Painting Your Carbine- from the Book of Pat

Instead of camo netting (which works just fine), I've been fond of using a sniper veil (I think that's what it's called....OD mesh fabric, about 3x5 feet, with tie points at the corners). It gives a differnt, "snakeskin" look that still works reasonably well to my completely amatuer eyes.

Great post, Pat. Now I need to shitcan all my Krylon and buy better paint.

I'd rather be a conservative nutjob than a liberal with no nuts and no job.

quote:
Originally posted by Kayback:
Stupid question for the day, if one is not happy with the final product, how does one strip the various parts of the weapon? Can you ever get it back to the original colour? I assume you can always strip the metal parts and re-finish? The plastic components? Replace?

Edit - re worded question, when you say "tape" lights, are you talking about basic old style masking tape?

KBK


Be particular in that blue tape. Target, WalMart, Lowes; you want "SCOTCH 3M PAINTERS TAPE FOR MULTI-SURFACES #2090".

It has the minmum amount of adhesive while still adhering the surface during painting.

Also; BRAKE CLEANER will clear most paint off with minimal fuss. 2 cans will be MORE than sufficient -do it OUTDOORS, and do it with plent of rags and a scrub-brush of non-abrasive type to get nooks and crannys. (Not "trannys", Winn. Wink )

Also, for a stencil -and don't smirk --fishnet stockings. The stocking material will stretch around the gun, (you can use one leg per gun, if you want) it is terrific at varying the pattern of stencil, which aids to further break up outlines.

YMMV.



Close-up of the effect:
------------------------------

"Its not about shooting, its about fighting with a gun." -Pat Rogers


The answer to 1984 is 1776.

"I prefer evil sits in daylight for all to see rather than be hidden, forgotten about and possibly repeated." -Consigliere
quote:
You are correct. Unfortunately, no one ever bothered to standardize them. Coyote Brown 498 is very close, if not identical to, FS 30118 (Dark Earth or Field Drab). The "color" Flat Dark Earth has become any shade between Sand and Coyote Brown, but does not have an official FS color assigned to it that I have found. It is close to FS30277, but is not called out as FDE (Flat Sand or some such I believe).


Roger Stephan, and that is what i use for my Base Coat-30277, Aervoe Sand.
It is close....
Duke,
SERIOUSLY MEANING NO DISRESPECT: I'm wondering if the fishnet effect really adds any significant camo/breakup effect at anything beyond close-quarters distance (i.e., is it more trouble than it is worth from a strictly-functional perspective?).

Aubrey<><

quote:
Originally posted by Impact:
beside brownells and DSG, who carries AERVOE online ? ATS should start selling a "camo your own rifle" kit with the colors mentioned Big Grin

great write up Pat. thanks.

I had a similar thought. I only need ONE can of each color, and neither of the two companies mentioned above have the Matte Clear from what I saw. I also could never use 12 cans of Matte Clear in the rest of my entire life, which is the quantity in which Aervoe sells them.

An "Official Pat Rogers Camo Paint Kit" would be a good way for people to get one kit with just what you need and nothing else.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

“The two highest achievements of the human mind are the twin concepts of “loyalty” and “duty.” Whenever these twin concepts fall into disrepute – get out of there fast! You may possibly save yourself, but it is too late to save that society. It is doomed.”

- Robert A. Heinlein

 

Joined: 4/22/09          Location: WI

quote:
Originally posted by Aubrey:
Duke,
SERIOUSLY MEANING NO DISRESPECT: I'm wondering if the fishnet effect really adds any significant camo/breakup effect at anything beyond close-quarters distance (i.e., is it more trouble than it is worth from a strictly-functional perspective?).


Nature doesn't have blobs --it has rough, scratchy, semi-obscured blobs. Brown soil, behind green grass and jagged dry light brown leaves.

This does the saame as any other netting or mesh -except this has varied widths, vs. uniform widths of a mesh bag. Same effect, more variety.

And -it looks like snike skin, so I like that. Personal preferance. 'Any break up helps the makeup'.
------------------------------

"Its not about shooting, its about fighting with a gun." -Pat Rogers


The answer to 1984 is 1776.

"I prefer evil sits in daylight for all to see rather than be hidden, forgotten about and possibly repeated." -Consigliere
quote:
Originally posted by Kayback:
Stupid question for the day, if one is not happy with the final product, how does one strip the various parts of the weapon? Can you ever get it back to the original colour? I assume you can always strip the metal parts and re-finish? The plastic components? Replace?

