M&P 2.0

First couple paragraphs of presser:

SPRINGFIELD, Mass., January 3, 2017 – Smith & Wesson Corp. today announces the debut of the M&P M2.0 pistol, the latest innovation from the iconic firearms company. Designed for personal, sporting, and professional use, the M&P M2.0 pistol delivers an entirely new platform, introducing innovative features in nearly every aspect of the pistol, including the trigger, grip, frame, and finish.

James Debney, President and CEO of American Outdoor Brands Corporation, the parent company of Smith & Wesson Corp., said, "When we launched the first M&P polymer pistols over 10 years ago, they were a game changer for the company. Since that time, we have clearly established M&P as a leading firearm brand and built an incredibly strong family of products around it, including the market leading M&P Shield® pistols. Now, with a decade of experience under our belts, we are very excited and proud to reveal our next generation M&P pistol – the M&P M2.0. We expect this completely new product platform to clearly differentiate us from the competition and take significant share in the handgun market. Today, we are launching the 9mm, 40S&W and .45 Auto versions of our full-size design, but stay tuned for multiple new product additions and line extensions in 2017 that will establish a completely new family based on this platform. This is a key strategic milestone in achieving our vision for the Firearms Division, which is 'To be the leading firearms manufacturer'."

Matt Buckingham, President of the Firearms Division, said, "Our goal is to continually strengthen and grow our leadership position in firearms by meeting and then exceeding the needs, wants, and desires of the consumer. With this goal always in our minds, the new product development team at Smith & Wesson tapped into more than a decade of M&P experience, performance data, and candid feedback from professional users when designing the M&P M2.0 Pistol – and it shows. When you pick up this pistol, the first thing you'll notice is an extraordinary grip that feels great in the hand – and that's just the beginning. From the grip, to the new aggressive texture, to the crisp trigger and audible reset, this pistol feels and fires like a next-generation model should – and more. This is clearly one of the most advanced production pistols on the market today, and we believe it is the pistol that consumers have been waiting for. The M&P M2.0 in 9mm and 40 caliber versions is in stock at our distributor partners and is shipping today."

It looks pretty good and they have one that matches the custom one I was designing in my brain.  !!!!  Anyone know the purpose of the two recesses in the dust cover?  Other than to collect dust and mud that is.

-------------------------

Mark

Swear allegiance to the flag Whatever flag they offer

Never hint at what you really feel

Teach the children quietly For some day sons and daughters

Will rise up and fight while we stood still

 

Joined:  2/24/2003                          Location:  Nevada, USA

Any info on compatability with current holsters?

______________

"A pistol is what you carry when you do not expect a problem. If you expect a problem you can't avoid, and you are not taking a long gun, you are not very smart." - DM

 

Joined: 04Nov2007         Location: Indiana

We literally just went to M&P45s in late 2015. Everyone's biggest gripe was the trigger (as usual). They replaced the slide release with a new one which somehow provided a noticeable reset.

I wonder if this new grip feels better than the legacy M&P. I'm currently running small backstraps on mine but if this new grip angle is like the BCM rifle grips versus the classic A2, then I may snag one in 9mm.

Not a fan of the lack of a pronounced beavertail now though, but that's just me.

 

Don't dial 911, dial 0311

I'm sure the MA compliant version will have a trigger that sucks.

---------------------------------

It's not that life is so short, it's that you're dead for so long.

The .45-70 is the only government I trust

 

Joined: 1/30/06 3:34 PM - Location:MA

Dorsai posted:

It looks pretty good and they have one that matches the custom one I was designing in my brain.  !!!!  Anyone know the purpose of the two recesses in the dust cover?  Other than to collect dust and mud that is.

Mark IIRC on SSD, someone said those recesses allow visibility for the barcode & ser. #

Joined: 3.28.09            

Location: NETX

Looks much better however I would have to shoot one to ring out the accuracy especially in the 9 mm and not ready to go away from Glock's again at this point

"Without training they lack knowlege, without knowlege they lack discipline , without discipline they lack victory"

 

“Go as hard as you can, for as long as you can, and then quit.”

 

Joined: October 2, 2007

Malpaso posted:

I'm sure the MA compliant version will have a trigger that sucks.

hell. at least you get to buy it. Kalifornia with the "safety roster" makes new pistols "unobtainium".

