Tagged With "jump"

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Can you jump MFF with Esstac KYWI pouches?

Thanatos ·
First super-nerdy question: where do equipment retention rules live for HALO/HAHO jumps? Is there a document, or does a jump master get final say? Can you do a freefall jump with Esstac KYWI pouches, stock or modified, and if the latter, what mods are needed? Just to level-set: I'm 13 jumps into my civilian A-license progression, so it's safe to assume I know less than your family pet about airborne ops.
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Re: Can you jump MFF with Esstac KYWI pouches?

Diz ·
Well there is actually an Airborne Board at Bragg that set these kinds of rules for Mil jump ops, not just MFF. So you start with what's allowed by big army and you go from there. Then you have your local units and what their additional SOP's are. Then you have your team and what their SOP is. In this instance, an individual team may have their own SOP concerning mag pouches- in general- not just for airborne insertion. For example, my buddy's first team had an SOP of top flap mag pouches...
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Re: Can you jump MFF with Esstac KYWI pouches?

ADK ·
Interesting. I would’ve ASSumed that any open top pouch wouldn’t be a good idea.
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Re: Can you jump MFF with Esstac KYWI pouches?

NomadMS ·
I jump MFF, and I would not jump an open top KYWI. I like Esstac KYWIs. I'm still currently testing out some Esstac triple mag panels for my primary rig. But I know for a fact you should not jump them. You can maybe get away with the Esstac Tall pouches during a jump. Esstacs are great for flat range training, weekend warriors, and niche CQB situations, but think about it. You pull the mag out with a small amount of force - with your hand - so your mags are going on a field trip if some...
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Re: Can you jump MFF with Esstac KYWI pouches?

Thanatos ·
It made me feel uncomfortable too, so I rigged up some custom bungee. Sorry guys...should've shared earlier.
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Re: Can you jump MFF with Esstac KYWI pouches?

Thanatos ·
Can you guys see the picture? It's not loading on the thread when I viewing it from my computer.
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Re: Can you jump MFF with Esstac KYWI pouches?

Thanatos ·
2nd try w/ Imgur
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Re: Can you jump MFF with Esstac KYWI pouches?

NomadMS ·
I dig. How do they work?
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Re: Can you jump MFF with Esstac KYWI pouches?

Thanatos ·
So the middle pouch is in secondary retention config (primary retention being the kydex inserts). When I'm done with the evolution requiring secondary retention, I slide that tab you see on top of the mag off the mag, running it wearer's forward along the bungee. I route the bungee around the pouch opening, and then I just tuck that tab under the top row of MOLLE (see left/right pouches for this endstate). I installed the bungee in the *middle* row of pouch MOLLE to buy myself enough slack...
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Re: Can you jump MFF with Esstac KYWI pouches?

NomadMS ·
@Thanatos that looks like an awesome setup. I am trying to move away from kydex but this makes me want to try it out. I have a tall Esstac triple coming so I will rig something like that up and see how it works... so many options, it’s making my head hurt. I am a big fan of bungees, when they’re tensioned properly and set up right they’re perfect. Curious to see how that would work on a Mid Esstac. Going to give that a shot and also what Diz comes up with. I have him modifying a BFG triple...
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Re: Can you jump MFF with Esstac KYWI pouches?

Thanatos ·
@NomadMS if you want a setup that gives you options, C2R (British company) makes kydex insert mag pouches that give you the option to swap out bungees and Velcro flaps. I have 3x and I like them, but they are *just slightly* too narrow for PMAGs (the PMAGs fit snugly, but the over-travel prevention tab on the magazine snags about a third of the time on re-insertion). If you're only using USGI mags, they might be worth a look. Also, C2R is super-responsive on Instagram...if you wanted to ask...
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Re: Can you jump MFF with Esstac KYWI pouches?

NomadMS ·
@Thanatos where did you pick them up? I looked on their site and seems like they aren't selling any pouches.
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Re: Can you jump MFF with Esstac KYWI pouches?

Thanatos ·
I DMed the company via Instagram to place my order, and they emailed me an invoice. Their ig is @c2rfast
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Re: Can you jump MFF with Esstac KYWI pouches?

NomadMS ·
@Thanatos Do the detachable flap/bungee attach via velcro? how do you feel about them vs. the Esstacs with bungees? Instagram is blocked here and I don't have one anyways, I'll shoot them an email.
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Re: Can you jump MFF with Esstac KYWI pouches?

Thanatos ·
The flaps attach by threading the MOLLE attachment straps on the rear of the pouch through two slots in the flaps (they have a built-in MOLLE attachment system very similar to BFG Helium Whisper or Crye 152 pouches). The bungees attach with a tie-off in the back, and a ~1-inch square of Velcro in the front (sort of like the radio bungee on the Crye 152 pouch). I never had a problem with the flaps or bungees themselves. The C2R bungees were actually much easier to keep clear of the pouch...
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Re: Can you jump MFF with Esstac KYWI pouches?

NomadMS ·
Sent them an email. Will see what happens.
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Re: Can you jump MFF with Esstac KYWI pouches?

Astronomy ·
First super-nerdy question: where do equipment retention rules live for HALO/HAHO jumps? #1. For US ARSOF units and some rare Conventional Force Airborne elements that conduct MFF: United States Army Special Operations Command (USASOC) Regulation 350-2 (Training Airborne Operations) and FM 31-19, Military Free Fall Operations. USASOC has Proponency for the Army... and I believe for USN/USAF MFF elements as well. USMC? Hell if I know. Is there a document, (see #1 above). or does a jump master...
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Re: Can you jump MFF with Esstac KYWI pouches?

Thanatos ·
@Astronomy that was incredibly helpful. Thanks!
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Re: Can you jump MFF with Esstac KYWI pouches?

Sinister ·
I wrote the 1988 edition of FM 31-19, Special Forces Military Free Fall Parachuting. This was the transition manual from round to square parachutes. I wrote it in such a way that jumpers and jumpmasters can rig whatever they need to execute their mission -- issued, commercial-off-the-shelf, non-standard, etc. This is because SF may use stuff (including small arms) that is not purchased by Uncle Sam on an outfit-the-entire nation basis. That being said, standard stuff is tested and approved...
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Re: Can you jump MFF with Esstac KYWI pouches?

NomadMS ·
I recently shit-canned all Esstac pouches for use on plate carriers. The velcro mating system for the insert isn't robust (already peeling off my belt-mounted 2x1), the WTFix strap attachment is garbage, and after crawling over some walls and losing a mag from a KYWI, I am not a fan, and most certainly will not jump them MFF now.
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