Painting Your Carbine- from the Book of Pat

Pat gives good advice; considering my experience with Krylon and Rustoleum products and their quick ability to rub off with hard use...I have several cans of Aervoe on the way.

Knowing what I went through about 8-9 years ago in painting my first weapon (duty weapon, 700P), I think there are many guys here that are probably terrified of painting their stick.

At the time, I was cursed with a boss who said that paint would "ruin" the rifle. Good grief. So, a big camo blob moving along with a shiny black rifle won't get me killed or nothing, right?

Seems to me that it takes more time to tape up the parts you don't want painted than it takes to actually paint the weapon. With optics and exposed e/w dials covered...you just gotta plunge into the base coat.

I was terrified the first time I did it...having a guy waiting to say "see, you ruined it" makes you a little froggy to squirt the first shot. Once the first spray is done, you're committed, so drive on. Don't get too close and if paint starts to run, you're too close.

Being outside in the sun, great idea. About two months ago, we painted 12 carbines, shotguns, a few helmets and about 30 black Pmags. Hot outside and sun beating down....literally, spray it down with base coat and within a minute, you could pick it up.

I don't go for templates that are sold; I like MARPAT in clothing, but not so uniform looking as that. You don't want it to look like a camo rifle, you want it to look like nothing.

The expensive airbrush systems and dips that are sold for a couple hundred dollars...well, being a cheap-cop bastard, as long as spray on stuff comes in a $6 can and I don't need an airbrush, a need to mix one chemical into another, put any paint covered part into the OVEN and/or wait a week to touch it, I will continue to go that route.

I'm hoping Aervoe holds up better than the Krylon we've been using. Bouncing off gear, rubbing on doors or just plain ol' handling is taking paint off now.

VJ

-----------------------------
Modern era LE: I am the pinkie band-aid for the sucking chest wound of society.

quote:
Originally posted by Kayback:
Bring your dog over, we can take it for a walk here in Africa Razz

(to be honest the nearest elephant is like 600km away, but still)

Showing my nerd side again, would brush on masking like one uses for masking model work?

I ask specifically about model masking because I have found them to be "gummier" than liquid painters masking, and probably easier to use.

I was in SA circa 89. Loved it. Won't go back.

If you look at the tutorial, i don't mask for paint- just to avoid painting the lens of the SF Light.

So, the answer is no, it has no relevance to this tutorial.
Pat much thx for posting this.

My old school all black carbine might just have to get painted since you showed how easy it is.

My brother painted up his AK following more or less the same method (he's more 'handy' than I am at stuff like this) in solid tan with black handguards, he's been contemplating redoing it, I'll be sending him the link.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

So low speed, i'm in Park.

"I could stand to hear a little more.." Jayne

Training is brief. Death is forever. PAY ATTENTION.

Joined: 6/14/03 1:02 PM

A few issues with pattern-heavy camo painting styles:

-1) what happens when it's not in that envrionment?

-2)why not do a baseline, multicam-ish set up intentionally to by multi-environment friendly?

*I set up an M4 black shape, including my DD RIS rail and T1 on my art software, and tried out different patterns, including the Desert Storm I grid-night-camo.

Didn't work. The pattern was fine (still is) but for what its intended use is --night.

A flat set of faded earth-tone tan into earth-tone green, and reverse, with variated rough blobs of complimentary colors that will break up the outline in as many environments as possible is the goal -as I understand it.

Now, it will stand out inside a mall, if you have to go remove someone who decided to burn down the checkout line at JC Penny's, but outside it's gonna rule.

That's my $0.02.
------------------------------

"Its not about shooting, its about fighting with a gun." -Pat Rogers


The answer to 1984 is 1776.

"I prefer evil sits in daylight for all to see rather than be hidden, forgotten about and possibly repeated." -Consigliere
Guys- go back to the initial post...
I didn't want a pretty gun.
I didn't want to take the gun out of service for a long time, nor did i want to spend a lot of money.
This is a 20 minute job that costs (in actual paint expended) maybe $3-4.00

I have been doing this for maybe 10 years, and am pretty satisfied with it.

I am not interested in water transfer, expensive paint jobs or pretty guns.
I posted the tutorial for that reason.

YMMV of course, but keep this on track please.
Man, you wanna freak out the sheep as an LEO...come out with a camo M4 on a call. The looks you get are priceless. Other department's admin eyes about pop out when we do training or warrants in their cities. I don't know, maybe we don't look as 'community-oriented'.

Pat, I trusted your judgement enough to order up the aervoe, I will have it re-painted by class time and we shall see how she holds up! Wink

VJ

-----------------------------
Modern era LE: I am the pinkie band-aid for the sucking chest wound of society.

