I'm trying to educate some people in my agency.  In short, I'm looking for terminal performance data of shotgun slugs through barriers.

I've gone through the typical internet searches, and looked Box 'o Truth websites, and man, there is a ton of junk out there.

I also have Doc Roberts white papers from 2012 and 2013, but they don't have data of slugs through barriers.  We all know they perform well, but I would like something definitive.

Does anyone have anything that's not anecdotal or a cheesy youtube video?

Original Post

If you cannot get a complete car- see if the local salvage yard will hook you up with a couple of doors with glass and a front windshield..

I did this a couple years ago and the whole setup ( 4 doors and 3 windshields) cost me 20 bucks. Well worth it. (probably didn't hurt that I told the yard owner he could attend the demonstration -- so he KNEW they weren't being gamed.....)

------------------------------------- "A True Warrior knows neither Left or Right"  Looking for a doc who can fix my allergies.. Stupid People and IED's...

SFF - thanks for your inside help!

Erick - Great suggestion.  You want to take a drive up the 101 and help out?  Maybe September?  At my range, I can probably shoot north and west safely, so not ideal for using the whole car, but it could be enough.  I'll make some phone calls to the tow companies.  It's not like we don't give them business.

David - Another good idea.  Did you prop up the glass/doors with targets behind them?  Got any photos?

Windshields set in a 2x4 frame laid back to approximate the slope angle that you would see in most ghetto rides. Doors were suspended on 2x4 frames as well..We used old store mannequins that were donated by Sears as targets.

I dunno if I have any of the pics from the range session- but I will check.

------------------------------------- "A True Warrior knows neither Left or Right"  Looking for a doc who can fix my allergies.. Stupid People and IED's...

HazardZetForward posted:

Erick - Great suggestion.  You want to take a drive up the 101 and help out?  Maybe September?  At my range, I can probably shoot north and west safely, so not ideal for using the whole car, but it could be enough.  I'll make some phone calls to the tow companies.  It's not like we don't give them business.

I've got some free time in September and more after that. Just tell me what off-ramp to use! 

You guys are motivating me to really put something together.  For the record: I'm all the way up by the Cal/Oregon border.

I have ammo, but not Brenneke slugs.  They're not really available to me on our contracting.

I've been doing some semi-formal testing with 14" barrels, 18" barrels, modified and Imp Cyl chokes, and the results are not what I expected.  I'm also attending Sully's rifle armorer course next week, and I'm going to bug the crap out of him.

I'll keep you posted.  Thanks for all your interest!

Reach out to the firearms guys at LAPD. They put on a slug course for their troops. From what I heard it is a good course, more than just fam fire. Unfortunately my connects there have retired but I’m sure their training division can help

 

T

HazardZetForward posted:

 

I've been doing some semi-formal testing with 14" barrels, 18" barrels, modified and Imp Cyl chokes, and the results are not what I expected.  

I'll keep you posted.  Thanks for all your interest!

Do you have cliff notes on your results?

Longeye posted:
HazardZetForward posted:

 

I've been doing some semi-formal testing with 14" barrels, 18" barrels, modified and Imp Cyl chokes, and the results are not what I expected.  

I'll keep you posted.  Thanks for all your interest!

Do you have cliff notes on your results?

What I previously learned: 1) choke has much more of an effect on buckshot spread pattern than barrel length.  2) Don't shoot slugs out of a choke tighter than Imp Cyl.

Turns out, my 14" barrel is a Modified Choke, and I just never looked at it when I bought it from Remington.  (All 870's)  But I'm getting a much tighter pattern from the 18" Imp Cyl barrel than the 14" Mod barrel.  Which is the opposite of what I expected.  This is from both Federal Flite Control LE12700 and Win Super X 00.

Now, I've also shot several hundred rounds of slug out of the 14" Mod barrel, before I realized it was the tighter choke.  Granted, this is just lead rifled slugs and frangible slugs, not the hardened Brenneke stuff.

That's the cliff notes!

I know this test of slugs isn’t that scientific. It has changed my mind however about Foster slugs for HD. They will penetrate hard barriers well yet flatten and break up in soft medium. They do not over penetrate in these videos. Buckshot penetrates further in soft medium. I now keep our HD M590A1 loaded with slugs as I see no downside in HD application. 

https://youtu.be/7HuVkXLreWE


https://youtu.be/5oDG2i6rwjU

gdonley308 posted:

Buckshot penetrates further in soft medium. I now keep our HD M590A1 loaded with slugs as I see no downside in HD application. 

Totally anecdotal and apples to oranges but I've seen Foster slugs  cut clean holes through both sides of deer and buckshot stay within the human body.

Others here have more experience and maybe different experiences.   

My home shotguns are loaded with buck  and one of the reasons is due to the deeper penetration of slugs that I've seen.

YMMV

There is no left or right.

There is only tyranny or freedom. 

Vista's LE site has gel test, chrony, and recovered-projectile sections on their website. Working/whole cars were always a PITA, so I got tailgates, seats, doors, windshields etc from a local yard. If gel is an issue logistically, a Fackler box can be set up behind the barrier. 

I typically demo pistol, rifle and slug shots on old vests, car doors, and wall sections during rookie train-ups and patrol rifle courses. Angle of impact has been a big factor with some types/brands of lead Foster-style slugs.

Our shotgun use has been severely restricted, mainly LL and breaching. We inventory the DPRS slug and FliteControl full-power 00B for standard use; mix of 14" and 18.5" tubed M590A1s, mainly drawn by SWAT folks.

Condition Yellow: For a Longer, Happier Life

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