Step by step DIY SBR

Question related to another topic I've got going on...


Does anyone have a step by step guide to SBRing your lower? As in, a Step 1, Step 2, Step 3, Barney style guide, with the correct and up to date paperwork and where to send it, and in what order to do things?

Obviously there is a TON of info on here and other sites about SBRing, but it seems so disjointed that I'm worried about missing something.

I'm talking about taking a legally purchased stripped lower, and completing the steps required to mount a yet-to-be-purchased sub 16" upper on it, including the engraving and all that.

If a good guide is somewhere around, please point me in the right direction! Thanks in advance for any help

 

 

 

 

Joined:      14 January 2010                Location:     Lobster emoticonMAINELobster emoticon

Original Post
I know this isn't what you want to hear, but check out ARFCOM under the Armory section. They have a step by step, that seems a lot of their members have used to get theirs done.

//NOTHING FOLLOWS// __________________________ Secure the Victory! Elementis Ragamus Proelium "That right there is why we rule the fucking world and foreign governments fear our citizenry." - David Reeves

Make sure you get it engraved with your name/ trust name and the locality.

It can't be any old engraver though - a trophy shop engraving won't cut it. it has to be deep into the metal.

When I built my SBR, I sent the lower to Orion Arms up near Minn/ St Paul. They do good work and color fill the engraving either black, white, or red. Cost something like 15-20 bucks. Very quick turn around.

My Class III dealer I did my supressor through,around the same time as my SBR build, vectored me onto Orion.

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jwise over on the officer.com forum's has a good thread which gives the closest thing to a step-by-step guide on setting up a Trust and filling out a Form-1 I've ever seen.

Heres the link but...
http://forums.officer.com/show...t-route-to-the-NFA...

For the past couple of days when I go to forum.officer.com it just shows me ads and no forum content? Their site F'ed or maybe browser compatibility?
edit--- NVM now it works?

Here is a more ATF Form-1 step-by-step:
http://www.guntrustlawyer.com/form1.html

guntrustlawyer has a lot of good info. jwise's thread is a little more valuable though since a fair amount of people who've successfully went that route posted screen shots of their docs(w/ sensitive parts whited out of course).
I may be out of my lane here, but I thought the only thing needed to legally mount a sub 16" upper was an NFA tax stamp on the upper itself? What is the engraving/trust name etc. you guys are referring to?

EDIT: Mods please delete, I figured out my own question. Form 4 is what I was referring to.
I got the following from another site:

How to SBR Your Lower by Scottryan

Here is a guide to properly SBR your lower. I put this together due to the rash of “mishaps” that seem to plague people who are SBRing their lower.

1. Live in a Free State

2. Realize that you will be married to this lower probably for the rest of your life and you will get pennies on the dollar if you try to sell it after the SBR process.

3. Buy a quality lower preferably from a company that will service it after it has been SBRed. Olympic Arms doesn't count and neither does any cast 1980s crap.

4. Check all the pin holes to see if they are in spec. Trigger/hammer holes are .154” and takedown holes are .248”. The tolerances are +/- 0.001”. Anything more than that is out of spec. I don’t care what any blueprints say. You can take 100 lowers and measure them yourself. You will come up with these numbers.

5. Measure the magazine well. A good magazine well will measure .900” at the front and back and .970” at the slot. If you are less than this, you may have magazine drop free problems.

6. Assemble the lower with a quality LPK such as Colt or LMT. Use a quality stock with proper buffer.

7. Find an good carbine upper of known functioning. Better yet, two or three good carbine uppers that function well.

8. Place carbine upper and lower together and fire a minimum of 1,000 rounds through this combo to make sure you lower is good. Preferably use a variety of magazines.

9. Disassemble lower.

10. Find a good engraver. Orion Arms is good. Your local trophy shop/jewelry store is probably not so don’t waste your time, neither is your Dremel tool.

11. Send lower off for engraving. You do this before you send in any paperwork to the ATF in case something happens to your lower during shipping to the engraver or damage at the engraver. You don’t want to explain to the ATF that your NFA firearm is lost in the mail. Anybody that does this backwards is a complete idiot.

12. Get lower back and make sure everything is ok.

13. Send in NFA paperwork

14. Get approved NFA paperwork.

15. Get less than 16” barrel/upper.

16. Assembly your gun and enjoy.

Anybody that follow these steps will not have any problems.
^^^^ Word.

