EAG conducted a Carbine Operators Course at Columbia TN 14-16April 2010.
This was our first class at Columbia, and while an Open Enrollment class it was – like the two preceding Columbia MO classes- populated almost entirely by cops. Many LF’s were in this class including Duke, CarolB, Lasertech, 56823, Haji, Matt E, TNYankee, ejeffreyhorn, puma5 and others whos screen names I have mis remembered.
WX on T1 was unusually warm for this area/ time with bright sun and temps in the high 80’s. T2 was a mirror image, and making some wish they had hydrated more on breaks. T3 was just more of the same….

Guns and Gear:
Filthy 14 had stopped running in the MO carbine class but was back up now. We replaced the action spring and it is purring right along, finishing up at 33525 rds.
#31- the prototype for the EAG carbine – performed well in Duke’s able hands. However, he had multiple failures to feed. Duke was using PMC, ammo noted for slower velocity and excessive filth. I took one of my mags loaded with 50gr Fed wally world special and it ran like a striped ass ape.
I traded Duke the Kino for #31 and both guns ran without problems.
The last day CarolB traded her SCAR-L for #31 and using the same PMC ammo (but different lot) and she put 570+ rds downrange without issue.
Clearly some voodoo is taking place.
#31 now has 10067 rds downrange, has never been cleaned and only suffered with Duke’s ammo.

One shooter had his BAD loosed up (Loctite is my friend) and another had his light mount attached to the OEM plastic handguards separate when the handguards broke.
Look. This is my shocked face.

Several people had magazine issues that manifested when they loaded into a bolt open gun. The result- ammo pukin’ into the gun…
Look. This is my shocked face.

Some guys ran cans that eventually caused some issues. I don’t run a can, but this appears to be a common problem with them.
This was an extremely talented crew with a lot of training experience behind them. It showed as they continued to shoot hard and straight, and the scores on the MNQ were the highest we have seen so far.
Scott- the high overall shooter- shot a clean score on the MEU(SOC)- with iron sights. It is after all, the Indian, and not the arrow.
Carol B has this thing about the second drill of the MEU(SOC) course. Last year at Pueblo West she broke her foot- and never said a word about it.
Today, while running up to the firing line in the same drill- she did a belly whopper. As requested in the brief, she did it with grace and dignity, keeping the muzzle downrange and smiling as we reached her.
Her chest…errrr….rig, yeah, chest rig, prevented any injuries.
Nice job Carol!


Thanks again to Donna for her expertise and long hours spent bringing these classed to fruition . This class was especially difficult as some people had legit changes ongoing, and others didn’t understand a thing about obligations when they sign up for a class. Our cancellation policy will soon change as a result of the shenanigans of some.
Thanks of course to Mike H for his continued hard work and patience in keeping the train on the tracks.
This was our first class at the Columbia PD range, and we greatly appreciate the efforts of Jeff D for getting this class going.
Thanks also to Larue Tactical, Bravo Company USA, Magpul, Slip 2000, XS Sights, Viking Tactics, ATS, SureFire and Blue Force Gear for their continued support.
We truly appreciate it.

Larue Tactical
www.laruetactical.com
Bravo Company
www.bravocompanyusa.com
SLiP 2000
www.slip2000.com
XS Sights
www.xssights.com
Viking Tactics
www.vikingtactics.com

Blue Force Gear
www.blueforcegear.com
Surefire
www.surefire.com
Original Post
This class was just stocked with really, really good shooters. I wish I could have been closer to them in scores, but I accomplished my goals for the class, my first "real" carbine class: I learned (many times drinking from the fire hose), I didn't get an M/C (although I was in the running a few times), and I didn't get the semi-coveted-but-not-really That Guy hat. I learned as much from my fellow shooters, both by talking to and observing what they're doing, as I did from Pat and Mike. It'll be a while before it all sinks in, I think.

I am incredibly sore already. This class isn't for the fat and bad of joints. I am both.

I did earn myself a new title, by failing to count. All the way to five is a difficult thing, apparently.

Those of us who know must save those that don't from those that think they do.

"If you count 'three', mister, you'll never hear the man count 'ten'".-John Wayne as Sean Thornton in The Quiet Man

My anger will be aroused, and I will kill you with the sword; your wives will become widows and your children fatherless.-Exodus 22:24

Grace is not my middle name. My greatest concerns were 1 - keep the muzzle downrange, and 2 - don't re-injure the foot. Good on both; what more could I ask for.

Thank you, Pat and Mike for another great class. Thanks also to Jeff Dooley (56823) for hosting, and Vince Morgan, Columbia PD,(CPDsniper) for the range.
GRAVITY - It's not just a good idea. It's the law.
As stated above, talent was obviously present at this class. This was my first class with Pat, and he and Mike surpassed my expectations!!! Thanks Brothers!!! We will do a fall class this year.

I shot next to Duke, and even though he thinks his skills are lacking (which they are not), he kept me going and pushing me to the max every day.

It was nice to put a face to screen names and meet all the lightfighter's in this class.