Plan on doing this to the rifle before the upcoming WI class as well. Not trying to copy you VJ, but had this and the SWAT gear already bouncing around in my head. You just posted about it first.

I have not painted as many rifles/weapons as Pat but here is what I have learned

Krylon- The advantages to Krylon are that its cheap and relatively easy. It is also abundant and easy to get at the Wal Mart and Home improvement stores. However it is not durable. Use and some solvents will damage it. The colors one would use for this type of painting are limited and sometime labeled incorrectly. Try convincing one of your friends to finally paint his rifle and hand him a can of tan and gray/silver runs out.

Duracoat. More color variety than Krylon and more durable. I have only been able to order it online so it is not as ready as Krylon. The biggest negative is time and prep work. If you have the time its good. The better your prep the better your outcome. As far as durability. I painted a Clock 17 slide in Magpul FDE and over time is chipped in high wear areas. No real concern to me as the weapon still functioned. Application can be tricky. Compressed air is needed and that starts adding $$$. 24 to 48 hours is recommended before use.

AS far as getting Krylon off soaking in acetone and elbow grease works for me. Duracoat is a little tougher but can be done. Bead blasting or media blasting works but so does MEK. MEK is nasty caustic stuff so outside with plenty of ventilation is a must. Also some plastic parts will melt. Removed Duracoat from a Glock and used MEK. Did not let the frame soak overnite as I did with the slide but let it soak for about 5-10 minutes and then went to it with a knife scraping very carefully.

Hopefully this did not get too off topic.

LPD "People ask the difference between a leader and a boss. . . The leader works in the open, and the boss in covert. The leader leads, and the boss drives." - Theodore Roosevelt

quote:
Originally posted by Pat _Rogers:
If you look at the tutorial, i don't mask for paint- just to avoid painting the lens of the SF Light.

So, the answer is no, it has no relevance to this tutorial.


No I got that. Maybe I've been using liquid masking for the wrong reasons, but for model building it was mainly used to cover over cockpits and other clear areas to allow painting, while making sure to not leave any residue.

While I agree the tape is the easiest method I was just wondering if the liquid ones would also work.

But yeah, I'll probably use the tape. Thanks for the info.

KBK

"Run by duffers.....they tend to amplify mistakes." " It a very cool, very fun, very awesome piece of shit."

 

Location Cape Town, South Africa

 

I wonder if the Aervoe paint is anything like Bowflage? I bought a ton of Bowflage a few years ago and that's what I use. It's super easy like Pat's method and comes off easy if you want.

The only drawback is it's real thick. But it works and touch up is easy. When lube leaks out it takes off the Bowflage here and there. I usually just leave the streaks and touch up once a year or so.

Here's my LWRC shorty

quote:
Originally posted by az larry:
I wonder if the Aervoe paint is anything like Bowflage? I bought a ton of Bowflage a few years ago and that's what I use. It's super easy like Pat's method and comes off easy if you want.

The only drawback is it's real thick. But it works and touch up is easy. When lube leaks out it takes off the Bowflage here and there. I usually just leave the streaks and touch up once a year or so.

Here's my LWRC shorty



If Afrika Korps had M4s, they would have looked like that.
------------------------------

"Its not about shooting, its about fighting with a gun." -Pat Rogers


The answer to 1984 is 1776.

"I prefer evil sits in daylight for all to see rather than be hidden, forgotten about and possibly repeated." -Consigliere
quote:
If Afrika Korps had M4s, they would have looked like that.


Yep, it looks like North Africa here Smile

$30 from Brownells and I'll have a hopefully thinner and longer lasting camo job......with a little less green since we don't have that much green here!
I broke down and painted one of my older blasters as a test run. I followed Pat's suggestions pretty closely, I noted a few things, for those using aervoe paint it seems not to like the early afternoon humidity here the coating was very thick and fuzzy compared to the little test spray I did at work in a very cool and dry room under a vent hood. I think less is definitely more when it comes the painting and patterning as I kept spraying stuff rather than leaving alone. I may hose it down later with brake cleaner apply what learned in this attempt.
Quote 1 - JB Bowles

quote:
I think less is definitely more when it comes the painting and patterning as I kept spraying stuff rather than leaving alone.


Quote 2 - Pat Rogers

quote:
Mist the gun with this paint. Use broad strokes to lightly cover the entire gun. Repeat with one or two more light coats.
Don’t look for 100% coverage and don’t use heavy coats of paint.


If more people just listened and followed Pat's instructions the first time, there probably wouldn't need to be so many re-do's...
You need to have the spray nozzle back/above the gun at minimum of 20", preferably more -no matter what paint you use -

-and-

-the can/nozzle needs to be in motion side-to-side before you start spraying, or else where you start/press the nozzle will be thicker and stands the chance to be a runny circle.