On a specific to m&p note. I have 3 of the older m&p's in 40 and 9mm and the Shield. I have had *serious* accuracy issues with my 9mm.  I have much better accuracy with my m&p 40 and shield. I can reliably score a 90-95+ on a B-8 @ 25 yards with my glock. I can barely scratch 85 with my m&p 9mm and if I'm not *very* careful I get BIG flyers that go off dropping me into the low 70's.

So much so that I completely lost confidence in the pistol past 15 yards and now use my glock 17 instead. I upgraded the trigger, barrel, sights etc ... I've dropped another pistols worth of upgrades into the *&&#&^*@! thing and it still has a dispersion pattern at 25 yards that makes me vomit in my mouth. Its very inconsistent from shot to shot.

DocKGR is an amazing shooter and did a great comparison of m&p average accuracy vs glock and the m&p came up short. I can't find the link to his post on this.

I like everything about the m&p but its accuracy. I'm pretty sure I just got a dud ... but oh what a dud !

Malpaso posted:

I'm sure the MA compliant version will have a trigger that sucks.

It would be hilarious if they decided not to make a MA compliant version, that or if Maura Healey decides to full retard again and blocks any new additions to MA compliant firearms list.

 

viking_overlord posted:
I like everything about the m&p but its accuracy. I'm pretty sure I just got a dud ... but oh what a dud !

Supposedly, the M&P's lack of accuracy is why it's no longer in the running for the Army's MHS bid...


This thread by its nature, is highly speculative as opposed to hands on experience.  Keeping that in mind, there are some things that are obviously based on prior complaints.  

- The beavertail has been reduced.  I don't have a problem with the current guns in that regard, but trimming the tail reduces the overall length a bit and might help with flapped holsters.  I don't really care about this.

- There have been complaints about the slide stop breaking.  Limited complaints, but they were there.  So it looks like that has been beefed up and modified.  Only time will tell if it is actually better.

- The grip texturing is similar to the texture on the .45 Shield.  I think everyone liked that and it essentially mimics the more aggressive texture you get when you send a gun off to Ben Simonson and others.  They also added a couple of half moon cutouts at the mag well to facilitate pulling a stuck magazine.  I wish they would cut a deal with 10-8 for the magazine floor plates.

- I don't think they did this, but they should have, is a better radius under the trigger guard where it contacts the middle finger.  That was also an issue for me with Glocks when shooting a lot and a stock M&P is the same.  I have one M&P that had a radius cut there and it feels MUCH better.  But again, I don't think they did that.

- The .45 had forward slide serrations and they are now doing that on the 9mm and .40 guns as well.

-  The long slides have a rounded contour to the nose like the old "L" models.  The Pro's are squared off.  I like that.  I also like that you can get a long slide, FDE, with thumb safety without having to buy multiple guns and switch slides.

-  Lighter trigger pull, crisper trigger pull, and a distinct reset.  Obviously they listened to the complaints and the success of Apex.

-  I am leery of the new, extended chassis.  The flexing of the Glock frame was one of the unexpected features that reduced recoil.  I guess we'll have to see.

-  The .40s and .45s didn't have accuracy complaints.  So we'll see if they resolved it with the 9mm.  IIRC, it was an issue with twist rate and when the barrel unlocked with the slide.

-------------------------

Mark

Swear allegiance to the flag Whatever flag they offer

Never hint at what you really feel

Teach the children quietly For some day sons and daughters

Will rise up and fight while we stood still

 

Joined:  2/24/2003                          Location:  Nevada, USA

Longeye posted:

It looks a lot like the original. I hope they fixed the fucked up ergonomics of the original grip. And put an Apex trigger kit in this new version.

Fucked up ergo's??

That is one of the things that most people like about the gun. I certainly went to the M&P for the shorter LOP. The new one has 4 available backstraps.

----------------------------

"Good landing, good fight, and good luck" James M. Gavin 09Jul43

 "they say if it works, it's a good tactic...I say anything can work once" 

Moustache_6 posted:
Malpaso posted:

I'm sure the MA compliant version will have a trigger that sucks.

It would be hilarious if they decided not to make a MA compliant version, that or if Maura Healey decides to full retard again and blocks any new additions to MA compliant firearms list.

 

viking_overlord posted:
I like everything about the m&p but its accuracy. I'm pretty sure I just got a dud ... but oh what a dud !