Depending on your analness, you may elect to forego some of the steps above. Starting with a GOOD lower can not be emphasized enough. If you perform the steps above, I suspect you'd have minimal issues down the road.

----------------------------------------
I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America, and to the republic for which it stands, one nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.

quote:
Originally posted by Desertman:
Never done an SBR. Why would you get it engraved before paperwork comes back with Tax Stamp? Dont you need the number to engrave on it? Just curious as I am wanting to do this soon.

DM


Mainly in the event that the engraving is wrong or the lower is damaged/lost in the process. If the Form 4 hasn't been approved you can call you examiner up and start the process over with another lower.

I always recomend actually assembling the lower and test firing a good amount of rounds with it before you Form 4 it.
quote:
Originally posted by Desertman:
Never done an SBR. Why would you get it engraved before paperwork comes back with Tax Stamp? Dont you need the number to engrave on it? Just curious as I am wanting to do this soon.

DM


No, you just engrave the manufacturer's name (your name or name of your trust if you are doing a trust) and city, state location.

My shop here won't engrave it until the stamp comes in Confused, but if you can do the engraving before you have the stamp, its best for the reasons aforementioned.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The concept that the Bill of Rights and other constitutional protections against arbitrary government are inoperative when they become inconvenient or when expediency dictates otherwise is a very dangerous doctrine and if allowed to flourish would destroy the benefit of a written Constitution and undermine the basis of our government. - Justice Black, Reid v. Covert, 1957

quote:
Originally posted by Desertman:
Never done an SBR. Why would you get it engraved before paperwork comes back with Tax Stamp? Dont you need the number to engrave on it? Just curious as I am wanting to do this soon.

DM


Nope, no number gets engraved on it.

The Form 1 actually puts the existing serial number in the NFA registry. The only engraving that goes on the lower is your name [or Trust/LLC name], city & state.

Regarding getting it engraved BEFORE you send your paper off like clharr said what if you send your Form 1 off and your lower gets lost in the mail or some jackwagon decides to crush the lower in a vise while he hacks at it with an electric pencil. YOU WILL HAVE THE LOWER FOR THE REST OF YOUR LIFE. It's not the best idea to cut corners.

I've done 3 SBR's now and REALLY wish that I would have seen ScottRyan's instructions a long time ago. One my 2nd the engraver actually engraved someone else's info on my lower. This was AFTER the form 1 went pending. Learn from my mistakes.

-----

"Maturity is a wonderful thing, but sometimes you just need to toss adulthood in the dumpster and go punch a guy in a Little Caesar costume."

 

“Americans murder with everything — with cars, with knives, with frozen fish — whatever’s at hand, we’ll kill a motherfucker with it, because he needed killing and we’re a nation of go-getters.”–Robert Brockway

 

Joined: 7/21/07        Location: North GA Mountains

Although they have only engraved one lower for me so far, Indent Marking Services did an awesome job on my lower. They are located in Rockwall, TX, just east of Dallas.

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I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America, and to the republic for which it stands, one nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.

Another plus one for Orion Arms . They did a nice job, at a reasonable price and fast turnaround time. This, after I tried to get a local jeweler's to do it. Definitely not deep enough. I'm not as worried about aesthetics, since I'm just about the only one who'll see this, but I wish I had had it done right the first time around.

"Dishonor not your mothers; now attest that those whom you called fathers did beget you" Henry V act 3 scene 1

I had my trust formed using guntrustlawyer.com and the affiliated lawyer for VA. He was knowledgeable about the process and had a couple of NFA items himself. He walked me through my first one and I had no issues. When my stamp came back I sent my stripped lower to Orion Arms and they took care of me as well.

Process for me:

Form trust with lawyer and have notarized at local bank.

Form trust bank account.

Fill out form 4 in fillable PDF found via google.

Write check from trust bank account to NFA division of BATFE and submit with completed form 4 in duplicate with citizenship declaration and copy of trust.

Wait 4-5 months until form 4 is returned with stamp.

Send stripped receiver to Orion Arms with instructions (contact first via email).

Wait a couple weeks max.

When lower returns assemble it and enjoy.

Hope that helps, while the waiting sucks it is relatively painless. As soon as I move I will be filing to have a couple more SBRs done, a SBS, and probably a suppressor or two. Send it and forget it, it's like Christmas when it finally shows up.
quote:
Originally posted by Mikey G:
Form trust bank account.

