Tagged With "Plates"

Topic

Too much armor?

Skaster03 ·
Said no one ever. So, I've been saving for a personal set of armored plates for some time. With the added boost from last year's tax return, I've finally tipped over the point and I'm ready to buy. I've poured over the forums here, paying special attention here: http://www.lightfighter.net/to...-officers-start-here and here: http://www.lightfighter.net/to...and-testing-on-vests and especially here: http://www.lightfighter.net/to...ii-patrol-armor-test . Before we dive into gear, I should...
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BZ plates

sawlaw1 ·
I was looking at the common SRT plates, the Tencate 6450 and it's derivatives, the Hesco U210 and the LTC 28720, and I couldn't find info on their drop testing. Do these plates meet the NIJ 101.06 drop test standard?
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The Crye Precision Jumpable Plate Carrier (Origional 1.0)

tugboat12 ·
Having worn this Plate Carrier since 2011 I couldn't be happier with the investment. Here is the story... *If you hate reading, I did a video review as well: https://kitbadger.com/crye-precision-jpc/ * My time in the Service as well as with San Jose Police Department, didn’t leave room for much personal choice with respect to body armor. As I transitioned into the private sector, my choice for body armor and most any other personal equipment was wide open. While they did issue kit if you...
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RFI on a White in Color Concealable Plate Carrier and Lightweight Level III+ Plates.

MOLON_LABE ·
I currently work as a Contracted Armed Security Professional for the U.S. Govt. I am issued a concealable Level IIIA vest that is white in color. The carrier has to be white in order to be worn on duty. Due to the cultural climate and general attitude towards uniformed persons carrying a gun and wearing a badge I have decided I would like to up armor myself with Level III +/Special Threat plates. My issued armor carrier cannot accommodate hard plates of any decent size, (it has the heart...
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New Army/Marine initiative for improved plate carrier

tankersteve ·
https://www.marinecorpstimes.com/articles/new-marines-united-spinoff-drive-includes-image-of-an-unconscious-woman OK, first, ignore the full link wording - Defense News and their .mil Times website has this as the link to the article. My point is that the system being tested looks like it uses First Spear Tubes. Is it one of their PCs? After the Army mess with Multi-cam, I'd be very leery about partnering with DOD/Army if I was a vendor working in that realm. Tankersteve
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Injuries associated to steel plate armor?

SFF ·
Disclaimer, I use and advocate modern ceramic plates. Looking for materials, references, photos, etc. regarding injuries to users of steel plate armor from spall, projectiles that impacted at less than right angles and deflected into the user, etc. Already searched here and elsewhere and not seeing much, but I think that such things often may not make into the public domain due to HIPPA, etc. Much appreciated.
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Rifle Plates/Manufacturers/Distributors - What We Should Know Before Purchasing

HighwayMan93 ·
As you all know, Doc and other sources of knowledge on this subject have stressed that there are actually only a few manufactures of plates and there has been plenty discussion regarding various plate options and promotional offers when they are available. Many companies advertising the same or similar options in the level 3 and 3+ category appear to have prices outrageously marked up, and trying to compare plates from one companies to the next can be a nightmare. Specs for the same plates...
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Can I fit large Plates into a S/M Mayflower APC?

Eagle46 ·
Gents- I've turned in my medium ESAPIs and now have a line on a pair of large LVL IV SAPI sized plates to back fill my now floppy PC. The question is, my PC is a medium Mayflower APC, which not surprisingly is made for small and medium plates. Does anyone know if you can fit large plates into this medium PC? Looking at my PC, my concern is at the plate shoulders - I have enough width and height/length to slide them in, but the APC slopes in at the top, possibly for swimmer's cut. I had a...
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Plate Carriers Revisited: Features of the Next Generation

quadrail ·
Disclaimer: Airsofter, not professional user. A decade of fighting overseas revolutionized the armor carrier market, bringing us from SPEAR vests and OTVs to 6094s and JPCs. Following the drawdown in Iraq and Afghanistan, however, we've seen a dramatic reduction in the size of the tactical gear market, as well as the number of new and innovative designs being brought to market. The products that have been recently introduced seem to be focused on different markets--specifically low-vis,...
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Re: Injuries associated to steel plate armor?