RTFM.
------------------------------

"Its not about shooting, its about fighting with a gun." -Pat Rogers


The answer to 1984 is 1776.

"I prefer evil sits in daylight for all to see rather than be hidden, forgotten about and possibly repeated." -Consigliere
I pulled the rifle out of sun, and I'm pretty darn satisfied with it now.

It's not black and its not a solid shade of tan, and aside from cleaning/degreasing I only spent 15 minutes or so outside spraying it. I have learned a fair bit for next time, so mission accomplished.

As Duke correctly assumed I was only spraying from about 12" away.

I did a good job of spraying broad and light but that all goes out the window when you start dicking with it by spraying it with a little more OD then a little more tan and some more brown.
quote:
Originally posted by JBowles:
I pulled the rifle out of sun, and I'm pretty darn satisfied with it now.

It's not black and its not a solid shade of tan, and aside from cleaning/degreasing I only spent 15 minutes or so outside spraying it. I have learned a fair bit for next time, so mission accomplished.

As Duke correctly assumed I was only spraying from about 12" away.

I did a good job of spraying broad and light but that all goes out the window when you start dicking with it by spraying it with a little more OD then a little more tan and some more brown.


------------------------------

"Its not about shooting, its about fighting with a gun." -Pat Rogers


The answer to 1984 is 1776.

"I prefer evil sits in daylight for all to see rather than be hidden, forgotten about and possibly repeated." -Consigliere
I like to take my rifles apart for the base coat. I then let it dry and then reassemble it. I then apply the "pattern" coats while it is completely assembled. I want to make sure that my thick base coat does not interferer with operation in any way. I figure better safe than sorry.
Am looking for Aervoe Sand977, for my base coat. I am planning to follow your advice as closely as I am able.
Thanks Pat, I find I learn every time I read your threads (starting with what breaks on a carbine). I like the results your method allows.
Great info...
Lifetime NRA member
quote:
Originally posted by Pat _Rogers:
Unsure why you want a thick basecoat...

It adds nothing, and makes life more difficult.

I've done over 50 M4's etc, and we have never had a problem with amy parts having problems working.


I use Aluma-Hyde II as a base because it lasts longer. I have found that straight Krylon just does not hold up very good and you end up putting a great deal of coats on it because of hard use. The base coat of Aluma-Hyde II also protects the gun from all of those usual nicks and stuff that rifles get during everyday use. I then use Krylon as the top colors because it is fast and east. The top layers can also be touched up for different areas in the camo needs to be changed.
Copy..
However, i no longer use either alumahyde or krylon, as noted in previous posts.

Alumahyde has many negative issues, as does krylon..

I use Aervoe as it is the best alternative.

As stated in the original post, the purpose of the tutorial was to show *my* way of doing it, and my methodology.

My original comments are below.

================================================

We get a lot of questions about this, and we see a lot of people who spend a lot of money to have their carbine painted.
The reason for painting is to make the gun less visible. Black is the absolute worst color for a gun. It makes the gun more visible in both day or night.
A single earth tone color will partially accomplish this. Blending several of these colors together is better still.
Spending a lot of money for decals that replicate patterns (digital or otherwise) are expensive and certainly make the gun pretty.
However, they may not provide better camouflage than other methods.

Our priorities are:
Make the gun less visible
Minimal amount of time with the gun out of service
Minimal cost
Easy to retouch

We use only Aervoe paint. We find the Aervoe to be more true to color specs and be more durable. Aervoe is available at some of the larger gun supply sites.
===============================================

Understand about wear and touch up, but...
Alumahyde requires time, is expensive and requires heavy coats, none of which were in my playbook.

I'll touch up as it wears, but any finish- paint, anodizing, nickel etc will wear.

If it works for you, rock on.
But that is not what this thread is about.
I'm colorblind, so ordering Aervoe offline would have probably had me with a red and green camo'd rifle. I went to Wally World and picked up some Krylon based on what others have used.
I used Duke's fishnet method and it turned out pretty well IMO.
I'll post pics in the Stephen blame thread.

Thanks for the advice guys.
Joined: 3/2/10          Location: Cincinnati, OH

Add Reply

Likes (29)
Decoy3RobertTheTexanParker7887theceegeUnknownSailorSteven301GLOCK10MMMCorbinnomanhyperionjk9559CallMeShooterDesert DiverJack WC WalleyNaestpdavisBadmax18alphableak83YourNightmareBig Beesmith4MuttdudeWhootsinatorGoFaster775Beat TrashMOJONIXONTXHUTCHbigcOB
Copyright Lightfighter Tactical Forum 2002-2016
×
×
×
×
×