My four month old Salomons were pretty much trashed a week or so ago on a rescue/hazmat incident, so HH6 gave the go ahead for new boots.

I ordered a pair of the new 2018 Salomon XA Forces Mid GTX in black from optactical.  Process was painless and quick as is the norm for those folks.  

The new boots are, for me, a huge improvement over the older model.  Granted, much of this is subjective.

First, the width.  The old Salomons were constantly tight on me and I could only wear super thin Smartwool socks with them.  Anything thicker and they became painful.  I occasionally had an issue with a plantar faciatis type pain with the older ones, but that wasn't unusual for me.  This wasn't anything remarkable new as I fall between a regular and wide width shoe, depending on the shoe cut.

The new ones are exceptionally comfortable.  The width is perfect.  Thus far I've worn them with both thin Smartwool socks and thicker Wigwam socks and both fit comfortable.  I'd say the width on these is much closer to what we as westerners are used to in a regular width shoe cut.

Second, the sole.  One of my gripes with my older Salomons is that there were times I felt like I was walking on a wooden block.  The new ones feel much more like a hiking/tactical boot, in fact very similar to my under armor boots in terms of sole flexibility and comfort.  Granted I'm not rucking or running anymore but climbing in and out of an aircraft and standing on scenes for extended periods of time these, subjectively, feel much more comfortable.

Third and finally, again subjectively, ankle support.  My older Salomons reay felt like they locked my ankles into place.  While this may seem like a good point, I started finding myself with some discomfort because of how supportive they were.  The newer ones seem to be more flexible but I still feel like I have the support of a quality boot.

Anyway, ranting over.  I know it's very subjective, but to a relatively new Salomon user (around 5 months total now) these seem like a big improvement over the older models in terms of all day comfort.

Original Post

I followed the instructions on the sizing chart at optactical and measured out at a size 11.   I ordered just a plain size 11 from there and it fits me some where between a regular and wide. 

In military boots I'm an 11W, in merrells a 12, in under armor a 12W

Which model were you wearing previously?

My Domestic Boss is trying to get me to trash my current Salomon 4D GTXs, after I had to put a chest tube in a guy this week, and about a half-liter of some nasty exudate gushed out onto my pants/boots.  I dropped the pants in the hospital laundry, and washed off the boots, but she's pretty concerned about the potential Biohazard.

And I'm pushing back on trashing them... because I love these boots. 

“One sometimes gets the impression that the mere words ‘Socialism’ and ‘Communism’ draw towards them with magnetic force every fruit-juice drinker, nudist, sandal-wearer, sex-maniac, Quaker, ‘Nature Cure’ quack, pacifist, and feminist in England,”  -George Orwell-

Post Car posted:

I followed the instructions on the sizing chart at optactical and measured out at a size 11.   I ordered just a plain size 11 from there and it fits me some where between a regular and wide. 

In military boots I'm an 11W, in merrells a 12, in under armor a 12W

I went a half size up with the older model, primarily looking for more width.  Would you recommend doing the same with the 2018 model?

I just picked up a pair of the '18 XA Forces Mid (non gtx) last week.  Fit is perfect, very comfortable. I did not have the older ones, but tried them on a few times and find the wider toe box is a better fit.  Salomon's are a bit of a weird fit for me, as I need a 12.5 in them (and could never find the mids in stock anywhere in that size), while I take a 13 in just about everything else. The only other boots I've had that have been this good of a fit out of the box for me, were my 1st gen (US made) Oakley SI desert boots (and those were 13w).

I. Really. Should. Not. Read. Posts. About. New. Boots.

Damned expensive this forum is.

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“Fate whispers to the warrior, ‘You cannot withstand the storm.’ The warrior whispers back, ‘I am the storm.’”

 

Joined: 2003          Location: At home pretending to be retired (again).

I just bought my fourth pair of black Forces Mids right before they released the new ones

-------- "We have one country, one Constitution and one future that binds us. And when we come together and work together, there is no limit to the greatness of America." -George W. Bush

The coyote is definitely an improvement over the 'burro brown'. Now that I've got over last nights 'buyer's remorse' I'm looking forward to getting mine and testing them in the Kyrenia mountains in April. They also seem a lot more robust based just on looks.

Apparently they have used the same foot last as the Quest 4D boot, so the 2018 XA is 6mm wider in the toe box than the previous XA model for you hobbitses.