Write check from trust bank account to NFA division of BATFE and submit with completed form 4 in duplicate with citizenship declaration and copy of trust.


Mikey,

Just curious, why the separate account? Liability? The only reason I ask is because I'm looking to get a suppressor for my SBR that I did on a trust. Thanks!
Is any engraving required if you DON'T use the Trust method? Sheriff here is real good about signing off approvals on Form 1s and Form 4s.

Signal6Delta, OUT I brew the beer I drink.

 

 

"Only 2 defining forces have ever offered to die for you....Jesus Christ and the American Soldier. One died for your soul, the other for your freedom." -Lt. Col. Grant L. Rosensteel, Jr. USAF

 

Riding, Shooting Straight, And Speaking The Truth, 'Cause I'm Jeff Cooper, and I carry a Glock, Biotch!

 

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The engraving is to show who "made" it. AFAIK, the only way to avoid having that on there after the fact is to buy a registered lower from the manufacturer, which would then be a tax paid transfer to the buyer.

Those of us who know must save those that don't from those that think they do.

"If you count 'three', mister, you'll never hear the man count 'ten'".-John Wayne as Sean Thornton in The Quiet Man

My anger will be aroused, and I will kill you with the sword; your wives will become widows and your children fatherless.-Exodus 22:24

Also came across this:

http ://marylandshooter.com/ar15/trust/SampleTrust.doc

It is MARYLAND specific, but it's a starting point.

I read the school of thought on having some account tied to the trust... but the reality is, you can add things like houses and cars to the trust without purchasing them via the trust. The popular opinion seems to be it's not a big deal.

Then again, I'm not Resq14, Esquire. haha

One annoying thing I learned: If you already own a registered NFA firearm/device, you have to pay a transfer fee ($200) on your own, and another $200 for a new stamp for registered to the trust if you want to add it to you Schedule A. It seems silly to me, but that's what I've read. Supposedly you don't need to re-engrave anything though, as the transfer covers it.

Someone feel free to correct anything that's wrong...

Joined: 08-03-2005     Location: Great State of Maine

carpe noctem

There is only a $200 tax for transferring an NFA item. You can legally move it to the trust with just one stamp.

***update***. this is only if your state allows FTF transfers, so that's why you might have to pay two stamps. Not worth it of course, just get another lower Smile.

A short barrel rifle only needs to be engraved with the makers name, so if you registered it as an individual first, your name and city, st would already be there, and the trust does not need to do anything.

Honestly, that engraving bit seems useless relly, as there is already a serial number that gets noted by the BATFE. But the law is from a long time ago when a tax of $200 was more than a weapon sometimes.
quote:
Originally posted by Desertman:
Never done an SBR. Why would you get it engraved before paperwork comes back with Tax Stamp? Dont you need the number to engrave on it? Just curious as I am wanting to do this soon.

DM


The receiver has to have the name of manufacturer, city and state egnraved on it (at the correct size and depth) by the time the paperwork is approved and in the owner's possession. Otherwise, you're basically in violation.
I will say that after 3 Form 1's if I had to go over and do it ALL over again I would have bought factory complete SBR's.

Is building it cool? Sure. Do you save money? Sure, a little. But not enough to offset the engraving and hassle. You are also putting your name on a gun when you simply don't have to.

In hindsight of the past 6 years I wish I would have bought a factory Daniel Defense, LWRC, Noveske, etc.
1. No engraving.
2. Factory SBR, registered by the factory, not by me.
3. Factory warranty on the whole gun. What it you get it all together and it doesn't work?
4. What if something happens and the SBR needs to be sold? Or worse yet, stolen. [hey, shit happens sometimes]- Do you really want your name and city/state engraved on someone else's gun?

If I had to go out and buy a brand new SBR right now it would be a factory Daniel Defense. Base guns are about 1k, railed ones are $1200ish. One of the best guns on the market today, and less hassle than a form 1.

-----

"Maturity is a wonderful thing, but sometimes you just need to toss adulthood in the dumpster and go punch a guy in a Little Caesar costume."

 

“Americans murder with everything — with cars, with knives, with frozen fish — whatever’s at hand, we’ll kill a motherfucker with it, because he needed killing and we’re a nation of go-getters.”–Robert Brockway

 

Joined: 7/21/07        Location: North GA Mountains

quote:
Originally posted by CarlosDJackal:
quote:
Originally posted by Desertman:
Never done an SBR. Why would you get it engraved before paperwork comes back with Tax Stamp? Dont you need the number to engrave on it? Just curious as I am wanting to do this soon.

