Tagged With "Rail"

Topic

Night vision and Aiming systems

Longeye ·
This thread is for discussion of night vision and the related aiming systems. There are a number of posts scattered around LF, but as far as I can see there is not a single dedicated topic. In the aftermath of Hogpocolypse, it struck me that a consolidated topic would be useful. As I find links to individual posts I will add them in this first post. So, any comments, questions or observations about buying, using, or setting up NVG devices and the associated IR aiming and illumination systems...
Topic

Best modern rail? For a 16" rifle?

Joe007 ·
Thus far I have preferred solid rails like geissele and Daniel defense. But I was getting ready to do another 16" upper and even though I have a geissele 15" MK1 staged in waiting, was thinking of going with a lightweight barrel and one of the new, cool, rails. I know hodge is hot right now, and I was thinking of going with the mega equivalent. But then I saw the V7 which looks similar but with the superior alloy and it isn't much more money. I'm I correct about the V7 rail? Anything else...
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Re: Best modern rail? For a 16" rifle?

SolidCopper ·
If I may, I'd like to bring this thread back from the dead. I'm going to replace stock carbine handguards on a 10.5" SWAT rifle (with giggle switch, though I can't imagine why I'd use it outside of qual day). I want to install a rail on the rifle specifically for an IR laser aiming device, stubby hand stop, and white light. Degree of difficulty: it must sit behind a standard A2 front sight base (my mods may only go so far). The barrel nut/delta ring may be removed and replaced. I'm thinking...
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Re: Best modern rail? For a 16" rifle?

pointblank4445 ·
For that, Geissele would be my first pick then the BCM MCMR-7. 10.5" and you gotta keep the FSP...that sucks.
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Re: Best modern rail? For a 16" rifle?

The Rat ·
I haven't used Centurion, but I do have three Geisseles; two mk8 and one mk14. All of them are rock solid and enormously easy to install. (No barrel nut timing, woooo!) I've heard that the Hodge Wedge Lock is also very solid for the purposes of mounting IR lasers, but that came out after I had my G's already installed. From what I understand, the Geissele rails are still extremely solid when it comes to mounting lasers.
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Re: Best modern rail? For a 16" rifle?

pointblank4445 ·
Just got my first Hodge Defense/MEGA rail the other day. It's a really cool rail, much better feel than a Geissele but still very slim...it's "juuuust right". MEGA might make a 7" carbine wedge lock, but the Hodge variant does not come in that length.
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Re: Best modern rail? For a 16" rifle?

eagle5 ·
If you are required to maintain the FSP but can remove the delta ring, I would look at the Centurion Arms C4 Carbine Cutout Rail ( https://www.centurionarms [dot]com/product-p/0609-cc.htm). I think it would be the easiest installation for you and the cutout gives you a little more flexibility for real estate. I have a DD MK18 RIS II FSP rail on my work rifle, which is very similar to the Centurion C4 Cutout, and I like what it provides.
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Re: Best modern rail? For a 16" rifle?

exSquid ·
X2 on the Centurion cut out. The extra length gives you more real estate and the extra weight is negligble. It also uses a standard barrel nut and keeps the FSP (which I personally prefer). x/S
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Re: Best modern rail? For a 16" rifle?

Joe007 ·
Feels better than the Geissele mk1/mk3 that has the rounded 3d contouring? I'll need to check one out
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Re: Best modern rail? For a 16" rifle?

Joe007 ·
Since they discontinued the Daniel defense cut out rails, I have one on a 11.5 and love it for a quad rail, that pretty much leaves centurion. I don't think Midwest or Troy have a cutout rail for that length
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Re: Best modern rail? For a 16" rifle?

pointblank4445 ·
I have 2x mk 1 (hk) smr and 3x mk3's...love me some Geissele but the Hodge is very, very nice feel. Probably my new favorite. Plus I like the index pin too.
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Re: Best modern rail? For a 16" rifle?

Joe007 ·
http://www.vsevenweaponsystems...ened-handguard-m-lok http://www.megaarms.com/ar-15/...nggallery/thumbnails http://www.weaponoutfitters.co...ail-system-13-5.html
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Re: Best modern rail? For a 16" rifle?

pointblank4445 ·
Geissele and Hodge seem to be the "hot, new thing". Honestly, every rail I've ever built with has notable pro's and con's. It's best to just pick your poison and/or roll with whichever matches your build's purpose.
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Re: Best modern rail? For a 16" rifle?