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“Fate whispers to the warrior, ‘You cannot withstand the storm.’ The warrior whispers back, ‘I am the storm.’”

 

Joined: 2003          Location: At home pretending to be retired (again).

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HomoSepian posted:

My Domestic Boss is trying to get me to trash my current Salomon 4D GTXs, after I had to put a chest tube in a guy this week, and about a half-liter of some nasty exudate gushed out onto my pants/boots.  I dropped the pants in the hospital laundry, and washed off the boots, but she's pretty concerned about the potential Biohazard.

And I'm pushing back on trashing them... because I love these boots. 

If you are forced to change, I'd recommend the 5.11 XPRT 3.0 boots. Very similar fit and feel to the Salomon 4D GTX and have  eVent lining which 5.11 claims is BBP protective as well as waterproof. I love my Salomon 4Ds for wet-weather wear but I find I am wearing the 5.11s more and more often. I've not been a fan of 5.11s other footwear iterations but these, so far, rock.

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“Fate whispers to the warrior, ‘You cannot withstand the storm.’ The warrior whispers back, ‘I am the storm.’”

 

Joined: 2003          Location: At home pretending to be retired (again).

I've switched pretty much exclusively to 4Ds as a K9 handler. The wider sole base really does a great job preventing ankle rolling; like a squat shoe. I haven't worn the 3Ds since 2013ish? They were an ok patrolman's boot except that the sole wore thru quick and when I jumped to K9 the body got thrashed.  But I picked up the 2018 version after reading that the body materials were changed to those of the 4D and the sole was redone. They do feel like the little brother now. I'm saving them for warmer weather but am excited to see how they hold up.

I picked up a set of the 4D Quests a couple of weeks ago and can't say enough good things about them.  They replaced my Danners which shit the bed on me.  I expected more of a hiking boot feel, but these feel more like wearing a pair of sneakers.  As to sizing, I've always been a 9D in Danners and the 9 Salomon a Quests fit the same.  These are going to be my cold/wet wax boots.  Gonna pick a pair of the XAs for the warmer months.

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Joined:  3/14/2011                Location:  KY
 
quote:
Originally posted by Dorsai:
Never argue with an idiot.  They'll just drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.
Lightfighter posted:

We haven't updated our web with the updated forces line, but we've sold some and people are happy. I don't have any first hand experience with the fit compared to my other Salomons, but I do especially like the new colors.

When are you going to have the new ones posted up?

“One sometimes gets the impression that the mere words ‘Socialism’ and ‘Communism’ draw towards them with magnetic force every fruit-juice drinker, nudist, sandal-wearer, sex-maniac, Quaker, ‘Nature Cure’ quack, pacifist, and feminist in England,”  -George Orwell-

HomoSepian posted:
Lightfighter posted:

We haven't updated our web with the updated forces line, but we've sold some and people are happy. I don't have any first hand experience with the fit compared to my other Salomons, but I do especially like the new colors.

When are you going to have the new ones posted up?

If I can take a break from adding Pelican to our system (getting ready for the group buy), I'll try and update Salomon this weekend?

Brad

Do whatever you need to do to keep the bottom line black... my replacement boots can wait (and I already have two other pairs in reserve).  

Do the pelican group buy first.  

“One sometimes gets the impression that the mere words ‘Socialism’ and ‘Communism’ draw towards them with magnetic force every fruit-juice drinker, nudist, sandal-wearer, sex-maniac, Quaker, ‘Nature Cure’ quack, pacifist, and feminist in England,”  -George Orwell-

HomoSepian posted:

Do the pelican group buy first.  

Too late. I'm a glutton for punishment. Spent the morning updating Salomon!

Here is the link to the whole collection: https://nelsonuniform.com/coll...ns/vendors?q=Salomon

And specifically, the new boots:

https://nelsonuniform.com/prod...uardian-uniform-boot

https://nelsonuniform.com/prod...ra-forces-cswp-boots

https://nelsonuniform.com/prod...forces-mid-gtx-boots

Based on this thread I picked up a pair of non-GTX version in coyote from OPT.

Arrived this morning so not much to review yet, but the hour or so I spent walking around the neighborhood they are nice. They wear like a trail runner but a tad bit more weight.

Curious to see how they do on the bike(my main method of transportation). In my experience the harder composition rubber soles don't grip pedals well and sorta slide around tho the tread on these may balance that out. Too moist here in the area so no mountianbiking or trail time this weekend, but will be in the woods in a few weeks for some training so will see how they do then. 

