AAR EAG CQB Operations, Alliance, OH 16-18 October 2013

We conducted the first itteration of this course under the EAG banner in Alliance Ohio, under skies alternately sunny and raning.


As usual, I think the amazing group of people who participated in the course received an appreciation for angles and shapes, and how they can reach out and bite the inattentive in the ass.  Violence will happen around every angle, expect it, and cover your team mate's back when they are exposing themselves.  Also, take care of your own work and trust your mates to take care of theirs.  The other big lesson learned I saw for the millionth time was to turn off your ego, superman.  The mission doesn't give a shit if you're uncomfortable or embarassed.  Want to feel good about yourself?  Give your all to the mission and do your damn job. 


One instructor could not teach this course with any effecitveness, and I was honored to have the help of probably the best instructional team on earth, Pat Rogers, Doc Spears and Yeti.  Also special thanks to Joe and Chris for giving the students the bees with some lessons mixed in; and to Mike and the Alliance crew for yet another course made possible by their hard work and professionalism.


I look forward to hearing the take-a-ways from the students.




Cops help cops.  Period.

Original Post

As I mentioned in the cqb/cls thread, the Kenosha Kid and I traveled from the SF Bay Area for this course and CQB/CLS. Again, I'd like to thank Joe and Mike for doing what they do and running such a fine facility. For this course, big thanks go to Joe and Chris for role playing for us and voluntarily getting shot with UTMs. Although I think they enjoyed shooting us so much they really didn't mind getting shot, lol.


Background: I am a high speed, low drag software engineer by day, otherwise known as a general earth person, but I've been training seriously for the past four years. I've trained with Pat previously when he came through LMS's facility in Fernley a couple years ago and I've trained with Chappy more times than I will admit, including cqb, fof, and shoothouse classes.


Gear: I ran my pws mk114 mod0 with T1 with a UTM bolt and extra BCM mod4 charging handle, along with a battle belt, a BFG LMAC plate carrier, and Crye airframe helmet. No gear issues at all, and I'll say that the LMAC is the most comfortable PC I've run yet, and the only one I can run without any shoulder strap pads at all. Love that thing. Again, this class ran smooth as butter from what I could see because just about everyone had their gear dialed in. One extra note - we ran some scenarios in an old heavy equipment machine warehouse which gave me extra appreciation for keeping a tight gear profile and not having crap hanging off my body everywhere. It was very easy to get hung up or snagged on that equipment as we cleared it - often with fogged up goggles and limited visibility.


Lessons: The cqb/cls course runs the four days prior and I highly recommend taking that as a prereq. After getting a solid tune-up on cqb fundamentals in 2 person teams, this class continues on with more complicated scenarios in 4, 6, and full 13 person teams. One thing about force-on-force, if not careful it can quickly devolve into a shooting gallery, but in these courses each run is a carefully planned scenario with role players with very explicit instructions. Chappy very carefully briefs the role players on every run as to the objectives of the run, where to target participants, how much/when to shoot, etc. This makes every run productive and educational. The nice thing about UTMs is if you don't get the lesson right, you get some pain inflicted. I don't do this for a living, but what a fantastic training tool to be able to learn and make mistakes, get some feedback to really make you remember the lesson, and all in a controlled environment. 


Some specifics that were stressed:

  • Communication is even more critical with larger teams, and we introduced the notion of Team Leaders and ATLs for this class.
  • Find something that isn't being covered and cover it, and if you are covering it, don't stop covering it just because another team mate might be taking fire
  • Look near and far and in between. The factory really forces you to scan and see, not just look around.
  • Again, every step you take changes your angles, both what you can see, and what can see you. Our venue became much more difficult in this class using an old heavy equipment factory.
  • Cover your team mates and trust your team mates to cover you
  • Never process a Bad Guy by yourself

This class also makes extensive use of night time shooting and low-light engagements, this time complete with real adversaries. If you think static reaction targets are interesting in the dark, real people are even more interesting.


The highlight of the class was an explosive breach and clear on a seized house in Alliance with the full 13 person squad - at night. I got to be the #2 person through the door (or over it, because it was blown clean off its hinges) behind one of the APD team members and I think I'm still grinning from it.


Instructors: Again, Chappy, Pat, Doc Spears, and Steve Fisher all helped make this class incredible. Also, having dedicated role players that are briefed and carefully act in order to teach the proper lesson on each scenario really makes this FOF course something special.


