Tagged With "steel"

Topic

Injuries associated to steel plate armor?

SFF ·
Disclaimer, I use and advocate modern ceramic plates. Looking for materials, references, photos, etc. regarding injuries to users of steel plate armor from spall, projectiles that impacted at less than right angles and deflected into the user, etc. Already searched here and elsewhere and not seeing much, but I think that such things often may not make into the public domain due to HIPPA, etc. Much appreciated.
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Re: Injuries associated to steel plate armor?

vectorsc ·
There are videos of the ar500 spall guard being shot and the results dont seem that tragic. Their buildup coating is paxcon, which was related to Line-X . If you have been in an MRAP you have seen this same shit. i usually buy ceramic anyway. More comfort in the modern skinny ass plate carriers. https://youtu.be/ZxkJM1elAyc
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Re: Injuries associated to steel plate armor?

LobsterClaw207 ·
This is a timely topic as some of us at work were discussing the same thing. My (also unscientific opinion) having seen steel targets shot, is that the projectile stands a large(r?) chance of richocheting upward into the bottom of my face/neck, or downward into my legs and penis. None of which I want.
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Re: Injuries associated to steel plate armor?

SFF ·
My problem with the anti-spall/frag coatings is that while they may work OK when it's only 1 or 2 shots, but when the bullets come at you in MULTIPLES, they probably don't work so well. Count yourself lucky if it's only 1 or 2 shots. I don't count on luck . . . . Case in point - watch the video of the Dallas officer who was murdered when using the pillar for cover and was flanked . . .
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Re: Injuries associated to steel plate armor?

vectorsc ·
I took an m193 in the plate in back once. Right over the kidney, from about 50 yds. I deleted half of this post because the rest of it could have been lawyered into some bullshit about violating a post lawsuit NDA. I don't think I'm going to take many rounds on the plate if I do get nailed. I would think most of them would be non-center of mass hits and a lucky one or few in the plate protected area. The backface deformation on my early ceramic plate was intense and frankly I think it was on...
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Re: Injuries associated to steel plate armor?

JF ·
Sorry no data, but unless there's something to reliably capture the fragments/projectile then they are going to strike something in a 360 degree area around the impact. I like this video to show new instructors about the safety considerations when setting up a steel range sessions. https://www.youtubedotcom/watch?v=QfDoQwIAaXg
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Re: Injuries associated to steel plate armor?

Sinister ·
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flak_jacket http://history.amedd.army.mil/...blstcs/chapter11.htm https://books.google.com/books...20wounds&f=false http://history.amedd.army.mil/...cs/wwii/woundblstcs/ http://www.dtic.mil/dtic/tr/fulltext/u2/688122.pdf http://ww2f.com/threads/questi...ng-body-armor.15223/ https://books.google.com/books...20wounds&f=false
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Re: Injuries associated to steel plate armor?

SFF ·
Relating to this, if you look at videos in which bad guys engage officers, they rapid fire (Dallas being only 1 such incident) and all those rounds, should they hit steel, create a lot of spall. Further, in reality, angles of fire are not 90 degrees, so after those bullets hit steel, they are likely to leave as a more or less intact projectile, with significant wounding/fatality potential.
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Re: Injuries associated to steel plate armor?

Trajan Aurelius ·
This has been a known issue since the intersection of armor and bullets, only the degree has changed. The IJN Battleship Musashi had a spall liner inside each of its 18.1 inch three gun turrets and I am sure this was a wide spread practice in the Imperial Japanese Navy. The liner was made of 9 mm think silk to absorb spall. In the Vietnam War, helicopter crew were issued ceramic "chicken plates" with a ballistic nylon cover to capture spall from the shattered ceramic plates. There are a...
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Re: Injuries associated to steel plate armor?

shoobe01 ·
Cool video. But let's be clear, the fragments that come off a plate even without ricochet are moderately unpleasant. They eat away at concrete and metal over time. Softer materials (fabrics, chipboard) handle them better I guess because they are fast but very lightweight, but I wouldn't want my head in the way. I have heard many, many anecdotal stories, and over the years seen a handful of autoposy diagrams and AAR photos of serious ricochets from steel rifle and trauma plates. But I cannot...
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Re: Injuries associated to steel plate armor?

shoobe01 ·
Question (not challenge): I thought spall liners were to stop spall. Spall being the armor itself turning into secondary projectiles from deformation or penetration by a projectile, explosive force, or other mechanical effect. And I thought I had seen in detail (somewere, probably a book I cannot search with google!) that spall protective materials may or may not be useful to protect against ricochet, as they are designed/selected to protect against fragments forming in contact with the...
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Re: Injuries associated to steel plate armor?

Trajan Aurelius ·
Shoobe, I see the spall problem and the ricochet problem as very similar; the ricochet is the primary projectile; spall is a secondary projectile. Spall liners, inside turrets of any size, capture spall. Ricochets and spall from steel body armor plates can both be contained by a ballistic covering. Both are moving fast enough to cause injury. This is how chicken plates work(ed). Bullets would penetrate the carrier and ballistic covering, slowing it a bit, and hit the ceramic plate beneath...
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Re: Injuries associated to steel plate armor?

TheTick ·
SFF- Are you trying to convince someone to not get them? If so, how about videos of XM193 hitting steel plates? There's a lot and I've found them most effective in getting people to reconsider Couple spalling with the fact that XM193 cruises straight through and it's a no-go.
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Re: Injuries associated to steel plate armor?

SFF ·
Many of the AR500 company's plates they can cover with a rubber-like substance to catch spall (frag) from the bullet striking the plate. This adds thickness (about 1/4") and weight. But how well does it protect the user from spall/frag?
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Re: Injuries associated to steel plate armor?

SFF ·
Yes. Going to show vids and maybe also put some cardboard around some (rifle grade) steel targets that we have to show what happens.
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Re: Injuries associated to steel plate armor?

Linz ·
Or you wear armour to defeat the spall from the plate: https://www.awm.gov.au/collection/REL23774/
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Re: Injuries associated to steel plate armor?

MWL ·
There is a company up here that sells AR500 armour made with some sort of special process and then covered with a coating that is supposed to catch all the spall from multiple rounds. They are S&J Hardware. Regards. Mark
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Re: Injuries associated to steel plate armor?

lowlight ·
Most of the ar500 coatings are just spray on bedliner.
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Re: Injuries associated to steel plate armor?

MAC19D ·
FWIW, last summer one of the students in a class I was teaching had some new steel plate armor. He wanted to shoot them and "see what happens".... ok, it was his idea. I know I have accidentally left a can of paint sitting in front of steel targets, and already know what inevitably happens. Highly unscientific testing followed. There was some kind of a coating on the steel, almost looked like the stuff used as bed liner in the back of my truck. Shot it with some Black Hills 77 grain OTM ammo...
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Re: Injuries associated to steel plate armor?

shoobe01 ·
While I have seen some legit rubbery coating with fibers under that look like spall coating inside armored vehicles, most plate coatings I see are like this. Often even come from the factory with corners chipped off. Unless I missed something about the material properties, spall shields seem like they should not be brittle.
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Re: Injuries associated to steel plate armor?

M. Wilson ·
Put a watermelon (or balloons) above the plate on a stick/support to act as an unscientific analog for their melon and then shoot the plate. Then point out how soft and squishy the underside of ____________'s jaw/neck is and wait for the light bulb to flicker to life. You can also use poster board cut into a 4" wide strip however long and duct tape to build a "frame" (like a cake pan) perpendicular around the edge of the plate to act as a witness card to show that the bullet frags don't just...
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