Shoot, 1/2 of what I said about them disappeared.

They are snug in the heal and and generously wide in the toe box. I wear a 11.5 most of the time and that's what I ordered after measuring per their sizing instructions. Fit as expected. 

 

 

Mine just arrived. Lots more room in the toe box and a much 'chunkier' design that will hopefully last a lot longer

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“Fate whispers to the warrior, ‘You cannot withstand the storm.’ The warrior whispers back, ‘I am the storm.’”

 

Joined: 2003          Location: At home pretending to be retired (again).

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Follow up to my initial review.   

I finally got to both cycle and wear these in the woods.
As suspected, they are not great for cycling even with a pedal with aggressive grip(Raceface Chester, if you care), the harder rubber sole just slides a bit too much until I get full weight on to engage the grippy bits of the pedal.

Night ops training last weekend, I wore them all day on concrete, swampy grass, muddy logging road and cross-country in a night lane. Oh and in Shoobe's truck for the 5+ hour drive.
Going into the course I had acquired a foot injury, unrelated to the boot, I have a bunion on my right foot and had a flare up in the connective tissues.   Wearing the boot actually helped, very supportive and I was able to snug up the laces and immobilize it for the movement portions. My foot still hurt but I was very effectively able to move unlike my daily footwear. 

Like I said, these wear like a trail runner, the low cut gave me good articulation at the ankle and the stiffness of the outer gave me good support and protection in the movement phases.  The tread provided good traction on the swampy grass and mud of the logging road. Logging road is fairly steep and had no problems keeping upright moving at night w/ full assault pack under NODs.

The lightness of these was great for the night movement portions. Gave a better feel moving in the darkness, I find heavier boots lessen the sensation and you end up kicking over rock and sticks and making a racket and shit.  These are light enough that when you foot hits something, you notice and can react,  you don't go crashing thru it like a pendulum.

Buy these boots!

 

Lightfighter posted:

We just got the first few pairs of the revised XA Forces and my initial assessment mirrors STANDEASY's. These are nice. Really nice.  

Brad

Brad, are you going to carry the non-GTX version?  I'd be in for a pair sometime in the near future if you do (my Timberlands are getting a little long in the tooth at almost a year old).  I ask because I did not find them on your site.

Mojo/Mark
__________________________
Yo homey, is that my briefcase...?
Vincent from "Collateral"
__________________________
You want the good life, you break your back, you snap your fingers, you snap your neck... Prong/Demon Hunter
__________________________

Because...I Can. 


Joined: 9/30/09
Location: Northern Nevada (Reno/Sparks)

MOJONIXON posted:
Lightfighter posted:

We just got the first few pairs of the revised XA Forces and my initial assessment mirrors STANDEASY's. These are nice. Really nice.  

Brad

Brad, are you going to carry the non-GTX version?  I'd be in for a pair sometime in the near future if you do (my Timberlands are getting a little long in the tooth at almost a year old).  I ask because I did not find them on your site.

I fixed the website - here they are:

https://nelsonuniform.com/prod.../xa-forces-mid-boots

Thanks!

Brad

Lightfighter posted:
MOJONIXON posted:
Lightfighter posted:

We just got the first few pairs of the revised XA Forces and my initial assessment mirrors STANDEASY's. These are nice. Really nice.  

Brad

Brad, are you going to carry the non-GTX version?  I'd be in for a pair sometime in the near future if you do (my Timberlands are getting a little long in the tooth at almost a year old).  I ask because I did not find them on your site.

I fixed the website - here they are:

https://nelsonuniform.com/prod.../xa-forces-mid-boots

Thanks!

Brad

Thanks, Brad. Much appreciated. 

Mojo/Mark
__________________________
Yo homey, is that my briefcase...?
Vincent from "Collateral"
__________________________
You want the good life, you break your back, you snap your fingers, you snap your neck... Prong/Demon Hunter
__________________________

Because...I Can. 


Joined: 9/30/09
Location: Northern Nevada (Reno/Sparks)

standeasy posted:

If you are forced to change, I'd recommend the 5.11 XPRT 3.0 boots. Very similar fit and feel to the Salomon 4D GTX and have  eVent lining which 5.11 claims is BBP protective as well as waterproof. I love my Salomon 4Ds for wet-weather wear but I find I am wearing the 5.11s more and more often. I've not been a fan of 5.11s other footwear iterations but these, so far, rock.

