Red Dot Sights for Handguns

Regarding milling the slide for the RMR, there is a LOT of quality work out there nowadays, and of course ATEI, L&M are two of the most popular.  Has anyone heard of, or seen any of the quality of work from either Battlewerx, or Precision Sydincate? 

Seeing photos of the work, and some video of the milling process is one thing, and it looks great, but proven performers are awesome also.  I like that the milling they are doing is CNC at an almost 1:1 to the size of the optic for a precise fit, and that they leave "posts" for the RMR to mount to, to ensure stability.   

I'm certain at this point, most reputable shops with good data and a CNC could turn out a slide without issue, but does anything besides price point drive the business to only a few shops?

LOCATION: IDAHO

Andrew Yersin posted:

Are they cutting it to your specific optic or a universal cut?

Most of the shops out there will mill the slide to your specific optic to achieve as close as possible the 1:1 ratio and really lock it in.  Glock has the MOS line of pistols that has it pre-milled for a number of poular optics, but it requires specific mounting plates for each, and is as close as you can get to custom without going and milling the slide for the optic itself.

LOCATION: IDAHO

According to someone who is allegedly the lead engineer on the RMR Gen2 project:

  • The electronics are confirmed to be fully potted
  • 30 optics with 30k cycles on a 1911, none with any issues
  • The lens and coating remain the same
  • The battery save function that kicks the device to auto mode (not auto-off, just auto-brightness) resets the 16.5 hour timer with any button push, and cannot be disabled; due to the use of this feature, you should get at least 2 years of battery life under any kind of reasonable use
  • Switching the shipped screws from hex to Torx
  • The new RMR electronics are not backwards compatible with the old housing, due to changes to the inner housing pocket

Plus ça change, plus c'est la même chose.

 

老僧三十年前未參禪時、見山是山、見水是水、及至後夾親見知識、有箇入處、見山不是山、見水不是水、而今得箇體歇處、依然見山秪是山、見水秪是水。


Joined: 2008-07-16

Well thanks to the cabela's sale that was posted on the RMR I just ordered one. I don't have a way of mounting it to anything yet even as I'm really only looking to test this concept for me and if it worksout then going to getting a slide milled for a duty gun since we are allowed them. Does anyone have a dueck defense mount laying around they'd be willing to loan for a little while?

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Joined: 9/1/12

Mills11b3 posted:

Which size dot did you order? That's the only thing holding me back.

 

Certainly not Shadow & none of my business but years ago I listened to Gary Roberts re. dot size (RM 06 / 3.25 MOA) & like other things he has advised me on over the years I have ZERO regrets.

Joined: 3.28.09            

Location: NETX

MG in TX posted:
Mills11b3 posted:

Which size dot did you order? That's the only thing holding me back.

 

Certainly not Shadow & none of my business but years ago I listened to Gary Roberts re. dot size (RM 06 / 3.25 MOA) & like other things he has advised me on over the years I have ZERO regrets.

MG is right. I went with the 3.25 dot. That's the most frequent size I've heard regular users go with. 

They are backordered from Cabela's now though I must have gotten one of the last in stock ones.

--------------------------------------

Joined: 9/1/12

MG in TX posted:
Mills11b3 posted:

Which size dot did you order? That's the only thing holding me back.

 

Certainly not Shadow & none of my business but years ago I listened to Gary Roberts re. dot size (RM 06 / 3.25 MOA) & like other things he has advised me on over the years I have ZERO regrets.

Concur with all.

 

 

 

 

Joined:      14 January 2010                Location:     Lobster emoticonMAINELobster emoticon

Figures the new model would come out two weeks after I got mine back from ATEI. Not that I'm worried about it holding up, just that cabelas price was ridiculous. 

I also went with the 3.25 RM06IMG_3511

______________________________________________________

 

"Violence, naked force, has settled more issues in history than has any other factor, and the contrary opinion is wishful thinking at its worst. Breeds that forget this basic truth have always paid for it with their lives and freedoms." - R. Heinlen

 

Joined:  1/30/05           Location: Graham, Wa

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I also ordered the 3.25 rm06 from cabelas. Says its backordered until mid july. So now i have some more time to buy a new blue label glock and send it to atei. #gunproblems

------------------------------

 

Don't look at me in that tone of voice

 

I'll bring all of my shoes and my glasses....so I have them 

dan187 posted:

Figures the new model would come out two weeks after I got mine back from ATEI. Not that I'm worried about it holding up, just that cabelas price was ridiculous. 

