I also swore at one time that I would never own one. I even cracked wise on a good buddy for purchasing one (he also owned a Hipoint, so his judgement was suspect, in general).   Part of my path to owning several was a desire to be better with my duty weapon. In my case the path to improvement meant quitting strikers almost entirely, so I could focus on DA/SA.

Btw, as an update to what I posted previously about hammer springs: I did eventually get two light strikes toward the end of my “2000 rnd” test with the 12lb spring. 16lb/D should be used for duty, and I continue to have no problems with the guns that have the D springs. 

Funny how everything we complained about when we went from the 1911 to the Beretta back when the Beretta was first issued are still the same.  There are many updates and improvements since that time and still some organizations/ unit haven't gotten the word.  Just a note: the first time I qualified with the M9 my back sight fell off, glad they fixed that.  Like some of you I said I would not buy a Beretta for personal use.  Currently have a Wilson Combat model and love it.   

As mentioned before, the Wilson thin grips do make a difference to the grip thickness.  A big difference by being smaller.  Really.  They have just a hint of a palm swell.  I've put them on both a full-size 92 and a compact size and think they are the best, liking the result even more than the Vertec/M9A3, which is a fine grip also.

Gun is currently at Dave Sams getting a DA/SA trigger job and a BarSto drop in barrel that didn't drop in, fitted.

I may give the thin grips a shot, later..but right now the duty gun has Uncle Mikes on it...so I'll probably stick with them on the personal gun.

----------------------------

"Good landing, good fight, and good luck" James M. Gavin 09Jul43

 "they say if it works, it's a good tactic...I say anything can work once" 

Has this thread really been languishing almost a year? Anyway, anyone else see this? 

https://www.langdontactical.com/optimized-performance-trigger-bar/

The NEW Optimized Performance Trigger Bar from LTT provides significant reduction in reset distance, improved double action, and a reduction in over travel on your Beretta 92/M9A1/M9A3. You can use it alone or combine it with an LTT Trigger job for quicker, smoother and more predictable shots. 

FAQ's: 

  • Will the OP Trigger Bar work with the existing trigger job/trigger job in a bag I have? Yes it will. 
  • Will the OP Trigger Bar work with the Short Reach Trigger? Yes. 
  • Is this drop in ready? Yes. It may need to be fitted, but less than the other trigger bars we sell. 
  • What 92's will this work in? It will work in the 92F models and later and *may* also work with 92SB's. It will not work with the 92S. 
  • Do I need to have a trigger job on my gun in order for this to work? No, you do not. 
  • Is the firing pin block functional and gun still drop safe with the installation of this OP Trigger Bar? Yes. 
  • Will the OP Trigger Bar work on a 92 Compact and Centurion? Yes. 
  • Will the OP Trigger Bar work on the 92D? Yes, it will work, but it will not reduce the reset. 
  • Does the OP Trigger Bar reduce pre-travel? No. 

 

Hmm... 

The things that will destroy America are prosperity at any price, peace at any price, safety first instead of duty first, the love of soft living and the get rich quick theory of life. – Theodore Roosevelt

 

Joined: 19NOV2004   Location: Mission, Kansas

I got an email this morning from Langdon regarding this trigger bar, probably the same email you did.  Cost appears to be the same for the NP3 finish or the Duralube.  I'm unfamiliar with the latter so I don't know if their lubricity is the same.  I will probably buy one and try it out.  I haven't viewed the video yet.

-------------------------

Mark

Swear allegiance to the flag Whatever flag they offer

Never hint at what you really feel

Teach the children quietly For some day sons and daughters

Will rise up and fight while we stood still

 

Joined:  2/24/2003                          Location:  Nevada, USA

WOW.  Looks like it'll get re-set closer to M1911-style.

I have lots of experience with the NP3 finish and like it a lot.  The Duralube sounds like a hard-nitriding to give you black, with some kind of smooth exterior level.  I'd go for the NP3 rather than the black, but some guys will want (or need for uniformity) the black. 

Agree that NP3 is full of awesome, can do wonders to things like drawbars. Get it if you can. But if you need to sneak this part into your boring, black issue gun, nice of them to offer a factory-looking finish.  

If anyone figures out what Duralube is, do share. 