Supposedly, the M&P's lack of accuracy is why it's no longer in the running for the Army's MHS bid...


Where did you hear that?

----------------------------

"Good landing, good fight, and good luck" James M. Gavin 09Jul43

 "they say if it works, it's a good tactic...I say anything can work once" 

 

 So, over on another pistol centric forum...and it seems most of the internet..they appear to be mad that S&W didn't build a Glock.

I must be the only one left that likes the M&P and .40cal

It appears that most of what the 2.0 is, is what I've done to my M&P40's. Including removal of the beavertail, stippling, apex kit, match barrels, etc.

I don't think the triggers were ever that bad, certainly not a good 1911 trigger, but neither is a Glock, my M&P45 had a heavy trigger, but was a laser and shot extremely well in a LAV class. I could not care any less about a audible and tactile reset.

 Someone complained that they kept the "weird curved trigger"....I would wager that a curved trigger is fairly prevalent in the firearms world. I much prefer the curved and hinged trigger to the center lock lever on the Glock.

My 40's accuracy was acceptable, but I always want more, so I tried different match barrels..same as with my Glocks

Factory stippling..what is not to like about that? 

Word on the 'net is the safety is a bit more positive....and I like thumb safeties when I can get 'em

No gun is perfect, and most of them go through growing pains, and revisions/updates.

If you don't like the M&P, fine...there are other options, but why ask for it to be made into it's competitor?

I'll pick one up as soon as I can

 

----------------------------

"Good landing, good fight, and good luck" James M. Gavin 09Jul43

 "they say if it works, it's a good tactic...I say anything can work once" 

R.Moran posted:

 

I must be the only one left that likes the M&P and .40cal

I like the M&P. Especially compared to a Glock. You're on your own with the 40 though.


It appears that most of what the 2.0 is, is what I've done to my M&P40's. Including removal of the beavertail, stippling, apex kit, match barrels, etc.

Same here. The only thing I don't have in mine is an aftermarket barrel. Was going to be picking up an Apex barrel soon but I'll try the new gun instead.

I'll pick one up as soon as I can

 Yep.

 

Joined: 1/19/2010   Location: West Virginia

Dorsai posted:

 

-  Lighter trigger pull, crisper trigger pull, and a distinct reset.  Obviously they listened to the complaints and the success of Apex.

 

I was always surprised on how hard it was for S&W to give a single action pistol a decent trigger.   Hopefully this one will rekindle my interest.

________________________________________________________________

 

Kilroy... ...was here.

 

Telling ain't training........listening is not learning.

 

The full size M&P .40 was my favorite M&P ....Im a 9mm guy but couldnt get over the horrible accuracy in the full size however the compact was acceptable. 

For whatever reason the .40 M&P was easier to shoot for me compared to the GLOCKs in .40 and no issue with the tac light. 

If restricted to the .40 it would be the M&P for me.

"Without training they lack knowlege, without knowlege they lack discipline , without discipline they lack victory"

 

“Go as hard as you can, for as long as you can, and then quit.”

 

Joined: October 2, 2007

Is it bad that I'm so used to the beaver tail that I want one ADDED to my H&K P30 and P30L?

I mean maybe it doesn't have to be THAT pronounced, but you can fuck up approaching the gun on the draw by a bunch and still end up in the right place.

______________

"A pistol is what you carry when you do not expect a problem. If you expect a problem you can't avoid, and you are not taking a long gun, you are not very smart." - DM

 

Joined: 04Nov2007         Location: Indiana

FastSS posted:

Is it bad that I'm so used to the beaver tail that I want one ADDED to my H&K P30 and P30L?

I mean maybe it doesn't have to be THAT pronounced, but you can fuck up approaching the gun on the draw by a bunch and still end up in the right place.

I like the M&P shape generally, which is why I bought it when I finally got with the times and moved to the plastic pistol era for good. I got the Pro and never customized a thing on it (okay, I had them send me a lanyard loop thing). I came from mostly shooting a DAO smith, which also had weird reset, so this seemed fine to me. 

The big beavertail is one thing that I really appreciated. I got a real big one on my 1911, and loved some others I have fondled, added with great difficulty to stuff like High Powers back in the day. I've seen them added to Glocks also! 

