Wait... there is one? We got a box of the reversible tarpaulins, and the instructions include: 

Lots about how to snap it together to make more complex shelters. But I've never heard of this in any detail. And where do you get the poles? 

I do hear plenty of love of ponchos and stuff, but never these. Are they not actually issued to Soldiers and Marines (there's a MARPAT one) in reality much or is there some reason to hate it or what? 

Because we just got them, haven't used yet, but it seems solid. Good balance of sturdyness, with reasonably low weight and bulk. Clever snaps. Even the UCP ones are the least-hateful version of that camo I have seen, with good color, and the reverse is practically that more grayish looking european "OD Green" you see on their vinyl gear sometimes. 

Likely to have a few at this mid-January event, so may snap them together into combined shelters, seeking advice on other tricks if you know any, before we have to figure them out ourselves. 

The things that will destroy America are prosperity at any price, peace at any price, safety first instead of duty first, the love of soft living and the get rich quick theory of life. – Theodore Roosevelt

 

Joined: 19NOV2004   Location: Mission, Kansas

Original Post

Decent video. Have had way too much instruction, and sleeping under one. I like mostly that they are modular, so you can make Von Ruck shelters, for example. Nothing like that I know of otherwise.

The reversible tarp is at least better than canvas to line, and top, fighting positions and hide sites. Seems good. But... maybe I am missing something? 

The things that will destroy America are prosperity at any price, peace at any price, safety first instead of duty first, the love of soft living and the get rich quick theory of life. – Theodore Roosevelt

 

Joined: 19NOV2004   Location: Mission, Kansas

Wow modern shelter halves, whooda thunk it.

Have we gotten past our little one-person safe spaces?

Well, it's hard to beat the Brit "Basha" in this category.  They have been quietly using them for decades as we experiment with all sorts of shit.  It's actually big enough for two under there, so no need to join anything.  As an added bonus it's reinforced with enough webbing so it makes a good cas-evac carrier as well.  You can still get good MTP surplus from Kit Monster on these things.    

These look like fun to try out, although I'm allergic to ACU.  If you find some in OCP, might be worth a look.  

This is and has been my primary shelter system, for at least 3 seasons.  If I go to a tent, it will be a no-shit 4-season model.    

"Pacifism is a shifty doctrine where a person claims all the benefits of the body politic, without any of the responsibilities, and then claims a halo for their dishonesty." Heinlein

At least in the Utah Guard, all new soldiers are being issued this tarp instead of the traditional poncho. I think the intent is that these are intended to be a more effective, versatile personal shelter. However, we are also issued a one- or two-man Lightfighter-brand tent, so I've never seen anyone use a tarp or poncho at all.

Personally, I feel like they are too heavy and bulky for what they are intended for, and without any loops or anything like the poncho hood, you can't rig up the center to a convenient branch to give yourself more headroom. 

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Location: Utah

Good point on center loops. Hadn't tried it so hadn't noticed. The ICS fly I normally carry has many of these points but is so catastrophically un-square it is an issue using it to try to cover a group, etc. 

Talking with someone on PMs this seems like it is trying to be in the Basha range, as an individual shelter but... the snaps allow you to tie several together. At least in [some armies] the individual square tarps issued snap together like this, so while I hadn't seen that in any manual or demo videos, it's an extant capability. Maybe where the idea for the whole thing came from.  

THEGUZZ, are they in UCP or is there a magical MC one or what? Are they issuing poles, lines, stakes or you just make do? 

 

The things that will destroy America are prosperity at any price, peace at any price, safety first instead of duty first, the love of soft living and the get rich quick theory of life. – Theodore Roosevelt

 

Joined: 19NOV2004   Location: Mission, Kansas

shoobe01 posted:

 

THEGUZZ, are they in UCP or is there a magical MC one or what? Are they issuing poles, lines, stakes or you just make do? 

Every one I've seen has been UCP, with no accompanying equipment issued. Few people seem to know that they are intended to be used as a shelter.

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Location: Utah

New issue UCP, awesome. 

Also, ruining all my professional joy over the instructions being right on it. Should have quoted myself: "no one reads." People still don't know what it's for! 

The things that will destroy America are prosperity at any price, peace at any price, safety first instead of duty first, the love of soft living and the get rich quick theory of life. – Theodore Roosevelt

 

Joined: 19NOV2004   Location: Mission, Kansas

Back in the '80's in the SADF we were issued two pieces of similar gear.

The first was a waterproof, heavy duty groundsheet about 1 meter by 2 meters with handles and double sided metal press studs along the edges.