Thanks to everyone, for a great class!!!!!
This was my first class with Pat and will have to say everything I heard was true. I had very high expectations for the class due to Pat's reputation. I was not disappointed. Mike was also an added asset to the class and learned alot from him also.

Like 56823 it was nice to put faces to the screen names. Look forward to this fall.

Duke always remember "you should never put things up there".

It was great to have such accomplished shooters in the class.

"A teacher is never the giver of truth -- he is a guide, a pointer to the truth that each student must find for himself.  A good teacher is merely a catalyst."  Bruce Lee

The other Matt checking in...made it home (then made it with the HH6 ).

Good time was had. Got caught in the "moment" on day two and earned a Mike-Charlie. I can't explain the screw-up, which is part of the problem. To blatantly steal from Simba5, "I got scared...confused...lost the edge!" There was a good amount of learning that occurred:

1. Hold on to the gun. I had to re-learn that I needed to pull the stock in high and tight while bracing the rest of my body. This greatly improved my hits on day three and is a large part of my better performance on the drills.
2. Use the sling. Once I refreshed my memory on the VTAC's capabilities, I used it to tighten up my hold and this also greatly improved my shooting while simultaneously skinning the right side of my neck. A fair trade-off.
3. Let Pat be in charge. When I could stop over-thinking and pay attention to detail I shot better. You know, little things like, I don't know, shooting where instructed.
4. Transition and save your life. When the carbine is down for ammo or otherwise, use that two pounds of plastic and metal on your side to continue and finish the fight. Harder than it sounds. Despite the moose-cock, I maintain that two contact shots to the forehead solved my problem, even if one-handed. But it was sloppy and not the ideal.
5. Reload at every opportunity. Counting rounds is a loser's game. Guess what? You just shot and that means you are down rounds. How many? Who cares--reload, make ready.
6. Somewhere over Tennessee is a cloud that looks like Pat...small, white, and angry.
7. Don't eat stinky taint jerky. It will fuck with your Karma.

Gear:

1. Carbine - Noveske SBR 10.5 stainless. T1 RDS, BCM Mod4 CH, KAC micros F&R sights, MIAD/CTR furniture, M300 Scout w/ M4Guru's mount. No problems. Good, solid gear. Shot straight nd every single time.
2. AMMO/Mags - PMAGS of all variety loaded with Remington state bid 55g stuff. No issues. I pre-loaded all mags and it made for a much better range experience. My total round expenditure was about 1250, +/- 25.
3. Pistol - G22 with state bid Remington FMJ ammo. No issues.
4. Chest rig - BFG Ten Speed. Worked as advertised. Retained all mags except the one that was above my pistol mags on my belt. They kept pushing it out when kneeling/sitting. The rig is comfy and light-weight. Elastic coloring did show noticeable wear after three days, but is still GTG.
5. Belt - No padded belt for me. Ran a MM/Emdom "Snap-Dragon" (?) 2" web belt with TAG double pistol mag pouch, Blade-Tech drop holster (not a thigh rig), 2x Fastmag pouches, and a EAG dump pouch. The Fastmags were awesome. Once I learned to use them for all reloads and then refresh them from the chest rig, life got easier and my reloads were very ggod. The EAG dumper is the best I've use, period. It stays put, is large, opens and closes easily, and holds enough to be useful. Buy one.
6. MISC - Knee pads were Black Diamond and worked well. The Arcteryx are probably a bit better, but mine worked fine. They did seem to catch a bit on the top when dragged along the ground, Gloves were cheapo Mechanix Fast-Fits that worked well. They are throw-aways, though.

Overall, my gear worked for me, not against me and most of it was selected based on experience in other classes and reading Pat's AARs. I am not planning any changes at this time.

Meeting other LF'ers was great. Simba 5 is a killer. And a pretty nice guy, as well. Haji is much bigger in person. I thought his voice would be deeper. Duke had black shit all over his face each day. Pat's guns really are dirty.

Thanks to our hosts, particularly CPD and Jeff D. Thanks Pat, for the direction, most of the stories, and the continuous, if not subtle, kicks in the ass. Thanks to Mike for the evening two pep-talk, it helped. Thanks to Bryan L. and Bill M. for the entertainment and evening camaraderie.

Now, where the hell did I put my Multi-Cam wallet?

"It's when you fuck up that you will hear from your peers, not when you are doing your job. We expect people to do their jobs, and don't praise them like six year olds who successfully tied their shoes when they do. " - Fatty

 

If in doubt about the tone of my post, please refer to avatar.

What one word sums up this class, Punchy?

"Mindset."

Having the opportunity and privilege to have had 2 days of pistol class (i.e., "aim small with the small weapon, miss small -and hopefully not at all") so recently, ahead of the Carbine Operator's Course, was -to coin SteveS's phrase- a Shot of Go-Time. Focus, concentration -while ever a challenge- were fresh and in the forefront of mind when I trudged on to my gravel lane to get it on with paper Muhj. Coming to a mental screeching halt to perform one thing with the maximum of my capable efficiency and competency -achieve a good sight picture, and then repeat the "do one thing" -press the trigger to the rear, was my amended goal for this class.