vectorsc ·
There are videos of the ar500 spall guard being shot and the results dont seem that tragic. Their buildup coating is paxcon, which was related to Line-X . If you have been in an MRAP you have seen this same shit. i usually buy ceramic anyway. More comfort in the modern skinny ass plate carriers. https://youtu.be/ZxkJM1elAyc
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Re: Injuries associated to steel plate armor?

LobsterClaw207 ·
This is a timely topic as some of us at work were discussing the same thing. My (also unscientific opinion) having seen steel targets shot, is that the projectile stands a large(r?) chance of richocheting upward into the bottom of my face/neck, or downward into my legs and penis. None of which I want.
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Re: Injuries associated to steel plate armor?

SFF ·
My problem with the anti-spall/frag coatings is that while they may work OK when it's only 1 or 2 shots, but when the bullets come at you in MULTIPLES, they probably don't work so well. Count yourself lucky if it's only 1 or 2 shots. I don't count on luck . . . . Case in point - watch the video of the Dallas officer who was murdered when using the pillar for cover and was flanked . . .
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Re: Injuries associated to steel plate armor?

vectorsc ·
I took an m193 in the plate in back once. Right over the kidney, from about 50 yds. I deleted half of this post because the rest of it could have been lawyered into some bullshit about violating a post lawsuit NDA. I don't think I'm going to take many rounds on the plate if I do get nailed. I would think most of them would be non-center of mass hits and a lucky one or few in the plate protected area. The backface deformation on my early ceramic plate was intense and frankly I think it was on...
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Re: RFI on a White in Color Concealable Plate Carrier and Lightweight Level III+ Plates.

Sinister ·
Beez can handle the carrier. You'll probably want a polyethylene/Dyneema plate set.
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Re: RFI on a White in Color Concealable Plate Carrier and Lightweight Level III+ Plates.

montgomerygentryFan ·
I'm looking to get a custom carrier to put into my outer vest carrier for work and will be hitting up Beez as well. Our department issues Second Chance vests that have two front pockets (standard 5"x8" and 7"x9"). I have the (Safariland) Protech IMPACT RT + 7"x9", but when inside the vest since I have one it's front heavy as hell. Ideally I'd like to use my armor hangar since my locker is kind of small but using steel conflicts with that. Talking with a few guys who went the Dyneema route...
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Re: RFI on a White in Color Concealable Plate Carrier and Lightweight Level III+ Plates.

FastSS ·
I wish the SKD LVBC came in white... Regarding plates: http://www.tyrtactical.com/pro...r-level-3-i-c-plate/ They're a touch over 4lbs, but they also stop things the SPPs won't while still being thin. ETA: I have 10x13s. They're 5.25lbs WITH backers. Forgot to get a weight WITHOUT backers. Oops. 0.70" at the thickest, 0.60" once you're far enough into the middle that the cover stops overlapping.
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Re: RFI on a White in Color Concealable Plate Carrier and Lightweight Level III+ Plates.

SFF ·
Another vote for the Tyr HA 3/7 Plates. I have the 10x12 size. $340 each plate is the good guy price. IIRC, mine are 3.7 lbs and with the cordura cover, about 0.7" thick. Could you have a tailor modify your existing armor carrier to fit plates?
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Re: RFI on a White in Color Concealable Plate Carrier and Lightweight Level III+ Plates.

MOLON_LABE ·
Im digging these, looks like the right thickness.
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Re: RFI on a White in Color Concealable Plate Carrier and Lightweight Level III+ Plates.