It could be used as a groundsheet, or as a carry sheet for a casualty.

The second, was a poncho, about 2 meters by 2 meters, made of the same material, with a hood in the center that was able to cinch up completely to close it off, and double sided metal press studs along the edges and paracord stashed in little pockets at the corners and in the middle of each edge.

It could be used as a basha, or attached to the groundsheet to make a one man tent.

You could also attach any number of both together to make two, three, four, etc. man tents as required.

They were the standard nutria brown as the rest of our gear (which worked very well in our area of ops), and rolled up and fit either in, under, or on our battlejackets or external frame packs.

Regards.

Mark

Formerly known as ML

I enjoy playing shelter origami with a 3m x 3m basha. Loads of options. Just need imagination and paracord.

—————————————————————————————————————————————-

“Fate whispers to the warrior, ‘You cannot withstand the storm.’ The warrior whispers back, ‘I am the storm.’”

 

”Lefty tossers!”   - Boris Johnson, Dec 11, 2019.

 

Joined: 2003          Location: At home pretending to be retired (again).

shoobe01 posted:

New issue UCP, awesome. 

Also, ruining all my professional joy over the instructions being right on it. Should have quoted myself: "no one reads." People still don't know what it's for! 

Yeah, this is one of my biggest pet peeves; there are tags on everything, but no one reads them, or, alternatively, people call things by the incorrect name, like repeatedly calling an IOTV a flak vest. It's my personal crusade to get people to stop calling every form of load bearing equipment a "FLC".

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Location: Utah

theGuzz posted:
shoobe01 posted:

New issue UCP, awesome. 

Also, ruining all my professional joy over the instructions being right on it. Should have quoted myself: "no one reads." People still don't know what it's for! 

Yeah, this is one of my biggest pet peeves; there are tags on everything, but no one reads them, or, alternatively, people call things by the incorrect name, like repeatedly calling an IOTV a flak vest. It's my personal crusade to get people to stop calling every form of load bearing equipment a "FLC".

The amount of confusion I caused by insisting on calling every piece of the ECWCS by it's tagged name, or on the new OCP-colored ACUs being annotated as such, was both awkward and amusing.

As to the shelter half/tarp, this is another area where deliberate/not- negligent use of our own kit could be useful.  The Ultralighters have been using cut to shape silnylon tarps for years to good effect.  They are often called tarps, but they are shaped to be mostly closed at the end and use your trekking poles, sticks, or tying off to things above to suspend the center line.  A few are also designed with hoods to become ponchos.  They typically weigh less than 2 pound including titanium stakes and 3mm line.

An expert proponent of the concept explains at this link: https://andrewskurka.com/gear-...tralight-minimalism/

-Von

Have you guys checked out the Zelter shelter?

—————————————————————————————————————————————-

“Fate whispers to the warrior, ‘You cannot withstand the storm.’ The warrior whispers back, ‘I am the storm.’”

 

”Lefty tossers!”   - Boris Johnson, Dec 11, 2019.

 

Joined: 2003          Location: At home pretending to be retired (again).

I think that if we can presume that a shelter doesn't have to be overbuilt, we have a lot of options for combos of shelters, tarps, and ponchos.  Most lean towards shelter.  Sorry if this is off-base.

My only concerns with the Zelter, is that I'm not sold on Waterproof/Breathable fabrics for all but some very specific situations, and it's only advantage doesn't really apply (presuming it even works) in this role; once you have the weigh penalty of zippers and vents, mechanical venting work better than fabric breathability in balancing wind and precipitation protection vs bleeding off excess vapor inside the shelter.

https://www.sixmoondesigns.com...oducts/gatewood-cape

https://wildernessinnovation.c...al-survival-shelter/

http://www.survival-solutions....-s-e-c--details.html

https://seatosummitusa.com/pro...sil-nano-tarp-poncho

https://mountainlaureldesigns....mld-pro-rain-poncho/

-Von

I have several UL things that are used less than I expected because of various concerns. Waterproofness is a bit secondary on some. Sturdiness can be iffy, usually not in materials but ancillaries, like attachments, fasteners. 

And then stuff we've assumed is table stakes but is not. The Mountain Laurel shelter/poncho appears to be the same material as the ML bivy I have. Which is so crunchy (loud) I can barely sleep in it.

Plus many only available in odd colors, translucent or at least not lightproof, etc.

I have a few other tarps and other shelters, I should say. But I like the idea of modular, and everyone having the same modular one for those times when you need to all huddle together from the storm. 

