Tagged With "ARMOR"

Topic

Footwear Armor

Dr. Steven King ·
Aloha, One of the main area's of trauma for puncture and blast wounds is the feet and lower legs and pelvic area. If you know of any existing armored boot or orthotic systems that can help protect these high risk...
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Gear Testers Wanted: new backpack design

Alspak ·
I am looking for gear testers/product feedback in Colorado. I will consider other locations, on a case by case basis. This is unpaid, except the reward of improving gear, and use of the cool new kit. Over the last 2 years I have been developing a new modular load carriage system that is lighter than current equipment, without sacrificing strength. 2 of our users just finished the Thunder beast/ Competition Dynamics 24 hr sniper adventure challenge in NM; their reviews were all positive.
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Looking for a MOLLE carrier suitable for uniform use

LawDogRD10 ·
I need a little help finding a MOLLE armor carrier suitable for uniform use. I'm a K9 handler now and have the leeway to wear one. The one I'm using has some shortcomings and I need to find one that fits my needs and looks decent. Here's what I'm using now. It's got some old panels crammed into it. My current Second Chance panels won't fit in it and it only holds large plates and not my 5x8 trauma plate. Looks like shit with my collar either smashed under it or it sticks way out. L-R is an...
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Mayflower LPAC and Point Blank concealment cut plates

SoTex ·
Need an external carrier that takes issued concealment cut armor (Point blank alpha elite)and can add plates. Swift clips is a plus over molle everything. Mayflower LPAC seems perfect, can't tell if I can get my issued armor in it or not, appears some do and some don't. Anyone have experience with this actual combo or maybe want to recommend another combo? Have a call into Mayflower to find out buy no joy yet.
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Has anyone seen this?: Wraith Tactical C.A.R.R. Pack

dxlxuxx ·
Apparently it's a go-bag that converts into a plate carrier with a deployable IFAK in the back. Does anyone know anyone who has one of these? I have questions about its functionality.
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Rifle Plates/Manufacturers/Distributors - What We Should Know Before Purchasing

HighwayMan93 ·
As you all know, Doc and other sources of knowledge on this subject have stressed that there are actually only a few manufactures of plates and there has been plenty discussion regarding various plate options and promotional offers when they are available. Many companies advertising the same or similar options in the level 3 and 3+ category appear to have prices outrageously marked up, and trying to compare plates from one companies to the next can be a nightmare. Specs for the same plates...
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Personally Owned Body Armor vs Department Issue

georgiaditchdoc ·
I’ve been doing some research lately, and not finding any answers, about the use of personally purchased body armor vs department issued. I was asked a question about benefits and workers compensation in regards to this question. The officer that asked the question wanted to know if benefits or workers compensation could be denied or reduced to an officer/family if they choose to wear their personally purchased body armor. I know a number of people choose or have to buy their own rifle...
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RFI on a White in Color Concealable Plate Carrier and Lightweight Level III+ Plates.

MOLON_LABE ·
I currently work as a Contracted Armed Security Professional for the U.S. Govt. I am issued a concealable Level IIIA vest that is white in color. The carrier has to be white in order to be worn on duty. Due to the cultural climate and general attitude towards uniformed persons carrying a gun and wearing a badge I have decided I would like to up armor myself with Level III +/Special Threat plates. My issued armor carrier cannot accommodate hard plates of any decent size, (it has the heart...
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Too much armor?

Skaster03 ·
Said no one ever. So, I've been saving for a personal set of armored plates for some time. With the added boost from last year's tax return, I've finally tipped over the point and I'm ready to buy. I've poured over the forums here, paying special attention here: http://www.lightfighter.net/to...-officers-start-here and here: http://www.lightfighter.net/to...and-testing-on-vests and especially here: http://www.lightfighter.net/to...ii-patrol-armor-test . Before we dive into gear, I should...
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Injuries associated to steel plate armor?

SFF ·
Disclaimer, I use and advocate modern ceramic plates. Looking for materials, references, photos, etc. regarding injuries to users of steel plate armor from spall, projectiles that impacted at less than right angles and deflected into the user, etc. Already searched here and elsewhere and not seeing much, but I think that such things often may not make into the public domain due to HIPPA, etc. Much appreciated.
Topic

Best Lvl II SBA for new Carrier?

kykamo ·
Hey guys, Iv learned a lot about body armour reading these forums, but it has also lead to more confusion. I'm looking to get a new carrier and want the lightest and best rated lvl II sba to go with it. There's not much talk about some of these newer armors and was hoping to get some good clarification from your knowledge and experience with the companies. The armours in question: Armor Express Razor Safariland Hardwire Point Blank Alpha Elite I dont know exactly which carrier im going with...
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Re: Injuries associated to steel plate armor?