MOLON_LABE ·
I could, but then I would get charged for the cost of the vest at turn in time. How did you swing the $340 price point? Everything Im seeing is closer to $400 apeice before taxes and shipping.
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Re: RFI on a White in Color Concealable Plate Carrier and Lightweight Level III+ Plates.

SFF ·
$340 is the LEO price from Tyr. Could you buy an extra carrier and have that modified?
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Re: RFI on a White in Color Concealable Plate Carrier and Lightweight Level III+ Plates.

FastSS ·
They're easy to swallow at $500/ea - $340 is a steal. Considering what the HA3/7s have to offer, and they're worn with a backer anyway in your case, fuck the SPPs. Speed Plate Plus (10x12, 5.1lbs) rifle ratings: 5.56 M193 5.56 M855 7.62x39 MSC http://www.pointblankenterpris...16-product-sheet.pdf TYR HA3/7 (10x12, 3.62lbs) rifle ratings: 5.56 M193 5.56 M855 (and SS109) 5.45x39mm (I believe MSC) 7.62x51 M80 7.62x39 MSC http://www.tyrtactical.com/pro...r-level-3-i-c-plate/
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Re: RFI on a White in Color Concealable Plate Carrier and Lightweight Level III+ Plates.

MOLON_LABE ·
I would prefer not to have to run backers in the interest of keeping things low profile. Beez can't do a solid white carrier. Going to wait until Tuesday to call Mayflower/Velocity Systems, SKD, First Spear, Chase Tactical, Blue Force Gear, Extreme Gear Labs, Grey Ghost Precision, and Tactical Tailor. If none of these guys pan out I will looking into obtaining a spare soft armor carrier and having a plate bag sewn into/onto it.
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Re: RFI on a White in Color Concealable Plate Carrier and Lightweight Level III+ Plates.

FastSS ·
Aren't you wearing 3A anyway? While not official, that should serve as a functionally acceptable backer for the Tyr plates. If you can do BALCS, I'd offer (or threaten) to do some things you wouldn't want anyone else to find out about to obtain one of SKD's LVBCs in white. I had a suit on so lots of layers and noise in front, but I think I could have had at least a front plate without anyone noticing. I try not to talk out of my ass too much, but they're stupidly comfortable and actually...
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Re: RFI on a White in Color Concealable Plate Carrier and Lightweight Level III+ Plates.

KUTF ·
First Spear offers the NOC carrier in white. Not sure it's what you're looking for.
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Re: RFI on a White in Color Concealable Plate Carrier and Lightweight Level III+ Plates.

jsx1043 ·
Mayflower was going to be my first suggestion, (in theory) they could do a custom LPAC for your IIIA panels with the requisite plate pouches. As long as they can do white... I know the Velocity ULV plates and backers had slick white carriers back in the day and they can still be found, but they are still zesty. Maybe Deliberate Dynamics, Ferro Concepts or Perroz Designs for custom work?
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Re: RFI on a White in Color Concealable Plate Carrier and Lightweight Level III+ Plates.

cd228 ·
Velocity Systems shadow works might be worth contacting
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Re: Injuries associated to steel plate armor?

JF ·
Sorry no data, but unless there's something to reliably capture the fragments/projectile then they are going to strike something in a 360 degree area around the impact. I like this video to show new instructors about the safety considerations when setting up a steel range sessions. https://www.youtubedotcom/watch?v=QfDoQwIAaXg
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Re: Injuries associated to steel plate armor?

Sinister ·
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flak_jacket http://history.amedd.army.mil/...blstcs/chapter11.htm https://books.google.com/books...20wounds&f=false http://history.amedd.army.mil/...cs/wwii/woundblstcs/ http://www.dtic.mil/dtic/tr/fulltext/u2/688122.pdf http://ww2f.com/threads/questi...ng-body-armor.15223/ https://books.google.com/books...20wounds&f=false
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Re: Injuries associated to steel plate armor?

