M&P SHIELD Magazine Megathread.

Ok dudemans, here is the first post with the new purpose of this thread.

I've been in contact with MagGuts attempting to return the +2 kit. I'm not sold on their system in general and would prefer to A.) Test it as a +1 on a 7rd, and B.) Run the HYVE +2 so I don't need to jack with the factory spacer.

As far as springs go, the factory 7 and 8 round magazines I have use identical springs which are around 7" in length and straight as an arrow from the factory. The MagGuts flat springs are roughly 7.25" new and are the same for the +1 and +2 kits.

Magazines:

  1. Factory 7rd with MG+1: Factory spring failed after an absolute maximum of 12 load & fire and 2 load & unload cycles. Currently fitted with a MagGuts+1 and Pearce Grip Extension.  Roughly 10 partial load & unload cycles have been done to seat the spring and explore the system.
  2. Factory 8rd: Factory spring slightly bent forward at coil reduction after an absolute maximum of 12 load & fire and 2 load & unload cycles.
  3. 44Mag 7rd: Factory spring slightly bent forward at coil reduction after 30 load & unload cycles.
  4. 44Mag 8rd: Factory spring, loaded once.
  5. 44Mag 8rd: Factory spring, loaded once.
  6. 44Mag 8rd with Hyve+2: Factory spring, loaded once.

I'll post updates as I'm able to test.

The following are measurements regarding how far past flush the various magazines protrude:

  • 7rd: Flush (+0.0")
  • 8rd: +0.44"
  • 7rd + Pearce: +0.58"
  • 8rd + MG+2: +0.70"
  • 8rd + HYVE+2: 1.15"

It is my opinion that anything beyond the factory 7rd starts going against the design purpose. To each their own beyond that. I think the HYVE extensions are absolutely absurd, but are likely the most reliable way to get 10 rounds in the gun. The Pearce is staying around long enough for testing the MG+1 purely for comfort. Win or lose, it'll get dumped.

A couple of notes regarding the MagGuts "upgrades" - The flat spring is a bit of a cunt to put in. If you  poke and prod with an Allen wrench, you can get some better results on the initial assembly. The objective is to get the top edge of the spring against the rear of the follower. Inserting the spring with a bit of tension, and pushing back on the top of the spring with an Allen wrench (or something) will force it back into place and make stuffing the spring much easier.

Because the follower is flat, there is a chance that the bottom round will end up at a diagonal. When this happens, they might all end up like that which really eats into your capacity. I've found the best practice is to spin the second round while inserting the third round and then spin the third in the opposite direction. The goal is to see a round right up against the #3 hole (on either side) so that the rounds can start staggering like they're supposed to.

Not much to say about the HYVE kits. They're built like fucking tanks and are pretty hard to fuck up. They work exactly like factory 8rd, except the 8th round goes in 3 times. Neat.

 

OK SO, lets have some pictures. Upon investigation of the magazine bodies, I found some subtle differences. In each comparison, the factory magazine will be on the top with one I got from 44Mag below:

factorysw44magsw

Note that the S&W logo and 9mm markings in the second picture really aren't that blurry. They look like that on the mag itself, the "9mm" makes a small dent in the side.

factory444mag4

The 4s are probably the most obvious. They aren't even kind of the same.

factoryvs44front

This image is horizontal on my computer but uploads like this. It is hard to see anyway, but if you look at the indentations near the top of the magazine body, they're different. The magazines that came with the gun have a narrower, more defined, and slightly deeper indentation. All of the magazines from 44Mag have wider, softer, shallower indentations.

I'm not saying any of these differences are significant, I'm just saying they indicate a change of some sort. There HAS to be a reason why some of you guys have high rounds through yours without issue and mine is on the struggle bus. There also has to be a reason why more posts have shown up around the Disinformation Cow Path since I started this thread.

The followers appear the same, as do the springs. Something is obviously different enough because I've got one ruined factory spring in less than 14 load/unload cycles and one slightly bent one after 30. One magazine that was a whore out of the gate and got progressively worse, and one that has always felt fine.

 

Here are a couple shots showing relative lengths.

allmags

8and10s

I'm going the fuck home. Fuck New Years.

______________

"A pistol is what you carry when you do not expect a problem. If you expect a problem you can't avoid, and you are not taking a long gun, you are not very smart." - DM

 

Joined: 04Nov2007         Location: Indiana

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Interesting comparison, thanks for posting. I was planning to order a few of the 8-rounders from 44Mag to take advantage of their blowout sale, so it's interesting to see the differences. I'm guessing they just represent different production batches or"generations" - I hope they're not selling some kind of factory seconds or something.

I don't actually have a Shield, but since I may get one eventually, it seems like too good a deal to pass up.