This was my 4th EAG class; 3rd COC. What was the resulting lesson learned from trying to achieve my goal?

I need yet more properly supervised practice to make permanent. I need more dry fire, I need more pressing of the trigger with live ammunition -and under competent watchful eyes. In a word; I need even more focus.

As with my Columbia, MO Pistol Class experience; outside factors on my mind -heat, hunger, thirst, footing/terrain, clothing, on-going conversation, thoughts, home life... while distractions in every day life, how do they help me win a gunfight? Not one bit, is the answer, as far as I can tell. Front sight clear, press the trigger to the rear. Offset, reset. *This is just from this flat-range-only training guido's POV. But the more I can shut everything else out in that one moment, and handle my business -fluidly and competently- the better off I am.

-My ammo sucks! Malfunctions abound. *So what? Right now; tap/rack/roll, dot is clear, press the trigger to the rear.
-This Kino feels kinda different than the 14.5"... and OOoooo!, this D-BAL is cool and -*SMACK!* HEAD IN THE GAME! DOT CLEAR; PRESS THE TRIGGER AND KILL THAT &!@#^#$&*#%!!!.
-Pat just shwacked that tent-caterpillar bag hanging from the burm... 25 meters elevated, 20 meters away... and then gave it the finger. Awesome. Red-dot clear, press the trigger to the rear.

The mind... is my enemy.

What I've learned most is how vast the amount I have available to me to yet learn.

Pat & Mike; thanks for letting me have seconds and even thirds at the Learning Occurs Buffet. Mindset, mindset, mindset. I over-think -but am finding that with more awareness and consciousness of mindset, Mindset will "fly the airplane".

Pat; "Front sight, clear; press the trigger to the rear" -I got that from you. This, I call the "moment of truth", and I am grateful for all parties involved, but in particular you, for helping me sharpen my focus on this.

56823; "Just don't get ahead of me." Big Grin *Thanks for profoundly impacting -and expanding- my SA. Please let "Mrs. Cornbread" know she's more than welcome on here.

cpdsniper; "YOU PROMISED YOU'D CALL!!!!" I look forward to being down there in the gravel with you guys again soon.

Being on the recieving end of the EAG INFO DUMP , 1 EA. was worth the trip. Shooting with -and next to- you guys, along with Alan H. and Josh "Mongo" ("MONGO HUNGRY!!!"), was BONUS. Having both together, along with being welcomed with extraordinary hospitality, and a host, who along with the range co-ordinator, are extremely switched-on and aggressive about learning anything and everything to be ahead of the power-curve and win the fight ---is just phenomenal. The peer pressure to excel, learn, and push one's personal drive to exceed previous level of skill was off the charts.

MattE. can shoot. Don't let him fool you. Oh sure; he's all jokes and yucks, and then just shoots like a straight growed-up man.

Haji has heart. That's all I can say; when I think of him, in spite any number of imjuries or temporary impairments that would fell lesser individuals with weak constitutions, Haji trucks on and does what he has to, as best he possibly can. Heart.

CarolB = awesome.

If you are in TN -or Missouri, or Mississippi, or can just flat get to TN by any means necessary; get to this class. Train with these LEOs. You'll be better for it.
------------------------------

"Its not about shooting, its about fighting with a gun." -Pat Rogers


The answer to 1984 is 1776.

"I prefer evil sits in daylight for all to see rather than be hidden, forgotten about and possibly repeated." -Consigliere
quote:
Don't eat stinky taint jerky.

Steamy taint jerky. That's some fall off the chair late in day three comedy there.

Those of us who know must save those that don't from those that think they do.

"If you count 'three', mister, you'll never hear the man count 'ten'".-John Wayne as Sean Thornton in The Quiet Man

My anger will be aroused, and I will kill you with the sword; your wives will become widows and your children fatherless.-Exodus 22:24

quote:
Originally posted by cpdsniper:
This was my first class with Pat and will have to say everything I heard was true. I had very high expectations for the class due to Pat's reputation. I was not disappointed. Mike was also an added asset to the class and learned alot from him also.

Like 56823 it was nice to put faces to the screen names. Look forward to this fall.

Duke always remember "you should never put things up there".

It was great to have such accomplished shooters in the class.


Thanks for the kind words Brother, and also for the use of the range.
Top shelf....
Ya know? It dont really get much better than this class. I would have posted last night but I was ummm.... otherwise occupied. Big Grin

Pat and Mike did an outstanding job of making sure "Learning Occurred." No matter what your experience level was when you arrived, when you left you were better. Thats harder than it sounds sometimes because a lot of instructors dont have the attention and depth of knowledge to actually improve the guys on the line that are doing pretty well. This was my first EAG class but it will most certainly not be my last. Any time you get the opportunity to train under an instructor the caliber of Pat Rogers you are cheating yourself if you do not take full advantage of it.