The things that will destroy America are prosperity at any price, peace at any price, safety first instead of duty first, the love of soft living and the get rich quick theory of life. – Theodore Roosevelt

 

Joined: 19NOV2004   Location: Mission, Kansas

Linz posted:
shoobe01 posted:

I have a few other tarps and other shelters, I should say. But I like the idea of modular, and everyone having the same modular one for those times when you need to all huddle together from the storm. 

Yup.

Plus clip together for improvised:

-first aid posts

-CP

-waterproofing/camouflaging/shading  goods, ammunition, stores...

-shade for mechanical work

Basically, lighter, more versatile & easier to carry about than a tarp in most circumstances.  Well worthwhile cadging a few extra from your logistics staff.

Oh, did I mention water crossings?

Just found out our new Joes aren't even being issued ponchos for initial issue anymore btw, apparently they don't make them in OCP? Seems like a big oversight for an Infantry unit...

 

I use my old woodland poncho in the field, but also have a British Basha Diz mentioned- much much better all around. Bigger, heavier duty (this is good and bad), and no hole in the middle to tie up (it's a tarp not a poncho). I picked up a MTP (Multicam) one for cheap off ebay, but since then they seemed to have gone up in price.   

PRAISE THE FALLEN

SSG Kevin Roberts KIA 7-May-08         SPC Peter Courcy KIA 10-Feb-09

1Lt Nick Dewhirst KIA 20-July-08          PFC Jason Watson KIA 10-Feb-09

CPL Charles Gaffney KIA 24-Dec-08

 

Joined: 2/21/04          Location: Seattle,  WA

kaltesherz posted:

Just found out our new Joes aren't even being issued ponchos for initial issue anymore btw, apparently they don't make them in OCP? Seems like a big oversight for an Infantry unit...

Of course not. I've seen OCP A-Bags... which had to replace UCP A-bags, which replaced: ODG ones, because before this century no one thought that the dumbass duffel needed to match your battle uniform, seriously. 

But: no need for ponchos to be updated. This would seem like a good example of who is making the decisions. I bet there are OCP laptop bags in the system. 

The things that will destroy America are prosperity at any price, peace at any price, safety first instead of duty first, the love of soft living and the get rich quick theory of life. – Theodore Roosevelt

 

Joined: 19NOV2004   Location: Mission, Kansas

Anyone know anything about these guys, or better yet these specific items: 

https://bushcraftoutfitters.com/multicam-tarp-10x10/

https://bushcraftoutfitters.com/mest-multicam/

Since not cheap. Weight seems more acceptable, esp for the size. Friend looking.

 

Also, same friend asked Marine buddy he has, not member, not mine: yes they issue the same Reversible Tarp in MARPAT, use it all the time. No more details available ATT. 

The things that will destroy America are prosperity at any price, peace at any price, safety first instead of duty first, the love of soft living and the get rich quick theory of life. – Theodore Roosevelt

 

Joined: 19NOV2004   Location: Mission, Kansas

The corps started issuing that same reversible tarp just in MARPAT/coyote awhile back that was great. I did miss poncho mode on a couple occasions, but not often. 

i always carried my old poncho anyways, then I got one from Bushcraft outfitters and have loved it. Light and packable, perfect for me now. 

they also make a shelter half 

https://bushcraftoutfitters.co...odular-shelter-half/

 

ETA: @shoobe01 the Bushcraft outfitters tarps are GTG, I’ve been carrying and using their silnylon poncho for a few years now as my primary shelter. Good kit. 

If I didn't make that clear, as far as I can tell the USMC tarp is absolutely identical to the Army tarp except in color/pattern. 

Which... is probably a good thing all in all. 

The things that will destroy America are prosperity at any price, peace at any price, safety first instead of duty first, the love of soft living and the get rich quick theory of life. – Theodore Roosevelt

 

Joined: 19NOV2004   Location: Mission, Kansas

 

But: no need for ponchos to be updated. This would seem like a good example of who is making the decisions. I bet there are OCP laptop bags in the system. 

Exactly- no ponchos or wobbies, but OCP golf bags coming to a CIF near you. 

The Army's had support / soft skills in charge of acquisition for far too long...

