9mm 1911

Well for the 1st company to crack the "carries like a G19 shoots like a 1911" nut it seems like they can ask whatever they want for it and it'll sell. Just look at how many doushie fancied up $2000+ G19s there are floating around out there... I'm not gonna buy one but I'd be hard pressed to think of a better concealed pistol from either a shootability or carry standpoint. Looks like they totally redesigned the 1911 frame to fit 15 rounds of 9mm while not making it any bigger than a regular 1911, and the undercut on the trigger guard looks like it will allow a very high hold. It seems someone has been paying attention to what the modern shooter has been asking for in a carry gun...

Joined: 13AUG2010         Location: Southern Arizona 

$2900.  Thank baby Jeebus it's a NOGO in CT.  P1's hearing aid upgrade fund would already be on its way to Wilson.

-------------------------

IT'S A COLT.  THEY'RE LIKE THE HK OF GUNS.

HRH (Ret.) The Most Reverend Consig

Stupidity is not a skillset.

 

 

 

 

 Joined: 28 Nov 2004: 0037hrs        Location: The worst run state in the U.S

XTCBX posted:

I believe, to quote you..."go be poor somewhere else".  

True. Unfortunately it's the 15 rd. mag.  Not the money.  Never the money....

-------------------------

IT'S A COLT.  THEY'RE LIKE THE HK OF GUNS.

HRH (Ret.) The Most Reverend Consig

Stupidity is not a skillset.

 

 

 

 

 Joined: 28 Nov 2004: 0037hrs        Location: The worst run state in the U.S

The new Wilson X9 has more in common with an STI 2011 frame than a proper 1911 frame, so I'll be calling it the Wilson 9mm 2011.

Also...
STI has had 3", 3.5", and 4" bull barreled 2011 pistols with a 15rnd capacity in 9mm with an officers or commanders profile grip (all with high cut grips)... the polymer framed one is 24oz.  So I fail to see why some folks in the industry are referring it as a revolutionary new design 

Con, I regret to inform you (thinking of P1 here) that Wilson will be making 10 round magazines available for these as well... JUST FOR YOU!!!

M6, The STI 2011 design is basically a 1911 frame with the grip cut off and a plastic one bolted on to achieve the double stack. This is an aluminum frame shrunk down around a 9mm cartridge with totally different feeding geometry (this has always been the downfall of the 2011s as the 1911 runs best with long .45ACP cartridges). From what I've read about it there are very few interchangeable parts with a 1911 in the frame. 

Joined: 13AUG2010         Location: Southern Arizona 

Glad Wilson was thinking of me.  While it looks fantastic and probably runs great, it's a lot of pistol for 10rds of 9mm plus the cost.  My HK45C is smaller, lighter, incredibly reliable and accurate, 10rds of .45acp and......dare I say it...70% less expensive .  For 15rds I'd think about it but then I'd probably use my USP9 with a jet funnel and 18rd white mags.

-------------------------

IT'S A COLT.  THEY'RE LIKE THE HK OF GUNS.

HRH (Ret.) The Most Reverend Consig

Stupidity is not a skillset.

 

 

 

 

 Joined: 28 Nov 2004: 0037hrs        Location: The worst run state in the U.S

The Wilson pistol looks like a variant of the KZ9. I have one, and it runs great after I helped with testing and improving the mag designs some years ago. The KZ45s, on the other hand, were never worth a damn as far I know. The EMP4 looks appealing, but I am trying to be more realistic about carry guns now.

- - - -
Never be biased. Get to know people, and then hate them for objective reasons. They will almost always give you plenty.

www.routledge.com/9781138302969 (NOTE: Live Link)

Doug Mitchell posted:

The Wilson pistol looks like a variant of the KZ9. I have one, and it runs great after I helped with testing and improving the mag designs some years ago. The KZ45s, on the other hand, were never worth a damn as far I know. The EMP4 looks appealing, but I am trying to be more realistic about carry guns now.