Guys in the Class,

A good portion of what makes a good class great is the students who are on your left and right. Besides all of the great stories and camaraderie, having guys that you respect and push your abilities on the line is a huge plus. This class was full of VERY capable shooters who carry a gun for a living.

I am sure I will miss a few cause I suck at names but a few were.......

Jeff D.- Outstanding job of hosting the class Brother. When ever you can break away from issuing citations for lawn care violations we need to get together and put some rounds down range. Seriously, Dude can run a rifle!

Vince- Dude wont ever make a decent ballerina but you wouldnt want him coming through a door after you for damn sure. Hard man too, wore full kit the entire class.

Brentley- Really? is that a guys name? I guess if you are a bad ass you can get away with that shit.

Josh- Shot beside Josh the entire class. He was pretty fair, except for shooting MY target in the balls to try and fuck with me. Remember Bro, Low Carbs and Rogain. It will help, really it will.

Simba 5- Dude, it was a pleasure and I really appreciate the "classes" on your stuff. You can damn sure run a gun!

Ken- If I am as hard as you are when I get to be as old as you are I will be one very happy camper. Perfect example of never judging a book by its cover.

Scott- Really? Iron Sights? I would hate to see what you can do with a red dot. Holy fuck!

TNYankee- Good meeting you man. Holla when you get out this way again.

Duke- Great meeting you Bro! I will get that stuff out to you this week.

Haji- Dude, it was only 5! I will be making a trip up to the store soon.


I really cant say enough about Pat Rogers and wouldnt even know where to begin. Suffice to say, there is truth in advertising. It was an Honor and a Privilege to train with him and I am eagerly looking forward to the next class.

The world is a dangerous place to live, not because of the people who are evil, but because of the people who don't do anything about it. - Albert Einstein

 

"It it is simple....the job, and the system hate you, and you only have you and your fellow officers.......and MANY of them are questionable." - Nyeti

 

Bill Toy

Director of Training / Owner

OTG Tactical

www.OTG-Tactical.com

https://www.facebook.com/otgtactical/

 

I've had more then a few classes with EAG. Even though the POI remains roughly the same, the class is always different. This one was no exception. From the first shots fired, looking up and down the line (we all do it, you know, sniffing butts) shot groups were tighter and faster. This was disconcerting to say the least. I had Haji on one side, and a Cop, who I'll refer only as "Straight Man" on the other. Right off the bat, I was behind the power curve.
This class was full of Cops who could flat shoot. I mean ALL OF THEM. Wins and losses were in most cases, separated by one round and one second. A few times before, I have seen much more distance between the top shooters in the class, and the bottom shooters.
It was a good thing. It kept shooters dialed in. The silent (and sometimes not so silent) competitions between shooters kept guys on point and "in the bubble" as Pat would say. For me, that is a love/hate relation ship. I hate the stress of trying to keep up with the guy beside you, but I love how it pushes you as an individual.
As always, after the initial butt sniffing of day .5, the shenanigans begin. This class was no different. I fully understand that if you leave Jerky on your front seat, it gets hot and smells like taint, I'm tracking that there are guys that remember every line from Viet Nam war movies, and that it can be difficult to find your wallet if it is Multicam.
EAG classes are always a very strange combo of "the most fun you'll ever have" and "the hardest work".
This is why I keep coming, and why I'll continue to as long as Pat and Mike will have me.

Training/Kit issues-
o The Mayflower chest rig is the "semi-official" load carrying rig of myself and work mates. It is VERY light, sits High and close and holds your essentials securely. There is almost no need to apply the bungies to keep your mags in unless you are planning on stepping out of an aircraft while in flight or being swung around by a giant squid that is holding you by the heal.
I recently started to use a mag on the belt as my primary "hot" mag. This works very well and is fast and repeatable. However, there were times when I grabbed my outside pistol mag first by mistake on the Modified Navy. Pat, in a very professional manner, reminded me that no matter how hard I push/pull, I will not be able to fit my Glock Mag into the mag well of my carbine. Although it never got to that point, two times I ended up with a pistol mag on the "deck" (I think it is so cute when guys call the ground "the deck". It's like calling a vacuum cleaner "a helicopter") at the end of the drill. I'll keep working it.

o I ran a Colt 6920 with a GI 14.5 barrel with a SureFire FH556-212A and a DD M4A1 RIS II. (I like this set up so much that I now have a duplicate made by BCM!) As always in class and when I was in the service, the Colt ran as advertised. Not to get side tracked, where does the Internet get all the "the M4/M16 FOW is un-reliable"? Some day, someone is going to have to help me out with that one. Pure BS started by inexperience, untrained and benighted mockers. I've recently started running the Eotech XPS sight. I am fast becoming a fan. Although I am not a good enough shooter to take advantage of the 1 moa dot, I DO believe it made some of the close range drills, to include "brain" shots while moving, easier. The T1 is still my preferred optic, but I'd lose no sleep with this Eo.

o I changed *back* to the SOPMOD LMT stock for day two and on. (long story) I noticed an increase in being able to control the gun in recoil. I could chalk that up as subjective, but in this case, the target and timer doesn't lie. It seems to make the gun less front heavy for me and kinda balances it. I'll keep it on...for now.

o M4Guru's off set scout light mount will remain on my carbine (and not just because I can't get it off) It's good kit.

o Pistol was the G19. Pat told me it was the best combat pistol on the planet, and who am I to argue...