JF ·
Sorry no data, but unless there's something to reliably capture the fragments/projectile then they are going to strike something in a 360 degree area around the impact. I like this video to show new instructors about the safety considerations when setting up a steel range sessions. https://www.youtubedotcom/watch?v=QfDoQwIAaXg
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Re: Injuries associated to steel plate armor?

Sinister ·
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flak_jacket http://history.amedd.army.mil/...blstcs/chapter11.htm https://books.google.com/books...20wounds&f=false http://history.amedd.army.mil/...cs/wwii/woundblstcs/ http://www.dtic.mil/dtic/tr/fulltext/u2/688122.pdf http://ww2f.com/threads/questi...ng-body-armor.15223/ https://books.google.com/books...20wounds&f=false
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Re: Injuries associated to steel plate armor?

SFF ·
Relating to this, if you look at videos in which bad guys engage officers, they rapid fire (Dallas being only 1 such incident) and all those rounds, should they hit steel, create a lot of spall. Further, in reality, angles of fire are not 90 degrees, so after those bullets hit steel, they are likely to leave as a more or less intact projectile, with significant wounding/fatality potential.
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Re: Injuries associated to steel plate armor?

Trajan Aurelius ·
This has been a known issue since the intersection of armor and bullets, only the degree has changed. The IJN Battleship Musashi had a spall liner inside each of its 18.1 inch three gun turrets and I am sure this was a wide spread practice in the Imperial Japanese Navy. The liner was made of 9 mm think silk to absorb spall. In the Vietnam War, helicopter crew were issued ceramic "chicken plates" with a ballistic nylon cover to capture spall from the shattered ceramic plates. There are a...
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Re: Injuries associated to steel plate armor?

shoobe01 ·
Cool video. But let's be clear, the fragments that come off a plate even without ricochet are moderately unpleasant. They eat away at concrete and metal over time. Softer materials (fabrics, chipboard) handle them better I guess because they are fast but very lightweight, but I wouldn't want my head in the way. I have heard many, many anecdotal stories, and over the years seen a handful of autoposy diagrams and AAR photos of serious ricochets from steel rifle and trauma plates. But I cannot...
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Re: Injuries associated to steel plate armor?

shoobe01 ·
Question (not challenge): I thought spall liners were to stop spall. Spall being the armor itself turning into secondary projectiles from deformation or penetration by a projectile, explosive force, or other mechanical effect. And I thought I had seen in detail (somewere, probably a book I cannot search with google!) that spall protective materials may or may not be useful to protect against ricochet, as they are designed/selected to protect against fragments forming in contact with the...
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Re: Injuries associated to steel plate armor?

Trajan Aurelius ·
Shoobe, I see the spall problem and the ricochet problem as very similar; the ricochet is the primary projectile; spall is a secondary projectile. Spall liners, inside turrets of any size, capture spall. Ricochets and spall from steel body armor plates can both be contained by a ballistic covering. Both are moving fast enough to cause injury. This is how chicken plates work(ed). Bullets would penetrate the carrier and ballistic covering, slowing it a bit, and hit the ceramic plate beneath...
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Re: Injuries associated to steel plate armor?

TheTick ·
SFF- Are you trying to convince someone to not get them? If so, how about videos of XM193 hitting steel plates? There's a lot and I've found them most effective in getting people to reconsider Couple spalling with the fact that XM193 cruises straight through and it's a no-go.
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Re: Injuries associated to steel plate armor?

SFF ·
Many of the AR500 company's plates they can cover with a rubber-like substance to catch spall (frag) from the bullet striking the plate. This adds thickness (about 1/4") and weight. But how well does it protect the user from spall/frag?
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Re: Injuries associated to steel plate armor?

SFF ·
Yes. Going to show vids and maybe also put some cardboard around some (rifle grade) steel targets that we have to show what happens.
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Re: Injuries associated to steel plate armor?

Linz ·
Or you wear armour to defeat the spall from the plate: https://www.awm.gov.au/collection/REL23774/
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Re: Injuries associated to steel plate armor?

MWL ·
There is a company up here that sells AR500 armour made with some sort of special process and then covered with a coating that is supposed to catch all the spall from multiple rounds. They are S&J Hardware. Regards. Mark
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Re: Injuries associated to steel plate armor?

lowlight ·
Most of the ar500 coatings are just spray on bedliner.
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Re: Injuries associated to steel plate armor?

