Ruger revamps the PC9...

A co-worker of mine really wanted one of these and was looking into getting a Glock 19.  Then he checked the price of the Ruger Security 9 and got both the carbine and pistol, out the door, for less than $900.    Now I have to check Magpul for plans to make a backpacker stock.

-------------------------

Mark

Swear allegiance to the flag Whatever flag they offer

Never hint at what you really feel

Teach the children quietly For some day sons and daughters

Will rise up and fight while we stood still

 

Joined:  2/24/2003                          Location:  Nevada, USA

Pretty sure that's exactly what they were aiming for.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

So low speed, i'm in Park.

"I could stand to hear a little more.." Jayne

Training is brief. Death is forever. PAY ATTENTION.

Joined: 6/14/03 1:02 PM

Like the cowboys of yesteryear. Pretty cool for non mil/leo. 

Obviously I'm a sucker for 10mms.....

I am a Deacon from the Church of the Painful Truth 

...it's not the arrow, it's the Indian 

"In times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

.45ACP, because sometimes short, fat and slow will do the job.

"Stand your ground. Don't fire unless fired upon, but if they mean to have a war let it begin here." Captain John Parker, to his Minute Men on Lexington Green, April 19, 1775.

MrMurphy posted:

Pretty sure that's exactly what they were aiming for.

Ruger is releasing several new guns now. The Security 9, a revamped LC9 that I can’t recall what they’re calling it. The subject gun of this thread. All at typical Ruger type pricing, what seems to me to be fairly reasonable from what I’ve seen recently. I’ve still got my original version of the LC9 that I shoot so much better than both the Shield and G43 that I would only get one of those if it came to me for free. 

Mojo/Mark
__________________________
Yo homey, is that my briefcase...?
Vincent from "Collateral"
__________________________
You want the good life, you break your back, you snap your fingers, you snap your neck... Prong/Demon Hunter

Joined: 9/30/09
Location: Northern Nevada (Reno/Sparks)

Do we have any good threads on PCC ballistics vs. pistol ballistics and it's impact on the effectiveness of the round?

 

___________________________________________________________________

I'm either dead right, or horribly wrong. Either way the results should be entertaining.

 

"Shoot the MOTHERF$%^ER until he changes shape or catches fire"  the PAT ROGERS

cd228 posted:

Do we have any good threads on PCC ballistics vs. pistol ballistics and it's impact on the effectiveness of the round?

 

Not sure there’s a specific thread, but I know it’s been discussed. Basically (*** correct me if I’m wrong ***) the actual effectiveness ballistic-wise is basically no better than out of a pistol. I’m pretty sure that include DocGKR’s assessment.

But, as far as overall effectiveness when compared to similar shootings with either pistol or PCC, your effectiveness may be increased due to more consistent good hits due to sight radius increase and being able to shoulder the weapon for stability. As in, I don’t know anyone that, with equal practice, shoots a pistol more accurately than a long gun. 

-----------------------------------

What is left when honor is lost?

TheTick posted:
cd228 posted:

Do we have any good threads on PCC ballistics vs. pistol ballistics and it's impact on the effectiveness of the round?

 

Not sure there’s a specific thread, but I know it’s been discussed. Basically (*** correct me if I’m wrong ***) the actual effectiveness ballistic-wise is basically no better than out of a pistol. I’m pretty sure that include DocGKR’s assessment.

But, as far as overall effectiveness when compared to similar shootings with either pistol or PCC, your effectiveness may be increased due to more consistent good hits due to sight radius increase and being able to shoulder the weapon for stability. As in, I don’t know anyone that, with equal practice, shoots a pistol more accurately than a long gun. 

There was a thread recently about 9mm AR carbines and I think that’s where the subject came up. DocGKR did in that thread say basically what you mentioned. Ballistically no real benefit. Controllability and hit probability better, yes, but not better than a 5.56 carbine in those respects. At least that’s what I remember. And as you say, someone correct me if I’m wrong. 

Mojo/Mark
__________________________
Yo homey, is that my briefcase...?
Vincent from "Collateral"
__________________________
You want the good life, you break your back, you snap your fingers, you snap your neck... Prong/Demon Hunter

Joined: 9/30/09
Location: Northern Nevada (Reno/Sparks)

How about muzzle flash/noise in a home? I read 9mm would be much less than 223/556.

I think it's a great truck/HD/ give to a wife gun....

10mm would be great so would one in .40 but I think it in 9mm, takes glock mags and is a takedown is a win for a lot of roles...

So I took the PC9 to the range yesterday before work.  I left with slightly mixed but overall positive feelings.

Range is an indoor 15 yard pistol range with positive pressure ventilation.  It was pouring outside and foggy inside.  

