6.8 SPC Experiments

You know who you are, bugging me for these pics, and they still suck. Hope they work out to satisfy some curiousity.

Kel (not a photographer)



Ok, so there I was, finally remembered to bring home some magazines from work so I could load up some 6.8 ammo in them to take comparision pics. I grabbed a couple boxes of ammo, the three MIQ (Mags In Question) and began loading. Immediately, I found some issues that I thought some here might find interesting.





DISCLAIMER: I'm not working on mags for this stuff, just cans. This is going to be an average Joe's look at what happens when doing this with average Joe magazines. I've heard a lot of people say that the standard AR15 mag can be loaded up with (fill in the blank rumor amount of rounds) and function, etc. This is actually the first time I've tried loading the ammo in an M16 mag - all of our testing has been done with another, secret squirrel platform.

The mags I had handy were:

M16 30rd mag, OK Industries 'bout 3 years old, very little use, shoots 5.56mm fine.

HK G36 30rd mag, about four years old, less than 1000rds of 5.56 through it.

SIG 55X mag, 20rd version, two years old, couple hundred 5.56 rounds through it.

---

Observations:

G36

Got 14 rounds in the G36 mag, which, as you can see by the pic, is less than a third 'loaded' and met very hard resistance, to the point I could maybe have plugged another round in there, but was concerned about breaking the mag. Feed lips were bowing outward, resistance to feeding out high, won't fit in magwell easily.



M16

Got 7 rounds in it, follower issues started - rounds started to split off left and right, bowing mag body/lips heavily deformed. Would probably not cycle, probably would have problems fitting in the mag well. First suprise of the bunch, I thought these were supposed to do better than that... From my standpoint, even for recreational shooting, unusable.



SIG 55X

Second suprise, and a pleasant one. I didn't bring a 30rd mag home from work, just grabbed a 20rd one. Loaded and fit 17 rounds of 6.8SPC easily, didn't have to shoehorn or stomp the rounds in.



No bowing at all, no deformation of the mag body. Smooth consistent flow of rounds out of the mag for perhaps five rounds at a time, then all rounds shifted downhill (nose down, won't cycle or unload without smacking the rear of mag to make rounds align correctly again.) The follower is nosediving, allowing this. I think with a new follower and perhaps opening the front feed notch of the mag, this would be a winner.



I should make the statement that the military / new production M16 mags shouldn't do what this M16 mag did. I was suprised that it buggered up as badly as it did, and am curious to repeat this with other M16 mags to see if this was a blip or not. Extrapolate that civvy preban mags are not all going to be just an easy changeover.

BTW: I like 6.8, am on the team with this stuff - I AM NOT KNOCKING ANY SYSTEM OR AMMO - just reporting what it was like for someone in a civvy recreation position to take some mags and try to make existing things work.



Just some impressions.


Kel (who apparently feels there's too much heat concerning this round and needs to make annoying legal disclaimers)


ps: McDonald's coffee is served hot: Caution!
Original Post
great pics and info, kel - thanks for posting!
huh, and we've all been told a follower change was all that was needed in M16 mags to accomodate the 6.8. do update us if you get one of these replacement followers.
BTW, how did the 7.62X51 rounds fit? Razz
cheers,
MM

Good judgement comes from experience, and a lot of that comes from bad judgement :-)
Good info, looks to me like it's going to take a wee bit longer before all the bugs get worked out. My guess is that in the near future we'll see various reasonable priced systems that will work well. Am I interested? Yes, but the two things that I'm waiting to see shake out are ammo prices and mag availability. Until then I'll be content with the 5.56.

Kel, be sure that we'll be the first to know how this round works the next time one of those little kitty's decides to pay you another visit. Wink
Good stuff- ya gotta love it when someone actually sits down and does the experiment instead of repeating what he heard on the web.

FWIW- (repeating stuff I've heard on the web- forgive me)- I've heard that some manufacturers will make replacement mag bodies available- switch out the mag body and follower in your preban mag and now you have a magazine that fits/feeds both 5.56 and 6.8mm properly.

Hopefully that isn't just wishful thinking.
Great report ! You pictures are fine.

Thanks.