Default.mp3 ·
The V7 has the 2099, but it also needs a timed barrel nut, and is probably less rigid overall; it also lacks the 1030 and 0130 M-LOK slots, though the WedgeLocks only have a few of those, too, rather than entirely down the length. The Centurion Arms CMR M-LOK is also worth a looksee. The way I see it is, if you want rigidity above all else, go with the Geissele MK8 if you don't mind chunky, or else the WedgeLock if you want to pay extra for something more ergonomic. If you rigidity is not a...
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Re: Best modern rail? For a 16" rifle?

LobsterClaw207 ·
ALG Defense. All the quality of Geissle, barely any of the price. I have or have installed 30+ of them and they are universally loved. Lightweight and sturdy. All the ones I've messed with are M-Lok. Available in a variety of configurations, either full length top rail, small segment of rail at the muzzle, no built in rail at all... for the money I do not think they can be beat right now.
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Re: Best modern rail? For a 16" rifle?

68WhiskeyNCoke ·
It would seem that rail preference may be rather subjective, as they all modern free float designs seem to accomplish the same task. The difference comes down to appearance, weight, color and I suppose mounting. I've had Centurion, Fortis, and now G MK4 with no issues on any, simply changing because I wanted to. I HAVE noticed that my current Fortis on my 14.5 gets mighty hot, making rail guards or gloves a requirement. My 11.5 suppressed with Geissele rail hasn't been shot yet so I can't...
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Re: Best modern rail? For a 16" rifle?

dan187 ·
I've been leaning towards the Midwest Industries G3 M-lok rail. It has 7 sides of M-lok, the length I want, and a price I can afford; all from a company with a decent reputation for quality of function.
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Re: Best modern rail? For a 16" rifle?

Consigliere ·
KAC URX 3.1 The URX 4 is lighter and needs no tools but the 3.1 rocks.
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Re: Best modern rail? For a 16" rifle?

Joe007 ·
The urx3 and geiselle mk4 have been rails I've liked for a while, second only to the mk1. I'd be more than good sticking with those
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Re: Best modern rail? For a 16" rifle?

TNYankee ·
I have messed with plenty of rails and own a few. Here are my thoughts, FWIW: Larue still rocks for a solid quad rail. Not the newest, but got it right the first time. Troy VTAC/Extreme/Alpha are meh. They work and work with GI barrel nut, but are not great. I own three ALG rails. NO complaints, but beware that the mounting slots may not be ideally located for everyone's needs or preference. I'm having a time finding good MLOK panels for them. Each version (V1/2/3) has different slot...
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Re: Best modern rail? For a 16" rifle?

mobius i ·
CMR Rails. I've had Troys, Gisselle, ALG, DD, KAC, MI, and others. I like Centurion CMR the best. Don't overlook them. Note: I haven't had Hodge or other new hotness.
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Re: Best modern rail? For a 16" rifle?

pointblank4445 ·
Some good info here. I'll add my personal, uncensored observations First, anything that requires the barrel nut timing to be dictated by the gas tube alignment needs to go away. Second, any rail held in position solely by clamping tension should receive added scrutiny. The other thing that really pisses me off about the rails available today are the lengths available (or not available). In my opinion, the ideal length rails is between 11" and 13" for most rails depending on barrel length and...
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Re: Best modern rail? For a 16" rifle?

Sinister ·
SLR Rifleworks offers some very good M-lok and key-lock options.
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Re: Best modern rail? For a 16" rifle?

Joe007 ·
Is the SLR as sturdy as the comparable geissele mk4 and mk8? I've looked at them as the budget alternative
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Re: Best modern rail? For a 16" rifle?

Seawell ·
I have limited experience with free floats, and have only personally used Troy and MI so take my opinion with a grain of salt, but I just used an MI G3 mlok on my first build and have been very satisfied with it. It comes with everything you need to mount it and you don't have to worry about properly timing it to the gas port. Great set-up for someone like me who doesn't have all the tools one should have when piecing together a build. A lot of these rails these days seem pretty similar,...
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Re: Best modern rail? For a 16" rifle?