Edit - re worded question, when you say "tape" lights, are you talking about basic old style masking tape?

KBK


Acetone is also good for stripping the paint off and cleaning/degreasing the metal prior to painting. And like Duke said, plenty of rags and a scrub brush are a necessity.
quote:
Originally posted by Rob_Frey:
quote:
Originally posted by Impact:
beside brownells and DSG, who carries AERVOE online ? ATS should start selling a "camo your own rifle" kit with the colors mentioned Big Grin

great write up Pat. thanks.

I had a similar thought. I only need ONE can of each color, and neither of the two companies mentioned above have the Matte Clear from what I saw. I also could never use 12 cans of Matte Clear in the rest of my entire life, which is the quantity in which Aervoe sells them.

An "Official Pat Rogers Camo Paint Kit" would be a good way for people to get one kit with just what you need and nothing else.


My purchases from Aervoe have been a min quantity of six (6).
While i understand this is still to many for you, try hitting some of the Mil Vehicle collectors w/s as their vendors may have options for you.
quote:
Originally posted by Pat _Rogers:
Hey- if you have the Krylon, run it There is better out there but don't throw it away...


I use krylon, netting from the surplus store, and wire to hang the rifle from ladder:



so far it holds up ok. it wears out kinda fast on the heavy contact areas (stock, grip, VFG) but satisfactory everywhere else. I had to touch up an upper when I changed barrel, and it blends/covers up just fine
For muzzle devices that will be (eventually, once we leave CA) used to mount a suppressor, do you mask them off or paint them along with the rest of the barrel? I'm not sure how precise the interface between an Ops-Inc. 12th and the centering collar/muzzle brake needs to be, but if the thickness of a coat of paint/clearcoat will interfere and consequently damage the tube or a really damned expensive can, I'll make sure to put some tape on those bits before breaking out the rattlecan.

---------------------------------------------------------------------

"Now with more death power!"

 

Joined: 3/22/09     Location:  'nooga

quote:
Originally posted by jvencius:
For muzzle devices that will be (eventually, once we leave CA) used to mount a suppressor, do you mask them off or paint them along with the rest of the barrel? I'm not sure how precise the interface between an Ops-Inc. 12th and the centering collar/muzzle brake needs to be, but if the thickness of a coat of paint/clearcoat will interfere and consequently damage the tube or a really damned expensive can, I'll make sure to put some tape on those bits before breaking out the rattlecan.


My advice would be to mask them off.

Stephen
quote:
Originally posted by Stephen:
quote:
Originally posted by jvencius:
For muzzle devices that will be (eventually, once we leave CA) used to mount a suppressor, do you mask them off or paint them along with the rest of the barrel? I'm not sure how precise the interface between an Ops-Inc. 12th and the centering collar/muzzle brake needs to be, but if the thickness of a coat of paint/clearcoat will interfere and consequently damage the tube or a really damned expensive can, I'll make sure to put some tape on those bits before breaking out the rattlecan.


My advice would be to mask them off.

Stephen


Agreed.

I had my SF brake painted, and sure enough it started smoking. I thought it was just smoking from the disharging; but after M4Guru immediately removed it for me (the paint), and explained why -I did the facepalm. The paint was starting to burn off.

Live and learn.
------------------------------

"Its not about shooting, its about fighting with a gun." -Pat Rogers


The answer to 1984 is 1776.

"I prefer evil sits in daylight for all to see rather than be hidden, forgotten about and possibly repeated." -Consigliere
quote:
Originally posted by Duke:
quote:
Originally posted by Stephen:
quote:
Originally posted by jvencius:
For muzzle devices that will be (eventually, once we leave CA) used to mount a suppressor, do you mask them off or paint them along with the rest of the barrel? I'm not sure how precise the interface between an Ops-Inc. 12th and the centering collar/muzzle brake needs to be, but if the thickness of a coat of paint/clearcoat will interfere and consequently damage the tube or a really damned expensive can, I'll make sure to put some tape on those bits before breaking out the rattlecan.


My advice would be to mask them off.

Stephen


Agreed.

I had my SF brake painted, and sure enough it started smoking. I thought it was just smoking from the disharging; but after M4Guru immediately removed it for me (the paint), and explained why -I did the facepalm. The paint was starting to burn off.

Live and learn.