GIs carrying 1911s defeated Axis forces, including Austrians. The 1911 was winning battles and saving lives before Gaston Glock was even born - somewhere along the way we probably figured out a thing or two on combat handguns." –Larry Vickers
So does this mean a new magazine will need to be made to convert ar's over to 6.8mm, or will they work with just a new follower?

"Among the many misdeeds of the british rule in india, history will look upon the act of depriving a whole nation of arms, as the blackest." -mahatma gandhi"

"Justice without force is powerless: Force without justice is tyrannical." - Blaise Pas
quote:
Originally posted by AR15Fan:
Kel,
Would you please consider posting your pics on AR15.com. Or allowing me to link one of them there. Most people on AR15.com still believe they can shove 25-28rnds on 6.8SPC into an unmodified 5.56mm magazine.


***Sure, go for it. Although I see that's already happened Smile

Sorry, I forgot to bring home a 20rd Colt mag, but here's the followup on this subject...

kel

quiet things
for quiet professionals.


Brought out three more 30rd commonly found M16 magazines: one Colt's marked floorplate, one LaBelle Ind, and one Adventure Line. All servicable for 5.56mm use, although the AL mag was a little on the worn side. Again, standard Remington 115grn 6.8 SPC ammo. Didn't need to go beyond one box of 20 for these loading/fit tests...

Colt mag, fit best out of all of them - 15rds fit, a little tight, could have thumped one more in there, but it probably wouldn't have come out easily. As it was, the first couple fed out hard, possibly would have stopped the bolt from coming forwards.




Adventure line floorplate markings
9 rds buldged, three rounds would not feed out easily, hung up, went sideways when attempted to push them out.

(oops, giant-sized pic, don't feel like resizing, bandwidth is cheap...)



LaBelle Ind. -- middle ground --
11rds in, fairly easy. hangups on first three out.



For grins, since the 20rd SIG mag worked so well, I tried a 30rd SIG 55X 30rd mag - suprise, same amount more or less as the 20rd mag.
Weird.



Eh, just thought you'd like to know.

Kel

quiet things
for quiet professionals.
quote:
Originally posted by stephen:
Where'd you get the pretty looking sling?
Stephen



***It's the new one the Naval Surface Warfare guys will be getting.

Things just have a way of dropping into my gear pile.

Wanna buy one?

Kel

quiet things
for quiet professionals.
quote:
Originally posted by kel:

Eh, just thought you'd like to know.

Kel

quiet things
for quiet professionals.


Thanks for all your work, although I can't see the pics (just a dumb little red x, must be in my settings) and I can relate to what you describe. I just purchased a brand new Bushmaster AR15 in 6.8 SPC and it came with the .223 magazine that I wasn't aware of. I bought 6 more of these thinking that I was getting 6.8 mags as well. I sure wish I had run across this thread prior to going to the range because I had a miserable time. See, I'm new to the AR15 and I just thought it was me not knowing how to load the mags, so I bruised all my fingers and thumbs trying to load these things; and then the mags swelled so bad they wouldn't slide into the mag-well. Well I finally forced one in, but it didn't even clear the mag catch/release, but the dad-burn thing was stuck hard and would NOT come out. I had to drop the upper and "dig" out the rounds to release the swell of the mag, then it slipped out easily. I can't tell you how irked I was at Bushmaster for such poor QC. I don't blame the dealer since this is a new item and surely he expects his manufacturers to cover his back a lot better than that. I hope this doesn't happen to many other newbies, but I'm sure it will..... <sigh>
I probably still have the pics if anyone would like them, I could email and they could host them if they'd like - I switched home internet provider servers since this post originally was made (sometime around the Spanish-American war timeframe) and lost the web address they were once located on.

Holy Necro-post, Batman! That post was from back when... 6.8 was cool.




Kel
That's okay kel, I know from 1st hand experience what it looked like. I've since purchased a PRI 6.8 SPC 25rd mag and took it to the range today and it worked really well. I was so relieved that the magazine didn't swell when loading it with 25. I went through 5 boxes of ammo (3xHornady 110gr Vmax, 2xRemington 115gr Express FMJ - semi blunt). The Hornady was more accurate (by a long shot) than the Remington but they also had two episodes where the bolt didn't get kicked back and lock open upon the last round. Had no issues at all with the Remington. So I'm not sure it was a mag issue or bullet weight maybe. I have a CProducts mag coming next week and Bushmaster is suppose to expedite a replacement for the .223 that came with it; so at least I'll have 3 different manufactueres to test. The winner will get 3 more ordered as soon as I can figure it all out. It really was sweet to find out the rifle functions really well. Now to figure out how to clean this sucker. I'm real new to this AR15 so any info is appreciated.