First order of business was to change the magwell adapter from Ruger to Glock.  Magwell Adaptors are polymer/plastic with metal ejector and what appeared to be the "bolt hold open device lever thing."  That will put a damper on 3D printing magwells for say HK or Beretta magazines.  Instructions are clear and straight forward.  Unscrew two action screws on the bottom of the stock, lift out the action, lift out old mag well adaptor, put in new one, and bolt action back in.  Magwell adaptor fits in without any play and the way the stock in shaped you don't have to worry about it falling out of the bottom when you pull a magazine out.  Magazine release is reversible but remember what generation magazine you are using for Glock mags.  

IMG-1731IMG-1730

I grabbed a few different boxes of ammo to shoot.  White Box 115gr (100), Blazer Brass 115gr(50), PPU Surplus 124gr(50), and Gold Dot 124gr +P(50).   Magazines were 2 Glock 15 round OEM mags, one from a Gen 2 New York City Housing Police issued Glock 19 (1992-1993),  a Gen 4 Glock 19 purchased in 2016. and a free ETS 10 round clear magazine.  Any double stack Glock 9mm magazine will work. Even Glock 26 magazines. 

IMG-1735

I experienced 4 failures to eject over the 250 rounds put through the rifle.  Rifle was shot out of the box without cleaning and Slip 2000.  The bolt and take down interface were visibly wet when it was function checked but that was the only lubrication present when I shot it.   I shot in the following order:WWB, PPU, Gold Dot, then Blazer Brass.

First failure to eject was with Winchester Whitebox.  First was at round #63. Second and third was at #92 & #96.  All failures were using the ETS magazine.  With the Winchester ammo the spent casing got stuck towards the base   I was alternating the Glock mags and the ETS mag. 

I decided to remove the Gen 2 magazine from the rotation (I only have 3 and not likely to use them) and alternate between the Gen 4 mag and the ETS mag.  

PPU and Gold Dot fed and shot flawlessly with both magazines.  Blazer Brass experienced a failure to eject at round #32(232 out of 250). The Blazer Brass got caught and dented the case mouth.  It also cause a failure to feed for the next round.  With the failure to eject and failure to feed the bolt had to be pulled all the way back to fire the next round.  I couldn't cheat the spent round out, let the bolt feed the next round, and continue shooting.  

Overall the trigger was quite good and although I was only shooting at 15 yards the sight was easy to use and it shot ragged holes with everything except Blazer Brass.  Blazer Brass was all over the place either because of me, the ammo, a dirty barrel, or atmospheric voodoo.

This is a sample size of one and I think that we all are looking at this as more of a utility or weekend rifle as opposed to a fighting carbine or M4 replacement.  For people with certain ban state restrictions, open spaces under back seats, or back packs this may prove to be a great niche gun.  Ruger's initial concept of providing police departments a carbine compatible with their issued pistols was certainly valid prior to the wide deployment of AR-15 pattern patrol rifles.  I personally wanted a take down rifle but didn't want to settle for a 10/22 Takedown or start buying a new caliber.  As much as Ruger has had some recall issues, it is still a major firearm manufacturer and I hope it will be supported as such if needed.  Like a 1911 it seems that ammo and magazines make a difference so I will continue run different combinations and see what works.  

Anything I may have forgot or if you guys have any other questions ask away. 

"Whadda ya got Jonny!?" - Rest in Peace  Det. Freddie Parent.  

MOJONIXON posted:

There was a thread recently about 9mm AR carbines and I think that’s where the subject came up. DocGKR did in that thread say basically what you mentioned. Ballistically no real benefit. Controllability and hit probability better, yes, but not better than a 5.56 carbine in those respects. At least that’s what I remember. And as you say, someone correct me if I’m wrong. 

When I saw they updated it I was thinking this will be a solution mainly to those of us who live in ban states. Although I had no experience or data to go on, I was pretty certain there wouldn't be much if any in the way of an advantage ballistically. And definitely not over a 5.56 rifle/carbine. But the two main benefits I see with the PCC is more stability, compact profile (storage) and magazine compatibility. For those of you guys who live in free America, an AR pistol with a LAW adapter or an SBR probably makes more sense. 

Joined: 4 April 2005                Location: South Bay Armpit

Excellent. Thank you for the quick measurements. I have one on order.

I’ll be curious to see what bags guys are using for these. Unfortunately it seems due to the length of the rear portion that it won’t fit in a GoRuck Bullet. Looking for something ideally minimal and streamlined; rifle, a few mags, and a med kit. 

I picked one of these up today. Changed out the mag well and hope to shoot it tomorrow while on the range. 

Any updates on the posts here? 

“Then I heard the voice of the Lord saying, ‘Whom shall I send? And who will go for us?’ And I said, ‘Here am I. Send me!’”
"Fuck the know it alls.They don't have to do it, and don't have the balls to do it"

Pat Rogers.

