light, short, smooth double action revolver. The other three Glocks are all getting the same treatment as I have the time to do it. Overall it was well worth the $35 for the kit and the three or so hours I put into the installation and polishing. Only thing left is cleaning out the dead, staked in Meps and installing the new set I ordered.
Makarfal

"Well son, it's a free country, that means everyone is entitled to their own opinion, no matter how stupid or misinformed it might me" My Dad.

Excellent writeup Guru. I know this took quite a bit of time & effort.

 

FWIW here's a link to The Glock Armorer's Manual:

 

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t...72,d.b2I&cad=rja

 

The date stamp is 03/20/2002 & some info may be outdated or incorrect for Gen4 pistols.

 

Originally Posted by M4Guru:

Striker: I polish the protrusion on the bottom where it interacts with the trigger bar. This further ensures a smooth pull during the cocking and releasing of the firing pin by the trigger bar.

Roger that.

 

The mating surface on the back face of the cross is also important. It's made at an angle & the angle shouldn't be changed, just polish the face smooth & bright.

 

 

 

 

 


Joined: 6SEPT2012 from Benton, Illinois Website: www.Precision.Works

Chief Tecumseh "So live your life that the fear of death can never enter your heart"

Question for those in the know: what, if any, is the differences in between the two trigger bars below?

 

I noticed that my Gen 4 G19 (foreground) has a more squareish indent on the lobe of the trigger bar, while the other (background) is round. The shape of the lobe is the same between the two, and everything else appears to be the same as well.

IMAG0567

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"We must be able to apply the appropriate degree of force and discrimination...demonstrating a complete business like attention to detail and if necessary, we must be able to kill with ruthless efficiency" - MSG Paul Howe

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I would guess different machines. No difference otherwise. Check the serial number range to see if they had any differences between runs. There is a pretty extensive list out there on a forum that I cannot recall, from Gen 1 all the way to the latest Gen 4 blasters. It's fascinating checking out the mechanical history of guns.

 

The "jump" comes from overtravel of the trigger bar in the trigger housing - mass produced lego guns result in looser design tolerances in certain areas. While it personally doesn't bother or affect me any longer, picking up a tune-able ejector housing group from Zev Technologies will alleviate the overtravel (https://www.glockworx.com/Deta...=156087&CAT=3695)

 

I picked one of those up, decided I didn't really need it, and drove on. I had my G34 production class gun tuned with everything you could tune it with, and now I'm back to a minus connector, NY1 (olive) trigger spring with the spring removed (plastic only), and a lighter striker safety spring. About the only thing I have left is the lightened striker from Zev to improve detonation rates on the winchester ammo. Too many hard rifle primers in their stuff - sometimes even a fully stock Glock will have light strikes with the stuff, I've even had Hornady rounds not go bang with big 'ol indents in the back of the primer.

Originally Posted by chickenfuker:

... About the only thing I have left is the lightened striker from Zev to improve detonation rates on the winchester ammo. Too many hard rifle primers in their stuff - sometimes even a fully stock Glock will have light strikes with the stuff, I've even had Hornady rounds not go bang with big 'ol indents in the back of the primer.

Sometimes a heavy primer indent on a round that doesn't fire is caused by excessive headspace. Every factory round I've measured (9mm & .40) is well below SAAMI minimum but that isn't the problem. If the chamber is cut too deep (too far forward) the already short case moves forward when the firing pin strikes the primer. The indent looks good but the shell doesn't fire because much of the firing pin energy is used to push the round forward until it stops against the chamber mouth.

 

Aftermarket barrels like KKM tend to run close to SAAMI minimum. A few aftermarket barrels need to be cut deeper (finish reamed) because they exceed minimum headspace. What all this means is that an aftermarket barrel may reduce or eliminate your ignition issues. YMMV.

Precision Works,

 

Thanks for the heads up - have only had it happen with 2 Hornady rounds out of 2000 or so. The Winchester primers usually have what appears to be light strikes on them. I'll check the headspace to make sure it's GTG. I have been trying to find an excuse to purchase a KKM barrel and get it fitted.

Originally Posted by chickenfuker:

... I have been trying to find an excuse to purchase a KKM barrel and get it fitted.

LOL, no excuse needed for buying the KKM. They are exceedingly consistent in both external & internal (chamber) dimensions, running around .003"-.004" headspace barrel after barrel after barrel ...

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