Doug, 

What's unrealistic about the EMP4 except maybe the cost?  I like it, but there's something about bobtails that bothers me and I'm not quite sure what it is. Maybe it's just so untraditional looking on a 1911 pattern gun. Maybe I'm just nuts, too. 

Mojo/Mark
__________________________
Yo homey, is that my briefcase...?
Vincent from "Collateral"
__________________________
You want the good life, you break your back, you snap your fingers, you snap your neck... Prong/Demon Hunter
__________________________

Because...I Can. 


Joined: 9/30/09
Location: Northern Nevada (Reno/Sparks)

For that amount of coin I think aesthetics matter and I don't care for the x-pattern serrations.  A 1911 trigger in a 15 rd 9mm pistol definitely has its appeal but the Wilson X9 is still out of my price range. 

You could get a CZ Custom Protek II with similar ergonomics and trigger for about 1/3 less if you're looking for a non-polymer compact carry 9mm

MOJONIXON posted:
Doug, 

<stuff>

 Maybe I'm just nuts, too. 

O-o-o-o-o-h-h-h, Mark .... that's a topic deserving of it's own thread!!

.

JK!

RD

 

.......................................................................................................

For those of you who believe history began when you were born, educate yourselves. ~ Pat Rogers

Adversity can shape and perfect us, and horrible adversity can make us champions. ~ Maskirovka

 

Joined: 26 Aug 2008           Location: The Libitard Center of Oregon

Note: If you see "edited" assume it was to adjust for fat-finger typing.

MOJONIXON posted:

Doug, 

What's unrealistic about the EMP4 except maybe the cost?  

The cost is enough - especially when considering that sometimes 1911 format pistols need this 'n' that, which at least can be done in the Springfield custom shop. For the same or less money I can have a Glock 19L (chopped 17) with improved sights and all that stuff, with a lot more capacity.

- - - -
Never be biased. Get to know people, and then hate them for objective reasons. They will almost always give you plenty.

www.routledge.com/9781138302969 (NOTE: Live Link)

Ok...I'll step up and admit to being "that guy".  At face value for the EDC X9 Wilson, I thought GTFO...

As noted in another thread, I was gearing down on .45ACP, but was reluctant to abandon it completely; mostly due to sentimental value of the 1911 and my time on the HK45.   I also couldn't bear the thought of a $3000+ single stack 9mm choke machine.  I bought the EDC X9 on  a whim instead, and was happy I did.  I really am starting to like this thing.

[IMG]

The GOOD:

It's accurate as hell.

It carries as good or better than my P2000 (which is a smaller profile than a G19). 

The magazines are top-notch.

Ramped barrel, no barrel bushing, no front lugs for the barrel, shallow feed angle, 15+1 capacity, no grip safety (but stiff thumb safety).  The gun largely retains most 1911 benefits and sheds many of the technical problem areas. 

It's eaten a few hundred rounds so far and I'm curious to see how it looks after it digests 2 cases of ammo and is detail stripped.

 

THE BAD:

While little needs to be customized; you're stuck with few options.  For what they ask for pricing wise, I should be able to spec the texturing I want.

U-notch rear isn't for everyone.  Uses a Novak cut for other options but the Glock style front sight and only one front height means aftermarket sight zeroing could be tricky if you don't dig the U rear.

Usually comes medium trigger and small backstrap...you gotta pay EXTRA for the other backstraps.

Proprietary design could mean long-term problems for avid users if this thing dies out. 

 

THE UGLY:

The price.  It's pretty much in line with boutique/non-entry level 1911's in that there is an $1000 cool guy tax and the gun is worth the rest.  As it comes, I would value the gun at $1800-2000 easy, but that's with the one backstrap, sight option and 2 mags.   Give me 3 mags, all the front sight inserts and both backstraps and then we can talk a couple hundred higher.

The X-Tac grip design is just plain fucking ugly.  I get why they do it for carry purposes as 20 LPI and aggressive G10 grips can be harsh on skin and clothing. 

 

Personally, I have been enjoying the pistol and have very high hopes for the gun in the future.  I'm going to monkey with it this year and maybe take it to a class next year if it goes well. 

