Painting Your Carbine- from the Book of Pat

quote:
Originally posted by fresca:
Great post Pat

The Military Vehicle collectors use Aervoe because their need for accuracy in paint color borders on neurotic. If they need the color used by the USMC on an M151 between October 1971 and August 1975, Aervoe probably makes it.


And that's how i was turned on to it.
Color fidelity means i can get multiple cans labeled for a specific color and be reasonably assured that it will actually be that color...
On the topic of Aervoe, not guns. Aervoe is what I used to paint my Samurai. It is still going strong after 4 or 5 years. And if I get a scrape, I just give it a blast from the rattle can. I think I've done that once.

-------------------------

Mark

Swear allegiance to the flag Whatever flag they offer

Never hint at what you really feel

Teach the children quietly For some day sons and daughters

Will rise up and fight while we stood still

 

Joined:  2/24/2003                          Location:  Nevada, USA

quote:
Originally posted by capntroy:
quote:
Originally posted by CaptainVideo:
If one were to be looking for a color of the Aervoe paint to match FDE furniture from Magpul, would it be their Coyote color?


I'm interested in the answer for this also if anybody knows...

Thanks for the tutorial Pat


In Pat's original posts, those five-digit numbers associated with the Aervoe color names are your key. They're the Federal Standard 595 (Fed-Std 595, proponent agency is GSA) identifiers. Fed-Std 595 to my knowledge uses ONLY the numeric identifier, and there is no "official" name associated with a standard color, which is why you can't just do a lookup on "flat dark earth".

This page gives a quick overview, and this page breaks down the system a little further. It looks like the FDE finish you want will be in the 30xxx range.

That website has "search" and "browse" features, the caveat being that every computer monitor (other than the $$$$$ ones designed specifically for color fidelity) may render the Internet color chips a little differently.

Another bit of arcana cluttering my brain is the recollection that FDE may not be one of the "357 unique color shades" defined in Fed-Std 595 - in the same way, "coyote brown" was originally the name of a designer house paint color, and may not be a Fed-Std 595 color; and the USMC name for the Fed-Std 595 color started out as "Mojave brown" - the Marines will correct me if that's not current good info.

"I always wanted to be a priest or a fireman; now I'm both." - Fr. Mychal Judge, OFM; 5/11/1933 - 9/11/2001

"It's morning again in America." - Ronald W. Reagan 1984 re-election campaign

"Jim, my dawgs are killin' me... life is good." - Patrick A. Rogers

quote:
Originally posted by Pat _Rogers:
Once more, i stand in awe of your analytical skills!
USGPO used to have a 3 ring binder of all of the FS 595 Paint Chips. I had one 25 or so years ago, and unknown is they have that available now.

I *believe* you are correct re the Coyote Brown origins...


In performance evaluations, it's referred to as "attention to detail" or "analytical skills" but in everyday discussion we all know that I'm just keepin' the anal[-retentive] in analytical! Big Grin

With respect to the chips, the challenge of accurate rendering on electronic displays and computer printers is why this is not available digitally, at least from the .gov

"I always wanted to be a priest or a fireman; now I'm both." - Fr. Mychal Judge, OFM; 5/11/1933 - 9/11/2001

"It's morning again in America." - Ronald W. Reagan 1984 re-election campaign

"Jim, my dawgs are killin' me... life is good." - Patrick A. Rogers

Here's the film version of Armaments 2:9-21 from The Book of Pat...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xOrgLj9lOwk
Big Grin


Now back on topic re: painting rifles--is there a point at which the different-colored patches might be too small and consequently blend together if you're more than a certain distance away? I would think that a super fine and detailed camo pattern of, suppose, grass, would just look like one solid patch of green if you're at carbine range. Is there any advantage to putting on a heavy-duty/baked tan base coat then painting over top of that with different color patches/OD blending or should I just go with the Aervoe from the start?


quote:
Originally posted by Pat_Rogers:
Brownish colors work almost everywhere (how many green animals have you seen?)


Hmmm--let's see...

A couple different varieties of snake, a ton of lizards (they're all over the place at HH6's parents' house), quite a few fish, my mother-in-law's an African Green Parrot (God only knows how much I'd like to see what a 5.56 round would do to that damn bird), and there has to be a few I've forgotten so green critters aren't completely unknown... Wink

---------------------------------------------------------------------

"Now with more death power!"