I also went with the 3.25 RM06

The Glock you got back looks great!  Im certainly looking forward to giving it a shot on mine when I get back from this deployment.  How long was your wait with ATEI? 

LOCATION: IDAHO

When I ordered, it showed in stock, so I hope that's the case.  Hoping Cabelas didn't drop the sale price and BS their inventory to get a bunch of orders in and then not deliver until July.  That would be kind of dirty. 

Looking forward to picking up one of the Type 2 RMR when it releases also. 

LOCATION: IDAHO

bjw182005 posted:
dan187 posted:

Figures the new model would come out two weeks after I got mine back from ATEI. Not that I'm worried about it holding up, just that cabelas price was ridiculous. 

I also went with the 3.25 RM06

The Glock you got back looks great!  Im certainly looking forward to giving it a shot on mine when I get back from this deployment.  How long was your wait with ATEI? 

If Doug is backed up or as a mere alternative take a look @ Mark Housel @ L & M Precision Gunworks.

I used him to mill my Shield for a DP after Kevin B recommended him, he's also a member here (posted in this thread IIRC) & I always try to support fellow LFers when possible.

Joined: 3.28.09            

Location: NETX

Mark did my Glock 35 a few years ago. I am very pleased with his work.

__________________________________
"Experienced cops don't have 'hunches'. They have superior observational and analytical skills which allow them to make the connection between otherwise innocuous facts, and take appropriate action to assess that perception."

~ Doug Mitchell

 

Life is Good!


Joined: 03/08/2008     Location: Sandy Hook, NJ

Erick posted:

Going forward though, I'm using the Unity Tactical cut & adapters which Mark can also do. 

Why is that? Out of curiosity 

------------------------------

 

Don't look at me in that tone of voice

 

I'll bring all of my shoes and my glasses....so I have them 

Erick posted:

Mark Housel cut & re-finished one of my M&P slides, quite happy with his work. 

Going forward though, I'm using the Unity Tactical cut & adapters which Mark can also do. 

Didn't Mark do the intitial runs of the Unity slides?

__________________________________
"Experienced cops don't have 'hunches'. They have superior observational and analytical skills which allow them to make the connection between otherwise innocuous facts, and take appropriate action to assess that perception."

~ Doug Mitchell

 

Life is Good!


Joined: 03/08/2008     Location: Sandy Hook, NJ

Tropleo posted:

I also ordered the 3.25 rm06 from cabelas. Says its backordered until mid july. So now i have some more time to buy a new blue label glock and send it to atei. #gunproblems

Brother, you suck for "another Blue label glock"  I have to wait until after the first of the year for another GSSF coupon.

Joined: 30 May 2003                  Location: SE PA

hile posted:
Tropleo posted:

I also ordered the 3.25 rm06 from cabelas. Says its backordered until mid july. So now i have some more time to buy a new blue label glock and send it to atei. #gunproblems

Brother, you suck for "another Blue label glock"  I have to wait until after the first of the year for another GSSF coupon.

Hile look @ it this way, waiting until 2018 *may* allow you to sample the new AP micro IF/WHEN they release it.

Joined: 3.28.09            

Location: NETX

MG in TX posted:
hile posted:
Tropleo posted:

I also ordered the 3.25 rm06 from cabelas. Says its backordered until mid july. So now i have some more time to buy a new blue label glock and send it to atei. #gunproblems

Brother, you suck for "another Blue label glock"  I have to wait until after the first of the year for another GSSF coupon.

Hile look @ it this way, waiting until 2018 *may* allow you to sample the new AP micro IF/WHEN they release it.

haha point, MG.  Though I think my next 3 GSSF coupons are spoken for: G31,32,33. I can get 9mm red label anywhere, but few places stock 357SIG models (and I fucking hate 40).  Though I am intrigued by the MOS models. I still need to put a T2 on my carbine let alone on a sidearm.

Joined: 30 May 2003                  Location: SE PA

Tropleo posted:

I also ordered the 3.25 rm06 from cabelas. Says its backordered until mid july. So now i have some more time to buy a new blue label glock and send it to atei. #gunproblems

This morning the website shows backordered 15-16 WEEKS. 

 

Mechanical and electrical engineers build weapons systems; civil engineers build targets.

 

Location: Southern New Hampshire

lasertech posted:
Tropleo posted:

I also ordered the 3.25 rm06 from cabelas. Says its backordered until mid july. So now i have some more time to buy a new blue label glock and send it to atei. #gunproblems

This morning the website shows backordered 15-16 WEEKS. 