While many dismiss this as Wilson's answer to a 2011; I don't think that's fully accurate.  While 2011's can be very nice guns they invite many of the same 1911 problems and some additional ones (I had someone recently explain to me how to tune/tweak 2011 magazines...fuck that noise). 

Were I Bill Wilson for a day, I would consider expanding some of the 1911 options to this gun (rollmark/texture/sight options) and even see if I could do a comped carry model...a 1" profile comp would look fucking sweet.  Likewise, a full-size 5", 18-round version of this animal would also raise some eyebrows so long as they don't get too stupid on the price.

 

 

 

"Pain, we endure...faulty weaponry, we do not."

I have A Kimber ultra Aegis I need to Get back from my Kydex guy.  It’s in 9mm and runs with brass case 9mm no problems, wolf decent not a lot of stoppages but Federal and CCi Aluminum case not so great.  If I was to do it again I would skip it because the price is more than I would spend on a M&P shield or a Glock 43.  Granted it does shoot well.

 

So, I literally have the world's ugliest Kimber in 45. The fucker shoots! I had to replace the trigger spring because JoJo the Gun Plumber got into it, but that dam things RUNS (Custom Stainless II). It LOVES Chip McCormick mags....

Bart 

"I've got an 8 man team and we're at the Michael Jackson Theater. There's a thousand people in there. We'll protect them."

Unit 792, 01Oct17

"I prayed for them to stop, but God is bisy" Ryan, defending his twin sister in a letter to Santa

Doug Mitchell posted:
MOJONIXON posted:

Doug, 

What's unrealistic about the EMP4 except maybe the cost?  

The cost is enough - especially when considering that sometimes 1911 format pistols need this 'n' that, which at least can be done in the Springfield custom shop. For the same or less money I can have a Glock 19L (chopped 17) with improved sights and all that stuff, with a lot more capacity.

Or if anyone would prefer the heft of a steel frame with cocked and locked carry, they could just get a CZ.  (*I was thinking of the Wilson 9mm EDC when writing this).

It is better that they do it imperfectly than that you do it perfectly. For it is their war and their country and your time here is limited.

 

                                                                                                                        —T. E. Lawrence

 

 

POSREP: UAE

jcustisredux posted:
Doug Mitchell posted:
MOJONIXON posted:

Doug, 

What's unrealistic about the EMP4 except maybe the cost?  

The cost is enough - especially when considering that sometimes 1911 format pistols need this 'n' that, which at least can be done in the Springfield custom shop. For the same or less money I can have a Glock 19L (chopped 17) with improved sights and all that stuff, with a lot more capacity.

Or if anyone would prefer the heft of a steel frame with cocked and locked carry, they could just get a CZ.  (*I was thinking of the Wilson 9mm EDC when writing this).

For me, trying to cling to "cocked&locked" in non 1911/HP/p210 has done me more harm than good.  

My purchase had less to do with value and nearly everything to do with sentiment and tradition.  Plus I don't feel like becoming a CZ hipster just yet.

"Pain, we endure...faulty weaponry, we do not."

So, what's the answer?  If I wanted a good quality, 4"/Commander 1911 in 9mm?  Prefer a "Lightweight" option, prefer a 10+1 mag capacity, prefer most of the "add ons" already be installed (extended slide safety, beaver tail grip, night sights, etc. to make it a combat pistol) and prefer it under the $1K mark (but would tolerate up to $1500 for the right "name"+ build).  Of course Colt comes to the forefront, along with Springfield , Remington, and Kimber.  Like I said, >$1500, so NO STI 2011 or Wilson (although I LOVE my Wilson Professional 4").  Doesn't have to be "pretty", don't care about bob or no bob, don't care if it's factory ceracoated….Just looking for something in 1911 9mm that I can depend on and that takes trusted magazines and runs like a raped ape.


If it's a Pain in the Ass....you're doing it WRONG

I don't make policy, only suggestions, take them as such.

