Also photos finally of Textron's entries: 

https://www.thefirearmblog.com...ons-ngsw-prototypes/

"Carbine" 

Is the lump something oddly mechanical, or a GL designed to shoot people's hands (and bipods) off? Or, stealing from comments in the article, is that the canister where they store the overmatch? 

LMG

I know all too well trade show people are all too often contract hires or marketing weenies, but the part where they are shown fully collapsed, no sights/lights/lasers etc. sure seems to track with the un-friendly size and shape of the guns generally. 

Amazing that this is one of the downselected entrants. 

Ammo not shown, but you can get the gist from the nutsack and feed port dimensions. 

The things that will destroy America are prosperity at any price, peace at any price, safety first instead of duty first, the love of soft living and the get rich quick theory of life. – Theodore Roosevelt

 

Joined: 19NOV2004   Location: Mission, Kansas

shoobe01 posted:

Also photos finally of Textron's entries: 

https://www.thefirearmblog.com...ons-ngsw-prototypes/

"Carbine" 

Is the lump something oddly mechanical, or a GL designed to shoot people's hands (and bipods) off? Or, stealing from comments in the article, is that the canister where they store the overmatch? 

LMG

I know all too well trade show people are all too often contract hires or marketing weenies, but the part where they are shown fully collapsed, no sights/lights/lasers etc. sure seems to track with the un-friendly size and shape of the guns generally. 

Amazing that this is one of the downselected entrants. 

Ammo not shown, but you can get the gist from the nutsack and feed port dimensions. 

Look on the table next to the pens. That's the ammo.

Why do these guns look like movie props? Like Star Wars or Firefly where they take a real gun, bolt some shit onto it to make it look "future-y" and add laser sounds in post production? These look like you took an AR and a SAW and uglied them up.

"Here I abandon peace and desecrate law. Farewell to treaties. Fortune it is you I follow... From now on, war will be my judge."

Because (aside from the rare innovative designer working outside of corporate constraint), these things are treated first as functional engineering challenges by teams of developers... rather than ergonomic packages to be carried by combatants.  The results are what happens when committees build an elephant. 

I seriously doubt that many of the designers ever humped a ruck and a rifle. Or were ever shot at. Not to mention that many of them actually grew up on the very movies where such outlandish  looking prop weaponry was the norm. To them, it "looks" right. They don't really grasp what's wrong with 2x4 profile, excessive bulk, and butt ugly lines.

It's apparently difficult to sculpt polymer into something both sleek and able to deliver battlefield durability. 

 

Re: The GL looking molding hanging from the bottom of the rifle... battery pack for optics? Or maybe just candy bar/Slim Jim storage?

 

 

 

 

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The moral high ground is sometimes just a head on a long pike... - Astronomy

 

A new Plt Ldr is like a first time new mother. The Plt Sgt is a lifelong midwife and nanny. It's your baby, but he knows a lot about changing diapers and other ugly things. - Astronomy

Astronomy posted:

...these things are treated first as functional engineering challenges by teams of developers rather than ergonomic packages to be carried by combatants humans...

Yup, and not just for gun. The rare project I am allowed to get on early enough to do the "ergonomic package" work much better. Engineers can work within the constraints, or we discuss how to step outside them, and do tradeoffs. (Yes, done some hardware systems; love to do a weapon program if anyone wants to chat about it!)

Since I do this practice area for a living, and write on it and so on: there's not too much value in having engineers with experience in the end user space. Humans are bad at analyzing, don't have all experiences, etc. etc. What you get is someone solving what they remember being their problems, from back in the day, which often are not generally true, are mis-remembered, and are not the current problem. Professional design (UX, HF, etc) can do this right with observation and heuristics. 

It is annoying as hell no one on the PM side seems to be driving much from what the Army knows perfectly well as human factors baseline info and requirements. Lots of good data from ACR, and programs since then, even if no time/money to get newer info. But instead we get these Nerf guns with zero obvious human consideration. I'd hope the evaluation includes that but if these are the downselected guns, the competition must have been full of poisoned spikes. 

/rant.

The things that will destroy America are prosperity at any price, peace at any price, safety first instead of duty first, the love of soft living and the get rich quick theory of life. – Theodore Roosevelt

 

Joined: 19NOV2004   Location: Mission, Kansas

generic_user_7 posted:

You haters are ignoring the fact that they have free pens and mints.

LOL the best part about these pens is they are shit quality. I always take a pen from a company if offered to judge its quality. I'm always surprised (shouldn't be) at the lack of quality.  Million(or more) dollar contracts under discussion.  Save 2,000.00 on cheap fucking pens. Does not compute in my mind. Either don't put the fucking pens out ... or put out bad ass ones.

like they told us endlessly in the Canoe Club. Can't do the small things. Can't do the big things.

Astronomy posted:

 

Re: The GL looking molding hanging from the bottom of the rifle... battery pack for optics? Or maybe just candy bar/Slim Jim storage?

 

 

 

 

I think it's the ejection mechanism for the case-telescoped ammo.  I believe cylinders like that have to be pushed straight into the chamber which rises and falls with respect to the bore.  I can't recall the details at the moment.

Jason -------------------------------- "Consumer, how many times have you hankered for vegan mayonnaise only to realize you're not man enough to open the jar?" -- Bucky B. Katt

shoobe01 posted:
Astronomy posted:

...these things are treated first as functional engineering challenges by teams of developers rather than ergonomic packages to be carried by combatants humans...


It is annoying as hell no one on the PM side seems to be driving much from what the Army knows perfectly well as human factors baseline info and requirements. Lots of good data from ACR, and programs since then, even if no time/money to get newer info. But instead we get these Nerf guns with zero obvious human consideration. I'd hope the evaluation includes that but if these are the downselected guns, the competition must have been full of poisoned spikes. 

/rant.

Like the SPIW program candidates?

Up here there was a line on a slide in a brief for the Minister's Advisory Group for the Integration of Women into the Combat Arms -MAGIC for short.  Really.  It was o/a 1995 and the line stated, "the over arching priority in future small arms acquisition will be ergonomics that ensure female soldiers can more easily participate".  

Joined sometime in 2008.                  Live in Canada.        

Well, that group thought that. I bet the small arms group took those from every other constituency and made it requirement 122 of 196 though. 

If you care, reasoning would be you change the ergonomics worksheets, what's the smallest [reach, grip diameter, etc, etc] that is supported. Things like M17/18 had the modularity requirement for the same reason. Has to support 5th percentile female and 95% percentile male. Seen the same result in things like design of vehicle troop seats, here and there in safety equipment for vehicles (don't put fire extinguisher button too far up...) and so on. 

The things that will destroy America are prosperity at any price, peace at any price, safety first instead of duty first, the love of soft living and the get rich quick theory of life. – Theodore Roosevelt

 

Joined: 19NOV2004   Location: Mission, Kansas

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