Thanks in advance!
Jim
quote:
Originally posted by BlackOps_Amazed:
That's okay kel, I know from 1st hand experience what it looked like. I've since purchased a PRI 6.8 SPC 25rd mag and took it to the range today and it worked really well. I was so relieved that the magazine didn't swell when loading it with 25. I went through 5 boxes of ammo (3xHornady 110gr Vmax, 2xRemington 115gr Express FMJ - semi blunt). The Hornady was more accurate (by a long shot) than the Remington but they also had two episodes where the bolt didn't get kicked back and lock open upon the last round. Had no issues at all with the Remington. So I'm not sure it was a mag issue or bullet weight maybe. I have a CProducts mag coming next week and Bushmaster is suppose to expedite a replacement for the .223 that came with it; so at least I'll have 3 different manufactueres to test. The winner will get 3 more ordered as soon as I can figure it all out. It really was sweet to find out the rifle functions really well. Now to figure out how to clean this sucker. I'm real new to this AR15 so any info is appreciated.

Thanks in advance!
Jim


Jim,

As a new member, your next post needs to be here.

Also, Bushmaster is going to send you a CProducts mag (which is what your rifle should have shipped with). I have had excellent luck with both PRI and CProducts 6.8mm SPC Mags. It's possible that your bolt hold open issue is part of the break in process with your rifle.

Stephen
quote:
Originally posted by stephen:
quote:
Originally posted by BlackOps_Amazed:
That's okay kel, ...is appreciated.

Thanks in advance!
Jim


Jim,

As a new member, your next post needs to be here.

Also, Bushmaster is going to send you a CProducts mag (which is what your rifle should have shipped with). I have had excellent luck with both PRI and CProducts 6.8mm SPC Mags. It's possible that your bolt hold open issue is part of the break in process with your rifle.

Stephen


Oops! Sorry about that; I'm not sure how I ended up in here, but I think I did a Goggle search for the 6.8 and came in sideways... LOL. Thanks tons for your info and now I'll see if I can find those rules and read 'em and get in line. Thanks again!

Jim
Thanks for the necropost, now go back to Crusader Hall and read the sticky about making your first post.

http://lightfighter.net/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/5436084761/m/2031049741

The Mods here run a tight ship...

-Brando --------------------- Science is like a good friend: sometimes it tells you things you don't want to hear. It tells you the truth. And we all know how much that can hurt, don't we, fatso? Faith, Science and Evolution in a Nutshell

Wow.

I mean, again, we tell people to use the search feature so they don't have to ask the same questions again and again, but you're making me feel old, digging up my post from 2004.

So, kudos for using the search. Get a profile up, and you'll be doing just fine here.

6.8SPC, as you can all see, has taken off like a ROCKET, sales-wise, since I made this post. Sure am glad I went through all the hoops to be one of the early adopters there...


:P



Kel (who prefers a little .950 JDJ for twolegs)

"Don't make the mistake of assuming that you and I share any of the same value systems."

- Kel

"Overconsumption and a lust for more only leads to unhappiness, strife, and a burden on this earth. You can't enjoy this creation if you think you can own it."  - Again, Me, aka, Kel.

Heh, it's been a while since I've been here; booted up an older hd with this OS and other email addy and "boom" got a few of these threads I had forgotten about.

Any-who; back to the Subject! I've had my Bushy 6.8 SPC for some time now and although I had a terrible 1st 6 months experience; (jams, failure to eject, etc; seems to have been a problem with the ramp, chamber, etc.). Bushmaster finally replaced the entire upper for me and now my defense weapon is ultra reliable. Gone through apprx 500 rounds since I got it back a month or so ago and not one problem/NADA!

Is it possible to find some resonably priced ammo? Currently costing me apprx $1 a round which gets pricey when you're having fun at the range. I've tried the reloading routine, but that is very time consuming and since I had to buy new brass was still running about $.75 a round.