 

Joined: 8/5/05    Location: 20 miles west of Gettysburg, PA

 

 

Cytez posted:

So, what's the answer?  If I wanted a good quality, 4"/Commander 1911 in 9mm?  Prefer a "Lightweight" option, prefer a 10+1 mag capacity, prefer most of the "add ons" already be installed (extended slide safety, beaver tail grip, night sights, etc. to make it a combat pistol) and prefer it under the $1K mark (but would tolerate up to $1500 for the right "name"+ build).  Of course Colt comes to the forefront, along with Springfield , Remington, and Kimber.  Like I said, >$1500, so NO STI 2011 or Wilson (although I LOVE my Wilson Professional 4").  Doesn't have to be "pretty", don't care about bob or no bob, don't care if it's factory ceracoated….Just looking for something in 1911 9mm that I can depend on and that takes trusted magazines and runs like a raped ape.

https://www.springfield-armory...weight-champion-9mm/

I have no experience with this gun, but I'm somewhat intrigued.  It is worth researching I think as it meets your specs and does it in a gun designed from the start for 9mm and .40 S&W rather than .45acp.

https://www.springfield-armory.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/05/PI9211LP_1200x782.png

-------------------------

Mark

Swear allegiance to the flag Whatever flag they offer

Never hint at what you really feel

Teach the children quietly For some day sons and daughters

Will rise up and fight while we stood still

 

Joined:  2/24/2003                          Location:  Nevada, USA

Dorsai,

Re: the Springfield EMP.
One of my lurker friends on here from WA state bought one in 9mm for his wife, which means he shoots most of the ammo out it. He said the technical term for this particular pistol model is "Giggle Factory". His (hers) runs like a champ, is very accurate, has less recoil than popcorn, and is cheap to shoot.

He is the type who reloads with both Dillion 550 and 650 because one machine won't keep up with his shooting habits. He has not worn out the EMP yet.... And that is with many 5 gallon buckets of reloads through it.

Cytez posted:

So, what's the answer?  If I wanted a good quality, 4"/Commander 1911 in 9mm?  Prefer a "Lightweight" option, prefer a 10+1 mag capacity, prefer most of the "add ons" already be installed (extended slide safety, beaver tail grip, night sights, etc. to make it a combat pistol) and prefer it under the $1K mark (but would tolerate up to $1500 for the right "name"+ build).  Of course Colt comes to the forefront, along with Springfield , Remington, and Kimber.  Like I said, >$1500, so NO STI 2011 or Wilson (although I LOVE my Wilson Professional 4").  Doesn't have to be "pretty", don't care about bob or no bob, don't care if it's factory ceracoated….Just looking for something in 1911 9mm that I can depend on and that takes trusted magazines and runs like a raped ape.

What about a Dan Wesson? They tend to be the go-to recommendation I see these days for 9mm 1911s that aren't WC levels of cost, particularly if you qualify for CZ's pro deal (which is pretty legit).

Plus ça change, plus c'est la même chose.

 

老僧三十年前未參禪時、見山是山、見水是水、及至後夾親見知識、有箇入處、見山不是山、見水不是水、而今得箇體歇處、依然見山秪是山、見水秪是水。


Joined: 2008-07-16

Longeye, are referencing the original 3” EMP or the newer EMP 4” model. 

The EMP4 has me intrigued. 

Mojo/Mark
__________________________
Yo homey, is that my briefcase...?
Vincent from "Collateral"
__________________________
You want the good life, you break your back, you snap your fingers, you snap your neck... Prong/Demon Hunter
__________________________

Because...I Can. 


Joined: 9/30/09
Location: Northern Nevada (Reno/Sparks)

The SA EMP is definitely something to look at.  Fortunately, my local Gander says it has one in stock that I can go finger fuck.  The Dan Wesson is interesting as well.  BUT, no one local has one for me to look at; so now I'm relying on people here to give me a good review.  As it's +/- $500 more, it would take some pretty good convincing to go that direction.  $500 could buy a case of ammo and extra magazines to ring out the EMP.  Speaking of magazines, which ones to trust?  Of course the SA comes with 3x SA mags, and that's fine, but are there any after market mags that are "better"?  Any higher capacity (10+) mags out there that are reliable?  