Classmates: A good number of the APD swat team joined us for this class and I want to especially thank those guys for their professionalism and taking in regular earth people like myself and making us feel like members of the team. I learned a great deal by making runs with those guys and making the explosive breach on the house in Alliance was almost too much fun.


I think that about covers it. On the last day I managed to take a UTM to the face, just below my lower lip that made things interesting (through my balaclava). I didn't think much of it but the looks on everyone else's face were pretty awesome. I'm sure Pat will post a picture of the result. 

- Mark

EAG Tactical CQB Operations:


Wx:  Went from good to suck quickly and back again.


Background:  I’m a sworn officer with Alliance PD and been on the team since 2005.


Equipment:  11.5 inch barrel Bushmaster (that’s right, I should mention it is an issued rifle), M2 Aimpoint, and an EAG Fury.  I can’t complain though, the rifle worked flawlessly.  Armor carrier is an Eagle Ciras (land version) and it is covered in required equipment.  Nothing fancy helmet other than it is high cut.


Class:  Nothing reinforces your TTP’s better than going up against a guy that can shoot back.  And it is definitely a humbling experience to go against the Yeti and Joe Weyer.  Give them an opportunity and they got you!  We also learned some new things to incorporate in our TTP’s that we currently use. 


Cone drills, cone drills, cone drills!!!   Cone drills are invaluable.  They allow you to practice anywhere and allow you to see mistakes quickly.  Covering your area of responsibility is huge!!!!  Just because shooting occurs somewhere doesn’t mean that you look that way ignoring your responsibility.  That was used several times by OPFOR to sucker us and it worked.  Took some time, but after you feel the pain a bit, you learn to focus on your task.  


The instructor Cadre is absolutely the best.  Chappy, Doc, Pat, and the large mammal!  I just can’t say enough good things.  It was a pleasure to be there.  Learning occurred at every corner.  After each run in the house, factory after people, or wherever we were, the team leaders for that run gave an AAR.  This included what went well and what didn’t.  Even if the run went well, there was always something that could be improved upon. 


An important part of this class is the need for team leaders.  As we went from 4 man teams to everyone, the need for a team leader and up to 2 assistants was introduced.  The job was handed out and everyone got a turn.  Not exactly my favorite part, but you do it, good or bad.  This also teaches you that you must trust your team.  Sometimes the guy in front has a better picture of the battle space than you and you need to shut up and let him formulate a plan to tackle the problem that lies ahead.  CQB involves angles, sometimes being 10 feet back means you can’t see shit in a house and you have to let someone else get things done.


It was very impressive to see in two days that we took a group of people that never worked together and conducted a hit on a house utilizing everyone.  We also incorporated an explosive breach.  Doc Jones and I did the breach and the hit went very well.  This caught on and Doc and I built a charge for the next class.


I’m sure I’m forgetting something here, but this class was great.  Can’t wait for the next class in the coming year.

"Seriously, a nutless monkey could do your job!" Les Grossman

First and foremost I would like to say thanks to the Alliance Police department and all the guys who run such a top notch training facility. The effort, time, and dedication that these guys put in to make this such a great place for learning truly shows.   I would also like to thank LMS for offering these classes to civilians. 


Background:  I am a Firefighter Paramedic for a small city just out side of Orlando FL.  I am an avid shooter and have been taking classes and training for several years.  I have family in the police and military and I hope to one day get my LE and be dual certified.


Gear:    I ran a Spikes tactical dressed up with as many BCM parts as they have to offer. Aimpoint PRO and a Surefire TRL1. Battle belt and some soft armor to keep the bees at bay.  Zero issues running the UTMs. Only gear lesson that I learned is you can never have enough light. I was seriously lacking with my older outdated light and it showed as soon as the sun went down. Luckily someone was kind enough to loan me a Furry 500 and it was a game changer.


Lessions:    BlackViper has really done a good job of covering them but I will chime in also. It was a little over two years since I had last done my shoot house course and boy o boy did it show.  These skills are easily lost, The saying of "If you don't use it, you lose it." Spot on.  I would also recommend taking EAG shoot house course prior to CQB.  UTMs offer the best training because it has a painful response for incorrect actions. If you follow the skill set and perform your duties correctly you will win every time. Cover your area of responsibility and look for work. Expect a threat around every corner. If you give these role players an inch they will take a mile.