 

Alright, so, I guess we are now shooting for a 2018 delivery. 

------------------------------

 

Don't look at me in that tone of voice

 

I'll bring all of my shoes and my glasses....so I have them 

When I ordered mine yesterday morning - thanks Tropleo for the heads up but I think my wife wants a word with you - it was only backordered 2 weeks. Meh... I'm in no rush.

ETA: Just checked my email receipt - says expected ship date 6/19.

__________________________________
"Experienced cops don't have 'hunches'. They have superior observational and analytical skills which allow them to make the connection between otherwise innocuous facts, and take appropriate action to assess that perception."

~ Doug Mitchell

 

Life is Good!


Joined: 03/08/2008     Location: Sandy Hook, NJ

Did I read the above correctly, in that after 16.5 hours of pushing a button, the RMR 2 goes to auto adjustment??  I hope that's not the case.

"If you can't do something smart, do something right" -Jayne Cobb

 

Joined: 2010.                 Location: NOVA HELL

High Exposure posted:

When I ordered mine yesterday morning - thanks Tropleo for the heads up but I think my wife wants a word with you - it was only backordered 2 weeks. Meh... I'm in no rush.

ETA: Just checked my email receipt - says expected ship date 6/19.

I'm on a lot of wives hit lists, it's actually a running joke.  To the point where I have begun forming disclaimers that under no circumstance do they reveal their source to the wife. Either that or I blatantly blue falcon one of my other guys by throwing him under the bus. 

------------------------------

 

Don't look at me in that tone of voice

 

I'll bring all of my shoes and my glasses....so I have them 

Tropleo posted:
High Exposure posted:

When I ordered mine yesterday morning - thanks Tropleo for the heads up but I think my wife wants a word with you - it was only backordered 2 weeks. Meh... I'm in no rush.

ETA: Just checked my email receipt - says expected ship date 6/19.

I'm on a lot of wives hit lists, it's actually a running joke.  To the point where I have begun forming disclaimers that under no circumstance do they reveal their source to the wife. Either that or I blatantly blue falcon one of my other guys by throwing him under the bus. 

I like your style.

I'm usually That Guy to my friends as well. It's nice to mix it up sometimes. 

__________________________________
"Experienced cops don't have 'hunches'. They have superior observational and analytical skills which allow them to make the connection between otherwise innocuous facts, and take appropriate action to assess that perception."

~ Doug Mitchell

 

Life is Good!


Joined: 03/08/2008     Location: Sandy Hook, NJ

http://blog.krtraining.com/red-dot-study-key-points/

The above link is a very good new discussion of handgun slide mounted RDS use and is generally in concordance with what we experienced in our LE service handgun RDS study which began in 2010, the results of which have been reported repeatedly since then, as shown in a summary quote of our study below:

"Lessons Learned After 5 Years of RDS Use On Service Pistols

For shooters who have difficulty visualizing standard iron sights, a pistol RDS definitely improves hit probability, especially at longer ranges. The use of RDS on all weapon systems (handgun, SMG/PDW, shotgun, rifle) creates a common sight picture across platforms. The RDS allows the shooter to remain fully focused on the threat and not have to transition back to the front sight prior to firing—this is an incredibly SIGNIFICANT factor in the real world!

Under 12-15 yards, conventional iron sights are generally are faster for most shooters; beyond that, a handgun with an RDS is tough to beat. A shooter is doing quite well, if when using a slide mounted RDS equipped handgun, they can EQUAL conventional iron sight performance during rapid fire shooting from around 12 yards and closer.

The real benefits of a pistol with slide mounted RDS occurs at longer ranges, with movement of the shooter or target, and in low light. Shooting at moving targets and when shooting on the move is dramatically easier with an RDS. When engaging a hostile target in a larger open area such as a school, shopping mall, airport, etc... that requires extensive movement and long shots, an RDS offers a substantial advantage over conventional iron sights based on numerous timed and scored practice scenarios. An RDS also offers advantages in reduced light shooting, as an RDS equipped pistol completely eclipses conventional tritium sights for low light shooting and is unsurpassed when using night vision.