So, you had a smokey discharge? I think they make a cream for that now...
My first attempt using this excellent write up will be on my Echo1 G36K airsoft, and then my AR.

Thanks for the information Pat and everyone!
Those afraid of the universe as it really is, those who pretend to nonexistent knowledge and envision a Cosmos centered on human beings will prefer the fleeting comforts of superstition. They avoid rather than confront the world. But those with the courage to explore the weave and structure of the Cosmos, even where it differs profoundly from their wishes and prejudices, will penetrate its deepest mysteries. — Carl Sagan
quote:
Originally posted by Pat _Rogers:
Duke- were you running a can?
I have never had the paint burn off the FS or the barrel.
Taht is the FH will blacken from the discharge etc, but not burn.
Then agai, i don't run cans...


Pat, no; and not any part of the barrel or FS --just the brake itself. The HBAR barrel heated up to the point were I melted a portion of some non-FR gloves, too.
------------------------------

"Its not about shooting, its about fighting with a gun." -Pat Rogers


The answer to 1984 is 1776.

"I prefer evil sits in daylight for all to see rather than be hidden, forgotten about and possibly repeated." -Consigliere
quote:
Originally posted by Stephen:
quote:
Originally posted by Duke:
quote:
Originally posted by Stephen:
quote:
Originally posted by jvencius:
For muzzle devices that will be (eventually, once we leave CA) used to mount a suppressor, do you mask them off or paint them along with the rest of the barrel? I'm not sure how precise the interface between an Ops-Inc. 12th and the centering collar/muzzle brake needs to be, but if the thickness of a coat of paint/clearcoat will interfere and consequently damage the tube or a really damned expensive can, I'll make sure to put some tape on those bits before breaking out the rattlecan.


My advice would be to mask them off.

Stephen


Agreed.

I had my SF brake painted, and sure enough it started smoking. I thought it was just smoking from the disharging; but after M4Guru immediately removed it for me (the paint), and explained why -I did the facepalm. The paint was starting to burn off.

Live and learn.


So, you had a smokey discharge? I think they make a cream for that now...


Don't judge me.
------------------------------

"Its not about shooting, its about fighting with a gun." -Pat Rogers


The answer to 1984 is 1776.

"I prefer evil sits in daylight for all to see rather than be hidden, forgotten about and possibly repeated." -Consigliere
quote:
Originally posted by Duke:
quote:
Originally posted by Aubrey:
Duke,
SERIOUSLY MEANING NO DISRESPECT: I'm wondering if the fishnet effect really adds any significant camo/breakup effect at anything beyond close-quarters distance (i.e., is it more trouble than it is worth from a strictly-functional perspective?).


Nature doesn't have blobs --it has rough, scratchy, semi-obscured blobs. Brown soil, behind green grass and jagged dry light brown leaves.

This does the saame as any other netting or mesh -except this has varied widths, vs. uniform widths of a mesh bag. Same effect, more variety.

And -it looks like snike skin, so I like that. Personal preferance. 'Any break up helps the makeup'.


Duke,
Copy on that. Thanks for the feedback.

Aubrey<><

quote:
Originally posted by Duke:

Also, for a stencil -and don't smirk --fishnet stockings. The stocking material will stretch around the gun, (you can use one leg per gun, if you want) it is terrific at varying the pattern of stencil, which aids to further break up outlines.

YMMV.



Close-up of the effect:


Duke - Just curious...doesn't your wife get a little ticked off when her stockings keep disappearing?
GRAVITY - It's not just a good idea. It's the law.
Carol,
What the hell are you talking about?


Those are Dukes.

__________________________

"Have a vision not clouded by fear." A Cherokee proverb "I know nothing except the fact of my ignorance." Socrates

 

Joined: 2005                                Location: Georgia

Don't judge me.
------------------------------

"Its not about shooting, its about fighting with a gun." -Pat Rogers


The answer to 1984 is 1776.

"I prefer evil sits in daylight for all to see rather than be hidden, forgotten about and possibly repeated." -Consigliere
Originally posted by Pat Rogers: "Brownish colors work almost everywhere (how many green animals have you seen?)"

Sir Pat -

Thanks for the post. Good stuff. I've not seen many green animals but, I've shot a bunch of the brown ones. Mostly the target indicator was movement, not color. Just sayin...

Best regards from the Big Empty. ELN

----------

 Stronger than yesterday.