DM


The receiver has to have the name of manufacturer, city and state egnraved on it (at the correct size and depth) by the time the paperwork is approved and in the owner's possession. Otherwise, you're basically in violation.


I completely agree with the need to engrave. However, I'm not so sure about the violation part. As long as you don't have the short barrel in your possession, and the rifle isn't assembled yet, I don't think the unengraved receiver is considered a sbr. The converse is true, that is, if you no longer have the barrel the receiver is removed from the purvue of the NFA.

Life gives the test first, then teaches the lesson...

quote:
Originally posted by PsyDoc556:



I completely agree with the need to engrave. However, I'm not so sure about the violation part. As long as you don't have the short barrel in your possession, and the rifle isn't assembled yet, I don't think the unengraved receiver is considered a sbr. The converse is true, that is, if you no longer have the barrel the receiver is removed from the purvue of the NFA.



I did read that on the NFA site and as I have no immediate plans to sell anything, I'm not really concerned about it but this bit does confuse me though; it reads like if you wanted to sell the lower without a sub-16" barrel, your buyer would not need a stamp, but given there is a process to write and have a lower removed from the registry, just slapping a 16" upper on there to sell it seems unlikely.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The concept that the Bill of Rights and other constitutional protections against arbitrary government are inoperative when they become inconvenient or when expediency dictates otherwise is a very dangerous doctrine and if allowed to flourish would destroy the benefit of a written Constitution and undermine the basis of our government. - Justice Black, Reid v. Covert, 1957

My class three dealer (one with many years in the business) told me that if I SBRd an AR, I don't have to engrave it at all. I just listed what was on the side of the AR...Colt, their address, their serial number and left it 5.56. He has also told me in the past that barrel length and caliber is not an issue with the AR for obvious reasons. Anyway, I sent off the Form 1 and it was approved. In fact, I have three ARs I did this with and no issues. I do wonder if I did something wrong after reading the above but I would guess as long as I have the Form 1 approvals, I should be good to go. Anyone else have any input on this?

IF YOU DON'T STAND BEHIND OUR TROOPS, PLEASE, FEEL FREE... TO STAND IN FRONT OF THEM !!!

quote:
Originally posted by 308mgmd:
My class three dealer (one with many years in the business) told me that if I SBRd an AR, I don't have to engrave it at all. I just listed what was on the side of the AR...Colt, their address, their serial number and left it 5.56. He has also told me in the past that barrel length and caliber is not an issue with the AR for obvious reasons. Anyway, I sent off the Form 1 and it was approved. In fact, I have three ARs I did this with and no issues. I do wonder if I did something wrong after reading the above but I would guess as long as I have the Form 1 approvals, I should be good to go. Anyone else have any input on this?


Call the BATFE's NFA Branch and get the straight scoop from them because it sure sounds like your Class 3 dealer is contradicting what is in Section 7.4 here: ATF Document

The reason you put your information is because you are the manufacturer of the NFA item, not Colt. JM2CW.
The ATF info you sent refers of a Form 7 and a Form 2, not a Form 1 that we use to register a SBR. I think there is a difference. The info speaks of being a "manufacturer" making guns for sale to others and probably from scratch. I think that is a different beast. Form 1s just take an already manufactured weapon (I didn't make it, Colt did)and modifying it into a SBR to just add a shorter barrel. That would be closer to "gunsmithing" than "manufacturing."

One could use your references to try to find out more about a Form 1. I already have my approved Form 1s so I don't need to! I would suggest others could contact ATF or search their complicated forms just to save them the cost and hassle of getting their receiver engraved. I think it is worth the effort as they approved mine, just as my dealer said they would, and that saved me time, hassle and money trying to get my guns engraved. Just my 2 cents.

IF YOU DON'T STAND BEHIND OUR TROOPS, PLEASE, FEEL FREE... TO STAND IN FRONT OF THEM !!!

quote:
Originally posted by fearce:
Noveske will register a previously sold lower reciever for you if you buy a shorty upper from them.

Noveske SBR Program


This is a very interesting option, almost too good to be true.


You have the Noveske lower, it's yours. You've bought it at some point and it was transfered to you. You decide that you want an SBR and send this lower to Noveske. As they are the manufacturer of the lower they can turn it into a factory SBR (via a form 2 IIRC). Your complete form 4 goes to Noveske for them to check over before forwarding it to the ATF.