Dave

I believe I've seen a case in the past where the gun ships with magazines from Vendor A and extra mags ship from Vendor B. Either that or the H&K US Clinton AWB magazines and springs may have been made by a different vendor than the standard mags. I believe at least the springs were. Don't remember.

I hope some folks will come along over the next week and say what body type they have and if they're having any problems. It is interesting to me that the 7rd and 8rd that came with the gun are the same relative to eachother while the ones from 44Mag (1x 7rd, 3x 8rd) are different from the ones that came with the gun but the same relative to eachother.

Unfortunately there is no observable difference in the springs. All have the same number of coils, the same thickness... everything I can measure is the same. If you lay all of my springs on their right side, all of the coils will be touching the surface. The point of failure seems to be the last large coil before the reduction. Aside from that, I don't know shit.

I'm not worried in the slightest about getting screwed by 44Mag. Those mags are S&W's problem from here on out.

A quick note on hand load/unload cycles: I understand that there is a lot going on in the gun after it goes bang. However, comma, the included 7rd mag would have failed quickly without being shot - just as the Clinton AWB H&K mags did.

 

______________

"A pistol is what you carry when you do not expect a problem. If you expect a problem you can't avoid, and you are not taking a long gun, you are not very smart." - DM

 

Joined: 04Nov2007         Location: Indiana

For what it's worth, I just looked at my mags....

My 2 original mags I got with my Shield (1- 7rnd, 1- 8rnd mag) look like your 1st pic (more defined lines).

My other mags (2 - 7rnd and 4- 8rnd mags) all look like your 2nd pic (less defined lines).

My additional mags I purchased all at different times and places over the last 2 -3 years or so...

All my mags so far have functioned 100% (even the 2- 8rnd mags I have with the HYVE +2 bases on them). Admittedly, I have for less rounds out of my 7rnd mags as I don't use them all that often compared to my 8rnd mags.

_________________________

“If a nation expects to be ignorant and free, in a state of civilization, it expects what never was and never will be.” ~ Thomas Jefferson

 

"If you tell a big enough lie and tell it frequently enough, it will be believed." - Adolph Hitler

 

"Dont' believe everything you read on the Internet."  - Abraham Lincoln

Thanks for the info. I can't imagine that the differences in the body change the function at all.

I can however imagine a world where a company ships a firearm with more visually 'perfect' magazines. Like I said, I swear I've heard of this before.

I'm leaning towards a bad batch of springs - perhaps as a result of the holidays and end of year gun laws changes. There is no way you guys have had such reliability out of your guns over the last few years and I'm such a neanderthal that mine took a shit straight out of the box.

I mean I break shit like a champ, but I'm not THAT bad.

______________

"A pistol is what you carry when you do not expect a problem. If you expect a problem you can't avoid, and you are not taking a long gun, you are not very smart." - DM

 

Joined: 04Nov2007         Location: Indiana

Have you had any issues with the Magguts? Recently while downloading a mag (to update carry ammo) with the HP's in there it wouldn't hand cycle reliably (tried several times). The rounds would either nose dive or get hung up on the lip where the case and bullet come together. I switched back to stock mags until I can get to the range and see what the deal is. This happened with my 7rd +1 and 8rd +2.

In Valor There Is Hope
FastSS posted:

I ordered up some mags from 44Mag.com. 1x 7rd, 3x 8rd.

Oh by the way, they're running a sale. $17.00 for factory 8rd mags. Not shitting. http://www.44mag.com/product/m...e_8/smith_and_wesson

Palmetto State Armory sent out an ad for 8-round magazines for $8.99 each (!!!) today. I put three in my shopping cart, and then someone walked into my office. When I remembered to go back to finish the order a couple hours later, they were sold out. I don't even have a Shield yet, but I couldn't pass up on that deal. Oh well.

3ACR_Scout - Insane! Since basically every dime I've got is currently tied up waiting for the Trijicon 1-8 I don't really get around to check deals.

It kinda sorta makes me wonder if S&W knows something is wrong and is blowing out the potentially defective run under the concept that most people will never shoot the gun enough to encounter the problem, and those who do will unfuck it one way or another.

SCSU74 - Was just about to suggest that. MagGuts flat springs have to be installed with the cut ends towards the back, and usually fucked with a little to get the springs fully settled in. I've not had the chance (or desire) to drive 45 minutes and freeze my ass off for science, but the few times I've hand loaded/unloaded mine it was pretty clear it was going to be a bitch at least until the spring sorted itself out.

I've got some other projects which require range time, so I'm looking forward to some decent weather. I don't mind training in bullshit, but I do mind troubleshooting in bullshit if I don't have to.

______________

"A pistol is what you carry when you do not expect a problem. If you expect a problem you can't avoid, and you are not taking a long gun, you are not very smart." - DM

 

Joined: 04Nov2007         Location: Indiana

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