It was great shooting with all the guys/gals mentioned above. It was great to shoot with guys that won't accept "OK".
Haji not only survived, but did well. Good on ya my Brother!!
A big goes out to "Straight man". He quietly pushed me the whole time. Just when I thought I shot well, he'd smoke me in place. It meant I had to shoot that much better next time. Which, of course, made him do the same and so on. Good shooting with you, Bro!
Thanks to Larue, BCM, ATS and Magpul for the Kit. These are top shelf companies that know what the end user needs and wants.
Thanks again, Pat. It was great being under your hawk like gaze. Continue to not miss anything. I'll see you again soon. I gotta get a pistol class some time.

Last, but VERY MUCH not least, Brother Mike. Mike is always mentioned last on the marque. However, his contribution to these classes is immeasurable. He acts like a grump, but is always there with a sideways smirk ("Matt, why did you do that?") with words of guidance and mentorship. Mike is very much the NCOIC of EAG.
This is Bil M. I haven't posted on this board in probably six or seven years, but I was in the class and wanted to say hello to Simba 5, TN Yankee, Haji, "Straight Man" (That's your new screen name, lol), Duke, Pat, Mike and the others so that you could put a screen name with a face.

The class was good. It was nice to get out and run the carbine hard. Even if my job description no longer requires cool guy feats of strength, it is good to get out on the line and see how all the gear works and find out what is new and useful. I don't do this fer' a livin' anymore, but I need to stay current so I can watch over those who do. Pat, Mike, and the students in the class provided plenty of data on the current state of all things carbine.

It was also good to run through all the carbine skills left handed (necessitated by my right eye going south a few years ago)and still hang with the pack. My groups came and went as I dealt with the doing thing wrong handed, but the repetitions did start to pay off around day two. It's still inconsistent (going from a 9 to a 4 on two different runs of the same part of the MUESOC) but I think I'm rounding the bend on shooting left handed. My wrong handed manipulations seemed to be causing more double feeds than clearing them on day one when we practiced stoppage clearance, but I somehow cleared a real one unconsciously (and left handed) on day two. Training does pay off.

I haven't trained with Pat since 1999, and the return was enjoyable and beneficial. A good time was had and things were learned. That's what I paid for and what I got.

Kudos to Simba 5, Duke, Haji, and my homeboys TNYankee and "Straight Man" for both the serious and entertaining conversations had behind the line between relays. I knew my vast knowledge of "The Wire" and 80's Viet Nam film trivia would finally pay off somewhere.

The MultiCam wallet may already be available in stores, but no one seems to be able to find them.

Bil
quote:
Originally posted by GrayBDUs:
I knew my vast knowledge of "The Wire" and 80's Viet Nam film trivia would finally pay off somewhere.


You up? WMD!



Great shooting with you, Bill.

Matt E.; it was a privilege to watch and interact your relay as a whole. Thanks for your time and conversation.

Kit comments:

I'd like to echo the comment about the Mayflower rig; 500D is not anemic in any way. I laid on some gravel that was out for human blood. The 500D -while dusty, gunky with dirty Slip-Sauce, and somewhat oderous - is none the worse for wear. At all. I'd recommend it without hesitation.

The Blue-Force Gear SOC-C belt/suspender combo is lightweight -but also not anemic in anyway. My 3rd class using it, it has not shown signs of wear, failure, loss of "ride" i.e., staying put.

My Glock 17 with Warren-Sevigny fiber-optic front-sight/plain rear... If you use a RDO, specifically an Aimpoint, I personally found that the red-front sight partners exceptionally with the dot of an RDO. A commonality exists, is all I am saying; red circle (small), red dot (small). Food for thought.

Also; the 14.5 BCM Mid-length IS, in fact, a laser. The 12.5" Kino ---is an aggressive and blisteringly accurate configuration as well. Both I would happily and enthusiastically use at a moment's notice.
------------------------------

"Its not about shooting, its about fighting with a gun." -Pat Rogers


The answer to 1984 is 1776.

"I prefer evil sits in daylight for all to see rather than be hidden, forgotten about and possibly repeated." -Consigliere
It was funny. We'd be all laughing at something Vince said, and then I'd see your target after a string... and the fight was on. Big Grin

Your target's brain-box area would look like it had been poked with a 3-prong power cord from a vacuum cleaner, and then it was no-more-Mr.-nice-line-neighbor.

Again, thanks for pushing me.
------------------------------

"Its not about shooting, its about fighting with a gun." -Pat Rogers


The answer to 1984 is 1776.