Instructors:  Chappy, Pat, Doc spears, Yeti.  Great group of guys who have the gift of teaching.  By far the best training experience I have had yet.


Classmates: Mix of seasoned Swat and military and your average everyday guys.  Everyone played nice and worked well together.  My apologies to who ever caught a round or two from my mistakes. 


I look forward to training with these guys in the future. Get off the square range and out of your comfort zone. Punching holes in paper at 7 yards is easy.


“Get off the square range and out of your comfort zone. Punching holes in paper at 7 yards is easy.”


Great AAR and great job.


It may seem paradoxical to some that the live-fire shoothouse course is a prerequisite to CQB Operations with UTM, but there is an important progression of skills that requires this sequence of training.


The Shoothouse is the next evolution after demonstrating competence on the square range. Learning the basics of shooting safely with a partner, basic tactics, movement, and problem solving serve as the basis for further development. It emphasizes TTPs that keep the maximum number of guns in the fight at all times and demands precise shooting to end a threat. If you live or work in a structure you need this training (does that mean everyone? Yes!) It then prepares you for the next step in your training.


CQB Operations further expands upon these skills and principles by teaching how to operate in larger elements. “Realism” is improved by having to deal with role players as OPFOR, rather than talking to a piece of plastic or a box through the instructor. The response you get from the OPFOR and what your response to the OPFOR’s actions will be largely depends on the correct execution of your tactics. It is likely the first time you will ever point a gun at another human being and press the trigger. How you respond here is how you will respond in real life. No one starts perfect, and lessons will be learned that will assure your progression. But you first must understand two man tactics and principles of safety working with a partner as it is the basis for your further development in CQB Ops.


The shoothouse and CQB Ops courses have things in common of course. It is not a game. It’s about problem solving and all operations are scenario based. There’s no, “run in the house and shoot everything as quickly as you can.” We see courses offered that demonstrate this kind of training offered as “CQB”. I have no ability to tell you what valuable skill that form of ballistic masturbation teaches a military or LEO operator.


If you’re looking for a paintball experience, please keep looking. If your goal is to learn how to reduce a threat as a tactical team, start getting your prerequisites done now.


Good job to all.



EAG conducted a CQB Operations Course at the Alliance OH PD Range Facility, 15-18Oct 2013.
This class immediately followed the EAG Shoothouse/CLS course at the same facility.

This was an OPEN class, but the majority of attendees were cops.
This was a Force on Force class only- there was no live fire Component in this class.

WX- it was cool and cold and rainy and cold and semi nice again.

Guns and Gear.

There were no gun issues with the UTM ammunition>
Punching the bbl before use, and lubricating the gun prior to use (and definitely at ENDEX) is required.

The UTM is a quantum leap ahead of Sims, and I am glad for it…
PPE is a major issue with any FOF.
My recommendation is that you should be wearing in FOF as you would wear in live fire SH, with addition of goggle, face and neck protection, hard gloves, and protection for sensitive man/ lady parts.
Getting hit on bare skin/ one layer of cloth will leave a welt, hole, bruising, and will make you wince, bleed and grumble.
Which is the penalty for getting shot.
Sorta almost like in real live, except the pain is not terminal…

The FOF requires that the student have attended the EAG COC course, and for obvious reasons- primarily because it sets the standard and makes the transition easier.
Attending both classes together has great benefit, but is not always possible.

If your training include watching you tube vids, James Bond or Die Hard movies or anything with the guinea gelding in it, please stay the fuck home.

This was originally Chappy’s course, but we are all one now, and we are looking forward to more.


A big thanks out to the OPFOR. Role players can make/ break the training, and if the scenario is not tightly scripted, it turns into a wannabe’s wet dream.

Those we had as RP were super motivated and followed instructions to a T. They also got the snot shot out of them…

Great times…!

Forgot to add that fresca is a wussy and did not wanna be in a position to get shot, i.e. hiding behind a door with no gun!!!!  That's okay, I got even the day we put him on the gound in the FAP!!!  

"Seriously, a nutless monkey could do your job!" Les Grossman

From the site with that facemask:


Intimidation Factor: The Skull mask is perfect for scaring the enemy to surrender.


Glad to see it worked!  Even without racking the slide on a 12 gauge.... 



Pat- Above you reference "pinching" the barrel and lubing prior to UTM use, can you explain the "pinching" for me? (Or is it typo/autocorrect?)





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