 

Joined: 3/22/09     Location:  'nooga

quote:
Originally posted by Pat _Rogers:
I was talking animals, not reptiles, birds, fish etc.
How many green bears, wolves, large cats, deer etc...

I spent time with the Crye Guys when MC came into being. I saw the data, so i'm not talking out of my ass on this.


Got it--I was just funnin' you a little... Razz

---------------------------------------------------------------------

"Now with more death power!"

 

Joined: 3/22/09     Location:  'nooga

Since the science of camo patterns seems to be continually evolving, this may not be valid next week.

As I understand it, the latest technology consists of micro and macro patterns. Micro color patterns break up the outline and contours at shorter distances and as the range increases, the smaller patterns combine to create a larger pattern that will also visually disturb the outlines, etc. Do a search for the ATACs camo pattern.

The problem most of us face is the ability to conceptualize the short and long range pictures and then do complex patterns if that is what you really want. I've seen patterns that look great inside of 20 feet. Blended edges, subtle shading into other colors, etc. But at 50', those nuances disappear and it looks almost one color, just not black. Alternatively, the large patterns with sharper delineations don't look very camouflaged up close, but at distance, it is difficult to discern the visual clues that identify it as a weapon.

Someone like Duke could probably draw up a large pattern and then some fractal pattern to create the large one.

Does anyone remember the "magic picture" craze a few years ago. You look at this picture that seemingly had all these random patterns & parts and suddenly a 3d image would leap out at you? That kind of thing, but more obvious.

-------------------------

Mark

Swear allegiance to the flag Whatever flag they offer

Never hint at what you really feel

Teach the children quietly For some day sons and daughters

Will rise up and fight while we stood still

 

Joined:  2/24/2003                          Location:  Nevada, USA

The following is from a very experienced Shooter on Alumni.net>
I agree completely with his observations on alumahyde.
I tried it and it didn't work. Thought it was me.
Tried it again, with the same results.
I shitcanned all of the alumahyde and use only the Aervoe now.

===============================================


Alumahyde takes about 10 extra minutes of shaking and mixing, whereas Krylon takes about 30 seconds. Another issue with Alumahyde is the consistency in application, meaning the pattern of the spray changes and varies throughout using it, leading to beading or runs in the paint as it goes on...........unless of course you stop every four passes to shake the can for another 5 minutes. Spray paint only needs a few shakes every 5 minutes. I could care less about having a run, or drips in the paint, but when it drips and dries in spots with critical moving parts, that can be an issue. Cleaning the nozzle's is also a pain, but absolutely necessary if you intend to use your $15.00 a can paint more than once.

The colors are not all that great either. There is a sand/tan color that has a nice pink tint to it (don't recall exactly which color as I do not have it handy), and the O.D. Green looks like the color of Kermit the Frog. Oh it is green alright, but far from Olive Drab. If your AO is covered in cartoon lilly pads, it would probably work well.

The last reason I no longer use Alumahyde..........it costs 3 times as much as spray paint and doesn't do anything better. In high wear area's, it will wear off just like regular old spray paint does. Like spray paint, I store it in my garage which can get pretty hot and humid in the summer, and downright cold in the winter. Storing it in these conditions doesn't seem to help it's consistency issues much, though that is just an observation without any scientific data to back it up. For one can of Alumahyde, I can buy three can's of Krylon, Rustoleum, or Aervoe, and I don't have to pay for shipping as all three can be had at the local hardware store.

And of course, spray paint dries faster.
quote:
Originally posted by CPTSpaulding:
Another bit of arcana cluttering my brain is the recollection that FDE may not be one of the "357 unique color shades" defined in Fed-Std 595 - in the same way, "coyote brown" was originally the name of a designer house paint color, and may not be a Fed-Std 595 color; and the USMC name for the Fed-Std 595 color started out as "Mojave brown" - the Marines will correct me if that's not current good info.


You are correct. Unfortunately, no one ever bothered to standardize them. Coyote Brown 498 is very close, if not identical to, FS 30118 (Dark Earth or Field Drab). The "color" Flat Dark Earth has become any shade between Sand and Coyote Brown, but does not have an official FS color assigned to it that I have found. It is close to FS30277, but is not called out as FDE (Flat Sand or some such I believe).

Back to non-color geek programming...

Stephen
Good info.
------------------------------

"Its not about shooting, its about fighting with a gun." -Pat Rogers


The answer to 1984 is 1776.