PRAISE THE FALLEN

SSG Kevin Roberts KIA 7-May-08         SPC Peter Courcy KIA 10-Feb-09

1Lt Nick Dewhirst KIA 20-July-08          PFC Jason Watson KIA 10-Feb-09

CPL Charles Gaffney KIA 24-Dec-08

 

Joined: 2/21/04          Location: Seattle,  WA

Linz posted:
Linz posted:
shoobe01 posted:

I have a few other tarps and other shelters, I should say. But I like the idea of modular, and everyone having the same modular one for those times when you need to all huddle together from the storm. 

Yup.

Plus clip together for improvised:

-first aid posts

-CP

-waterproofing/camouflaging/shading  goods, ammunition, stores...

-shade for mechanical work

Basically, lighter, more versatile & easier to carry about than a tarp in most circumstances.  Well worthwhile cadging a few extra from your logistics staff.

Oh, did I mention water crossings?

I love this concept, but I think we almost need to create specific training time to educate soldiers on the capabilities of such equipment, otherwise we have a very capable but underutilized piece of equipment. Granted, my experience is fairly limited, but I set up poncho and tarp shelters far more often in ROTC and on backpacking trips than I did in two different combat engineering units. The knowledge base just wasn't there. 

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Location: Utah

We issue the exact same item in Green MARPAT/ coyote brown from CIF. No instructions printed on them though.... Comes as part of the basic issue, my guys will use them to cover packs and gear if staged or to build shelters over their bivy's in the field. It is popular to carry two of them at times, so that you can accomplish both tasks.  Best way to carry them is folded in thirds and then wrapped around the ISO mat on the outside of the pack so that you can get to it quickly and the and put it away quickly if moving. Keeps you from stuffing wet tarp inside the ruck....

Of course the tarps that come in the 60mm and 81mm Mortar crates are popular as well, and pack down even smaller and lighter.....

"If you are not prepared to use force to defend civilization, then be prepared to accept barbarism."         - Thomas Sowell

"A Republic, if you can keep it" - Ben Franklin

 

LOCATION: ....

JOINED:  Feb 2012

     

A picked up a surplus Marine  version a couple years ago. Used it to cover stuff(pulk,wood) when winter camping and it just fits across the front of the Andirondak shelters at the campsites we go to. Closes in the front or as a fly out front. It's a little smaller than the USGI poncho. Speaking of poncho I've been watching a youtube channel of a Brit Inf Sgt https://www.youtubeDOTcom/channel/UCKiR8FI-jZ4iSohllnVZZtQ I haven't heard him use the term Basha which I always read was the the Brit term for tarp. He uses poncho instead and this if for a tarp. He does do a review of a poncho and thinks it a good piece of kit.

Col. Rowe's list of 1st,2nd,and 3rd line from that old Outside Magazine(OCT 86) article lists two ponchos in 3rd line/first class food shelter . I only have a scanned and faxed copy but I copied the Survival Kit into a Word Doc. I think it is correct.

"Colonel Rowe’s Survival Kit

When Colonel James Rowe hits the trail he carries three separate survival kits. The first-class model stays in his ruck sack, but if that one gets lost or has to be abandoned for a lighter load, he has the second-class unit on a harness that hangs between his shoulder blades. If that one must be sloughed off, there’s always his “last-line” kit in his shirt pocket. With this one and his trusty knife, Rowe can live indefinitely. Bet on it.

FIRST-CLASS KIT

Medical Equipment

About the size of a cigar box. Weighs 24 ounces

IV tubing and dextrose solution-Suture thread and needles (“Forget that Rambo garbage.”)-Scalpel Blades-Betadine Antiseptic solution-Tetracycline tablets-Bee sting kit(Epinephrine pills and injection-Lomotil-Aspirin-Sunscreen-Alcohol wipes-Band-aids- Field compresses-Triangular bandage-Eye-injury kit(ophthanlmic ointment, eye pad, and eye wipe)

Food and Shelter Equipment

Small packets of curry powder (“for napalming your taste buds”)-Iodine tablets( for water purification)-Coffee and sugar-Signal Mirror-Pen Flare-Space blanket-Wire saw-Compass-Candle-Waterproof matches-Magnesium block fire starter-Net hammock-Nylon cord-Five quart water container with clamp and IV tube to run directly from pack to mouth-Fishing kit(fresh and saltwater hooks and lures, gill nets, 25 pound test line, red felt, and sinkers)-Two ponchos and a poncho liner-Army Survival Manual FM21-76(Pocket sized compendium of everything you wanted to know about survival, and Rowe wrote the book. Literally. It’s available through the Government Printing Office.)