The things that will destroy America are prosperity at any price, peace at any price, safety first instead of duty first, the love of soft living and the get rich quick theory of life. – Theodore Roosevelt

 

Joined: 19NOV2004   Location: Mission, Kansas

I just asked them:

"it's black nitride base under Diamond-Like Coating (DLC) on the Optimized Performance Trigger Bar.  This surface treatment not only hardens the surface of the trigger bar, but also provides a polished-like smooth interface for a trigger pull that glides"

The things that will destroy America are prosperity at any price, peace at any price, safety first instead of duty first, the love of soft living and the get rich quick theory of life. – Theodore Roosevelt

 

Joined: 19NOV2004   Location: Mission, Kansas

OK, so it's Ion-Bond over nitride.  Gotta be hard as hell.

If the drawbar is polished before hardening and finishing it'll be very smooth -- but the NP3 (by virtue of the fact it's a Teflon-Nickel coating) will be inherently more "Slippery" -- the more it wears and polishes the more teflon rubs against the side of the receiver.  The Ion-Bonded drawbar will also be harder than the anodized frame -- get that nasty, baby powder-fine Iraqi dust in there and you'll get some abrasive grit wear going. 

I got to play with and shoot Ernest's personal LTT Elite with this trigger bar last month.  Holy crap...the reset was so short, he kept running the slide on an empty gun to get me to find the reset.  You more or less blink or exhale and it would reset. 

Hopefully I can get this added on my gun before it leaves LTT. 

"Pain, we endure...faulty weaponry, we do not."

pointblank4445 posted:

I got to play with and shoot Ernest's personal LTT Elite with this trigger bar last month.  Holy crap...the reset was so short, he kept running the slide on an empty gun to get me to find the reset.  You more or less blink or exhale and it would reset. 

Hopefully I can get this added on my gun before it leaves LTT. 

I'm assuming his gun has the NP3 trigger bar, but please confirm.  There is such a thing as too short a reset.  I'll have to think about this some more.

-------------------------

Mark

Swear allegiance to the flag Whatever flag they offer

Never hint at what you really feel

Teach the children quietly For some day sons and daughters

Will rise up and fight while we stood still

 

Joined:  2/24/2003                          Location:  Nevada, USA

pointblank4445 posted:

I got to play with and shoot Ernest's personal LTT Elite with this trigger bar last month.  Holy crap...the reset was so short, he kept running the slide on an empty gun to get me to find the reset.  You more or less blink or exhale and it would reset.  

Soooo -- 1911-like?  I may get one for my National Match gun and my kid's Beretta.

pointblank4445 posted:

I got to play with and shoot Ernest's personal LTT Elite with this trigger bar last month.  Holy crap...the reset was so short, he kept running the slide on an empty gun to get me to find the reset.  You more or less blink or exhale and it would reset. 

Hopefully I can get this added on my gun before it leaves LTT. 

Damn you people. You're reminding me I still need to order an LTT... 

Joined: 30 May 2003                  Location: SE PA

hile posted:
pointblank4445 posted:

I got to play with and shoot Ernest's personal LTT Elite with this trigger bar last month.  Holy crap...the reset was so short, he kept running the slide on an empty gun to get me to find the reset.  You more or less blink or exhale and it would reset. 

Hopefully I can get this added on my gun before it leaves LTT. 

Damn you people. You're reminding me I still need to order an LTT... 

How do you think I feel?...

Go to Ernest's class and crush about 85-90%  with a RMR'd Glock (because as much as I resisted, I couldn't avoid it any longer)  and get talked into giving this DA/SA thing a try.  Come home, pump $350 into my old man's Beretta and it actually doesn't suck (Damn you, Ernest).  Here I am 6 weeks later grinding my teeth...counting the days before the LTT Elite shows up.  Fitting that after 20 years...I wound back up on the same pistol I started out with...

...AND my order updated to this trigger bar.  Tits!

"Pain, we endure...faulty weaponry, we do not."

Dorsai posted:
pointblank4445 posted:

I got to play with and shoot Ernest's personal LTT Elite with this trigger bar last month.  Holy crap...the reset was so short, he kept running the slide on an empty gun to get me to find the reset.  You more or less blink or exhale and it would reset. 

Hopefully I can get this added on my gun before it leaves LTT. 

I'm assuming his gun has the NP3 trigger bar, but please confirm.  There is such a thing as too short a reset.  I'll have to think about this some more.

His was NP3'd. 