MAC19D ·
FWIW, last summer one of the students in a class I was teaching had some new steel plate armor. He wanted to shoot them and "see what happens".... ok, it was his idea. I know I have accidentally left a can of paint sitting in front of steel targets, and already know what inevitably happens. Highly unscientific testing followed. There was some kind of a coating on the steel, almost looked like the stuff used as bed liner in the back of my truck. Shot it with some Black Hills 77 grain OTM ammo...
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Re: Injuries associated to steel plate armor?

shoobe01 ·
While I have seen some legit rubbery coating with fibers under that look like spall coating inside armored vehicles, most plate coatings I see are like this. Often even come from the factory with corners chipped off. Unless I missed something about the material properties, spall shields seem like they should not be brittle.
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Re: Injuries associated to steel plate armor?

M. Wilson ·
Put a watermelon (or balloons) above the plate on a stick/support to act as an unscientific analog for their melon and then shoot the plate. Then point out how soft and squishy the underside of ____________'s jaw/neck is and wait for the light bulb to flicker to life. You can also use poster board cut into a 4" wide strip however long and duct tape to build a "frame" (like a cake pan) perpendicular around the edge of the plate to act as a witness card to show that the bullet frags don't just...
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Re: Injuries associated to steel plate armor?

vectorsc ·
There are videos of the ar500 spall guard being shot and the results dont seem that tragic. Their buildup coating is paxcon, which was related to Line-X . If you have been in an MRAP you have seen this same shit. i usually buy ceramic anyway. More comfort in the modern skinny ass plate carriers. https://youtu.be/ZxkJM1elAyc
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Re: Injuries associated to steel plate armor?

LobsterClaw207 ·
This is a timely topic as some of us at work were discussing the same thing. My (also unscientific opinion) having seen steel targets shot, is that the projectile stands a large(r?) chance of richocheting upward into the bottom of my face/neck, or downward into my legs and penis. None of which I want.
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Re: Injuries associated to steel plate armor?

SFF ·
My problem with the anti-spall/frag coatings is that while they may work OK when it's only 1 or 2 shots, but when the bullets come at you in MULTIPLES, they probably don't work so well. Count yourself lucky if it's only 1 or 2 shots. I don't count on luck . . . . Case in point - watch the video of the Dallas officer who was murdered when using the pillar for cover and was flanked . . .
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Re: Injuries associated to steel plate armor?

vectorsc ·
I took an m193 in the plate in back once. Right over the kidney, from about 50 yds. I deleted half of this post because the rest of it could have been lawyered into some bullshit about violating a post lawsuit NDA. I don't think I'm going to take many rounds on the plate if I do get nailed. I would think most of them would be non-center of mass hits and a lucky one or few in the plate protected area. The backface deformation on my early ceramic plate was intense and frankly I think it was on...
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Re: RFI on a White in Color Concealable Plate Carrier and Lightweight Level III+ Plates.

Sinister ·
Beez can handle the carrier. You'll probably want a polyethylene/Dyneema plate set.
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Re: RFI on a White in Color Concealable Plate Carrier and Lightweight Level III+ Plates.

montgomerygentryFan ·
I'm looking to get a custom carrier to put into my outer vest carrier for work and will be hitting up Beez as well. Our department issues Second Chance vests that have two front pockets (standard 5"x8" and 7"x9"). I have the (Safariland) Protech IMPACT RT + 7"x9", but when inside the vest since I have one it's front heavy as hell. Ideally I'd like to use my armor hangar since my locker is kind of small but using steel conflicts with that. Talking with a few guys who went the Dyneema route...
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Re: RFI on a White in Color Concealable Plate Carrier and Lightweight Level III+ Plates.

FastSS ·
I wish the SKD LVBC came in white... Regarding plates: http://www.tyrtactical.com/pro...r-level-3-i-c-plate/ They're a touch over 4lbs, but they also stop things the SPPs won't while still being thin. ETA: I have 10x13s. They're 5.25lbs WITH backers. Forgot to get a weight WITHOUT backers. Oops. 0.70" at the thickest, 0.60" once you're far enough into the middle that the cover stops overlapping.
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Re: RFI on a White in Color Concealable Plate Carrier and Lightweight Level III+ Plates.