Middlelength ·
What do you want to do with it? There are tons of good options at every price range these days. For light weight free float, I don't think you can beat Centurion's MLOK or KeyMod CMRs, but they will cost about $200 for a 15". Silly light and thin, only draw back is you can't use just any gas block. Geissele is great, but overbuilt for a lot of uses.
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Re: Best modern rail? For a 16" rifle?

Erick ·
Centurion makes an excellent rail. I do wish their new rails worked with a stock barrel nut rather than a proprietary one; The Geissele ones are having VERY good things said about them by competent experienced people. A recent upper I assembled with a light weight barrel has a Midwest Ind lightweight MLOK 12" rail on it and I could be happier with it - so far. Have taught a couple patrol rifle instructor classes with it, it'll go into full time use once I can get my hands on the scope mount...
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Re: Best modern rail? For a 16" rifle?

SPDSNYPR ·
I went coyote hunting with a friend/ fellow cop recently. Score - me, two shots, two kills - him, zero/zero . . . . . . But who's counting? Anyway. . . . Crossing a fence, he handed me his similarly outfitted rifle (16" with a can) and I noticed how much lighter his was. His had a heavier barrel, too. I handed him my rifle, and he immediately commented on how heavy mine was. Then I realized I have an almost 19oz really old rail on mine. His - Geißele mk8 15", mine - JP 12". His can was...
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Re: Best modern rail? For a 16" rifle?

MrMurphy ·
Agreed, i am looking for absolutely stiff and vibration proof, slim and reasonably light due rack fitting and long hours on perimeter... been looking at ALG.
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Re: Best modern rail? For a 16" rifle?

TNYankee ·
IMO, Geiselle rails are very stiff. This is due to construction, material, and cross-section. The very large/long barrel nut is the key to the rigidity. It provides a large interface and clamp surface, plus ensures the rail is true. Watch Bill's videos (long and wordy, but a wealth of info on the why behind the how) for more info. I recall him specifically addressing the barrel nut as a key feature.
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Re: Best modern rail? For a 16" rifle?

Default.mp3 ·
Now that we're after SHOT Show 2017, one more quality contender has entered the market: https://danieldefense.com/mfrt...5-0-m-lokr-rail.html Also available in 10.0 and 14.5. Here are some thoughts on the Wedge Lock and thoughts from one of the designers of the Wedge Lock. Source: http://www.m4carbine.net/showt...=2375422#post2375422 Source: http://www.m4carbine.net/showt...=2385691#post2385691
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Re: Best modern rail? For a 16" rifle?

SPDSNYPR ·
I fell into a deal on an MI gen 3 m-Lok rail because a guy I know bought it, and wanted to get something higher end. He never even installed it. It was in the blister pack still. It was very light, got reasonable reviews from several places I looked up, and it seemed like a no-brainer. I almost feel guilty about how little he wanted for it. Almost. I don't know what the deal is, but people at work are selling good stuff for cheap right now. Yesterday a guy wanted to sell me his NIB/unfired...
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Re: Night vision and Aiming systems

LobsterClaw207 ·
Hey there - I read and searched, but info is scattered and somewhat dated (that I could find). What's up with the DBAL for an IR/vis laser and illuminator? I see several different versions when I Google, but it's hard for me to tell which is which. All my experience is with the ATPIAL/PEQ-2/PEQ-15 type lasers. This would be a civilian legal version (whichever that is), despite the purchaser being a full time LEO using it on his duty rifle, he can't go through the PD to purchase.
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Re: Night vision and Aiming systems

MOJONIXON ·
From what little I know there are red vis and Ir with illuminator, green vis and ir with illuminator. And there may be both of those but without the Illuminator. It’s been a while since I was searching up all the permutations, so I could be a little bit wrong. The main difference that played around in my head was red versus green for the vis laser.
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Re: Night vision and Aiming systems

XTCBX ·
The only DBALs that have all (Vis, IR pointer and IR illuminator) are the A3 & 4 and D2. The i2 is only available with Vis (green or red) / IR pointer or IR pointer / IR illuminator. The CQBL has a Vis (red only) & IR pointer that are slaved (like the 3&4) but no illuminator. Clear as mud?
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Re: Night vision and Aiming systems