"I prefer evil sits in daylight for all to see rather than be hidden, forgotten about and possibly repeated." -Consigliere
quote:
Originally posted by Riafdnal:
Thanks Pat, this is exactly what I have been looking for.

Paint is on the way.


Shouldn't you be painting your new one's room or something? Big Grin

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Never BTDT, but always willing to face shoot a bad guy....

quote:
Originally posted by Riafdnal:
Thanks Pat, this is exactly what I have been looking for.

Paint is on the way.


I thought you were grounded from buying anything gun related again for awhile?!?! Big Grin

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ "The best things in life are beyond money; their price is agony and sweat and devotion . . . and the price demanded for the most precious of all things in life is life itself - ultimate cost for perfect value." - Jean V. Dubois, Lt. Col., M.I., rtd. - Robert A. Heinlein's Starship Troopers

quote:
Originally posted by madkow:
quote:
Originally posted by Riafdnal:
Thanks Pat, this is exactly what I have been looking for.

Paint is on the way.


Shouldn't you be painting your new one's room or something? Big Grin


Yes, her room will be painted in PatCam.

There's no charge for awesomeness or attractiveness.

 

Join Date: 11/18/07

Location: Northern Utah

Also on topic re: painting rifles, do you mask off the aperture on the rear sight and the front sight post so they stay black? I tried mocking it up today with a light (yellow Post-It, specifically) rear sight and it was hard to center up the black front post in an aperture that somewhat blended in with the target/background color.

---------------------------------------------------------------------

"Now with more death power!"

 

Joined: 3/22/09     Location:  'nooga

That's purty Pat. Well done.
---------------------------------- THEY ARE NOT WORTHY OF YOUR CONCERN AND TRUTH BE TOLD – IN THE PIT OF THEIR COWARDLY HEARTS – THEY WISH THEY COULD BE LIKE YOU. LTC Randolph C. White Jr Have a very SF day.© ἤ τᾶν ἤ ἐπί τᾶς
What a great how-to Pat, thanks again for letting me use this as an article/write-up!



quote:
Originally posted by jvencius:
Also on topic re: painting rifles, do you mask off the aperture on the rear sight and the front sight post so they stay black?


I can tell you on my front flip-up I keep the backside painted black. I have tried it painted as well but it's real hard to catch so I have painted mine black as that's what works for me.

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"I don't need an edge. I fought in two wars...hell I killed people and I'm not saying I didn't enjoy it!" -Red Foreman

Well between Duke's painting write up last year (?) and now Pat's DIY... I gave "Hate" some rattle can lovin last night.
Thanks for the DIY guide Pat... Pis posted in the "I blame Stephen..." thread so as not to clutter yours.
See ya in a few weeks.

"Freedom Isn't Free"
*R*
"Into the darkness go the young & fearless, out of the fires come warriors forged of fire, blood and steel.  Never letting it be said again that the world was not free nor that it was not theirs for the taking"
LF since 2004 and 2006...

Attachments

Photos (1)
Here's the color comparison pic to my MC Peltor headband from CAPNTROY

"Freedom Isn't Free"
*R*
"Into the darkness go the young & fearless, out of the fires come warriors forged of fire, blood and steel.  Never letting it be said again that the world was not free nor that it was not theirs for the taking"
LF since 2004 and 2006...

Attachments

Photos (1)
Pat... I'm hoping you don't know something I don't know. I got my class confirmation email from Donna on Friday. Should I be concerned?

Mounted back cause that's where I am used to it. Never tried pushing it out... But I'm always willing to try out a new approach

ENOLS43- I'll take a pic of the cans for ya (Krylon sucks at labeling their cans)

"Freedom Isn't Free"
*R*
"Into the darkness go the young & fearless, out of the fires come warriors forged of fire, blood and steel.  Never letting it be said again that the world was not free nor that it was not theirs for the taking"
LF since 2004 and 2006...

Stupid question for the day, if one is not happy with the final product, how does one strip the various parts of the weapon? Can you ever get it back to the original colour? I assume you can always strip the metal parts and re-finish? The plastic components? Replace?

Edit - re worded question, when you say "tape" lights, are you talking about basic old style masking tape?

KBK

"Run by duffers.....they tend to amplify mistakes." " It a very cool, very fun, very awesome piece of shit."

 

Location Cape Town, South Africa

 

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