I just went to the safe, and while it's hard to really compare different guns, the M&P-1 beavertail is all of around 3/16" longer than that on the Gen 3/4 59xx guns. It doesn't /feel/ much different.

I don't like the look of the 2.0 without it extending past the slide, and that would seem to be Glock like, but need to get my hands on one. When do they start showing up in store shelves? 

The things that will destroy America are prosperity at any price, peace at any price, safety first instead of duty first, the love of soft living and the get rich quick theory of life. – Theodore Roosevelt

 

Joined: 19NOV2004   Location: Mission, Kansas

Kilroy posted:
Dorsai posted:

 

-  Lighter trigger pull, crisper trigger pull, and a distinct reset.  Obviously they listened to the complaints and the success of Apex.

 

I was always surprised on how hard it was for S&W to give a single action pistol a decent trigger.   Hopefully this one will rekindle my interest.

I think it's because they don't want any one to know its a single action

----------------------------

"Good landing, good fight, and good luck" James M. Gavin 09Jul43

 "they say if it works, it's a good tactic...I say anything can work once" 

I like the ergonomic on the M&P.  I had considered getting a used VTAC and cerakoting one of my long slides.  Now I don't have to!  Of all the issues, the erratic nature of the 9mm accuracy is the one that most needed fixing.  Hopefully they did it. 

My Glock 35 balanced much better (IMHO) than the Glock 34.  I enjoyed shooting it and I picked up a 9mm barrel for it and enjoyed that as well. 

In watching the video, I saw a longish, narrow bar on the top of the slide behind the breech.  In the same place as the loaded chamber port, so it might be a true loaded chamber indicator.

-------------------------

Mark

Swear allegiance to the flag Whatever flag they offer

Never hint at what you really feel

Teach the children quietly For some day sons and daughters

Will rise up and fight while we stood still

 

Joined:  2/24/2003                          Location:  Nevada, USA

It dos look like the two of the grip inserts have a beavertail, which I always thought would be a better way to go. Usually its only the shooters with big paws that want the BT.

A leaked pic of the MHS submission showed a loaded chamber indicator on top of the slide. Meh...I was fine with the cut away chamber hood. An old 1911 gunsmith of mine did that way back in the 80's.

According to a poster on the other forum, they spoke to a S&W rep and the M2.0 is NOT the MHS submission...different gun.

----------------------------

"Good landing, good fight, and good luck" James M. Gavin 09Jul43

 "they say if it works, it's a good tactic...I say anything can work once" 

Kilroy posted:
Dorsai posted:

 

-  Lighter trigger pull, crisper trigger pull, and a distinct reset.  Obviously they listened to the complaints and the success of Apex.

 

I was always surprised on how hard it was for S&W to give a single action pistol a decent trigger.   Hopefully this one will rekindle my interest.

M&P, military and police. That target audience, at least the ones doing the deciding/purchasing, have historically looked for a heavy trigger, you know, for safety reasons . The end user, not so much.

---------------------------------

It's not that life is so short, it's that you're dead for so long.

The .45-70 is the only government I trust

 

Joined: 1/30/06 3:34 PM - Location:MA

I am told by our rep holsters are compatible with current ones, and mags are absolutely the same. I'm a fan of the beavertail as well, however, the new profile is pretty much the same as my M&Pc, so probably not that big a deal. I saw them for sale on some website yesterday for 450 something, which leads me to believe individual officer price will be under 400. 

I should have one soon to wring out. Was told about it a while back but gave a word of honor handshake NDA, so I kept my mouth shut, unlike the tools who leaked it. S&W was PISSED about that. From what I have been told, the accuracy is improved in th 9mm, FWIW.

Location: North Carolina

From breachbangandclear: 

The pistol will be rolling out en masse with 9mm, .40S&W and .45 versions available simultaneously, but the President of American Outdoor Brands Corporation (S&W’s parent company), references additional product line expansions in the coming year. He says they’ll “establish a completely new family based on [the M&P M2.0] platform.”

 

Is it too much to hope they release a "compact" that's closer in size to a G19?  

RocPO posted:

Is it too much to hope they release a "compact" that's closer in size to a G19?  

This. The current compact is much too short and thick to be a really practical crossover pistol.

Actually, putting a long Shield slide on the existing 9/40FS frame would be the best of both worlds. Kinda like a modern Hi Power. Slim slide for IWB work and full size grip.