"Pain, we endure...faulty weaponry, we do not."

I made the mistake of picking up a LTT ELITE which is everything I wanted in my Berettas, removable front sight, precision barrel, rail , tuned trigger and low profile “ G” de cocker etc

I also shoot them so much more consistently accurate than my GLOCKs and have been considering changing it up again and trying the Beretta 

 

"Without training they lack knowlege, without knowlege they lack discipline , without discipline they lack victory"

 

“Go as hard as you can, for as long as you can, and then quit.”

 

Joined: October 2, 2007

And now they’ve released the 92X line...bringing back the Centurion (my favorite  configuration for a duty Beretta) compact and full size....take my money

"Without training they lack knowlege, without knowlege they lack discipline , without discipline they lack victory"

 

“Go as hard as you can, for as long as you can, and then quit.”

 

Joined: October 2, 2007

If you want a lighter trigger pull, change the trigger main spring and replace it with the trigger spring from an M1911 model.  They are the same size and it improves the trigger pull by making it lighter.  

 

 

 

 

....

Sincerely,

 

Trajan Aurelius

 

 

When violence is the local language, be fluent.

 

"He who is not angry, whereas he has cause to be, sins.  For unreasonable patience is the hotbed of many vices, it fosters negligence, and incites not only the wicked but even the good to do wrong."  Saint Thomas Aquinas, "Summa Theologiae/Second Part of the Second Part/Question 158", c. 1274

I put Langdon’s TJIAB into one of my 92s last week, with the new Optimized Trigger Bar in Duralube black.  Go figure, mine was one of the “handful” of guns that wasn’t drop-in.  A tiny bit of filing on the trigger bar and she was up and running just fine—put 450 rounds through her on Saturday night and didn’t have a single bobble.  Compared to my LTT (with trigger job), I would say that the TJIAB gets you to 85% of the LTT, speaking just about the trigger pull itself (there are obviously a lot of other things you get with an LTT besides the trigger).  While not quite as silky smooth in DA, the trigger feel improved dramatically over a D-spring.  Definitely a worthwhile upgrade if you have a 92.  (Not part of the TJIAB, but I added the LTT thin grip panels, extended mag release, and a 10-8 U-notch rear sight.)

Joined: 2JAN2004

Location: South Florida

Anyone have a  Wilson with a Vertec Grip Frame conversion? I'm curious how that feels compared to the standard Centurion Tactical. Their description makes it sound like it's for smaller mitts. 

_______________________________________________________
"Idque apud imperitos humanitas vocabatur, cum pars servitutis esset"         

 

"Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem"

 

Joined: 9/5/2011 Location: The Former Empire State, now The State of Anarchy

I don't have a Wilson conversion, but I have handled the Vertecs.  Definitely a reduction in the grip circumference that benefits a small hand.  I might have considered it if I hadn't gone to the thin grip panels by LTT and Wilson.  With those, I don't have any issue with the standard grip.  YMMV.  The new 92x line is basically a revamped Vertec until you get to the race gun with the frame mounted safety, etc.  They have started appearing in the stores, so you should be able to fondle one and get an impression on the feel and whether you want to spend the money for the Wilson conversion.

-------------------------

Mark

Swear allegiance to the flag Whatever flag they offer

Never hint at what you really feel

Teach the children quietly For some day sons and daughters

Will rise up and fight while we stood still

 

Joined:  2/24/2003                          Location:  Nevada, USA

Thanks. I've handled the Elite LTT which felt pretty damn near perfect in my hands. But I was curious what the Vertec felt like.  I'm a large glove size so my initial impression is it probably would not work for me. 

By the way, it really sucks that Wilson won't do any work like adding the trigger bar until you take possession of the pistol. I really loath sending it back 5 minutes after picking it up. But that's one more check mark in the Elite LTT column. 

IMHO

_______________________________________________________
"Idque apud imperitos humanitas vocabatur, cum pars servitutis esset"         

 

"Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem"

 

Joined: 9/5/2011 Location: The Former Empire State, now The State of Anarchy

I like LTT and Wilson.  I have an LTT with the improved parts AND a Langdon trigger job.  I have the LTT tjib in two other 92's and while they are a tremendous improvement over stock, they still don't equal the LTT trigger job.  The 92 that I carry the most started out as an early model 92fs.  I won't detail all the changes, but it got a Vertec slide and from Wilson, checkering on the front and backstraps, rounded trigger guard, dehorned frame and a beveled magwell.  The trigger is very good and better than the Wilson guns we have in the counter, but still not as good as the LTT.  The Wilson checkering however, makes it feel better in the hand than even the LTT. 

