Let's talk custom guns, with details

Let's do another...

I've always loved Kevin Boland's infamous "Recce" rifle.  There are plenty of pics of it around and it even got used in a Magpul ad:

KB

CarbinePerfectionII001

More than just the aesthetics, it was fairly in line with what I wanted out of a general purpose carbine.  Where KB used a stainless barrel, I went with an FN barrel.  I like a good solid gas block and I've never needed a tone of rail space (10-12" is just fine for me).  I used a Short Dot with CQB reticle from day one (I'm a Short Dot fan).  I had to add my signature: Geissele trigger, KAC triggerguard and selector, SOPMOD stock, BFG sling, ERgo grip, and SF flash hider.  Much of the rest is factory Colt (upper, lower, bcg). 

tumblr_n7i280e8rI1td8lf5o1_1280

Marvin Pitts did the necessary custom work to mill the URX to work with the KAC fsb block.  Marvin makes sure the URX is timed perfectly which I think if done right makes the URX one of the best FF options. 

BoSLSzcCVyDnssm7yM2TI

This carbine has served me well for some time.  It gave me multiple years of faithful SWAT service, and has been put to the test in more than a few classes.  In fact, it will probably show up at a Guerrilla Approach class very soon.  The balance, accuracy, shootability, and reliability have made this one of my favorite rifles to date. 

eua3LiH

recce

 

Attachments

Photos (8)
Newt posted:

Pointblank. Excellent post and kit. Which geissele do you use? Just did my first geissele on an LMT 308 and I like it but I'm still a newbie in that world.  

I currently have a mixed bag...

2x SSA's

2x SSA-E's

2x MR556/416 SSA's

1x Super Tricon

I've got an SSA currently in the gun pictured above, but I had an ALG ACT in it early on as the pictures show. My current duty/patrol rifle also is just a plain SSA.  I feel that the SSA is a good all round option that's good but still workable in a non-precision carbine.

The SSA-E's reside in dedicated SPR's and are just a touch lighter and crisper.

For some reason the HK variants kind of have their own feel despite being essentially SSA/SSF design...probably the hammer geometry.  They are a touch more crisp than the traditional SSA but are the same or similar weight

I got the Super Tricon on a whim.  I tried the straight up flat trigger once and hated it.  I like the subtle trigger bow and ribs.  There seems (may be a perception of trigger geometry) to be less travel and more reset return, but I think it's slightly heavier than the SSA as well.  I can run this one FAST.  This would probably be my go-to for a duty/fighting gun trigger.

 

To get this thread back on track...

The MSG-3K Concept 

(Note: This piece of HK artwork is now owned by our resident Consigliere, and most of this is a repeat from his thread)

Some years ago, I had a KAC EMC when they were still relatively fresh on the market and very expensive.  While it was a great gun, I was rather underwhelmed with it for what it cost.  Thinking I could build a better mousetrap...for less while addressing some issues I had with the SR25 (trigger, magazines price, parts availability, I looked at other platforms.  Being an HK junkie, wanted to do a G3/91 style gun to run with the EMC.  Having already done a heavy-barreled HK DMR with TSC Machine, I knew they were accurate, but I wanted to slim the gun down to something more practical.  As the name implies, it's a hybridization of the MSG90 and G3K.  It also stems from the rare MSG3 dmr variant, but only shorter..."kurz"..."K".  This rare variant was an inspiration:

I selected an SR9 barrel (and I was lucky enough to source a new one by chance) because of the slightly increased twist rate, heavier profile, and poly rifling.  Mike modified a 21E stock to utilize the super heavy buffer to further mitigate recoil and to balance the gun.  MSG90 trigger and mount were used for simplicity sake and to keep things as "true HK" as possible. 

 

Here is my first firing of the gun and the zeroing of the 1.5-6x20mm Schmidt & Bender Short Dot.  

One final adjustment down and right got me the happy little trio just slightly right of my POA.  100y prone w/bipod using Black Hills (I think)

 

Here I shot a group for 100y prone (no bipod) using only irons and 150gr FMJ Remington.  Group is about 3" or so. 

 

 

 

This one got put up because it was a lot of gun and bulk for not much range/optic.  It pegged out on the fun and Badass-o-meter, but its practicality dipped quickly.  Ultimately, I ended up playing with it just like an abbreviated 91/G3 with the plain open sights.  And during the 5 years it took to plan, collect parts, build and set up, the market for factory 91 parts went the way that everything HK eventually goes (stupid expensive) and killed a lot of the logistical advantages save for aluminum magazines.  The sale of this went to finance the GA Precision rifle on the previous page.  

