870 Short Shotgun

Perhaps they should call this the 870 Snaggle Tooth because I predict this will be a tooth breaker, especially when Bubba loads up with 3" maggies and hands it to a friend.

On the other hand I'm feeling an illogical stirring.

 

I see the Raptor grip "minimizes felt recoil."  Hmmm

NEW - Remington Model 870 TAC-14

Original Post

I made one of those a couple of years ago.

-------------------------

Mark

Swear allegiance to the flag Whatever flag they offer

Never hint at what you really feel

Teach the children quietly For some day sons and daughters

Will rise up and fight while we stood still

 

Joined:  2/24/2003                          Location:  Nevada, USA

They had to copy Mossberg to keep up.  Wonder if they built these on the crappy express guns or on a police magnum?

I have the Mossberg version and it is a blast to shoot, lots of fun. Not sure how practical it is, but it sure is fun.

I like that it already has the Magpul forend on it. 

“Then I heard the voice of the Lord saying, ‘Whom shall I send? And who will go for us?’ And I said, ‘Here am I. Send me!’”
"Fuck the know it alls.They don't have to do it, and don't have the balls to do it"

Pat Rogers.

I was watching a YouTube video of Hickok45 shooting the Mossburg version. When he shot it with one hand, the recoil was enough to partially work the slide back and eject the empty shell. 

This concept looks like it would be fun to blow up fruit and 2 lt bottles full of colored water with on an afternoon. But any realistic practical applications escape me.

And for me, it's not an option anyway. I verified that my state views any shotgun with less than an 18" barrel as a restricted item, no matter the overall length. 

I'm sure that they will sell all that they can make. Seems like the perfect home defense weapon for the trailer park. 

 

 

 

Joined: 4-23-04                                          Location: SW Ohio

Beat Trash posted:

I was watching a YouTube video of Hickok45 shooting the Mossburg version. When he shot it with one hand, the recoil was enough to partially work the slide back and eject the empty shell. 

This concept looks like it would be fun to blow up fruit and 2 lt bottles full of colored water with on an afternoon. But any realistic practical applications escape me.

And for me, it's not an option anyway. I verified that my state views any shotgun with less than an 18" barrel as a restricted item, no matter the overall length. 

I'm sure that they will sell all that they can make. Seems like the perfect home defense weapon for the trailer park. 

Check to see if Ohio has a statutory definition of shotgun.  The whole reason this is legal on a federal basis is that the definition of shotgun requires that it have a buttstock.  If it never had, and doesn't have, a buttstock, then it is a firearm, not a shotgun.  Anyway, worth checking out.  I've got a chassis for an 870 and I'm considering attaching my SB brace, since it isn't a buttstock.  Should be fun!

-------------------------

Mark

Swear allegiance to the flag Whatever flag they offer

Never hint at what you really feel

Teach the children quietly For some day sons and daughters

Will rise up and fight while we stood still

 

Joined:  2/24/2003                          Location:  Nevada, USA

BKS posted:

They had to copy Mossberg to keep up.  Wonder if they built these on the crappy express guns or on a police magnum?

I have the Mossberg version and it is a blast to shoot, lots of fun. Not sure how practical it is, but it sure is fun.

I like that it already has the Magpul forend on it. 

It is my understanding it is build on the law enforcement version.

The grip is modeled after the old Remington Witness Protection gun unless I am mistaken and is supposed to be more comfortable to shoot than a standard pistol grip, but I cannot speak from experience.  Being the owner of an original Ithaca Stakeout in 12 gauge I can say that the standard pistol grip with high brass is not fun, it may have a place, but recreational shooting is not it.

Looks like a hoot, this will get added to the 870 herd.  Will just keep her sandwiched between the seat and the center console on the Maersk Ford, never know when I might need to repel pirates who jumped on the running boards. 

Please note: not an aspiring inner city "yout" trying to turn my life around...  one "g" two "oo's" like NPH's 80's era TV show.  

 

If you have to ask your buddy if you are on fire, you are four to five seconds behind the "stop, drop and roll" power curve.

Dorsai posted:
Beat Trash posted:

I was watching a YouTube video of Hickok45 shooting the Mossburg version. When he shot it with one hand, the recoil was enough to partially work the slide back and eject the empty shell. 

This concept looks like it would be fun to blow up fruit and 2 lt bottles full of colored water with on an afternoon. But any realistic practical applications escape me.

And for me, it's not an option anyway. I verified that my state views any shotgun with less than an 18" barrel as a restricted item, no matter the overall length. 

I'm sure that they will sell all that they can make. Seems like the perfect home defense weapon for the trailer park. 

Check to see if Ohio has a statutory definition of shotgun.  The whole reason this is legal on a federal basis is that the definition of shotgun requires that it have a buttstock.  If it never had, and doesn't have, a buttstock, then it is a firearm, not a shotgun.  Anyway, worth checking out.  I've got a chassis for an 870 and I'm considering attaching my SB brace, since it isn't a buttstock.  Should be fun!

