So I just picked up a replacement TT M5 after regretting selling mine and the guy included an alice-style ruck for an extra $30. Upon inspection, I found out it's an AWS Timberjack (copy of Mystery Ranch Timberwolf) from a contract overrun. It's slightly smaller than an alice medium and very similar to pictures of the PJ CSAR ruck.

I'm currently running an M9 aid bag and large alice, which is less-than-ideal, but the best I can find so far. Can any PJs on the forum tell me how they have their CSAR rucks set up? Or better yet, post up some pictures?

I was thinking of picking up some removable Mystery Ranch pouches (currently $24 a pop on ebay) for the main compartment and keeping trauma stuff in the 3 outer pockets. Then I can attach a smaller bag underneath (since the ruck only takes up the top half of my alice frame) for my bivvy items.

Any help would be immensely appreciated as pictures online of the CSAR ruck are few and far between... and I can't find a PJ packing list like the Ranger Medic Handbook one anywhere to give me a baseline.

 

Thanks!

Original Post

I would be interested as well.  Working with some 18Deltas on a ruck and med bag combo; would welcome input from here as well.  

"Pacifism is a shifty doctrine where a person claims all the benefits of the body politic, without any of the responsibilities, and then claims a halo for their dishonesty." Heinlein

Not a PJ but just pinged a friend who would know and he states that there is no SOP packing list for the career field.  

Ruck contents are AOR and mission specific.

Depending on what platform they are coming in on; medical supplies are considered expendable and may be deliberately left behind to make room for patients (Pavehawks in particular are space and weight sensitive).

If you’re at a Paramedic level of skills; then you already have enough experience to know what to pack and what to leave out.

Well, granted that there are all sorts of ways to do stuff, sometimes generalizations can be made.  For instance, some 18deltas want a 85L mission pack with an approx. 20L "med bag" that docs onto it.  What would go in the med bag vs what is carried internally, yeah that would be up to you.

Is the OP directed at just PJ's or is there another mission in mind?    

"Pacifism is a shifty doctrine where a person claims all the benefits of the body politic, without any of the responsibilities, and then claims a halo for their dishonesty." Heinlein

The Ranger Medic Handbook has a basic packing list for aid bags.  I believe the SF medic handbook or TMEPs does as well. 

I've seen a tactical tailor ruck modified to have a zip-on aid bag and I've always been intrigued by that system. The Tyr jungle ruck also allows for zip on panels and you could conceivably zip on a small trauma panel to that. 

 

 

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Ditch Medic

Joined: October 2009

Location: Washington State

I am a paramedic, so my loadout is pretty well worked out already. The reason I mentioned a packing  list is to mainly see if there's any recommendation in how to store it in the CSAR ruck like the Ranger Medic Handbook has the load split between FLC and M9. 

Generally my idea is to use removable pouches, a la Mystery Ranch-esque, in the main compartment for ARCH and advanced toolsets, with M covered  in the outside pouches.

I'm just looking to see if PJs, since they've been issued the ruck as far as I can tell, have any hands-on tips on how to utilize a small alice-style aid ruck. Essentially, I wanna steal what works for others without spending the next year trying a bunch of different ways to pack it.

I'm am NOT in my lane and not skilled much beyond first aid merit badge, however, I have had the privilege of being an RP for PJs and other assorted super cool guys in advanced med training. From my observations and conversations with them there does not seem to be a SOP for loadout, but each guy tailors their kit the way they see fit to best provide care. 

Location: North Carolina

Every SOF medic will at a minimum carry what is necessary to treat MARCH on 2 urgent/surgical patients and will have MSMAID (machine, suction, monitor, airway, IV, drugs) covered in some form or another. Outside of the Ranger Med Handbook there is no SOP or packing list that I've seen. It is always mission dependent. 

However - HOW to store your gear in your bag is up to you. Having MAR readily accessible is a must - so outside the main bag. C and H can be packed away along with a BVM, fluid warmer, stethoscope, chest tube kit, etc...

Tips for packing - kit your bag - hemcon kit, IV kits, cric kits, chest tube kit, fluid warmer kit, etc... vacuum seal and pack away. 

 

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Ditch Medic

Joined: October 2009

Location: Washington State

I'm not an authority on the subject but it's something that interests me as well (carrying a backpack based med kit with a sustainment load) and I came up with the following article in some past research. Perhaps it can assist you with that part of your search. Article is about 10 years old FWIW.

Part 1

Part 2

UNITEDTERRA: It would help if you'd describe the job/mission parameters for this lashup.

"CSAR" is an acronym for a specific military combat mission; under arms and potentially conducted in the face of armed opposition attempting to thwart the recovery & trauma medical treatment of friendlies.

Are you entertaining this gear for military unit taskings,  for volunteer civilian SAR use, or for a licensed medical responder job? It really makes a big difference in terms of gear layout, accessibility, and priorities. For instance, do you need to conduct rotary wing insertions and subsequent overland movement to rescue scenes in high winter mountains? Or are you doing life flight stuff in an urban area? Or anticipating recovery of a shot-down or crashed air crew? Active shooter stuff? Rural SAR  work? What is the expected composition of your team/backup? How do you see yourself moving for the majority of medical missions: via foot, vehicle, pack animal, or aircraft?

I'm not a medical provider, but am a former EMT, was cross trained (every year for decades) by SF battalion 18Ds, PAs, & MDs,  I also did the dedicated CSAR thing quite a bit across a long military career. Both in training and for real. Including Operations ALLIED FORCE/NOBLE ANVIL (Kosovo Air Campaign CSAR package) & Northern Iraq Operation PROVIDE COMFORT (Theater CSAR package). Almost always in conjunction with USAF STS (PJs & CCT) as part of a Joint AFSOF/ARSOF package. 

The likelihood (or lack thereof) of armed opposition drives the train... and drives the gear setup. If you need this for non-military responder purposes, the setup can be vastly different than if you need to rope down into a beleaguered firefight while carrying a lot shooty/explody/talky things (in addition to medical gear).

Spell out the job parameters (and likely usage) so that folks can better help you. A pack set up for recovering a shot down pilot is vastly different than one set up for recovering an injured civilian in a CONUS wilderness area. Horses for Courses.

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The moral high ground is sometimes just a head on a long pike... - Astronomy

 

A new Plt Ldr is like a first time new mother. The Plt Sgt is a lifelong midwife and nanny. It's your baby, but he knows a lot about changing diapers and other ugly things. - Astronomy

Ok, there seems to be a lot of confusion on what I'm asking for here. "CSAR" is the name of the ruck that I recently got a close copy of. Essentially it's a small/medium alice that leaves room for a litter or extraction device to mount on the bottom of the alice frame. PJs are issued it from what I gather and use it as an aid bag.

I'm a line 68W. I currently use a large alice and M9 bag dismounted. I would like to use the "CSAR" ruck I just got to carry my minimal sustainment gear and use as an aid bag to avoid having a giant partially packed ruck and a full aid bag.

I know what med gear to pack, so I don't need recommendations on what to carry, just how to carry it in this specific ruck. The question is really specific:

If you've ever used the PJ issued "CSAR" ruck in any capacity, how did you pack your medical supplies in it? Did you use removable pouches, inserts, or just stuffed a CLS bag in it?

I posted here because there are many SMEs on LF and I was hoping for someone that used this pack to speak up with how the supplies are stored.

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