Primary weapon systems

I'm a regular guy looking to pick up an ar10 style rifle with no experience with this caliber, and only civilian exposure to ar15's of my own and friends'. I am looking for a good value rifle that is versatile, robust, and hopefully domestically sourced. The rifle would be primarily for recreation (3 gun, target shooting), but I would also like for it to be flexible enough to hunt, etc with.  I have an Lwrc 5.56 and like the function, finish, and ergonomics of the rifle.  Searching through the Internet I saw the repr and liked the piston action, but the lack of a charging handle puts me off (along with the $3k+ price). I like the lmt 308 modular rifle, but some internet types have said recently their rifles have arrived looking used, dropped, etc straight from the factory. That, and the lack of a written warranty make me hesitant on lmt (no disrespect meant, as I've read overwhelmingly positive results of customers being made whole when issues come up with their lmt rifles. I just prefer the peace of mind having something in writing along with that result). Primary weapon systems has a long stroke 7.62 that looks like a good value for what you pay, but I cannot find anything online from an unbiased source regarding the rifle or the company.  I have seen a compensator review on lf from 2007 when the same company was called ak customs I believe, but that is all I could find. Any information about a sub $3k ar10 I haven't listed or direct experience with the primary weapon systems brand would be most appreciated. I thank you in advance for your time and insight in helping me with this decision.

Original Post

I've only handled the PWS once and honestly cant remember my opinion on it. I have had some good experience with the S&W MP10. We've built a few out at the shop that have won competitions. Stock, its a decent rifle for the applications you described. It starts around the 1500 range. You can free float the barrel and change the stock and grip to suit your needs. Decent glass and you're gtg.

Because...........Malinois 

From your post I gather these are your requirements:
-Maneuverable (less mass out front to transition from target to target more quickly).
-Medium/light weight (want precision for target shooting, but want to be light enough to take hunting).
-Piston operated.
-Strong customer service/warranty.
-<$3k cost.

Your intuition that the PWS MK2 fits your requirements seems pretty solid to me. I own a MK216, as well as an MWS, and I generally prefer the MK216.  The MK216 is easier to handle, accurate enough (can produce 1MOA groups), and can reach out there (I've taken mine to 1000yds, which my MWS with 16", SS, 1:11.25" twist barrel can't do).

For better or worse, I can say that PWS' CS is top notch and a pleasure to work with. I purchased my MK216 mod1 the first year they were available, and like buying a new model car, it's had its growing pains, mostly related to a tight chamber. My MK216 has gone back to PWS three times, and even though I had made a bad modification to it once (replaced the EBT with a VLTOR A5 tube to get a shorter LOP and didn't realize that the shoulder on PWS' carrier extends further back than the majority of other .308 AR's carriers, which cause it to collide with the receiver extension wall) they still happily serviced the rifle for the primary issue, which was not related to my mod. Parts that PWS has replaced for me are the bolt, firing pin, firing pin retaining pin, and barrel. They've paid shipping both ways every time, and are the best company I've dealt with in communication and openness.

Some of the life cycle improvements that have been made are going to an NP3 coated BCG, moving from SI/Falkor Defense billet receivers to forged receivers, removing a radius in the corner where the firing pin hole is on the bolt face, and including a heavier buffer over a CAR buffer.

Look into the Daniel-Defense DD5V1. It's sub-$3000.  A friend and I recently bought them, and have been extremely happy with its performance. I have about 200 malfunction-free rounds through it so far.  I like the light-weight (~8 lbs), Key-Mod accessory mounting system, and the ease of cleaning the nickel-boron BCG. It handles well with a Trijicon MRO for CQB drills. With a 10X Mil-Dot scope, it holds 1-MOA out to 400 yards and  I intend to extend it out to 600 yards next outing. I've used a variety of ammo: SSA 175 gr, M118LR-175 gr, 165 gr Nosler Bal-Tip Reloads, and bulk 150 gr FMJ Reloads. No problems or complaints whatsoever...  only the cost of buying good ammo for it.

gasman719 posted:

I'm a regular guy looking to pick up an ar10 style rifle with no experience with this caliber, and only civilian exposure to ar15's of my own and friends'.

I hope you understand that while we have come a long way with the full-blooded AR-10/SR25 style rifles in recent years, it's not yet to the level of domestication of its 5.56/intermediate brother, the AR15.  A lot of folks have the incorrect assumption that they are going to hop right onto this platform and immediately start running and maintaining the gun like an M4 but have the accuracy and reach of a 308 bolt gun...not gonna happen. 

Granted, I am somewhat jaded on the concept from my personal experiences, but I have yet to see a platform that does not disappoint in at least some critical area...be it price, accuracy, reliability, serviceability, etc.  I would say get a little more specific on what you want the gun to do.  What's your criteria for accuracy?  How hard are you going to run it?  Is weight a critical aspect?  Be realistic about what you expect. 