"I prefer evil sits in daylight for all to see rather than be hidden, forgotten about and possibly repeated." -Consigliere
I'm writing up some stuff on my blog right now that overlaps with what I'm gonna post here, and my thoughts aren't as organized as I'd like. I hope I can get thoughts out in some kind of coherent way. Here goes:

The class is listed as moderate activity level. One must be honest with oneself to get the most out of training. I'm a fat old guy now, and as we got into the second day, the soreness of my quads, (and later my lower back to a lesser extent) limited my flexibility to the point that, while I could get to the kneeling and prone, getting back up became...an adventure. My lack of conditioning impacted what I was able to do in this class. The plus side of that is that I'm more determined to get into a different shape than my current gorilla-ish figure. Being fat won't stop you in this class as much as lacking core and leg strength will. There were some big boys in this class that did it all. Don't go mess around where these guys patrol; they'll tear your freakin' heart out and show it to ya before ya die. Hard shootin' Cops in this class!

On day two, the heat coupled with my lessening physical ability, Mike made me sit out a relay, with specific instructions to take off all my gear and get sat down. I only sat out that one relay, but it made the difference in getting through the class. Mike is not only a knowledgeable instructor, not only a great straight man for Pat's jokes (I think he's heard most of 'em before), but also a very observant guy. He misses nothing.

Gear: I took a not-yet-in-production 500D ATS Low Profile Chest Harness. This thing was made for this type of class. The range was mostly grass, except my lane, which looked like a concrete highway. The grass had been removed there, so I was on packed dirt. All I managed to do was get it dusty in the times I was able to go prone. Couldn't really hurt it. The weight savings was substantial.

I also brought a prototype of the ATS hydration carrier. Also money. They'll be in production soon, and I'm excited about this product. I know, that's weird to get hyped about a hydro carrier, but 500D for that situation is awesome. It weighs diddly squat, and is a low profile design. Pics will be forthcoming when the final production versions are done.

In order to make dropping gear easier, I ran an ATS War Belt with suspenders with an ATS Insert Belt, Safariland ALS with the UBL and MLS hook and plate, a 500D ATS Roll Up Dump Pouch (these are in stock), ATS Double Pistol magazine pouch (moved to the front of the Lo Pro harness on day two to stop my sling hanging up on it) and a Safariland M77 single M4 magazine pouch on an MLS hook. The Safariland pouch made a GREAT speed pouch. Its secure without having too much tension to remove or insert the mag. I could have run this stuff on the belt (Safariland makes belt clips and the new ELS system for their accessories), but the War Belt just made it all easier for me overall. I didn't really take advantage of all it can do, but I liked it a lot for what I was doing.

Some people like a stiffer rigger's belt for use with the War Belt, but the insert belt didn't sag at all with the weight of the pistol with light on it.

There were some issues with stoppages (Malfunction Three Times!) in this class, but my rifle didn't bobble even a little. Honestly, I would not have been surprised if it had. The lower is an original LFT-15 group buy lower, and the upper and BCG came from a Bushamster V-Match. The parts kit is DPMS. I think the difference, though, is that lower was assembled by a Colt-certified armorer, and the upper was assembled by Daniel Defense, using a DD barrel and their 9.5 FSP rail. I used PMC 55 grain FMJ, which worked just fine for me. The only stoppages were induced, during the "Say 'Malfunction Three Times', Dorsai" drills.

I used the Safariland ALS holster, using my MnP with X300. I have the same model holster for my G17 that was also there, but I don't get slide bitten by the MnP, so that's what I ran. No issues at all. Ammo was WWB 115 gr. 9mm FMJ.

the origin of the new title: On the timed, individual run of the MNQ, I didn't pay enough attention to where the loaded mags were, and pulled the empty reload mag rather than the one that had five rounds in it. Mike saw it and said "keep going, I'll give you a mag", so I went through the rest of the drill, taking most of the rest of the day to finish because I didn't watch what I was doing when I was arranging my mags. Hence, a new title. True to my word, I changed it rather than Pat going to M4G or McGrubbs to do it.

Kicking an ammo can and either cracking or deeply bruising my third toe on my right foot the day before the class did not help, contrary to popular opinion. I don't recommend getting injured before you even get there. It just makes learning harder.

Too many people to thank for their camaraderie, comedy, straight faces, and insight. I learned as much from you all as I did from the POI. Thank you all!

Those of us who know must save those that don't from those that think they do.

"If you count 'three', mister, you'll never hear the man count 'ten'".-John Wayne as Sean Thornton in The Quiet Man

My anger will be aroused, and I will kill you with the sword; your wives will become widows and your children fatherless.-Exodus 22:24

Just off the range and dining at Sam Hills.

This class was another one of the truly memorable ones guys, and it was because of the synergy of you guys.

That all hands were involved from before the waivers were completed to the fact that the butt sniffing had been conducted weeks before made pecking orders and target assignments interesting.

I got to shoot some in this class, and it was semi difficult to keep up with most of you.

The class turned relays quickly, had all the ducks in a row and shot reallllly well.