I would have never tought of 5.11 as a choice. Are those boots really a good choice?

Currently I use a pair ot OTB Bootistan. I am not thinking of a replace because those are quite well for any terrain and weather. But the new Salomon line looks great. Unfortunately good equipment and fair price is not something easy to get here in Spainistan; most of the time you have to order outside if that's a chance.

Joined: 30DEC08      Location: SPAIN

Take care, keep safe, stay frosty, brother!

tirotactico.net

^

Only just seen this Mohican. I've tried a lot of 5.11 footwear over the years, either stupidly buying them or just trying them on in the shop, and most were crap, like really bad. When my local 5.11 distributor got the new XPRT boots in he told me they were a complete change from 5.11's usual offerings and to give them a try (full disclosure, I got 15% discount, but still a hefty price for 5.11 boots I thought at the time). I bit and got a pair in coyote.

They are one of the most comfortable full leather boots I have ever worn, the form, fit and function of them is, IMHO, excellent. I really like them and I now prefer them to the Salomon Forces Quest, mainly because I don't like the paracord/closed loop lacing system they now use.

My footweat now consists of:

For winter/wet weather hiking I use the 5.11 XPRT 3.0

For hot weather (my repeat trips to Cyprus these days as opposed to true desert) hiking I now use the Salomon XA Pro 2018

For casual/wet weather urban wear I use Merrell MOAB 2.0 GTX mids

For casual dry weather urban it's the Merrell MOAB 2.0 vent shoes for me

And apart from some sandals, flipflops and training/running shoes that is my feet taken care of year round. Ok maybe a pair or two of dress shoes for 'formal' occasions but I tend to get formal less and less, usually because it involves being around other people, many of whom tend to be civilians  

My feet are happy bunnies and I'm not looking to change out any of my boots anytime soon (which is a rare thing for me to say).

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“Fate whispers to the warrior, ‘You cannot withstand the storm.’ The warrior whispers back, ‘I am the storm.’”

 

Joined: 2003          Location: At home pretending to be retired (again).

FINALLY got to try some new Salomons in person at our local REI (don't worry, no intention of buying from them due to their anti 2A stance).

For reference, I have Fred Flintstone feed and wear a 8.5 to 9EE in Danner Acadias, and a 8.5D in Danner Mountain 600 (nice roomy toebox in the 600).

Tried on the XA Pro 3D (shoe, not the mid) in 8.5EE, 9EE, and 9.5EE.  The 9EE was the sweet spot once it was on.  

Salesman said the EE is a very recent development in the XA Pro line.  Doesn't look like the wide is available in the mid-height. 

If they ever do, then I'm buying a set from Nelson Uniform (the godfather!). 

 

 

Have the 4D GTX boots had the same update as the XA Forces Mid boot?

“One sometimes gets the impression that the mere words ‘Socialism’ and ‘Communism’ draw towards them with magnetic force every fruit-juice drinker, nudist, sandal-wearer, sex-maniac, Quaker, ‘Nature Cure’ quack, pacifist, and feminist in England,”  -George Orwell-

HomoSepian posted:

Have the 4D GTX boots had the same update as the XA Forces Mid boot?

No, The XA mids were widened to match the width of Quest as part of their re-design but no changes that I am aware of to the Quests.

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“Fate whispers to the warrior, ‘You cannot withstand the storm.’ The warrior whispers back, ‘I am the storm.’”

 

Joined: 2003          Location: At home pretending to be retired (again).

SFF posted:

 

Salesman said the EE is a very recent development in the XA Pro line.  Doesn't look like the wide is available in the mid-height. 

 

 

Not available as in "Not yet, and they will be" or "Not yet, not going to happen at all" I'd be in for a wider mid from Nelson, as well.

Mojo/Mark
__________________________
Yo homey, is that my briefcase...?
Vincent from "Collateral"
__________________________
You want the good life, you break your back, you snap your fingers, you snap your neck... Prong/Demon Hunter
__________________________

Because...I Can. 


Joined: 9/30/09
Location: Northern Nevada (Reno/Sparks)

standeasy posted:

^

Only just seen this Mohican. I've tried a lot of 5.11 footwear over the years, either stupidly buying them or just trying them on in the shop, and most were crap, like really bad. When my local 5.11 distributor got the new XPRT boots in he told me they were a complete change from 5.11's usual offerings and to give them a try (full disclosure, I got 15% discount, but still a hefty price for 5.11 boots I thought at the time). I bit and got a pair in coyote.