 

 Why not just buy a G19 then?

 

 Ok....but every gun is a compromise, so you give up some to get other things. I can live with the size difference. In fact, instead of demanding a 19 sized gun, I'd be happy if SureFire made the XC1..or whatever it is, fit the Compact.

----------------------------

"Good landing, good fight, and good luck" James M. Gavin 09Jul43

 "they say if it works, it's a good tactic...I say anything can work once" 

RocPO posted:

I have a G19. But I'm issued M&P for work so it'd be nice sticking with one platform. 

I got ya...just being a smart ass, though sometimes I find it comical when people want this or that from them or those.

Years ago, Guns and ammo magazine used to have a Christmas wish list thing, where in readers wrote in with what they wish the industry or gun companies would introduce. So many would be shit like, I wish Ruger would make a lever action like Marlin, I wish Remington would make a model 70 controled round feed action, I wish Colt would make ...you get it..uh, ya know those things are available, right?

But, I get it..I kinda wish they would come out with a G19 sized gun...because there is so much that I prefer in the M&P then in the Glock. But, I can live with it...I put a MecGar +2 mag extension on the compact mag and it's pretty close to G19 in size..still a slower reload then a 19 though.

But, i can't get a thumb safety, hinged trigger and shorter LOP in a G19...so....

I did read one opinion that was uninterested in the G19 sized gun...feeling it was not big enough for exposed duty carry, and too big for concealed carry....jack of all master of non...o

opinions vary, thats why they make so many different types of guns.

 

FWIW..I carried a G22 for years, but shot 1911's and later M&P's almost exclusively on my own time/dime...and never really felt handicapped by that.

----------------------------

"Good landing, good fight, and good luck" James M. Gavin 09Jul43

 "they say if it works, it's a good tactic...I say anything can work once" 

I work for a Glock-issue department, but a bunch of my firearms instructors are all  a-twitter about this pistol.  Not knowing much about it, I asked if they had had handled or shot one.  No - they were just excited about the pictures basically.  

I hope it turns out awesome, but until someone gets out there and shoots the piss out of the productions guns with great results, I'm cautious.  I do hope it turns out to be a winner.  Another good pistol on the market drives us toward better pistols.  Win-win. I've always been a little curious about the line, and have shot them little (a few of out tac team guys won them at a competition). They seem OK, but are just not what I'm used to (same reason I have barely shot a HK VP9 that is a safe decoration).  Like most, I secretly want every cool looking gun that comes out, but have to temper my spending.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

It's easy to make assumptions about puppies strapped to missiles, but good science requires research.

 

Joined: 12-2005          Location: Central OK

There are a couple of significant differences between the Glock and M&P actions that I think give some advantages to the M&P.  I think that S&W has done a good job of learning what could be improved on the Glock in the 30 plus years since it was introduced.  And there are still some tweaks available to the M&P as well.

First the differences and what I think they mean.

When you pull the trigger on the Glock, it first "cocks" the striker the rest of the way.  Then an angled surface causes the trigger bar to cam down as you continue to press until it releases the striker.  So the Glock is at half cock until the trigger is pressed almost all the way to the rear.  That is touted as one of the Glock's safety features.  The M&P on the other hand is at "full cock".  When the slide moves forward, the tail sticking down from the striker catches on the sear and is held to the rear.  The trigger bar has a looped projection that causes the sear to pivot when the trigger is pressed, releasing the striker.  I have various iterations of the Apex sear (and trigger on a couple) on my M&Ps.  I have an aluminum trigger with forward set sear on one gun and the same set up with a polymer trigger on another.  The Apex triggers are Glock like in that they have the safety tab in the center rather than a hinged trigger.  I don't know why Randy did that as I don't really see any advantage, so it may be just his bias.  But with the FSS and trigger, you can get a trigger pull that is almost 1911 like.  Very little take up, crisp break and almost no overtravel.  I have thumb safeties on those guns and refer to them as my M&P 1911s.  I don't think you can get that kind of trigger with a Glock because of the design.  I've played with some of the tricked out Glocks and I think my M&P is better.  Not by much, but still better.