This was my most recent project:

I picked up the base rifle, a '94 based off the barrel stamp .338 WinMag stainless R700, for $400 from a fellow deputy. The bolt and bolt face had no evidence of significant wear.

It went to my smith, who trued the action and installed a Lilja 3R groove barrel, chambered in .300WM.

Base is a Farrell with Badger rings, with a Loopy 4-14x40 with their TS32 MOA reticle. Not a big fan of the huge honking scopes lot of folks put on their guns, and I like the aesthetics of that particular model along with the 100 minutes of adjustment.

The original wood stock was replaced with an AICS AT chassis. The SCARmor of the AAC brake was blasted off to match the rest of the gun. As the trigger was a Walker model, it was kept, and tuned down to about 2.5lbs.

Now if I could only afford to shoot it.

Attachments

Photos (2)

The Workhorse.  Frank Glenn S.70 Colt.  

I don't even have a round count for this gun, but there was a long time when 500 rounds of 230ball per week was the norm.  This is my primary gun, not my primary 1911.  It's my go-to gun.  I'm more comfortable behind this pistol than any other firearm I own.  It's a confidence inspiring machine.  It may not be the "best" gun I own, but damn if I don't shoot the best with it.  This thing is infallible and shoots as straight as any high dollar custom I've ever owned. 

Heinie straight 8 sights, some Ed Brown parts,  and a Kart barrel are the only things that stand out.  The checkering is sharp, and the back of the slide is serrated.  The trigger guard isn't pretty, and the bluing is gone in alot of spots.  Frank does some incredible bluing, and this has really held up well, despite all i throw at it.  Heck, I haven't taken it apart in probably 6 years.  I remove the grips, and spray brake cleaner at the frame/FCG, and RC car cleaner at the slide/barrel.

This gun was originally built for a Sheriff in AZ, so Frank built it to run, and run with a little style too.

The Backup.  Frank Glenn Colt Police Positive, 38spcl.

Frank built this for me as the "backup" for the Colt pictured above.  If you haven't noticed by now, my personality fault is needing everything to be custom.  I couldn't just get by with an  airweight J.  No it needed to be custom and it needed to be Colt.  So I took this unfired police positive and had Frank make a "detective special" out of it.

He chopped the barrel, redid the front sight, chamfered the cylinders, and went through the gun.  Again, Frank is a peerless bluing man and it shows.  Sourced the older grips and here we are.  Full length ejector is a huge bonus.  I've since bobbed the hammer a little, Ted Yost style,  just to get the sharp edge off.

HI standard

 So, a little different. This is a 1966 dated High Standard Tournament.

From what I can read, the Tournament was the entry level competition gun from them. The major difference is the the slide mounted rear sight and less adjustable trigger...but they shoot as good as the nicer guns did.

I got it a local gunshow a few years back. First range trip and it went full auto. Took awhile to find a smith, but I found Dave Sams. He is a retired AMU gunsmith specializing in bulls eye guns. He said he would be happy to work on it. 

I sent it out, and asked him to do everything he thinks it needs, plus add stippling to the front and back straps, and a bead blast blue finish.  I also sent along two extra barrels graciously sent to me by a fellow LightFighter..Dave went thru it, deburring and squaring this or that, changed springs, etc. He has a fixture to test barrels and wanted to est all 3, but that was getting into some money, so I elected to stick with the barrel it came with. He tuned 5 mags and the gun for CCI SV...the HS don't do well with HV ammo. They are also kinda finicky as they have no feed ramp..

I went thru some various grips, factory thumb rest, Herretts NM, and the Siles on their now. One day I may go for an anatomical grip, but...

I can not say enough about Dave and this gun...it will annihilate the X...the X not the X ring, from a rest at 25 yards. I have shot 98s & at least one 99 with this gun on a B8 strong hand only at 25yds.

 Theory....I wanted a pistol that was a pure shooting machine, meant to do nothing more then pile bullet holes on top of each other, and it delivers...and I wanted the old school look and feel.

What I generally do, is start a pistol range session by using this or a BuckMark field target that Sams did a trigger job on, to shoot 50-100 rounds in 10 shot strings slow fire SHO. Then move on to the combat guns and drills. I may finish up with some more with the target guns. With the cold weather moving in, I'll take them to the indoor range, where any combat training is kinda pointless. The 22 makes for a nice quiet enjoyable range day...well, as much as chasing that X ring can be enjoyable...

Future....I may have the other barrels tested and fitted, or...Dave can reline the barrel with a Lothar/Walther liner...says it will shoot with any gun out there.

High Standard [2)

 I swear sometimes I look more forward to shooting this then any other guns I have. I'm getting pumped just writing about it.