Here's the cool part, once the form 4 is approved Noveske sends that gun back to you. Not to a dealer, not to another entity who will transfer it to you; YOU. The lower is already your gun so there's no transfer required. This is my understanding from calling Noveske a few weeks ago. I wonder how long this will be a workable solution...

Ek

Personally, I'm interested in keeping other people from building Utopia, because the more you believe you can create heaven on earth the more likely you are to set up guillotines in the public square to hasten the process. -- James Lileks

"Be the lack of Bullshit you wish to see in the world around you."

Joined: 8/12/05 6:56 PM                        Location: Oklahoma (not by choice)

quote:
Originally posted by JeffLester:
Although they have only engraved one lower for me so far, Indent Marking Services did an awesome job on my lower. They are located in Rockwall, TX, just east of Dallas.


Recall what they charge?

" We sleep safe in our beds because rough men stand ready in the night to visit violence on those who would do us harm. " -George Orwell Celer, Silens, Mortalitas "Swift, Silent, Deadly"

Blackwind -- I don't recall the exact amount, but it was around $50-60US. Very reasonable in my opinion. The work was top notch.

----------------------------------------
I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America, and to the republic for which it stands, one nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.

quote:
Originally posted by 308mgmd:
The ATF info you sent refers of a Form 7 and a Form 2, not a Form 1 that we use to register a SBR. I think there is a difference. The info speaks of being a "manufacturer" making guns for sale to others and probably from scratch. I think that is a different beast. Form 1s just take an already manufactured weapon (I didn't make it, Colt did)and modifying it into a SBR to just add a shorter barrel. That would be closer to "gunsmithing" than "manufacturing."

I have to agree with your interpretation from reading the ATF document - I don't see anything under "manufacturer" or "manufacturing" that would apply to me as someone modifying the barrel length on an existing weapon in those guidelines. According to this, it sounds like you did the right thing when you filled out your form.

In the instruction on Page 4 of the Form 1, item "i" reads "Serial Numbers and other Markings. If an existing firearm is being modified into an NFA firearm, enter the existing serial number of the firearm into item 4g and the name and address of the original manufacturer into item 4a. Do not Alter or Modify the Existing Serial Number. If the NFA firearm is being made from parts, your name and address are to be entered in 4a and a serial number you create is to be entered into item 4g."

I'm certainly not making a weapon from parts, since the firearm is defined as the registered lower receiver, which I bought complete from the original manufacturer. The engraving guidelines of ATF Publication 5300.4, section 479.102, simply state that the name and location of the manufacturer must be engraved on the firearm. It sounds like the only case where you would need to put your own name there (and engrave it) is if you are doing something like building an AK receiver from scratch with a parts kit or building your own silencer.

It sounds like the ATF is misinterpreting their own publication - or we are. If they approve the Form 1, then it looks to me like whatever manufacturer name /location is in block 4a is what should be engraved on the firearm. Am I missing something here? Is there another ATF document, or a court ruling, that refers specifically to SBRs?

Dave
____________________________________________________
"We are being slaughtered."
    - Unidentified Insurgent, Operation Restoring Rights, Tal Afar, Iraq, September 2005
quote:
Originally posted by 308mgmd:
The ATF info you sent refers of a Form 7 and a Form 2, not a Form 1 that we use to register a SBR. I think there is a difference. The info speaks of being a "manufacturer" making guns for sale to others and probably from scratch. I think that is a different beast. Form 1s just take an already manufactured weapon (I didn't make it, Colt did)and modifying it into a SBR to just add a shorter barrel. That would be closer to "gunsmithing" than "manufacturing."

One could use your references to try to find out more about a Form 1. I already have my approved Form 1s so I don't need to! I would suggest others could contact ATF or search their complicated forms just to save them the cost and hassle of getting their receiver engraved. I think it is worth the effort as they approved mine, just as my dealer said they would, and that saved me time, hassle and money trying to get my guns engraved. Just my 2 cents.


The ATF Form 1 is used to MAKE and register a firearm. There have been letters floating around for a number of years from the ATF. I understand that letters apply only to whom they are addressed, but they offer guidence for the rest of us. This letter, taken from another forum, dated Aug2010 indicates clearly that engraving is required.

I fill out my Form 1's just as you do, that is I don't list anything in BOX H as it isn't necessary, all the information required from me as the MAKER of the gun is already contained in BOX 3B.