I'm very interested to tear down one of the M2.0 versions and look at the steel chassis modifications.  I think those curious recessed "ports" in the dust cover reveal part of that chassis.  I've been able to see one pic of the gun's right side and I didn't see a serial number where it is on the earlier M&P.  I have a hope that they put the serial number on the chassis they way Sig did on the P250 and P320.  If so, it may be more fixed in the frame and harder to remove than the Sig, but it would (potentially) mean that you could switch out frames and slide groups to get different calibers and sizes on the same gun.  I think that is one of the brilliant advantages to the Sig.

-------------------------

Mark

Swear allegiance to the flag Whatever flag they offer

Never hint at what you really feel

Teach the children quietly For some day sons and daughters

Will rise up and fight while we stood still

 

Joined:  2/24/2003                          Location:  Nevada, USA

Here is some more info from an S&W rep

 

"The Striker, extractor spring, striker block (or Striker safety plunger)and its spring are the same.  The barrel, extractor, locking block, take down lever, trigger bar and some of the other parts in the sear housing block are different. 

Some of my demo guns are being shipped to me now.  When I get them I will be able to see of the grip panels will interchange.  My gut feeling is that they will. 

As far as the armorers certification goes they are still thinking on that.  I do have the new armorers manual for the M2.0 but I am not sure they are going to extend the current certification to the M2.0 or not.  Time will tell on that.  

I can tell you that they shoot very well.  The trigger pull is much improved over the original guns.

They will take a little time to show up at the LE distributors.  They just learned of the new gun today "

"Without training they lack knowlege, without knowlege they lack discipline , without discipline they lack victory"

 

“Go as hard as you can, for as long as you can, and then quit.”

 

Joined: October 2, 2007

Ok, rep stopped by the shop yesterday and gave me the following rundown:

Trigger bar is changed and the "candy cane" loop is gone. Gives a more consistent trigger pull weight and a more durable part.

All steel mag release. Apparently there were issues with mags falling out ocassionally under recoil. Had nit heard of or seen that, but the day before while shooting my 9c, it was happenig with one of my mags enhanched with the MecGar +2. Never happened before, and did not with unaltered mags, so more investigation is in order. The new mag releases will interchange in the old guns.

Grip inserts will interchange with old guns.

Cut outs in the slide: Right side forward (rectangular) is for the SN. Square one behind it is for the scan/barcode thingy (technical term). I suspect having them on the left side is more a symmetry thing.

Mags are absolutely interchangable. Was told most parts are. I asked if one could retrofit an old gun with the new fire control unit and trigger bar, answer unknown but will find out. Like ArticLF, our rep does not have his yet but anticipates next week. I've submitted for sample to play with, and once we have it will shoot the piss out of it . our current guns are only three years old, so I do not see a change anytime soon, but if this thing lives up to the hype, it will mire than likely reside in our holsters at some point. I'll be long gone by then, however.

Location: North Carolina

"Cut outs in the slide: Right side forward (rectangular) is for the SN. Square one behind it is for the scan/barcode thingy (technical term). I suspect having them on the left side is more a symmetry thing."

That sounds like they moved the S/N to the steel chassis.  Depending on the dimensions, that at least offers the possibility that they will interchange with other size frames, similar to the Sig, but more on the armorer level since you'll have to punch pins.  Possibly the ability to switch to a compact grip and slide group.  Probably not able to switch between 9mm/40 and .45.  Dollars to donuts, you won't be able to interchange the FCG components to the earlier guns.

-------------------------

Mark

Swear allegiance to the flag Whatever flag they offer

Never hint at what you really feel

Teach the children quietly For some day sons and daughters

Will rise up and fight while we stood still

 

Joined:  2/24/2003                          Location:  Nevada, USA

What leads you to believe that the steel components embedded in the polymer frame are removable?

The SN has always been part of the metal chassis, they simply moved the location.

I am not seeing the frame swap being listed as a feature anywhere.

 

Because the steel chassis appears to be removable.  Just a quick flash in the video, and I haven't been able to see any detailed photos, so it is only a possibility.  It would also be cheaper to manufacture if all the metal components were inserted into frame rather than being molded into it.

-------------------------

Mark

Swear allegiance to the flag Whatever flag they offer

Never hint at what you really feel

Teach the children quietly For some day sons and daughters

Will rise up and fight while we stood still

 

Joined:  2/24/2003                          Location:  Nevada, USA

Add Reply

Copyright Lightfighter Tactical Forum 2002-2016
×
×
×
×
×