Friend of mine bought one.  Shot well, no malfunctions, accurate, light recoil, good trigger pull.

-------------------------

Mark

Swear allegiance to the flag Whatever flag they offer

Never hint at what you really feel

Teach the children quietly For some day sons and daughters

Will rise up and fight while we stood still

 

Joined:  2/24/2003                          Location:  Nevada, USA

Dorsai, by any chance did your friend just walk in and see it or did he have it on order? The reason I ask is I'm in CA and have been seeing most guys on here getting them (since late last year to early this year) while I've been told from multiple shops in the area they have not been told when/if Ruger will be shipping over here. So far most shops won't even create a wait-list and tell us to call back for updates.

Ever since its reveal I've really been wanting one as this seems to be a reliable alternative to the Kel-Tec Sub2000. I'm not a fan of the latter's quality. I've had a 10/22 Takedown and this in 9mm seems like it would be a great portable carbine. Between reading LFer's initial impressions like yours and reviews from various online sites it seems to be consistent. I'm excited as I initially liked the original PC9 concept, although there were a few things lacking.

Joined: 4 April 2005                Location: South Bay Armpit

montgomerygentryFan posted:

Dorsai, by any chance did your friend just walk in and see it or did he have it on order? The reason I ask is I'm in CA and have been seeing most guys on here getting them (since late last year to early this year) while I've been told from multiple shops in the area they have not been told when/if Ruger will be shipping over here. So far most shops won't even create a wait-list and tell us to call back for updates.

Ever since its reveal I've really been wanting one as this seems to be a reliable alternative to the Kel-Tec Sub2000. I'm not a fan of the latter's quality. I've had a 10/22 Takedown and this in 9mm seems like it would be a great portable carbine. Between reading LFer's initial impressions like yours and reviews from various online sites it seems to be consistent. I'm excited as I initially liked the original PC9 concept, although there were a few things lacking.

I'm in southern cali and I'm seeing them. I am interested in this carbine but I am waiting for any bugs to work there way out if any....also, I just bought 2 glock 19s so...the budget is tight for guns right now. 

I saw one at a local gun store recently and I am hearing that big5 will start carrying them too....Turners is the big gun seller over here and they too pre-orders and are now dros/getting them in.  

 

He just walked in and made a deal for the PC9 and a Security 9.  He really has the disease.  He picked up some Glock 33 rd mags for it, then bought some regular 17 rd mags off Gunbroker and finally picked up a very lightly used Gen3 Glock 17.  He's been bugging Magpul to come out with a Backpacker take down stock for it.

-------------------------

Mark

Swear allegiance to the flag Whatever flag they offer

Never hint at what you really feel

Teach the children quietly For some day sons and daughters

Will rise up and fight while we stood still

 

Joined:  2/24/2003                          Location:  Nevada, USA

Bestcounsel, they must be skipping us in the northern CA because I've called multiple shops both in and out of my area and none have heard word since they were revealed. My feeling is your guys shops must take priority when it comes to distributors because you guys overall have a bigger customer population than us. I'm hoping they eventually make their way up here. 

That's surprising to hear Big 5 will be carrying them, I'd much rather pick one up from them which would make it an easier drive for me. From what I've read I haven't heard of any bugs/issues upon its release. Between video overviews and written reviews all impressions seem positive so far. I guess that's the silver lining in not getting it too soon, we'll be the ones to find out if any problems do pop up.

Dorsai, thanks for the info. Yeah I can sometimes relate to your friend. The first thought that came to mind after seeing it was thinking about their backpacker stock since I bought one for my 10/22 Takedown. Although given the overall dimensions of a Glock 17 or 19 magazine they would have to stagger them horizontally in order to fit in the comb portion of the stock. Otherwise that would be a perfect accessory for that carbine.  

Joined: 4 April 2005                Location: South Bay Armpit

Montgomery, you might be correct on the south vs north thing. 

The big5 thing I could believe for they carry the mini14, ruger 10/22 and scout rifle. 

Hicok45 on you tube did a test/review on the new ruger PCC 9mm and he had a few malfunctions. On his second test/review/video he had no malfunctions. I also saw another review on you tube where a reviewer had a bad trigger pack . Fwiw , my current mini14 had a bad trigger pack but the gunshot I got it from made it good and gave me a new trigger pack off a new mini14 on the wall....so I'm sure ruger will make good on any pcc that goes bad. 

Fwiw, it looks like a nice rifle....

Add Reply

Likes (4)
MOJONIXONfiremission4mortarslpd5408GLOCK10MM
Copyright Lightfighter Tactical Forum 2002-2016
×
×
×
×
×