Unfortunately, the Ohio Revised Code, 2923.11 (F) uses the word, "Or" instead of the word, "And". By the O.R.C., it's classified as a, "Sawed Off Shotgun". Buds gun shop will not ship the Mossburg version to Ohio for this reason.

Probably for the best as it prevents me from spending money on something like this. As I would most likely bought one just because it would make me smile to go plinking with one...

 

 

 

Joined: 4-23-04                                          Location: SW Ohio

While the practical application of this is questionable, I fully support giving the NFA the middle finger whenever possible.  Good on them.

What excites me most is the CYL barrel listed in the ad; until now, I think all Remington's 14" barrels have been MOD chokes.  Based on my limited sample size of two, I've found that Federal's FliteControl wad does markedly better without the MOD constriction.  I'm hoping I can source one of the barrels so that my existing SBS will hold close to the same pattern as its longer, CYL choked brother. 

And just for shits and giggles - similar to DLEHR's line of thinking - there is always this option in case you want to spend more on the supporting leather than you did on the iron...

--Dave

 

"Do not touch anything unnecessarily. Beware of pretty girls in dance halls and parks who may be spies, as well as bicycles, revolvers, uniforms, arms, dead horses, and men lying on roads -- they are not there accidentally."

Just don't wear that with a coat over it.  Concealing it turns it into an AOW.

-------------------------

Mark

Swear allegiance to the flag Whatever flag they offer

Never hint at what you really feel

Teach the children quietly For some day sons and daughters

Will rise up and fight while we stood still

 

Joined:  2/24/2003                          Location:  Nevada, USA

Wow...  I really took Dorsai's post as tongue-in-cheek.  You know, sort of like how a Sig brace on an AR pistol suddenly turns into a stock/SBR sometimes (or at least used to until recently).

Did some reading.  As it turns out, he was not making jokes.  BATFE opinion letter here.

"Nonetheless, because the statute does not expressly indicate any maximum overall length, a firearm measuring greater than 26 inches in length may properly be classified as an "any other weapon" (AOW) if it otherwise satisfies the definition of an AOW and there is evidence that the firearm in question was actually concealed on a person."

 

This my sad face. 

--Dave

 

"Do not touch anything unnecessarily. Beware of pretty girls in dance halls and parks who may be spies, as well as bicycles, revolvers, uniforms, arms, dead horses, and men lying on roads -- they are not there accidentally."

drh2687 posted:

Wow...  I really took Dorsai's post as tongue-in-cheek.  You know, sort of like how a Sig brace on an AR pistol suddenly turns into a stock/SBR sometimes (or at least used to until recently).

Did some reading.  As it turns out, he was not making jokes.  BATFE opinion letter here.

"Nonetheless, because the statute does not expressly indicate any maximum overall length, a firearm measuring greater than 26 inches in length may properly be classified as an "any other weapon" (AOW) if it otherwise satisfies the definition of an AOW and there is evidence that the firearm in question was actually concealed on a person."

 

This my sad face. 

Vulcans never bluff.

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IT'S A COLT.  THEY'RE LIKE THE HK OF GUNS.

HRH (Ret.) The Most Reverend Consig

 

 

 

 

 Joined: 28 Nov 2004: 0037hrs        Location: The worst run state in the U.S

MH64 posted:

Wouldn't mind having one to play with.

Except Texas considers these illegal by defination of what a shotgun is.

I just tried to look up the definition of "shotgun" in Texas and couldn't find one.  There are codes about short barreled firearms which includes shotguns with a barrel less than 18", but it does not define shotgun.  Federal law requires a shotgun to have a buttstock, so a "shotgun" that never had a buttstock, just a pistol grip, isn't a shotgun.  I don't if the issue has come up in Texas law, but I would think that without a state statutory definition, the court would defer to the federal definition.  I also note that the Texas definition only mentions barrel length.  Under that definition, you could legally have a shotgun with a cut down buttstock and an 18" barrel that fell below the additional federal requirement of 26" in overall length.  That little detail is what got Randy Weaver in trouble.

-------------------------

Mark

Swear allegiance to the flag Whatever flag they offer

Never hint at what you really feel

Teach the children quietly For some day sons and daughters

Will rise up and fight while we stood still

 

Joined:  2/24/2003                          Location:  Nevada, USA

Since Texas defines a shotgun somewhat specifically and it is a good bit different than federal law,  I do not wish to be the first test case.

 

Those with more law than me chime in here.

 

----------------------------------------------------- I did NOT stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night!

Yep.

Texas doesn't have the same definition of a shotgun as federal law. What it does state is a shotgun must have at least an 18" barrel and be 26" or longer.

 

The above Remington and the Mossberg Shockwave are listed as a "firearm" under federal law not a shotgun. Something that Texas doesn't have.

