Tagged With "IR"

Topic

DBAL A 3-

micahSS ·
Question for anybody who would know if this is possible: From my research I understand that the high power (class 3) lasers are legal for civilian ownership, but nobody will sell them to a civilian. I do not want comments of 'why do you need that' , 'you'll void your warrant' or other general thoughts. I have a Class 1 Dbal A3 civilian version with the IR illuminator and slaved green laser. The laser is plenty suitable for my needs, but I find the IR illuminator severely lacking. Per the...
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Re: DBAL A 3-

FastSS ·
If I remember correctly, the current constraints on the IR illuminator are for legalities. The IR lasers have to be eye safe (which is retarded, but that's another discussion). Read further from Romeo7 below. Subjectively speaking, my DBAL-A3 goes out no farther than probably 50 yards. I believe in order to get solid throw, you're going to need to go with LEDs for readily available solutions. Edited, more below
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Re: DBAL A 3-

micahSS ·
I don't think it's illegal to own a high power one, it's just that no manufacturer will sell them for liability reasons- because we all know civilians can't be trusted.... I don't dig the LED's because they glow red. Just irks me.
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Re: DBAL A 3-

Romeo7 ·
It's not illegal to own a high powered IR laser device. Lot's of people own ones acquired before the FDA decided to ban the sale of them to civilians. Some folks were lucky enough to buy units surplussed from police departments or other government agencies. G & R Tactical had a couple of lots of DBALs that they sold years back. The FDA has since cracked down on that and other loopholes. Used to, an individual LEO or .mil guy could buy a laser on agency or organization letterhead and have...
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Re: DBAL A 3-

Mumbles ·
The FDA specifically said it's You've misread, the FDA specifically says it's not illegal for civilians to own high power IR. It's illegal for civilians to buy stolen government IR, and it's illegal for manufacturers to sell high power IR lasers to civilians. But if it's in your possession, and it was never gov't property, you're fine. I can't see any scenario where modifying a legally purchased Class 1 laser would be illegal as long as it's just for personal use and you're not making a...
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Re: DBAL A 3-

treehopr ·
Why not just get a DBAL D2?
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Re: DBAL A 3-

micahSS ·
" One last very important note! If you do acquire a high powered laser aiming device be careful about talking about it online or in real life. This especially applies to PEQ-2, and PEQ-15 ATPIAL owners. The Feds have agents assigned to a task force that scour gun boards and other gathering places looking for these items. They, the agents themselves, have posted on ARFCOM that ANY PEQ-2 or PEQ-15 is stolen US government property and will be seized ASAP. I'm not going to go into the right or...
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Re: DBAL A 3-

FastSS ·
I don't dig the LED glow either, but it is what it is. The IR illum on my DBAL-A3 is just fine for my purposes. I previously stated 75 yards, but dialed it back to 50. My test conditions were what I consider "normal", which is less than optimal. If I'm being honest, I could see better without the illuminator due to the city lit overcast sky. *Edit to add: If the A3 illum did anything under those conditions, it would cause the PVS-14 to throttle back (highly technical term) leaving the spot...
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Re: DBAL A 3-

FastSS ·
Just for information, I've seen a pretty significant change on my newest -A3 (May 2017 production IIRC): Old style switch on left, new on right. It also seems like they're using a different sealant (black vs mostly clear). The new switch works better with bare hands, and a hell of a lot better with gloves. Doesn't make much difference to me. In my low speed .civ world I just leave them set to DH. I use the button on the unit for IR, and a tape switch in vis override for vis. Simple and hard...
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Re: DBAL A 3-

shoobe01 ·
Any answer feeds "damn-guvmint" thoughts, but basically because they certified as effective and regulated the sale of IR lasers for various medical treatments way back when. You can't buy an X-Ray machine either but someone will I am sure sell you a tiny hobby X-ray source that is below the FDA limit. Same thing. To them. Irrelevant to the way regs are written what the application is for a designated-dangerous/Rx-only/etc. device. Since there is no demonstrable national security threat, it's...
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Re: DBAL A 3-

MWL ·
I have a few A3s from about a year earlier than that date, and they have the same black switch, but with black sealant. It originally appeared to me that the switch was installed backwards, as the little "pointy bit" on the switch points in the opposite direction to the long white "handle". It seems a bit pointless having it, as the white "handle" points to the correct setting. Another change, is that the green laser is now direct drive, I believe it is called, rather than a converted red...
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Re: DBAL A 3-