Life gives the test first, then teaches the lesson...

quote:
Originally posted by kal0220:
quote:
Originally posted by Mikey G:
Form trust bank account.

Write check from trust bank account to NFA division of BATFE and submit with completed form 4 in duplicate with citizenship declaration and copy of trust.


Mikey,

Just curious, why the separate account? Liability? The only reason I ask is because I'm looking to get a suppressor for my SBR that I did on a trust. Thanks!


This is the reason as I understand it for getting a separate bank account. I haven't done a trust or completed the process yet, but I gathered this in my readings and research.

Remember, if you are using a trust, it is a legal entity that owns the SBR/suppressor/SBS/machine gun...whatever. You are not the legal owner. As the Trustee, you can legally use/control the item the trust owns, but you are not the owner.

To purchase a suppressor/NFA lower etc. via Form 4 and using the trust instead of your self, the funds should originate within the trust. You can place money into the trust bank account to do this, but when the item is paid for, it should be paid for through the trust's account (either credit card or check). That is ONE transfer of ownership from the dealer to the trust. If you purchase it privately, you are then buying it (one transfer), and then you are placing said item into the trust (second transfer).

Someone come along and correct me if I'm wrong, but I hope that helps to make it more clear.
quote:
Originally posted by HD_Cruisin:

When I built my SBR, I sent the lower to Orion Arms up near Minn/ St Paul. They do good work and color fill the engraving either black, white, or red. Cost something like 15-20 bucks. Very quick turn around.

I use Orion Arms as well. They are phenomenally quick, and do a fantastic job. It'll look factory when you get it back, it's that good. It's only around $37 with return shipping.



quote:
Originally posted by jamesavery22:
jwise over on the officer.com forum's has a good thread which gives the closest thing to a step-by-step guide on setting up a Trust and filling out a Form-1 I've ever seen.

Heres the link but...
http://forums.officer.com/show...t-route-to-the-NFA...

For the past couple of days when I go to forum.officer.com it just shows me ads and no forum content? Their site F'ed or maybe browser compatibility?
edit--- NVM now it works?

Here is a more ATF Form-1 step-by-step:
http://www.guntrustlawyer.com/form1.html

guntrustlawyer has a lot of good info. jwise's thread is a little more valuable though since a fair amount of people who've successfully went that route posted screen shots of their docs(w/ sensitive parts whited out of course).

I use Jwise's write-up to get mine. It works well.

________________________

“The will to survive is not as important as the will to prevail... the answer to criminal aggression is retaliation.” -Jeff Cooper

Hey so I've read the various "write-ups" around and still just want one more ounce of clarification...

When going the Trust route, what needs to be sent in, and in what format (by this I mean what needs to be originals, what can be photocopied).

I have my Trust document and the Schedule A with the future SBR listed, and the proper notarization. Do I just photocopy the entire Trust document and schedule A and send it in? Do I need to get a notary to notarize another "original" trust? Obviously my signature will be photocopied because there is only one "original" trust document...confused.

Can someone give me the straight dope on what do send in? I already have the two Form 1's and the "citizenship verification" (I can't remember the form number) filled out.

 

 

 

 

Joined:      14 January 2010                Location:     Lobster emoticonMAINELobster emoticon

quote:
Originally posted by LobsterClaw0351:
Hey so I've read the various "write-ups" around and still just want one more ounce of clarification...

When going the Trust route, what needs to be sent in, and in what format (by this I mean what needs to be originals, what can be photocopied).

I have my Trust document and the Schedule A with the future SBR listed, and the proper notarization. Do I just photocopy the entire Trust document and schedule A and send it in? Do I need to get a notary to notarize another "original" trust? Obviously my signature will be photocopied because there is only one "original" trust document...confused.

Can someone give me the straight dope on what do send in? I already have the two Form 1's and the "citizenship verification" (I can't remember the form number) filled out.


The Declaration of Trust and Schedule A should be copies and there is no need to notarize them. You won't be getting them back.

Otherwise, off the top of my head, you need two signed Form 1's and whatever method of payment you decide to use. I don't believe the citizenship form is actually required for a trust, but I always send one in just to be safe, signed as the trustee. Also, for Form 1's, I have enclosed the Assignment of Property transferring the receiver or rifle to be sbr'ed into the trust. I'm not sure it is needed, but it can't hurt.

Life gives the test first, then teaches the lesson...

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