I was impressed. Sorta'.....

I'll add more after some hot tub /Bailey's therapy....
Big Grin
quote:
Originally posted by carolb:
Grace is not my middle name. My greatest concerns were 1 - keep the muzzle downrange, and 2 - don't re-injure the foot. Good on both; what more could I ask for.

Thank you, Pat and Mike for another great class. Thanks also to Jeff Dooley (56823) for hosting, and Vince Morgan, Columbia PD,(CPDsniper) for the range.


Hey Carol- a new karma title!!!
quote:
I ran a Colt 6920 with a GI 14.5 barrel with a SureFire FH556-212A and a DD M4A1 RIS II. (I like this set up so much that I now have a duplicate made by BCM!) As always in class and when I was in the service, the Colt ran as advertised. Not to get side tracked, where does the Internet get all the "the M4/M16 FOW is un-reliable"? Some day, someone is going to have to help me out with that one. Pure BS started by inexperience, untrained and benighted mockers.

================================================

Roger that First Sergeant! Between the M16 not being reliable and 5.56x45mm not being efficient, i am shocked i tell you shocked that the US has continued to kill enemies of our country by the hundreds of thousands since 1963.
How can we reconcile the facts with the myths???



================================================

"I've recently started running the Eotech XPS sight. I am fast becoming a fan. Although I am not a good enough shooter to take advantage of the 1 moa dot, I DO believe it made some of the close range drills, to include "brain" shots while moving, easier. The T1 is still my preferred optic, but I'd lose no sleep with this Eo."
================================================

Excellent! We have seen 6 of them in classes so far.

DZ called from his mil class. His XPS lasted twelve (12) rds.

Of course, DZ is the typhoid mary of the gun world so that would have to factor into it

quote:
quote:
Hey Carol- a new karma title!!!



How fitting!!!!!!



Thank you!

Between the SCAR-L and #31, I'm still wearing a lot of grease and gunk. That, and I am a bit of a dirty girl anyway...
GRAVITY - It's not just a good idea. It's the law.
Ok my gear list was:

1. Noveske 12.5" SBR with Aimpoint comp M3, surefire G2 with M4guru's mount. I had no issues until mounting my AAC M4-2000 can which caused some problems cycling the rifle after approx. 175-200 rds. Frown (anyone interested in a suppressor???)

2. secondary weapon, Glock 34 with surefire X200 in a raven concealment holster. holster was brand new and the first day I ran it. I had issues reholstering. Of course Pat's eyes caught it and quickly made sure to tell me that he noticed it. Smile

3. I ran an ATS chest rig, can't remember which model cause it was a loner. Like Matt E I run a side mag holder for quick access. I had some issues remembering I had 4 other mags on my chest when reloading during the MNQ because I haven't used a chest rig much. You know cause if I wore that on duty, I would be to intimidating for the general public.... Mad

4. Ammo was PMC 55 grain FMJ, I did not have any issues with this ammo. Duke I think you must have gotten a bad lot with the problems you had. Mags were PMags and some loaned ARC mags. Damn it Pat, like I need more shit to buy. Thanks for letting me use them so I have to spend more money!!! Really, they are some good mags.... no issues at all.

All in all my gear had no issues, I would not change the placement of anything, just more reps on loading from the chest!!

With all the different gear at class, I noticed several items that I will add to my growing collection.

If anyone is interested in the gear whore support group, please contact Vince or I for the weekly meeting!!!

And as I stated above, thanks again, to everyone for making this a great class.
Weapons Used:

Primary:
POF-USA lower with Vltor upper, Noveske 12.5 bbl, LaRue 10"rail, BCM bolt and carrier, Vltor EMOD stock, MagPul MIAD grip, Rock River 2-stage with KNS Anti Rotation pins, MagPul MBUS sights, Aimpoint M3 with LaRue LT-129 mount, Tango Down battle grip, and Blue Force VCAS sling, Surefire MB556K muzzle brake (sorry Alan and Carol) Used HK and GI magazines. Surefire G3 with Viking Tactical mount.

Secondary:
HK USP 45 (duty carry)
UTL

Ammo:
Fiochhi 55gr 223
Federal 230 gr .45

Gear:
Eagle LE Plate Carrier with:
3 Tactical Tailor AR10 Magazine pouches
Maxpedition Dump Pouch
Maxpedition Milspec Monkey Admin Pouch
Hydration Carrier
Blue Force Gear Trauma NOW pouch
Paraclete Mid Utility pouch
TAG Gear Triple pistol mag pouch

Blue Force Gear War Belt with suppenders:
Two ATS shorty AR pouches
TAG gear double mag pouch
ATS dump pouch
Safariland 6004 holster

Weapon and gear critique:
Had trouble day TD1 with GI mags, shit canned three of them during the mag stuff that evening. Aimpoint seemed to shift high right for some reason at the beginning of TD2 and had to make some adjustments. Checked mounts that afternoon everything tight, who knows?? TD1 went to put UTL on USP and it came apart from the latch, first time I have seen that. Mad I forgot HK shit never breaks TD3 put Surefire 556K suppressor on after about 100-150 rds started getting frequent malfuntions, took it off and the weapon ran fine after that. Had to use HK and GI mags due to the fact the POF will not accept PMAGS Mad. I did find out that it will accept ARC mags, now I have to buy a metric shit ton of them, thanks Pat, I was running out of shit to buy.