 

Hoping that this will change at some point.

----------------------------------------------------- I did NOT stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night!

I couldn't find a definition of shotgun, just a short barreled shotgun. 

Hijack here.  This definition.  Seriously????  It is illegal in Texas to own a Bowie knife or a knife with a blade over 5.5"?  No swords?  This pretty much means I can't move to Texas, a state that I thought was solidly in free America.

(6) "Illegal knife" means a:



(A) knife with a blade over five and one-half inches;

(B) hand instrument designed to cut or stab another by being thrown;

(C) dagger, including but not limited to a dirk, stiletto, and poniard;



(D) bowie knife;







(E) sword; or







(F) spear.

-------------------------

Mark

Swear allegiance to the flag Whatever flag they offer

Never hint at what you really feel

Teach the children quietly For some day sons and daughters

Will rise up and fight while we stood still

 

Joined:  2/24/2003                          Location:  Nevada, USA

I noticed in Hickok45's video that he mentioned the grip cannot be changed or it turns this into a AOW.  Would that just be due to the length requirement?  I ask because I would be interested in one of these and adding a brace as mentioned previously.

The birds head grip sticks out further to the rear than a more vertical pistol grip.  It is more comfortable to shoot, but it also keeps the length over 26".  These are the crucial elements.

1.  The overall length must be greater than 26".  Essentially any combination of barrel length and grip length that results in an overall length longer than 26".  The ATF arbitrarily decided that 26" was the cutoff.  Shorter than that and it is deemed concealable.  I think for marketing reasons, and the fact that Mossberg and Remington already made 14" barrels, it was decided that using the birds head grip with a 14" barrel made more sense than a shorter, more vertical pistol grip with a 15 or 16" barrel.  No one really sees much of a difference between 16" and 18".

2.  Don't conceal it.  The definition of AOW revolves around concealable.  If the barrel is less than the limits for rifle and shotgun, and it is concealable, then it is an AOW.  Fortunately, the only defined characteristic for the class of weapons is the overall length.  If they applied the standard of what a 7' basketball player could conceal under a duster, we'd be screwed.  As an individual, if you conceal it, you the individual are the one in trouble.  Not the rest of us.

-------------------------

Mark

Swear allegiance to the flag Whatever flag they offer

Never hint at what you really feel

Teach the children quietly For some day sons and daughters

Will rise up and fight while we stood still

 

Joined:  2/24/2003                          Location:  Nevada, USA

EODDoogie posted:

Looks like a hoot, this will get added to the 870 herd.  Will just keep her sandwiched between the seat and the center console on the Maersk Ford, never know when I might need to repel pirates who jumped on the running boards. 

That's what I figured it would be good for - a fun scatterblaster for shits and grins and a decent vehicle piece to repel boarders. It's difficult fitting the 590 under the seat. Not that I haven't tried...

RIP HM2 Chris Walsh KIA Al Anbar 04SEP2006 HN Chad Kenyon KIA Al Anbar 20AUG06 Gone, not forgotten

I read an update from the TSRA about a bill being moved thru Texas to update the wording of the various definitions of firearms to follow what the federal government defines so as to make legal firearms such as these above from Remington and Mossberg.

----------------------------------------------------- I did NOT stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night!

Waiting for SBS stamp on my old Narc shotgun I bought 10 years ago after a department trade.; going 12.5 in. w screw in chokes  & XS Rifle Sights. Have had Timney Trigger fix in it for 5 years. Slick as a minner!!!

Were I prepping a Firearm like this for work, would put a rifled bbl on it to make 1 Buck spread & Brenneke BlackMagic group.  Run Micro or Just  plop   XSBDT on its bead w Steel Bed. Dominate the environment Zero to 100 yards...

 

Dorsai:

"Hijack here.  This definition.  Seriously????  It is illegal in Texas to own a Bowie knife or a knife with a blade over 5.5"?  No swords?  This pretty much means I can't move to Texas, a state that I thought was solidly in free America."

Hold on...Bowie knives are verboten?  I thought Texas was founded on Bowie knives, gunpowder & beans?

Swords...what about those sword-bayonets?

Most Southern States got onerous weapon  laws from Carpetbagger legislatures after The War of Northern Aggression.

TN deactivated those laws a few years back. Law-abiding citizens can now carry any sized edged weapon on their person open or concealed. Licensed carry folk can carry open. Everybody can have loaded firearms in their cars, too.

Downside to last is guns are getting stolen out of vehicles a lot!

Once I'm no longer a public figure, my Wal-Mart costume will be an aggressive conservative T-shirt, comedy lounge pants and Tevas, nickel 8&3/8th nickel 29 in a Gunfighter's Inc. Kenai, an Ontario RTAK and a Boker tomahawk across my back.

I'm gonna love retirement!

 

 

 

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