Thanks in advance!
quote:
Originally posted by Amazed:
Is it possible to find some resonably priced ammo? Currently costing me apprx $1 a round which gets pricey when you're having fun at the range. I've tried the reloading routine, but that is very time consuming and since I had to buy new brass was still running about $.75 a round.

Thanks in advance!


For plinking/training ammo I order it by the case from www.midwayusa.com.

For precision shooting and defensive use the Silver State 115 grain Sierra OTM Enhanced Fragmentation (Military/LE) is the best choice and is still under a buck a shot. VERY good ammo.

When the Blackhills 6.8mm ammo is available later this year I'll try it out as well, but I'm fairly certain it will cost more than the Silver State stuff.

Stephen
Can someone call that guy on Futureweapons, and talk to him? He has one episode where he makes the 6.8 to be some kind of magic, one-shot you-die round.

I get tired of people repeating the myths of bullet performance on television...
--- Do you know what your sin is?
quote:
Originally posted by stephen:

For plinking/training ammo I order it by the case from www.midwayusa.com.

For precision shooting and defensive use the Silver State 115 grain Sierra OTM Enhanced Fragmentation (Military/LE) is the best choice and is still under a buck a shot. VERY good ammo.

When the Blackhills 6.8mm ammo is available later this year I'll try it out as well, but I'm fairly certain it will cost more than the Silver State stuff.

Stephen


Thanks for the info.... I've seen a real good price for the semi-flat nose stuff for around $10.00 a box of 20 but can't seem to find that website again. Yeah, those Sierra 115gr jobbies are excellent. That's what I was reloading; and would still be doing so but I had a lot of trouble reusing my spent brass... Currently using Hornady 110gr BTHP W/C and they seem to hold the more accurate group. I'll give those Silver State LE ones a go.

Thanks again!
quote:
Originally posted by Amazed:
quote:
Originally posted by stephen:

For plinking/training ammo I order it by the case from www.midwayusa.com.

For precision shooting and defensive use the Silver State 115 grain Sierra OTM Enhanced Fragmentation (Military/LE) is the best choice and is still under a buck a shot. VERY good ammo.

When the Blackhills 6.8mm ammo is available later this year I'll try it out as well, but I'm fairly certain it will cost more than the Silver State stuff.

Stephen


Thanks for the info.... I've seen a real good price for the semi-flat nose stuff for around $10.00 a box of 20 but can't seem to find that website again. Yeah, those Sierra 115gr jobbies are excellent. That's what I was reloading; and would still be doing so but I had a lot of trouble reusing my spent brass... Currently using Hornady 110gr BTHP W/C and they seem to hold the more accurate group. I'll give those Silver State LE ones a go.

Thanks again!


That was at AIM Surplus, but that is old stock ammo and it may cause reliability or pressure issues in your gun depending on who made the barrel/cut the chamber. SSA is working on a new low cost 6.8mm round to replace the X-Treme bullet load you're refering to.

Stephen
quote:
Originally posted by stephen:
quote:
Originally posted by John T. Kwon:
Can someone call that guy on Futureweapons, and talk to him? He has one episode where he makes the 6.8 to be some kind of magic, one-shot you-die round.


I would if it weren't true

Stephen


I remember reading Jack O'Connor's praises for the 270 Winchester and its ability to take down game, and a lot of the stuff I read about the 6.8 SPC reads the same way about the two-legged critters, and I keep wondering - is it really true, or do I still have to do my part and put the round through the head to get the stop?

wait a second... 270 = 6.8mm hmmm....

Now, if only you were allowed to use softpoints...
--- Do you know what your sin is?
quote:
Originally posted by John T. Kwon:
Can someone call that guy on Futureweapons, and talk to him? He has one episode where he makes the 6.8 to be some kind of magic, one-shot you-die round.


quote:

I would if it weren't true
Stephen


***You can't fool those Future Weapons guys - they know the score on what the right kit is...

Big Grin




Kel

"Don't make the mistake of assuming that you and I share any of the same value systems."

- Kel

"Overconsumption and a lust for more only leads to unhappiness, strife, and a burden on this earth. You can't enjoy this creation if you think you can own it."  - Again, Me, aka, Kel.

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