When I put my plate carrier together several years ago I decided to use AR10 mag pouches so I would not have to change out if for some reason I grabbed my AR10. I have always had to be careful about going prone because it would dump AR15 mags. I have decided to start the search for some multicam molle AR15 mag pouches with kydex inserts, any suggestions would be helpful. I liked Josh's ICE pouches but not sure about the company. The ATS shorty AR15 pouches was hard to get mags in it on the war belt one handed. I will be getting an ATS Low Pro Chest Rig to run in carbine classes

LEARNING OCCURED:
Mags are a disposable item
When you are in a class of accomplished shooters and warriors put your big girl panties on!!!
You can learn alot during relays and "social gatherings"
Had to leave during second half of TD2 for a department meeting Mad Mad Mad
When Pat yells at you for fucking up it like your wife asking "What were you thinking?", there is no good answer. Just say I am a fucking functional idiot and drive on.
When teaching a group of 40 boy scouts rifle marksmanship after completing a EAG Course you might want to either take off or turn around your "DON'T FUCK UP" braclet. When you ask if there are any questions it is a bit awkward when one of them raises his hand and ask "Sgt. Morgan what does don't fuck up mean?" Confused

Duke: I will call, I promise

"A teacher is never the giver of truth -- he is a guide, a pointer to the truth that each student must find for himself.  A good teacher is merely a catalyst."  Bruce Lee

quote:
"Sgt. Morgan what does don't fuck up mean?"


"It's when you fuck up that you will hear from your peers, not when you are doing your job. We expect people to do their jobs, and don't praise them like six year olds who successfully tied their shoes when they do. " - Fatty

 

If in doubt about the tone of my post, please refer to avatar.

quote:
I did find out that it will accept ARC mags, now I have to buy a metric shit ton of them, thanks Pat, I was running out of shit to buy.

================================================

"Mags were PMags and some loaned ARC mags. Damn it Pat, like I need more shit to buy. Thanks for letting me use them so I have to spend more money!!! Really, they are some good mags.... no issues at all. "

================================================

I serve to please....

And don't forget to mention that your lovely and hard shooting wife shitcanned her eoturd and bought a T1/ Larue Mount


Oh yeah, that's right. You did drive out with the checkbook....


One of the many good things is that you do have an opportunity to see what does/ doesn't work.
quote:
When I put my plate carrier together several years ago I decided to use AR10 mag pouches so I would not have to change out if for some reason I grabbed my AR10. I have always had to be careful about going prone because it would dump AR15 mags. I have decided to start the search for some multicam molle AR15 mag pouches with kydex inserts, any suggestions would be helpful. I liked Josh's ICE pouches but not sure about the company. The ATS shorty AR15 pouches was hard to get mags in it on the war belt one handed. I will be getting an ATS Low Pro Chest Rig to run in carbine classes

HSGI TACO pouches bro. Been running them for a few months now and they are very much good to go so far with the added benefit of accepting AK/AR10/FAL mags as well.

"Stay angry my friends"-the most dangerous man in the world.

 

"All hat, not much cowboy" Big Sky Brewing Co.

 

" I am Godzilla, YOU are Japan" -Critical Bill

By the way;

---someone ask me when you transition to your blaster.

Quick. Someone ask me.
------------------------------

"Its not about shooting, its about fighting with a gun." -Pat Rogers


The answer to 1984 is 1776.

"I prefer evil sits in daylight for all to see rather than be hidden, forgotten about and possibly repeated." -Consigliere
OH! Glad you asked, Jeff!

Why, that would be inside of 15yds., when you run dry or have a malfunction! Now, I know you're stunned by this; but apparently working the charging handle at 2.85 yds and glancing down with ire at your (loaner) 14.5" BCM Middy that is being interfered with from running perfectly by troublesome ammo ... while the lens of a digital camera is mere inches from you... may not be the most optimal remedial plan of action.

Heavy, right? Yes. One should draw one's eager-to-please-and-deliver-Good-News Glock 17 and press the trigger happily, delivering a Failure Drill to Dirty Muhj in front of your front sight.

Big Grin

------------------------------

"Its not about shooting, its about fighting with a gun." -Pat Rogers


The answer to 1984 is 1776.

"I prefer evil sits in daylight for all to see rather than be hidden, forgotten about and possibly repeated." -Consigliere
More to the point...

TO SAVE YOUR FUCKING LIFE.....

It does not include looking at your non functioning rifle, or dumping the empty magazine from your non functioning rifle.
Nor does it include freezing in place, nor does it include your yelling "Malfunction three times" when you should be shooting the one working gun on your body.

I dunno. Seems pretty simple to me....

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