As I told Pat via PM, my roommate does the color matching for the military camo line at Aerove. Here a few things he mentioned to me:

  • If you don't want to buy in bulk, there are camo kits available. However, they are designed to reproduce ACU, MARPAT, or desert MARPAT, and come with the corresponding colors. You can purchase them with or without a digital stencil to actually recreate these patterns. This link is for the kits without the stencil: http://www.aervoe.com/paints_c...tern-Camo-Paint.html
  • Pat provided the link for the matte clear paint, but I was cautioned that this is not designed for the military and doesn't have the low IR characteristics that are required of the military camo paints. This might not matter for a personal weapon or maybe even an LEO duty weapon, but I wouldn't use it for a weapon that includes use in combat. He did mention that they are trying to implement this feature in a future matte clear paint.
  • As far as getting matte clear in singles, he said there is a dealer on the east coast that sells them and is inquiring to get their information. I'll post it if/when I receive it for your use.

I hope this is helpful.

-------- If you want the ultimate, you've got to be willing to pay the ultimate price. It's not tragic to die doing what you love.

quote:
Originally posted by Steve Z:
As I told Pat via PM, my roommate does the color matching for the military camo line at Aerove. Here a few things he mentioned to me:

  • If you don't want to buy in bulk, there are camo kits available. However, they are designed to reproduce ACU, MARPAT, or desert MARPAT, and come with the corresponding colors. You can purchase them with or without a digital stencil to actually recreate these patterns. This link is for the kits without the stencil: http://www.aervoe.com/paints_c...tern-Camo-Paint.html
  • Pat provided the link for the matte clear paint, but I was cautioned that this is not designed for the military and doesn't have the low IR characteristics that are required of the military camo paints. This might not matter for a personal weapon or maybe even an LEO duty weapon, but I wouldn't use it for a weapon that includes use in combat. He did mention that they are trying to implement this feature in a future matte clear paint.
  • As far as getting matte clear in singles, he said there is a dealer on the east coast that sells them and is inquiring to get their information. I'll post it if/when I receive it for your use.

I hope this is helpful.

Thanks for the info. It looks to me like you have to buy 3 camo kits to place an order, if I'm reading the website correctly.

The info on the other dealer will be most welcome.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

“The two highest achievements of the human mind are the twin concepts of “loyalty” and “duty.” Whenever these twin concepts fall into disrepute – get out of there fast! You may possibly save yourself, but it is too late to save that society. It is doomed.”

- Robert A. Heinlein

 

Joined: 4/22/09          Location: WI

Ed- and that is my point exactly.

I see deer and other critters every day here in VA.

Movement is the #1 Target Indicator.

When i do the Dog walks in the woods i spend a lot of time scanning.
Depending on the wind and self induced noise my first indication that there are deer close by is movement. Walking, head movement etc.

But up until that time, and past 20m, they are near unseeable in the lush, verdant environment.

Would a green critter be more or less visible?
Beats me, but the 4 legged guys are mostly brown for a reason.

And yeah, i know elephants are gtrey. but i rarely see them on m Dog walks....

Big Grin
Bring your dog over, we can take it for a walk here in Africa Razz

(to be honest the nearest elephant is like 600km away, but still)

Showing my nerd side again, would brush on masking like one uses for masking model work?

I ask specifically about model masking because I have found them to be "gummier" than liquid painters masking, and probably easier to use.

"Run by duffers.....they tend to amplify mistakes." " It a very cool, very fun, very awesome piece of shit."

 

Location Cape Town, South Africa

 

I've got a friend who works for a gun manufacturer and he applies a camouflage coating to guns.

Example:



Would this be something I would want? It looks excellent, but I have no real experience in judging effectiveness here.
Those afraid of the universe as it really is, those who pretend to nonexistent knowledge and envision a Cosmos centered on human beings will prefer the fleeting comforts of superstition. They avoid rather than confront the world. But those with the courage to explore the weave and structure of the Cosmos, even where it differs profoundly from their wishes and prejudices, will penetrate its deepest mysteries. — Carl Sagan
Why do black guns stand out in the bush but black bears dont? Is it that their hair gives depth and thus helping them stay concealed. If thats the case if someone wanted to keep their weapon black would it be possible to mimick the bears shading?

I once tracked one and prit near walked into him. I thought I was paying attention untill he let out a grrrrrrr. Now I let my walker hound do the tracking Smile
Lava Dog till I die. "That is, we should be constantly training for war." Pat Rogers

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