SFF ·
Relating to this, if you look at videos in which bad guys engage officers, they rapid fire (Dallas being only 1 such incident) and all those rounds, should they hit steel, create a lot of spall. Further, in reality, angles of fire are not 90 degrees, so after those bullets hit steel, they are likely to leave as a more or less intact projectile, with significant wounding/fatality potential.
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Re: Injuries associated to steel plate armor?

Trajan Aurelius ·
This has been a known issue since the intersection of armor and bullets, only the degree has changed. The IJN Battleship Musashi had a spall liner inside each of its 18.1 inch three gun turrets and I am sure this was a wide spread practice in the Imperial Japanese Navy. The liner was made of 9 mm think silk to absorb spall. In the Vietnam War, helicopter crew were issued ceramic "chicken plates" with a ballistic nylon cover to capture spall from the shattered ceramic plates. There are a...
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Re: Injuries associated to steel plate armor?

shoobe01 ·
Cool video. But let's be clear, the fragments that come off a plate even without ricochet are moderately unpleasant. They eat away at concrete and metal over time. Softer materials (fabrics, chipboard) handle them better I guess because they are fast but very lightweight, but I wouldn't want my head in the way. I have heard many, many anecdotal stories, and over the years seen a handful of autoposy diagrams and AAR photos of serious ricochets from steel rifle and trauma plates. But I cannot...
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Re: Injuries associated to steel plate armor?

shoobe01 ·
Question (not challenge): I thought spall liners were to stop spall. Spall being the armor itself turning into secondary projectiles from deformation or penetration by a projectile, explosive force, or other mechanical effect. And I thought I had seen in detail (somewere, probably a book I cannot search with google!) that spall protective materials may or may not be useful to protect against ricochet, as they are designed/selected to protect against fragments forming in contact with the...
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Re: Injuries associated to steel plate armor?

Trajan Aurelius ·
Shoobe, I see the spall problem and the ricochet problem as very similar; the ricochet is the primary projectile; spall is a secondary projectile. Spall liners, inside turrets of any size, capture spall. Ricochets and spall from steel body armor plates can both be contained by a ballistic covering. Both are moving fast enough to cause injury. This is how chicken plates work(ed). Bullets would penetrate the carrier and ballistic covering, slowing it a bit, and hit the ceramic plate beneath...
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Re: Injuries associated to steel plate armor?

TheTick ·
SFF- Are you trying to convince someone to not get them? If so, how about videos of XM193 hitting steel plates? There's a lot and I've found them most effective in getting people to reconsider Couple spalling with the fact that XM193 cruises straight through and it's a no-go.
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Re: Injuries associated to steel plate armor?

SFF ·
Many of the AR500 company's plates they can cover with a rubber-like substance to catch spall (frag) from the bullet striking the plate. This adds thickness (about 1/4") and weight. But how well does it protect the user from spall/frag?
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Re: Injuries associated to steel plate armor?

SFF ·
Yes. Going to show vids and maybe also put some cardboard around some (rifle grade) steel targets that we have to show what happens.
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Re: Injuries associated to steel plate armor?

Linz ·
Or you wear armour to defeat the spall from the plate: https://www.awm.gov.au/collection/REL23774/
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Re: Injuries associated to steel plate armor?

MWL ·
There is a company up here that sells AR500 armour made with some sort of special process and then covered with a coating that is supposed to catch all the spall from multiple rounds. They are S&J Hardware. Regards. Mark
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Re: Injuries associated to steel plate armor?

lowlight ·
Most of the ar500 coatings are just spray on bedliner.
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Re: Injuries associated to steel plate armor?