If it's a Pain in the Ass....you're doing it WRONG

I don't make policy, only suggestions, take them as such.

 

Joined: 8/5/05    Location: 20 miles west of Gettysburg, PA

 

 

I may be wrong, but, I believe the OEM manufacturer for the SA EMP Mags is Mecgar. 

While they aren't "the number one most uber" mag manufacturer... you could easilly do a lot worse....

Dave

------------------------------------- "A True Warrior knows neither Left or Right"  Looking for a doc who can fix my allergies.. Stupid People and IED's...

MECGAR (six of them) have been running in my SA 45ACP Champion for about 2 decades now.  Never a problem with the mags OR the gun (and I ran it in a Steve Fisher class!)

RD

 

.......................................................................................................

For those of you who believe history began when you were born, educate yourselves. ~ Pat Rogers

Adversity can shape and perfect us, and horrible adversity can make us champions. ~ Maskirovka

 

Joined: 26 Aug 2008           Location: The Libitard Center of Oregon

Note: If you see "edited" assume it was to adjust for fat-finger typing.

I carried MECGAR mags for my issued M9 since 2001- to include my deployments with NO issues at all.

Additionally, I use them in 3 of my 1911s and have had ZERO mag related failures.

So.. I may be a little biased towards them.

------------------------------------- "A True Warrior knows neither Left or Right"  Looking for a doc who can fix my allergies.. Stupid People and IED's...

If I don't buy the Robar RC-1911EAG 9mm I may settle for the EMP 4 Champion.  My 45ACP version has neve let me down so....

It's not the "cool guy" buy but I can't argue with the performance!

RD

 

 

.......................................................................................................

For those of you who believe history began when you were born, educate yourselves. ~ Pat Rogers

Adversity can shape and perfect us, and horrible adversity can make us champions. ~ Maskirovka

 

Joined: 26 Aug 2008           Location: The Libitard Center of Oregon

Note: If you see "edited" assume it was to adjust for fat-finger typing.

RidgeDog posted:

If I don't buy the Robar RC-1911EAG 9mm I may settle for the EMP 4 Champion.  My 45ACP version has neve let me down so....

It's not the "cool guy" buy but I can't argue with the performance!

RD

 

I applaud your style, but those are really apples and oranges.  As in 3 orange for 1 apple.

-------------------------

Mark

Swear allegiance to the flag Whatever flag they offer

Never hint at what you really feel

Teach the children quietly For some day sons and daughters

Will rise up and fight while we stood still

 

Joined:  2/24/2003                          Location:  Nevada, USA

Dorsai posted:
RidgeDog posted:

If I don't buy the Robar RC-1911EAG 9mm I may settle for the EMP 4 Champion.  My 45ACP version has neve let me down so....

It's not the "cool guy" buy but I can't argue with the performance!

RD

 

I applaud your style, but those are really apples and oranges.  As in 3 orange for 1 apple.

 Ya think?!? 

Part of the Robar consideration is the EAG association.  I couldn't afford to bid high enough for the first one at FOP two years ago and I didn't win the one Chappy put up for raffle this year.    So that is where the "settle for" comes into play regarding the EMP 4.  At least it would let me play with a 1911 in 9mm … 

RD

 

.......................................................................................................

For those of you who believe history began when you were born, educate yourselves. ~ Pat Rogers

Adversity can shape and perfect us, and horrible adversity can make us champions. ~ Maskirovka

 

Joined: 26 Aug 2008           Location: The Libitard Center of Oregon

Note: If you see "edited" assume it was to adjust for fat-finger typing.

Wasnt there a bit of a stir within the past year about a Springfield 9mm Operator?  Some said it ran well, some said it needed a recoil spring change.   I believe it was called the "combat operator".       I toyed with the idea of getting one for a while but decided to go a different direction and never got a chance to shoot one.  

combat operator

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