----------------------------

"Good landing, good fight, and good luck" James M. Gavin 09Jul43

 "they say if it works, it's a good tactic...I say anything can work once" 

Attachments

Photos (2)

Bob, what caused the full auto?

I had a worn sear on an old Springfield Armory V-10 Ultra-Compact that would go full auto or give me unexpected triple taps. Fun if you're expecting it. Not so much if it's a surprise. 

Mojo/Mark
__________________________
Yo homey, is that my briefcase...?
Vincent from "Collateral"
__________________________
You want the good life, you break your back, you snap your fingers, you snap your neck... Prong/Demon Hunter

Joined: 9/30/09
Location: Northern Nevada (Reno/Sparks)

MOJONIXON posted:

Bob, what caused the full auto?

I had a worn sear on an old Springfield Armory V-10 Ultra-Compact that would go full auto or give me unexpected triple taps. Fun if you're expecting it. Not so much if it's a surprise. 

No idea...but it doesn't do it anymore. At first I thought it was me, bump firing the light trigger, but I consciously pinned the trigger and still had issues.

----------------------------

"Good landing, good fight, and good luck" James M. Gavin 09Jul43

 "they say if it works, it's a good tactic...I say anything can work once" 

theJanitor posted:

That's awesome, Bob.  I need a super accurate 22.  I've heard some great things about the  Nelson 22 conversion for the 1911.  I may go that route

Shooting partner has one, had Dave Salyer build it, he is kinda local. Pretty sweet set up, he did it as a dedicated .22, from what I'm reading a lot of guys are just doing the conversion on their centerfire gun though.

----------------------------

"Good landing, good fight, and good luck" James M. Gavin 09Jul43

 "they say if it works, it's a good tactic...I say anything can work once" 

About 2 years ago a close friend opened a small precision rifle shop. He had been doing barrel work for years and had a good working relationship in the bench rest community. 

This rifle started out as a stock Remington 700 AAC-SD in 308. Over time it has turned into this. In its current configuration I have used it in a couple rifle matches. It is going to be cerekoted later this week.

He trued and blueprinted the action, installed the barrel, and installed the APA break. 

22" Hawk Hill barrel MTU contour

McCree Precession G5

He has also built me a 6.5 very similar to this, but it's at his shop on display. It's not as pretty as some others posted.

IMG_3446

LPD "People ask the difference between a leader and a boss. . . The leader works in the open, and the boss in covert. The leader leads, and the boss drives." - Theodore Roosevelt

Attachments

Photos (1)

He also built me this rifle using a Surgeon 591 action. Another 308 with a 26" Bartlein barrel and an AI stock.IMG_3448

LPD "People ask the difference between a leader and a boss. . . The leader works in the open, and the boss in covert. The leader leads, and the boss drives." - Theodore Roosevelt

Attachments

Photos (1)

Ok, let's keep this going.  I hope Newt has some time to write up reviews of those HiPowers.  In the meantime, I'll post up a recent acquisition:

Wilson Combat Colt.  Defensive Combat Pistol Deluxe.  1997

This was a Wilson premier grade  gun.  The Standard DCP had fixed sights and plain slide features and was touted as a serious CCW/defensive pistol.  The Deluxe version also added Bomar sights, and the rear of the slide was serrated.  It moves the pistol into the "Practical Pistol" competition category. 

Like the other wilson's I own, this was built by a group of very talented pistolsmiths, Vic Tibbets, Ron Phillips, Chris Peters, etc.  I cannot describe how good their work is, and how consistent it is.  Bill Wilson ran a very tight shop and their products were impressively consistent model to model, year to year.

 

 

Damn that's gorgeous TheJanitor. That's a gun I could get behind.  Don't worry.  I'll get the HPs up soon.  I had to travel last week.  I'll get it going.  I put another 700 rounds through the Williams yesterday.  It's great.  Details soon.

OK.  Sorry for the delay.  Time to talk Don Williams and The Action Works.  First thing to say is that Don is just a great guy to work with (as is Ted Yost of course).  I consider myself not a total putz, although compared to many on this board and elsewhere I certainly have a lot to learn.  These guys though are simply Encyclopedias of gun and smithing.  Don spent some good time with me on the phone walking me through a sort-of philosophy.  Gently nudging my bad ideas, and helping round-out my almost-good ideas.  Work with him.  You'll like it.

With Don's gun I wanted all function, no fancy.  Well, fancy if it supports function. haha.  I think the two best 'smiths out there for pure function P35's are Steve at MARS and Don at The Action Works (although I think from this discussion I might have to try Sokol out, especially him being in my home state of Vermont (how the fuck didn't I know that?)).  This gun is to be the gun I go to for training, IDPA (along with my 9mm 1911), and generally beating and using hard.  Initial Conclusion: Don built me the perfect gun.