They are one of the most comfortable full leather boots I have ever worn, the form, fit and function of them is, IMHO, excellent. I really like them and I now prefer them to the Salomon Forces Quest, mainly because I don't like the paracord/closed loop lacing system they now use.

My footweat now consists of:

For winter/wet weather hiking I use the 5.11 XPRT 3.0

For hot weather (my repeat trips to Cyprus these days as opposed to true desert) hiking I now use the Salomon XA Pro 2018

For casual/wet weather urban wear I use Merrell MOAB 2.0 GTX mids

For casual dry weather urban it's the Merrell MOAB 2.0 vent shoes for me

And apart from some sandals, flipflops and training/running shoes that is my feet taken care of year round. Ok maybe a pair or two of dress shoes for 'formal' occasions but I tend to get formal less and less, usually because it involves being around other people, many of whom tend to be civilians  

My feet are happy bunnies and I'm not looking to change out any of my boots anytime soon (which is a rare thing for me to say).

Are your vents mid or low? Just got a pair of the mid tacticals for work and they are awesome. The $80 price tag is nice too..

In Valor There Is Hope

SFF posted:

FINALLY got to try some new Salomons in person at our local REI (don't worry, no intention of buying from them due to their anti 2A stance).

For reference, I have Fred Flintstone feed and wear a 8.5 to 9EE in Danner Acadias, and a 8.5D in Danner Mountain 600 (nice roomy toebox in the 600).

Tried on the XA Pro 3D (shoe, not the mid) in 8.5EE, 9EE, and 9.5EE.  The 9EE was the sweet spot once it was on.  

Salesman said the EE is a very recent development in the XA Pro line.  Doesn't look like the wide is available in the mid-height. 

If they ever do, then I'm buying a set from Nelson Uniform (the godfather!). 

 

 

Here you go.. $99 with promotive

 

https://www.salomon.com/us/pro...-3-wide-mid-gtx.html

In Valor There Is Hope

 Mine are so comfy they get to spend hammock time with me_20180606_173557

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“Fate whispers to the warrior, ‘You cannot withstand the storm.’ The warrior whispers back, ‘I am the storm.’”

 

Joined: 2003          Location: At home pretending to be retired (again).

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bestcounsel posted:

Where are you guys getting these at? My merrell sawtooth are getting old (I'm on my third pair)?

any leads on a non retail price on these? 

Look here: https://nelsonuniform.com/prod.../xa-forces-mid-boots

...and use Coupon code LFTF when you check out to save dollars. Hope that helps.

Brad

bestcounsel posted:

Where are you guys getting these at? My merrell sawtooth are getting old (I'm on my third pair)?

any leads on a non retail price on these? 

I love love love my 4Ds but they arent Sawtooths.  More comfortable but not as durable.

STANDEASY - BLUF - looking for a comfortable warm weather (East Coast) work boot.

I recently wore my regular XA 3Ds the first day of a rifle course.  My feet were killing me after the first day.  On the second day I switched to my old Rocky S2Vs which were a little better.  I pulled out my Promotive Qwest 4Ds (goretex) for the third day and did not have any problems.  I usually wear these during winter and was worried about breathability but did not notice any issues despite the warm weather last week.

Is the cushioning on the Forces XAs comparable for the Forces Qwest version or should I go with the  Qwest?

There's not much in it due to the 2018 improvements but if I had to go with one over the other for long-term comfort and cushioning  I'd go with the Quest.  The XA forte is lightness and agility. Just my opinion.

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“Fate whispers to the warrior, ‘You cannot withstand the storm.’ The warrior whispers back, ‘I am the storm.’”

 

Joined: 2003          Location: At home pretending to be retired (again).

Black6, I have both.  I run the Quests in the winter and the XA's in the warmer months and second Standeasy's comment about comfort.  While I feel the XA's are plenty comfortable enough for every day patrol work, I prefer the Quests for things where support/odd terrain may be an issue.  The one trade off is weight.  My Quests are noticeably heavier than my XA's.  Its a "relative" heavier though.  They're much lighter than any of the Danner, Belleville, etc. I've worn over the years.

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Joined:  3/14/2011                Location:  KY
 
quote:
Originally posted by Dorsai:
Never argue with an idiot.  They'll just drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.

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