Initially the larger 6-8 MOA size red dots were preferred, however, with increased experience using handgun RDS, the smaller 2-4 MOA dot size became more appealing for many shooters, especially for longer range targets. The ability to easily turn the dot off to allow practice with the BIS was appreciated. Likewise having the option to switch from auto intensity to manually adjusting dot brightness to optimize it for different lighting conditions was preferred. Much like with an AR15, awareness of the dot offset from the bore must be maintained at closer ranges under 10 yards or so. A 25 yard zero was used on all handgun RDS, allowing hits from 0-100 yards. Many shooters noted that it took several thousand presentations before they became fully comfortable with rapid target acquisition using the RDS. Almost all shooters quickly achieved large gains in their accuracy scores at 25 yards and farther. (Mounting RDS on inert training pistols like the SIRT can speed-up initial acclimatization to RDS equipped pistols and help new end-users more rapidly develop proficiency.)

Several older officers suffering from middle aged presbyopia had been plagued with steadily diminishing qualification scores over the past several years. After adopting an RDS equipped pistol they noticed a dramatic increase in their scores—some shooting better than they had 25 years earlier.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

-- For those with vision issues, an RDS equipped handgun can be the answer.
-- For certain specific operational requirements and mission sets, a handgun mounted RDS is an excellent tool, particularly for long range engagements and when using NV.
-- The ability to remain fully focused on the threat and not have to transition back to the front sight prior to shooting is a key advantage of a pistol with RDS for LE use.
-- Slide mounted, reciprocating RDS are harder to shoot and less durable than stationary, frame mounted optics.

If you don't need an RDS, you don't have to use one; on the other hand, those who do use them, find them quite helpful in many respects."
prestonoconnor posted:

Which model RMR? Is the model for sale at Cabela's the go to choice? For that price I thought about getting one for my Glock 19 and for a Ruger MK  II .22  LR. I read the description on Cabela's. I don't know about the automatic adjustment. I would like like a manual adjustment

The RM06 is the manual adjustment 3.25 Moa dot.   It has an auto adjustment mode which can be turned off.  

Hippies are just free range yuppies. - M. Wilson

That's a great deal from Cabelas.

I know there was a thread or posts here about a MRDS on a M&P Shield.  I don't have the patience to deal with this nonfunctional search function.   Can someone steer me there or give me the BLUF? 

*******

Joined 08/26/03   Location:  Southern Oklahoma

MAC19D posted:

That's a great deal from Cabelas.

I know there was a thread or posts here about a MRDS on a M&P Shield.  I don't have the patience to deal with this nonfunctional search function.   Can someone steer me there or give me the BLUF? 

Mac OTR presently but I've got a Shield that Mark Housel milled for me in 2015 after a thread Kevin B had here re. the same.

The Shield has a Leu. DP & serves as my EDC in AIWB. PM me for more info or pics as this driving & typing is no bueno.

Joined: 3.28.09            

Location: NETX

Andrew Yersin posted:
prestonoconnor posted:

Which model RMR? Is the model for sale at Cabela's the go to choice? For that price I thought about getting one for my Glock 19 and for a Ruger MK  II .22  LR. I read the description on Cabela's. I don't know about the automatic adjustment. I would like like a manual adjustment

The RM06 is the manual adjustment 3.25 Moa dot.   It has an auto adjustment mode which can be turned off.  

 

Wut? My RMR06 is the manual adjustment 3.25 MOA dot, but does NOT have an auto adjustment mode. You may be confusing the Generation 1 RMR06 with the "new" one? 

 

 

 

 

Joined:      14 January 2010                Location:     Lobster emoticonMAINELobster emoticon

Safarliand has a model of which I had never heard before, the 6392RDS, which is also light compatible. The problem for me (again) is that there is nothing that is directly compatible with an Aimpoint H/T model. What would be closest of the various options? Any idea?

- - - -
Never be biased. Get to know people, and then hate them for objective reasons. They will almost always give you plenty.

LobsterClaw207 posted:
Andrew Yersin posted:
prestonoconnor posted:

Which model RMR? Is the model for sale at Cabela's the go to choice? For that price I thought about getting one for my Glock 19 and for a Ruger MK  II .22  LR. I read the description on Cabela's. I don't know about the automatic adjustment. I would like like a manual adjustment

The RM06 is the manual adjustment 3.25 Moa dot.   It has an auto adjustment mode which can be turned off.  

 

Wut? My RMR06 is the manual adjustment 3.25 MOA dot, but does NOT have an auto adjustment mode. You may be confusing the Generation 1 RMR06 with the "new" one? 

Per the manual on the adjustable led RMR gen 1. Press both buttons to enter auto mode where the RMR will  adjust to ambient lighting   

 

Hippies are just free range yuppies. - M. Wilson

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