The wide C&S Trigger is great.  I really like it.  It's got longer travel than the yost, it's also got a longer reset with more takeup.  But it's still really fantastic.  If the Yost is, in my book, the perfect trigger, this is 95% of that.  So for all intents and purposes, no real difference when I'm shooting a lot and shooting well.  Considering this gun's total cost was about 1/2 the yost, I'd say that difference in a fighting fun isn't worth the upsell unless you're a BHP nut like me.    I can shoot the yost a LITTLE faster with the gold line site, control it a LITTLE better with the beavertail, and reset and follow up  a LITTLE bit faster with the yost trigger. .

 

The one feature I now wish I had on all three is the front serrations.  I really like them, and the are actually useful. I think they even look good.

So first look you can see largely what Don did:

  • Reliability package
  • C&S hammer
  • C&S wide trigger
  • machine and install Heinie straight eight sights
  • Dehorn
  • Stipple front and back
  • Don's "Tactical Package" which you can see on his site
  • Don's trigger job
  • Bevel mag well.
  • Machine in the front serrations
  • I added the VZ grips
  • Finish in ION Bond DLC

So I avoided the fancy stuff.  No rear serrations or checkering like the Yost.  No flattening, barrel crowning any of that.  It's simple, it works, and it's awesome.

The stippling works.  I have no grip problems with lots of follow up shots.  The VZ's help.  They're freaking aggressive.  After a 1,100 day I had a couple of blisters on the palm of my left hand (no friend jokes...) from the grips, and I don't have the wimpiest hands ever.  They're a little grippy for concealed carry (catch on things) but I still carry them.  I thought about sanding them with 800grain sandpaper, but they don't bother me enough.

The beveling really does make a difference.  I had this gun before without the beveling, and I'm surprised at how much better a reload is.  It's still not as fast as my 1911s, glocks, but it is better than a stock BHP.

This gun is my first with ION Bond.  Some smiths won't do it anymore because of the hassle, and because it can be hard to get even finish.  But it seems tough and really good looking. Here's a better pic of the finish.  Externally you can't really see any wear after a good bit of shooting.  Internally you can see some on the slide where the barrel locks up. that's it.

You can also see how the trigger widens out and is wide and flat.  I really like this trigger. My finger lands just right, it's light, the pull is perfect, the break is as good as the Yost.  The reset is longer, and takeup is longer.  But man it's sweet.

The last bit of this gun is a bit of an oddity.  It's the Cylinder and Slide Oversized/Wide Safety.  It's a great part.  It's the easiest of the safeties on my three BHPs to manipulate, but it has issues that I think would make it "not for everyone."  It's wide as fuck.  When I first got it, I didn't realize it but it was so wide I was sort of curling my thumbs around and activating/pushing down on the forward tab of the slide stop and activating the slide stop.  For a while, I thought I had the world's most expensive single shot browning hipower until I saw what I was doing.  I'm not sure why I do that with this safety, as I don't with the others.  I did realize because of it that I was CLOSE to doing the same with the other guns.  So after some serious retraining of my grip (keeping my left thumb lower), it was fine.

The other issue is leather.  This thing is so wide it catches on basically anything you holster it with.  So holstering in either of my Milt Sparks (Criterion and SS2) it catches on the lip of the leather.  I have to sort of ride my thumb in as I holster and push the leather away. You can see it's relatively wide profile catching leather in the second photo.  I still like it, but it's....different.

Otherwise, I love this safety from a pure manipulation point.  Yes that appears to be German Shepherd fur in the slide rails.  For those of you with German Shedders, you know how it goes.

Overall this gun is just outstanding.  It's I'd call it 90% of the Yost for 1/2 the money.  And if you want a real custom working gun, I'd pick Don.  

Newt

Newt, What an awesome piece.  It's got an all-business attitude that I love, and Don's work comes with very high regard.  How do you like the C&S trigger compared to Garthwaite's? 

With regards to the Yost, I felt the same way about my Sokol.  It was almost as good, for much less money.  

This started out with a few simple concepts;

  • Build a long-range .308 bolt gun around the Badger M2013 short action
  • Use as many other Badger parts as ergonomically feasible
  • Attain maximum accuracy from that amalgamation
  • Package in a build that was tactical in nature (e.g. magazine capable, two-stage trigger, proven stock, bipod etc.)