FastSS ·
I thought all of the -A3s had direct drive greens... Not saying you're wrong, just saying I'll be irritable. I think the point that isn't actually a point is to engage the... whatever you call that blue screw that I remove so fast that I forget it ever existed within a couple weeks.
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Re: DBAL A 3-

shoobe01 ·
There are some other threads here on eye safety, and they can very much have applicability to you depending on what you do with it even though it points out the dangerous end of the gun. Two obvious instances: FOF. If you use your real gun or gear, then you better have the eye safe block in before you blind the OPFOR or they will have their friends lead them to your apartment and beat you up later. Reflection. Magnification works just fine for magnifying IR laser, so being far away is not...
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Re: DBAL A 3-

hile ·
That was my thought exactly. I see the point about the FOF considerations, though.
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Re: DBAL A 3-

FastSS ·
Pretty much. IIRC lasers in general were medical first, IR needing to be eye safe due to not being able to see it or some shit. Thankfully, for my applications, the laser itself is more than plenty. The illuminator is a little lacking, but it works well enough for my .civ world. But yes, I do feel silly having an eye safe laser showing me where my not so eye safe bullets are going.
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Re: DBAL A 3-

MWL ·
Not according to Steiner. I spoke with one of the head guys there at SHOT this year, and he confirmed this. I have his card somewhere, and he told me to contact him directly to confirm any serial numbers as to whether they were direct drive. I believe the changeover started sometime early last year. There is/was an FAQ about it on their site. Basically, if your enclosed literature lists the improved cold temperature range, you have direct drive, and the enhancements that came with it. Regards.
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Re: DBAL A 3-

hile ·
How the hell did FDA end up in this mess in the first place? I'm genuinely curious. And what's the most legit way to get a non-neutered IR laser?
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Re: DBAL A 3-

FastSS ·
MWL - By some miracle an archaeological dig through the box next to my bed uncovered the box from my first -A3. It is a Jun2015 unit. The temps listed are the same -40 - 65 C The only differences are: The new Technical manual is stapled together rather than bound like the original. The new unit has a 2 year warranty vs the original 3 year. One of the fucking screws WILL NOT come out of the newest -A3. Brand new hex key on an impact made a round hole. A series of fucked screw extractors...
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Re: DBAL A 3-

MWL ·
After you talk to them, if you wouldn't mind posting here, I'd be interested to hear what they say. Regards. Mark
Topic

IR filters for weapon lights.

ComradeBoris ·
I have a Steiner Mk4 weapon light and am interested in trying to find an IR filter for it. Bezel is 1". I don't see them making any that I can find. While I have a TLR-1 with a filter I like that the Steiner is closer to the suppressor muzzle and doesn't shadow as much when using white light. Does anyone make generic filters that match certain bezel diameters? Thanks in advance.
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Re: IR filters for weapon lights.

Jason K ·
I didn’t think those filters worked at all on led lights. Surefire used to make them for their incandescent lights. I thought I had read on here that is why the vampire series of lights got developed. Jason
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Re: IR filters for weapon lights.

shoobe01 ·
Another +1 there. Incandescents put out a lot of heat (IR), more than light usually. So filters work great on them. LEDs put out much smaller ranges and much less heat. Now, if you want super dim, that can work. I have a compact LED light for general around camp stuff with a screw on filter set. Works great as usually when in filter mode for that you also want super-dim, so it's a nice way to go both low-power and red.
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Re: IR filters for weapon lights.

Default.mp3 ·
More or less correct, LED lights made for the visible spectrum create a negligible amount of IR, so a filter would be practically useless. The filters were designed for incandescent light sources, which output a much broader spectrum of light. My assumption on the Streamlight IR flip caps is that they're simply a left over from the incandescent days.
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Re: IR filters for weapon lights.

ComradeBoris ·
Oh..,.well consider me educated! I knew there had to be some reason I couldn’t find what I was lookin for. Indoors the TLR 1 lens worked in dark rooms but I never tried it outside. What are my options for outdoor IR illum? My Steiner DBAL is just vis and IR laser.
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Re: IR filters for weapon lights.

shoobe01 ·
How outdoors? 100 m, 1000 m?
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Re: IR filters for weapon lights.

Erick ·
As I found out (the hard way) while deployed when I wrote an article on one company's LED weapon light IR filters and LEDs aren't a match. You might check with the various night vision retailers and see if they are aware of anything.
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Re: IR filters for weapon lights.