SECOND-CLASS KIT

About the size of a 3x5 card box weight 22ounces

Small folding knives with vary hard carbide-steel blade (doubles as a scalpel)-Suture needles – Antiseptic solution-Silk sewing thread-Waterproof matches-Strobe light-Iodine tablets-Coffee and sugar-Aluminum foil(for cooking, signaling, or fishing lures)-Bullion-Fishing lines and hooks-Candle-Compass

LAST-LINE KIT

About the size of a band aid box

Iodine tablets-Compass-Fishing lines and hooks-Waterproof matches-Band aids-Antiseptic solution-Butterfly sutures"

My go to tarp is a 10x10 Cookes Custom Sewing https://www.shop.cookecustomsewingDOTcom/product.sc?productId=175&categoryId=12

Joined  4/5/03  Location Maine

Overhead cover is anything a Grunt can come up with.   So I find it deeply disturbing that modern day troops are so far removed from good "bushcraft" that a perfectly good tarp/shelter half would go unused.  I used to be amazed at what supposedly uneducated, unsophisticated, and unmotivated troops could get up to.  Nowadays that kind of hillbilly engineering seems all but lost.  

Any kind of overhead cover, in it's simplest form, is merely a rectangle-shaped piece of material.  Now you can gussie that up with all manner of things, and charge a shit-load of money for it, but my question is why?  As a confirmed gear queer, with 30+ years of tom-foolery I have noticed a few things about this stuff.  First is why the fuck can't the military field a simple overhead cover for the troops.  That would take days to answer so let's move on.  Secondly, proceed with caution when looking at what all these supposed SME's are doing in civvy street.  There are multiple reasons for why guys come up with the shit they do.   As a nitwit who has set out to improve my kit, I have sat enthralled by the Good Idea Fairey, making all manner of things.   And here's the rub.  Designing and testing shit, when you are warm, dry, well fed, and of sound mind and body bears very little resemblance to actual field conditions.  All these little geniuses out there, with their ultra-lite kit, in east bumfuck Montana, are under ideal field conditions.  Even when they think they're not.  You have to take a lot of that shit with a grain of salt.  Third-ely, I think a lot of these guys are just coming up with shit to get attention, as in look how clever I am, rather than looking for some kind of practical solution.

To the OP, if we take the modern shelter half, you can take a very simple concept, as in any scrounged cover, and turn it into some kind of science project, with special materials, and all sorts of features.  Seriously?  There are nomadic tribes that have erected this kind of cover for centuries, with whatever materials are at hand, and they would be looking at you like what the fuck, in the appropriate foreign tongue.    

And perhaps therein lies the answer.  Simple folk that live close to the land have this shit all dialed in.  People from the info age, not so much.  The farther out we get into all this hi-tech, the stupider we get with the basics of surviving and thriving in meatspace.

Editorial aside, USMC overhead cover, perhaps Army overhead cover (if OCP), the Brit Basha in MTP, various commercial ponchos, and any tarp-like object not nailed down would make a good piece of cover.  Snaps are appallingly simple to add, even in the field, so making all manner of hooches, for various apps, is fairly simple.  What's missing is the (good, old fashioned) improvisation needed to make it happen.                

"Pacifism is a shifty doctrine where a person claims all the benefits of the body politic, without any of the responsibilities, and then claims a halo for their dishonesty." Heinlein

Not to jack thread, but to answer OP, no, there's really no good reason that simple tarp shelters aren't used more than they might be; the concept is sound, but the motivation to use it is missing, especially when you have your own little personal shelter system available.  

"Pacifism is a shifty doctrine where a person claims all the benefits of the body politic, without any of the responsibilities, and then claims a halo for their dishonesty." Heinlein

So, I've totally been part of a group dropped off in the woods (no map, we'll come get you later) with only minimal supplies, so forced to make shelter. On a cold and rainy night. With minimal instruction, just not that hard. I only failed to get a good night's sleep in my bent-branches and leaves shelter because others didn't listen so sat up bitching about it instead. 

So, I barely consciously recognize that not everyone does this. Sure, I'll sleep in a tent, or a hotel room, when I can. But if that's not available, I've been quite happy to crawl under a grove of spruce trees with a sleeping bag and pad, and be warm and dry while there's a foot of snow accumulating outside. 

Too bad that's apparently becoming too much a lost skillset. 