MAC19D ·
FWIW, last summer one of the students in a class I was teaching had some new steel plate armor. He wanted to shoot them and "see what happens".... ok, it was his idea. I know I have accidentally left a can of paint sitting in front of steel targets, and already know what inevitably happens. Highly unscientific testing followed. There was some kind of a coating on the steel, almost looked like the stuff used as bed liner in the back of my truck. Shot it with some Black Hills 77 grain OTM ammo...
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Re: Injuries associated to steel plate armor?

shoobe01 ·
While I have seen some legit rubbery coating with fibers under that look like spall coating inside armored vehicles, most plate coatings I see are like this. Often even come from the factory with corners chipped off. Unless I missed something about the material properties, spall shields seem like they should not be brittle.
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Re: Injuries associated to steel plate armor?

M. Wilson ·
Put a watermelon (or balloons) above the plate on a stick/support to act as an unscientific analog for their melon and then shoot the plate. Then point out how soft and squishy the underside of ____________'s jaw/neck is and wait for the light bulb to flicker to life. You can also use poster board cut into a 4" wide strip however long and duct tape to build a "frame" (like a cake pan) perpendicular around the edge of the plate to act as a witness card to show that the bullet frags don't just...
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Re: Plate Carriers Revisited: Features of the Next Generation

Longeye ·
I have a number of thoughts- maybe not all then are what you are expecting. I should have some time in the morning for a reply.
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Re: Plate Carriers Revisited: Features of the Next Generation

rcbusmc24 ·
For what I do, dismounted infantry stuff, my goal is lighter and slicker. I want a new carrier that is unobtrusive, fits with the ruck, carries the new issue USMC lightweight plates. It needs to have no bulk in the shoulder region and there should be a few fittings on it to allow for the attachment of swift-clip placards and chest rigs for limited mounted use/ urban combat. it should have the ability to be used with a simple elastic cummerbund strap system or a full cummerbund system that...
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Re: Plate Carriers Revisited: Features of the Next Generation

Diz ·
Yeah been thinking about this myself. I am also of the opinion of having a slick PC, that is scalable to a certain extent, but agree that the belt line is where I want the majority of my kit. A micro chest rig for use in conjunction with, and maybe a small back bag. Need more info on size/shape of new USMC plates.
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Re: Plate Carriers Revisited: Features of the Next Generation

sixtop ·
I think if someone were to take a step back and build a carrier that is goal orientated and not feature orientated then you would see a superior product. I feel that too many companies throw a bunch of features on gear (packs, carriers, belts, etc) with out focusing on what the carrier should accomplish and then allowing the features to follow.It really seems that companies will see a competitors product, copy it, then throw on a feature or enhancement and call it good. What really needs to...
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Re: Plate Carriers Revisited: Features of the Next Generation

runningwolf ·
So plate carrier designs haven’t went stagnant, there is near continual development, most of it being very specialized, with a heavy focus on SOF and LE. This is because with the war winding down the most of the fighting is being done by SOF. You also has GP forces going back into a Garrison mindset and upper leadership forgetting the lessons of the past almost 2 decades and putting out memos that soldiers will only wear the issued armor set up exactly the same. PEO Soldier has no interest...
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Re: Plate Carriers Revisited: Features of the Next Generation

Rob K. ·
Your question shouldn't be addressed solely in the framework of a plate carrier, it really is a much broader topic than that. " Following the drawdown in Iraq and Afghanistan, however, we've seen a dramatic reduction in the size of the tactical gear market, as well as the number of new and innovative designs being brought to market." There isn't necessarily a correlation here; at face value "drawdown" does seem to be a convenient explanation for why innovation seems to have slowed, but i'm...
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Re: Plate Carriers Revisited: Features of the Next Generation

Rob K. ·
I'd also like to offer that most of the things you've suggested as 'next generation' really aren't. Its still the same widget, you're just refining it more. Integrated admin pockets, kangaroo pockets, fewer layers etc are still incremental changes in existing products. Those are also mostly based around convenience, not because of necessity. I look at 'generations' as the shifts from PASGT vest, to Interceptor Body Armor.. or where we've come with helmets: PASGT to MICH to OPS Core.
 
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