If you like the Wilson, get it.  Then install the TJIB from LTT.  You can do it yourself, and it's more than just the trigger bar.

-------------------------

Mark

Swear allegiance to the flag Whatever flag they offer

Never hint at what you really feel

Teach the children quietly For some day sons and daughters

Will rise up and fight while we stood still

 

Joined:  2/24/2003                          Location:  Nevada, USA

You people are definitely reminding me that I need to get the Elite LTT, preferably with the trigger job.  Need to see if my LGS has that as an orderable SKU so I save paying the piper on transfers. Fuck, my credit card hates you all.

Joined: 30 May 2003                  Location: SE PA

hile posted:

You people are definitely reminding me that I need to get the Elite LTT, preferably with the trigger job.  Need to see if my LGS has that as an orderable SKU so I save paying the piper on transfers. Fuck, my credit card hates you all.

Pm me, I may be selling mine to go the 92x compact route

"Pain, we endure...faulty weaponry, we do not."

Dorsai posted:

I like LTT and Wilson.  I have an LTT with the improved parts AND a Langdon trigger job.  I have the LTT tjib in two other 92's and while they are a tremendous improvement over stock, they still don't equal the LTT trigger job.  The 92 that I carry the most started out as an early model 92fs.  I won't detail all the changes, but it got a Vertec slide and from Wilson, checkering on the front and backstraps, rounded trigger guard, dehorned frame and a beveled magwell.  The trigger is very good and better than the Wilson guns we have in the counter, but still not as good as the LTT.  The Wilson checkering however, makes it feel better in the hand than even the LTT. 

If you like the Wilson, get it.  Then install the TJIB from LTT.  You can do it yourself, and it's more than just the trigger bar.

Thanks. Getting the Wilson and TJIB might be the way to go.  Wilson also said they can do an "action tune", if I want it. I'm wondering whether that's worth it or has any parts conflicting with the TJIB. 

Anyway. So much for my EDC X9 purchase. I may have to put that off for a month or ten. 

_______________________________________________________
"Idque apud imperitos humanitas vocabatur, cum pars servitutis esset"         

 

"Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem"

 

Joined: 9/5/2011 Location: The Former Empire State, now The State of Anarchy

The only non-standard part other than the springs is the trigger bar, and unless you're getting the newest and greatest trigger bar from LTT, it is a Wilson trigger bar.   LTT polishes up the contact points for the sear, hammer, trigger, trigger bar hammer strut and hammer/main spring.  The trigger is SS matte finish. The hammer is a Beretta Elite.  The trigger spring, sear spring and hammer spring are replacements and you can specify what spring weight you want on the hammer/main spring.

Wilson's action tune is likely polishing up the same parts that LTT does.  I haven't felt a tuned Vertec, but I have handled a Centurion with the Wilson action job, and it was sweet.  It was what convinced me something could be done to the Beretta to make it much nicer in the gun.  Then I started my research.  Keep something in mind.  Ernest Langdon worked with/at Wilson at one time and basically taught them how to improve the 92.  They are in competition, but I believe it is a friendly and respectful competition.  I don't think you'll go wrong with either one.  The differences between Wilson and LTT are mainly cosmetic.  LTT starts with an M9A1 frame and Beretta dehorns the trigger guard and mag release areas to LTT specs so you don't get the knuckle callous. They add the extended Wilson mag release (same as Wilson) and a D hammer/main spring (same as Wilson).  LTT and Wilson have steel triggers and guide rods.  I think Wilson uses their spiral fluted recoil spring guide rod, but I'm not sure.  Wilson rounds the trigger guard and cuts another cross slot on the light rail that makes it more 92A1 looking.  I believe that is done by Beretta for Wilson.    Both have the Elite hammer.  Both have "G" conversions. LTT uses the Beretta Factory conversion, Wilson uses their own. LTT distinguishes their guns with the color accents, i.e. SS trigger, guide rod and barrel.  Wilson's are black.  Both have slim grips with slightly different checkering patterns made for them by VZ Grips.  Wilson's have a logo medallion in the grips, LTT has their logo engraved in the grip.  Wilson's standard are green for the 92 series, brown for the Vertec, LTT standard is black.