ComradeBoris ·
Thanks a lot. I’ll take a look at the surefire options. I have some neighbors who don’t approve of my activities so full on trash panda night ops is a must to avoid unwelcome property talks and extra lights to ruin my fun. Gotta love vegetarians with conviction....
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Re: IR filters for weapon lights.

shoobe01 ·
Oh, that's not very far at all. Plenty are trying to do very, very long range illumination for various critters. (Me, I seem to hardly ever need illum so have not been super into it myself). Go skulk some hunting forums, but most suggestions for standalone seem iffy for repeated recoil. a commonly-listed maker is ATN. But I've had them and the Armasight ones (man are they similar... hmmm...) in my hands and just build quality leaves me worried, especially for the $150 and up they tend to...
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Re: IR filters for weapon lights.

ComradeBoris ·
Like 30-40 yards on a super dark night to help with critter patrol. I have some dark spots in my tree line that are tough to see from my roof perch.
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Re: Night vision and Aiming systems

dirtpro ·
Very limited time using nods - less than 50 hours best guess. I've seen discussion on and experienced that single and dual tubes are best for different applications (yay METTTC!). Both have plusses and minuses but a solid mounting system (helmet suspension) is absolutely critical and makes the difference between tolerable vs intolerable. I've yet to run any that are actually comfortable. Right now if i could swing them i'd grab 14s as a monocular seems to be more applicable to a wider range...
Topic

Night vision and Aiming systems

Longeye ·
This thread is for discussion of night vision and the related aiming systems. There are a number of posts scattered around LF, but as far as I can see there is not a single dedicated topic. In the aftermath of Hogpocolypse, it struck me that a consolidated topic would be useful. As I find links to individual posts I will add them in this first post. So, any comments, questions or observations about buying, using, or setting up NVG devices and the associated IR aiming and illumination systems...
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Re: Night vision and Aiming systems

MOJONIXON ·
Ok. I’ll play. Question, and I think I know the answer. If one is using a thermal device, does IR illumination do anything to enhance what you can see? Seems like based on thermal being heat and IR being part of the light spectrum, the answer should be, no it doesn’t help. Am I correct in this thought process? Thanks for doing this Longeye, as this past Saturday at Hogpocalypse was my first exposure to using NV equipment. And as a side note, it was a pleasure to finally meet up and shake...
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Re: Night vision and Aiming systems

Post Car ·
I'm interested in this specifically from a work standpoint. We run ANVIS systems on our flight helmets, but if someone was looking for a "budget" self defense/patrol rifle set up with NVG's and aiming equipment, where would you turn? I had huge issues with nausea and headaches running a PVS-14 monocular so binos/dual tube would have to be it for non-weapon mounted NVGs.
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Re: Night vision and Aiming systems

FastSS ·
My use of NV has been entirely in observation, and generally under some fucking abysmal conditions. Garbage like this is fairly common around here, and NV certainly struggles with it. This is a fairly dated picture, but it shows roughly how my helmet and rifle(s) are set up. The NVD is an auto-gated TNV/PVS-14 ITT Gen3 Pinnacle. The MFAL is a DBAL-A3. Considering my use as an observation tool first and foremost, it made sense to have an illuminator on my helmet. The illuminator on the DBAL...
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Re: Night vision and Aiming systems

HomoSepian ·
Standard NVGs use visible light and the near IR spectrum (short-wavelength IR) Thermal uses the far IR, or long-wavelength IR spectrum (heat). They are different technologies (unless you’re using a fusion unit).
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Re: Night vision and Aiming systems

Diz ·
Lots of guys have way more experience than me, but I will share what I know. I am an armed civilian "prepper" as they call us today, getting ready for come-what-may. Many of you know all this shit, but for those that don't. My needs for NV are for night patrolling to interdict hostiles coming into my area, in a WROL type scenario. This used to get laughed at soundly, but with current events, I think the need is becoming more possible if not likely. There was a time when big name trainers...
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Re: Night vision and Aiming systems

MOJONIXON ·
DIZ, nice post, lots of info there to absorb, thanks.
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Re: Night vision and Aiming systems

dirtpro ·
TNVC has quite a bit of info out on nods, John Lovell did several when he was with Telluric as well. Not sure how various instructors are viewed here but I've learned a lot from both.
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Re: Night vision and Aiming systems

shoobe01 ·
Worth expanding this to talk about the night operations ecosystem, for those not familiar with it, or just want to stick to helmets, mounts, NODS, lasers, illuminators, scopes, and clipons? I don't have a full training PPT, but have the instructor notes outline for some of those we've taught if you want me to bring up all sorts of other annoying topics. Example of one I did write up in detail is cateyes, re-posted and further commented on here: https://www.lightfighter.net/topic/cateyes...
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Re: Night vision and Aiming systems