LobsterClaw207 ·
Very confusing. I'm looking at the DBAL-I2 on optics planet, and it appears to have green laser, IR laser, and IR illuminator? Or am I misreading.... https://www.opticsplanet.com/l...de=LD-LS-DBL2RG-9003
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Re: Night vision and Aiming systems

XTCBX ·
Yea, you’re misreading that. DBAL-I2 you get 2 things: Vis laser, IR laser OR IR laser, IR illuminator. DBAL-A3 you get 3 things: Vis laser, IR laser & IR illuminator. DBAL-A4 you get 4 things: Vis laser, IR laser, IR illuminator & white light.
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Re: Night vision and Aiming systems

MOJONIXON ·
And that probably is the hierarchy of cost, too. 4 things is > than 3 things is > than 2 things. I think though that even with the I2 the lasers are slaved so when you zero your vis laser your IR laser is zeroed as well.
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Re: Night vision and Aiming systems

XTCBX ·
No, the I2 lasers are not slaved. The CQBL-1 has slaved lasers though (but the Vis is only available in red). If you want a truly do everything unit the MAWL looks hard to beat. I was very impressed when I played around with Ridgedog’s unit (phrasing!) at Hogopocolips.
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Re: Night vision and Aiming systems

MOJONIXON ·
Ok. Learned something’s today. 1) I2’s aren’t slaved, and, 2) RD lets people play with his unit. . I’d love to have a MAWL, but currently a little spendy for me. I could afford one but don’t have a professional need for one, though that doesn’t preclude one from having one.
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Re: Night vision and Aiming systems

LobsterClaw207 ·
Ah yes, I scrutinized some more and see now. XTCBX thanks that is the most clear I've seen it explained. The MAWL is awesome but outside of this dude's budget at the current time...
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Re: Night vision and Aiming systems

WyattT ·
You can get full power peq on instagram with paperwork showing they aren't stolen pretty easily for about 1800
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Re: Night vision and Aiming systems

runningwolf ·
ATPIAL-C and DBAL A3 are good options. MAWL and NGAL are basically top of the food chain and also very expensive. If you don’t have a legit work reason to need them, it’s hard to justify the money. Unless you just have more money then sense, then you do you.
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Re: Night vision and Aiming systems

CROZ3212 ·
How concerned with IR illuminator effectiveness is he? The only Class I DBALs with illuminators that are worth anything past about 50-60 meters are the -A4 and -D2. The -I2 and -A3 illuminators just don’t get it done. Neither does the illuminator on the ATPIAL-C. The -D2 is the least expensive option with an effective illuminator I have seen and I’ve owned or have significant use with all of the other options suggested, along with most of the Class III stuff except the NGAL. The -D2 is big...
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Re: Night vision and Aiming systems

WyattT ·
For those of y’all with a civi MAWL, is it worth it compared to a full power or uhp la5? Is the ir laser and Illuminator useful at several hundred meters like a uhp peq or are you only able to use it at cqb distances? If it’s awesome then maybe the class I vs III difference isn’t that great
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Re: Night vision and Aiming systems

CROZ3212 ·
The pointer is easily outclassed by an LA-5 (I don’t know that I’ve been exposed to an UHP, just the full power). The illuminator(s) are cleaner and I would say as effective. If you ever messed with an old ATILLA, I thought that thing had a horse of an illuminator. I don’t miss mine with the MAWL. There are multiple things I don’t like about the MAWL, which makes me a heretic I guess, but the pointer does what I need it to these days (I am happily retired) and the illuminator is really...
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Re: Night vision and Aiming systems

MOJONIXON ·
For the semi-educated (me, but learning more everyday) in all this ...what is UHP?
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Re: Night vision and Aiming systems

CROZ3212 ·
Ultra-High Power. The published specs are impressive, to say the least.
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Re: Night vision and Aiming systems

MOJONIXON ·
That’s kind of where my brain was going with it but it just seemed too logical and easy. Thanks.
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Re: Night vision and Aiming systems

Consigliere ·
I can confirm that the ATTILA is an absolute beast. A. Beast.
 
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