SFF ·
Another vote for the Tyr HA 3/7 Plates. I have the 10x12 size. $340 each plate is the good guy price. IIRC, mine are 3.7 lbs and with the cordura cover, about 0.7" thick. Could you have a tailor modify your existing armor carrier to fit plates?
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Re: RFI on a White in Color Concealable Plate Carrier and Lightweight Level III+ Plates.

MOLON_LABE ·
Im digging these, looks like the right thickness.
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Re: RFI on a White in Color Concealable Plate Carrier and Lightweight Level III+ Plates.

MOLON_LABE ·
I could, but then I would get charged for the cost of the vest at turn in time. How did you swing the $340 price point? Everything Im seeing is closer to $400 apeice before taxes and shipping.
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Re: RFI on a White in Color Concealable Plate Carrier and Lightweight Level III+ Plates.

SFF ·
$340 is the LEO price from Tyr. Could you buy an extra carrier and have that modified?
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Re: RFI on a White in Color Concealable Plate Carrier and Lightweight Level III+ Plates.

FastSS ·
They're easy to swallow at $500/ea - $340 is a steal. Considering what the HA3/7s have to offer, and they're worn with a backer anyway in your case, fuck the SPPs. Speed Plate Plus (10x12, 5.1lbs) rifle ratings: 5.56 M193 5.56 M855 7.62x39 MSC http://www.pointblankenterpris...16-product-sheet.pdf TYR HA3/7 (10x12, 3.62lbs) rifle ratings: 5.56 M193 5.56 M855 (and SS109) 5.45x39mm (I believe MSC) 7.62x51 M80 7.62x39 MSC http://www.tyrtactical.com/pro...r-level-3-i-c-plate/
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Re: RFI on a White in Color Concealable Plate Carrier and Lightweight Level III+ Plates.

MOLON_LABE ·
I would prefer not to have to run backers in the interest of keeping things low profile. Beez can't do a solid white carrier. Going to wait until Tuesday to call Mayflower/Velocity Systems, SKD, First Spear, Chase Tactical, Blue Force Gear, Extreme Gear Labs, Grey Ghost Precision, and Tactical Tailor. If none of these guys pan out I will looking into obtaining a spare soft armor carrier and having a plate bag sewn into/onto it.
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Re: RFI on a White in Color Concealable Plate Carrier and Lightweight Level III+ Plates.

FastSS ·
Aren't you wearing 3A anyway? While not official, that should serve as a functionally acceptable backer for the Tyr plates. If you can do BALCS, I'd offer (or threaten) to do some things you wouldn't want anyone else to find out about to obtain one of SKD's LVBCs in white. I had a suit on so lots of layers and noise in front, but I think I could have had at least a front plate without anyone noticing. I try not to talk out of my ass too much, but they're stupidly comfortable and actually...
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Re: RFI on a White in Color Concealable Plate Carrier and Lightweight Level III+ Plates.

KUTF ·
First Spear offers the NOC carrier in white. Not sure it's what you're looking for.
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Re: RFI on a White in Color Concealable Plate Carrier and Lightweight Level III+ Plates.

jsx1043 ·
Mayflower was going to be my first suggestion, (in theory) they could do a custom LPAC for your IIIA panels with the requisite plate pouches. As long as they can do white... I know the Velocity ULV plates and backers had slick white carriers back in the day and they can still be found, but they are still zesty. Maybe Deliberate Dynamics, Ferro Concepts or Perroz Designs for custom work?
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Re: RFI on a White in Color Concealable Plate Carrier and Lightweight Level III+ Plates.

cd228 ·
Velocity Systems shadow works might be worth contacting
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Re: Gear Testers Wanted: new backpack design

XGEP ·
PM sent
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Re: Footwear Armor

Wild_Willie ·
Spider Boots - https://www.med-eng.com/Produc...rotectionSystem.aspx I have actually played around with these a fair bit. A person can RUN in these!
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Re: Footwear Armor

Grayman ·
I'm kind of surprised no one makes a boot with a frag rated insole..... A set of Gaiters with even minor ballistic protection could help with frag/shrapnel injury. Maybe youve got yourself a million $ idea here..
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Re: Footwear Armor

standeasy ·
http://www.aigis.co.uk/anti-mine-boots http://www.securityprousa.com/newblprbomib.html http://www.centurion-usa.com/C...ive_Combat_boot.html http://www.blastboxers.com/
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Re: Footwear Armor

roso ·
Bfrboots.com have been around for a while, and their products seem focused on this issue. No first hand impression beyond seeing these at some booth a while back.
 
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