The LMT MWS and the DD5V1 would probably be my 2 pics for someone who had to get in for under $3k.

@pointblank,

I understand that while they look similar and have similar working characteristics, they are indeed separate systems. The familiarity between the two is what I'm also seeking in lieu of the socom, fnar, etc platforms. The four points @plasman mentioned most closely approximate what I'm seeking. I thank you for your input and value your feedback. 

My only input in regard to PWS is in reference to the mk107 Diablo.  It has exceeded my expectations in terms of reliability and accuracy.  I have 2200 rounds through the gun.

jto

Southern Oregon, the redneck part...

Joined 2/28/11

pointblank4445 posted:
gasman719 posted:

I'm a regular guy looking to pick up an ar10 style rifle with no experience with this caliber, and only civilian exposure to ar15's of my own and friends'.

I hope you understand that while we have come a long way with the full-blooded AR-10/SR25 style rifles in recent years, it's not yet to the level of domestication of its 5.56/intermediate brother, the AR15.  A lot of folks have the incorrect assumption that they are going to hop right onto this platform and immediately start running and maintaining the gun like an M4 but have the accuracy and reach of a 308 bolt gun...not gonna happen. 

Granted, I am somewhat jaded on the concept from my personal experiences, but I have yet to see a platform that does not disappoint in at least some critical area...be it price, accuracy, reliability, serviceability, etc.  I would say get a little more specific on what you want the gun to do.  What's your criteria for accuracy?  How hard are you going to run it?  Is weight a critical aspect?  Be realistic about what you expect. 

The LMT MWS and the DD5V1 would probably be my 2 pics for someone who had to get in for under $3k.

OP, read the above a couple of times.  There is iron in his words.

I owned a REPR for a little bit but it was the very early one with the magazine feeding problem.  Nice gun when sorted though.

Been through a bunch of KAC SR-25s.  My SR-25K was a collector's item but didn't work for shit.  My 24" Obermeyer barreled SR-25 was awesome but I traded it to a mod here.  I miss it but it was a stationary gun.  Hard to run around with a 24" barrel.

My favorite gun on Earth is my LT OBR 16" that Mark made for me.  Accurate and reliable but heavy.  I tried to make a battle rifle out of it but the built in 20moa top rail was annoying.  Also, expensive.  The other .308s he makes are lighter but I can't buy one in CT so I'll never know how they run.

With all the M4 type carbines I have, if thing go truly south in my lifetime, I'm grabbing my HK91.  Heavy and weird ergos but accurate and above all reliable.  People would thank me for shooting them with it. It is that nice.

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Joined: 28 Nov 2004: 0037hrs        Location: The worst run state in the U.S

Con-Dude,    you have a way with the English language second only to the late great Will Rogers.   "People would thank me for shooting  them with it."    No one can say it like you.    Every time I laugh out loud  at my computer, you are in some way responsible.

On a somewhat more serious note;  Admittedly, I have not kept up with the .308 AR platform.  There are now more and more offerings. How interchangeable are the parts?    Is it like the 5.56 AR platform where most everything will fit most every?    Is it still too early in the .308  game such that the  various things (such as magazines)  are going to become "standardized"?

Bill, having gone through the headache of building an AR308 last year I can tell you it is too early. There are many parts that do interchange, but you need to probably look at a specific company's product representation in forums to see what compatibility issues others might be having. I would likely just buy a gun and factory parts to replace anything that would be a wear item. There is just not the level of support there yet. I think in time it will improve however, as it seem to be doing.

My blog on tactical health, fitness, and rehabilitation 

It is because men understand the concept of fear. The beast does not. Men take into consideration they may get hurt. The beast does not. The beast only knows attack what is in front of him and does not stop until it stops moving. He only knows that distinctive law of the jungle: eat or be eaten. -Shankle-

I second the Armalite Defender.  I have a friend that has been abusing one with shit ammo and it runs.  He changed out the buffer tube for  and the trigger.  Trigger was a SSA-E.  I just bought the M4gery Defender variant because I did not have a M4 anymore.  Everything was a middy or piston.  The only thing I would check if you get a Armalite Defender is change the trigger if you want and a new buffer tube because from research Armalite uses a 6061 buffer tube on their AR-15s I do not know about the AR10 but it could be the same. 

Jason0311 posted:

How is the PWS holding up? I may be in the 7.62 market.

Unfortunately, I haven't had a chance to take it for a spin yet.  I'll update when this changes.  I bought a few rounds of magtech 7.62 for rangework.  Apparently this is the very same ammo that is having issues per the reviews...that I didn't read until unpacking the boxes.  

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