Why the Badger 2013 and Badger parts? I suppose much of that, especially around actions, is akin to arguing religion- which I won’t engage in. Suffice to say I had a chance to shoot the 2013 and was impressed. It feels very much like the bolt gun actions I grew up with, only better. I have also been impressed with the consistent quality of Marty’s work. Hence one of the reasons for using many of his other parts.  Last, but not least I spoke with people who have probably forgotten more about this subject than I will ever know.

Application wise, while the rifle is a capable platform, it will be purely recreational in use.

In terms of other main parts, the barrel is a Bartlein m40 contour 5R/10 custom chambered, threaded and bedded, the Badger M5 DBM with AI mag all packaged in an Manners MCS-T4A.  All machined and assembled by SA Customs.

Lessons learned; The Timney Calvin Elite trigger does not work consistently well with the 2013 action. I switched to a two-stage Huber Concepts trigger after the Timney failed during function testing. The scope is an SB PMII.

Let’s simply say the accuracy is not disappointing and frankly beyond my capabilities.

 

_______________________________________________________
"Idque apud imperitos humanitas vocabatur, cum pars servitutis esset"         

 

"You are never out of the fight."

 

Joined: 9/5/2011 Location: The Former Empire State, now The State of Anarchy

Newt hold off on calling Soko until I get mine to his shop.

That Don Williams is awesome 

LPD "People ask the difference between a leader and a boss. . . The leader works in the open, and the boss in covert. The leader leads, and the boss drives." - Theodore Roosevelt

Thanks to you fuckers Im sending my duty 642 BUG to Sokol.....likely with my SW19 right behind

"Without training they lack knowlege, without knowlege they lack discipline , without discipline they lack victory"

 

“Go as hard as you can, for as long as you can, and then quit.”

 

Joined: October 2, 2007

CWM11B posted:

Thanks a lot Newt, now I'm more confused than ever about who to send my HP to.

Me.

Seriously, though- you are spoiled for choice re good BHP 'smiths whereas I would have to export mine to get good work done.

Cheers,

Linz

Newt posted:

Dux, that's a great looking setup.  Can you tell me what the overall length is? 

Overall length is about 42.5 inches with the Badger FTE.  I went with a 22 inch barrel. 

_______________________________________________________
"Idque apud imperitos humanitas vocabatur, cum pars servitutis esset"         

 

"You are never out of the fight."

 

Joined: 9/5/2011 Location: The Former Empire State, now The State of Anarchy

CWM11B posted:

Thanks a lot Newt, now I'm more confused than ever about who to send my HP to.

I think he just made my decision for me.

I just sent a Remington 581 .22LR off to have an Anschutz barrel installed...once I recover from that, the BHP will be next...maybe sooner...

----------------------------

"Good landing, good fight, and good luck" James M. Gavin 09Jul43

 "they say if it works, it's a good tactic...I say anything can work once" 

Regarding Chuck Warner his Elite Warrior Armament company has a FB account. A while ago he had some surplus Hi Powers for sale that had been worked over and looked pretty good. 

LPD "People ask the difference between a leader and a boss. . . The leader works in the open, and the boss in covert. The leader leads, and the boss drives." - Theodore Roosevelt

More Warner's. I can't find a good picture of his Israeli surplus Hi Powers. IMG_3461IMG_3460IMG_3459

LPD "People ask the difference between a leader and a boss. . . The leader works in the open, and the boss in covert. The leader leads, and the boss drives." - Theodore Roosevelt

Attachments

Photos (3)
VaporLullaby posted:

While I'm thinking of it, does anyone know of a place that does work with HKs? I've heard of smiths and shops for Glocks, HPs, 1911s, and even CZ75s, but not much about any HK pistol wizards out there. 

Bowie Tactical does HKs.  Of all of the pistols out there, HKs have the least done to them .  Not saying because they don't "need" it....(well, OK, they don't) but there is only so much you can do to them.  Guys invest thousand in Glocks and to what end I have no idea.  They will never be the works of art that the metal framed  1911s, HPs, SIG 210s and various revolvers are.  They and the HKs weren't made for that purpose.  That said, as soon as I recover from Turkey2016, I'll post some stuff.

-------------------------

IT'S A COLT.  THEY'RE LIKE THE HK OF GUNS.

 

I find it ironic that the colors RED, WHITE and BLUE stand for freedom until they are flashing behind you.

 

The Most Reverend Consig

 

"F**K YOU, I'M MILLWALL!!!"  Roy " The Lion of London Bridge"  Larner

 

 

 

 

Joined: 28 Nov 2004: 0037hrs        Location: The worst run state in the U.S

Add Reply

Copyright Lightfighter Tactical Forum 2002-2016
×
×
×
×
×