Longeye ·
Mojo, HomoSapien touched on this- IR illumination does nothing to help with thermal. They are completly seperate systems and generally speaking have different roles- as you saw during the hog hunt- Thermal for seaching, NOD for closing and killing. Post Car, Have you tried the orange shade Wilcox filter? It helps with eye strain and prevents the green halo around your eye if you are not running the eye cup. https://tnvc.com/shop/wilcox-amber-filter/ If you are looking at dual tube the best...
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Re: Night vision and Aiming systems

Kahana ·
I have come to one conclusion. The cheapest thing about the trip to TX, will end up being, THE TRIP TO TX. The fallout is looking to exceed it in multiples....... k
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Re: Night vision and Aiming systems

runningwolf ·
Another note to add, white light is part of your night fighting setup even if you have the best night vision and thermal. The Army has this idea that all you need on your rifle is the PEQ (and trying to replace that with POS FWS-I) thus big army does not issue or train guys to use white light. This is a dangerous mistake that will come to light next time we have any big urban fighting. Get good white light setup and learn to use it, then when you get NVGs learn to use them, then learn to...
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Re: Night vision and Aiming systems

shoobe01 ·
Since there have already been questions that confuse near IR with thermals, the next thing we should discuss in the whole basically how does this work system is thermals. I made this band chart: Old thermals were cooled, and mechanically scanned. This was very tedious, heavy and generally a pain. Ask me how I know. https://www.flickr.com/search/...obeye&view_all=1 Today, every thermal you want to own (trust me!) uses electronically-scanned, uncooled microbolometers , which they call a...
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Re: Night vision and Aiming systems

runningwolf ·
I’ll jump in with some bits and pieces. This is random and in no order. when it comes to fighting at night, your laser system is more important then your NOD. And the Illuminator is the big deal there. Biggest reason I love the MAWL is the Illuminator, second reason is the adjustment from close to mid to long range, flip of a switch over twisting the end as with the PEQ. The Illuminator on a MAWL is super clean and WIDE. On close range mode on indoors the flood is wider then my field of...
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Re: Night vision and Aiming systems

Diz ·
Good post. I am researching laser safe eyewear as we speak.
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Re: Night vision and Aiming systems

Diz ·
Amazon has Premium Laserlenz goggles that protect in current and potential enemy wavelengths. Not cheap but worth not going blind. Have to see how they work with MNVD's. This is a new area. In theory, those with binos and LIF's would have eye pro, but those with Mono's and one LIF would need pro in unaided eye. I would think that some kind of eye pro, with side shields, would be a good idea; a laser filter lens even better. Looks like glasses/goggles are sold for particular wavelength...
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Re: Night vision and Aiming systems

Diz ·
Thanks for weighing guys. Way above my level so I'm learning a lot here.
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Re: Night vision and Aiming systems

shoobe01 ·
Over the holidays I was walking around the house in the relative dark with my NODs on, doing normal household chores while everyone slept, but also getting some practice in. This is the nerd life I lead, using my SIRT before bed, and changing diapers under NODs. It works, if you have a limited training schedule and budget though! As I came though the living room, I noticed the Christmas tree was invisible. It was lit with green LEDs, and they were 100% not visible in the NOD I have. I told...
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Re: Night vision and Aiming systems

SoTex ·
Image Intensification and Thermal are not the same critter. Thermals see no IR light. I2 tech sees no thermal energy practically speaking. Fusion systems are the tits for close range social work if target discrimination is in your job description. Things worth mentioning. Laser shielded eye pro are tuned to certain wavelengths. You need to know what spectrums you are trying to protect against to buy effective laser protected eye pro. This is easily done in a unit environment for FOF. As was...
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Re: Night vision and Aiming systems

shoobe01 ·
LIFs are good. For laser safety, do not forget that magnification magnifies. "Eye safe" generally is to a specific reasonable range, and does NOT consider magnified optics. Magnification works just fine for magnifying IR laser, so being far away is not always safe per basic charts when using high power: a 3x magnifier extends the eye-not-safe distance by 3 x. The funnest one is you could blind yourself when using your own IR laser by reflecting back. Wear a LIF on your ACOG if you are around...
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