The things that will destroy America are prosperity at any price, peace at any price, safety first instead of duty first, the love of soft living and the get rich quick theory of life. – Theodore Roosevelt

 

Joined: 19NOV2004   Location: Mission, Kansas

source on the ocp version of this tarp? My USMC one sags like a mo-fo in the middle so I tend to not use it even though I like it a lot. Has this tarp fixed that issue? I've gone to a snugpak stasha since it's stupid light and packs small at the expense of long term durability and probably not being able to evac someone with it.

dirtpro posted:

source on the ocp version of this tarp? My USMC one sags like a mo-fo in the middle so I tend to not use it even though I like it a lot. Has this tarp fixed that issue? I've gone to a snugpak stasha since it's stupid light and packs small at the expense of long term durability and probably not being able to evac someone with it.

As far as I'm aware, an OCP version may not exist. The Army may be waiting until existing UCP stocks are depleted until they make/issue an OCP version.

The sagging issue is probably the same, as there doesn't seem to be any effective difference in design between the two. 

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Location: Utah

To prevent the sag you either need a good ridgeline that will pull, and stay, taught; or you need guylines on the ends that will pull, and stay, taught; or you need support poles holding up the ends using guylines that will pull, and stay, taught.  Sensing a trend?  550 cord stretches after being pulled tight, and can sag.  Find a less stretchy cord for guylines or just be aware you’ll have to tighten things up.  Bungee cords can make good guylines because the stretch is self correcting.  If these “field tarps” are made from the same material as the original poncho, they will also stretch some under tension.

------------------------------------
Assaulting enemy camps from 400 yards away since 1972.

"There is no nice way to arrest a potentially dangerous, combative suspect. The police are our bodyguards; our hired fists, batons and guns. We pay them to do the dirty work of protecting us. The work we're too afraid, too unskilled, or too civilized to do ourselves. We expect them to keep the bad guys out of our businesses, out of our cars, out of our houses, and out of our faces. We just don't want to see how its done."
-Charles H. Webb, Ph.D.

Joined Lightfighter 1.0: early 2001, Lightfighter 2.0 11/19/02

Location:  Fucking Connecticut.  Goddammit.

Diz, shoobe, I think part of the problem, at least from my limited experience, was SNCOs who wouldn't allow "shelters" in a bivouac. 

Everything had to be covered and aligned and all exactly the same. So no one was ever able to utilize them.

Once I got into a position where I could implement some change I started showing guys different ways to set up their tarps for quick and longer term shelters. 

The tarps are also very handy for hide site construction IMO.  

Everything has to be tightened. Twice a day in a GP Large, go out in the snow and ice and re-adjust every line. I've gone to aluminum adjustable sliders sewn to the ends of all my paracord lines.  

I've done that partly because I am just about to give up on bungees. Maybe the short thick ones as on the tarps, but long bungees stretch too much. And, the mini bungee ends are plastic, shatter etc too much. Been updating those with hog ringed loops to secure the same aluminum retainers, but still want a good small hook for the other end, haven't found one I like.  

The things that will destroy America are prosperity at any price, peace at any price, safety first instead of duty first, the love of soft living and the get rich quick theory of life. – Theodore Roosevelt

 

Joined: 19NOV2004   Location: Mission, Kansas

Missing from a lot of this narrative is how your solution works 6 weeks into your deployment.  What is seemingly simple can be become very complex when you have a nasty cold, you haven't slept well for days, and it's so cold you're shaking like a dog shittin' a peach seed.  When you get to this point, you need something that is real simple to set up and tear down.  Until you reach this point, it's hard to explain why all these spiffy solutions are not value-add as they say.  

Another point is to separate what you'd set up in base camp, FOB, etc, versus what a small patrol sets up on a nightly basis, with a morning stand-to.   In other words, what grunts would actually do in the field, not in base camp.  

And of course,  moving away from any urban environment, where any kind of structure available will be utilized.  And in some kind of woodland environment, where natural tent poles abound.  

Point being, the modern warfighter really hasn't been in deep woodlands all that much to really get his jungle on.

Actually the last time I used a shelter half, the WWII canvas job, was a 3-day war at TBS.  It was the middle of February with several inches of snow on the ground.  My buddy and I were so sick,  we could hardly stand.  We put one shelter half in the bottom of our fighting hole, and covered ourselves up with the other one.  It snowed overnight and covered us up.  Since we were out of sight, out of mind, we slept damn-near 24 hours and woke up new men.  Packed up our shit and marched in with the rest of the company.  Bought the Squad Leader several beers for having the good sense to let us rest.  That was the best use I ever got out of a shelter half.       

"Pacifism is a shifty doctrine where a person claims all the benefits of the body politic, without any of the responsibilities, and then claims a halo for their dishonesty." Heinlein

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