The 92x appears to use the M9A3 frame with a rounded trigger guard, but I can't verify that.  One of the differences between the M9A3 frame and the old Vertec is the spacing of the grip screws.  They aren't the same.  I don't know what frame Wilson uses for their Vertec, whether it is the old, true Vertec frame, or the M9A3.

Both Wilson and LTT offer their trigger jobs.  Wilson has parts, but they don't offer the TJIB option that LTT does.  You won't go wrong with either one, it's more the subtle differences.  But if you want a Vertec style frame, LTT doesn't offer one.

-------------------------

Mark

Swear allegiance to the flag Whatever flag they offer

Never hint at what you really feel

Teach the children quietly For some day sons and daughters

Will rise up and fight while we stood still

 

Joined:  2/24/2003                          Location:  Nevada, USA

Well, an Elite LTT followed me home from the LGS on Sunday. Now I need to look back through this thread in earnest (pun intended), as I need to figure out what Safariland gear fits this pistol.

Joined: 30 May 2003                  Location: SE PA

hile posted:

Well, an Elite LTT followed me home from the LGS on Sunday. Now I need to look back through this thread in earnest (pun intended), as I need to figure out what Safariland gear fits this pistol.

Good luck with that. I am not sure why SL doesn’t support the railed 90 series with lights or even an ALS for the railed model without light definitely a drawback for the railed models as a duty pistol

"Without training they lack knowlege, without knowlege they lack discipline , without discipline they lack victory"

 

“Go as hard as you can, for as long as you can, and then quit.”

 

Joined: October 2, 2007

Safariland 6280 LASD is the only modern light bearing holster available from that company as far as I know. It's a SLS, and the only SLS holster I'm still using. Everything else is ALS...... Not a bad holster though... hopefully with the semi revival of the Beretta in training circles a light bearing ALS will be developed. 

I've got some of the even older ( USMC issued types)safariland Beretta light bearing holsters and they leave much to be desired honestly. 

I really like JM custom kydex for concealment and belt mounted owb/ competition holsters as well.

"If you are not prepared to use force to defend civilization, then be prepared to accept barbarism."         - Thomas Sowell

"A Republic, if you can keep it" - Ben Franklin

 

LOCATION: ....

JOINED:  Feb 2012

     

rcbusmc24 posted:

Safariland 6280 LASD is the only modern light bearing holster available from that company as far as I know. It's a SLS, and the only SLS holster I'm still using. Everything else is ALS...... Not a bad holster though... hopefully with the semi revival of the Beretta in training circles a light bearing ALS will be developed. 

I've got some of the even older ( USMC issued types)safariland Beretta light bearing holsters and they leave much to be desired honestly. 

I really like JM custom kydex for concealment and belt mounted owb/ competition holsters as well.

Thanks for the info ! Galls has them on clearance for $38.00 so I ordered one 

"Without training they lack knowlege, without knowlege they lack discipline , without discipline they lack victory"

 

“Go as hard as you can, for as long as you can, and then quit.”

 

Joined: October 2, 2007

Picked up a nice Beretta Vertec 9mm locally with factory G kit. Easy to install and will have to due for practice until I can pick up my LTT elite 

"Without training they lack knowlege, without knowlege they lack discipline , without discipline they lack victory"

 

“Go as hard as you can, for as long as you can, and then quit.”

 

Joined: October 2, 2007

https://mailchi.mp/langdontact...ble-now?e=ea86cbe25f

LTT Beretta 92 Centurions and Compact models are now available.

Perfect for concealed carry. Order your's today.

-------------------------

Mark

Swear allegiance to the flag Whatever flag they offer

Never hint at what you really feel

Teach the children quietly For some day sons and daughters

Will rise up and fight while we stood still

 

Joined:  2/24/2003                          Location:  Nevada, USA

Have an LTT Elite that I’m running as a duty gun. Needs the TJIB to really make it what I want but it is phenomenally accurate 

Put a TJIB  in my Vertec and holy shit it makes all the difference!

Would love me a LTT compact!

 

"Without training they lack knowlege, without knowlege they lack discipline , without discipline they lack victory"

 

“Go as hard as you can, for as long as you can, and then quit.”

 

Joined: October 2, 2007

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