Bought a used Beretta 92FS, looking for ideas

The best bet is when they do some solid sales direct from Beretta.

"If I had a Grandpa, he would look like Delbert Belton"

Let those who love the LORD hate evil. The one who guards the lives of his godly ones will rescue them from the power of wicked people. Psalms 97:10 Trooper Troy Duncan-EOW 5-19-84 Deputy Erik Jon Telen-EOW 8-21-2001

I managed to find Mec-Gar 18rd mags for $20.79 ea.  Ordered 3.  I'll still keep my open for factory sales in November.

-------------------------

Mark

Swear allegiance to the flag Whatever flag they offer

Never hint at what you really feel

Teach the children quietly For some day sons and daughters

Will rise up and fight while we stood still

 

Joined:  2/24/2003                          Location:  Nevada, USA

Dorsai posted:
R.Moran posted:

I shoulda bought that Border Marshall at the gun show......sigh

We should have another thread to list all the things we regret NOT getting when we had the chance.  The opposite of all those guns we sold or traded and wish we hadn't.  Like all of the select fire AR receivers, HK sears, etc. that I could have bought and registered prior to May 1986.

I wish I had bought pallets of SKS's when they were $99 a piece. Or Norinco AK's to sock away for a couple of decades.

"Number 7 was interesting. My third leadoff homer in three games. I had used the same bat for the first two homers. I had planned to keep using that bat until I broke it. But while I was on deck, I put it back & took out another bat. You want to know that it's you and not the bat."- Brady Anderson, Baltimore Orioles.

 

Home: Eugene, OR. USA

Tooltech Gunsight are the Trijicon recommended folks for installing aftermarket night sights on the Beretta 92/96 series. They'll mill your slide for a front sight dovetail.

Tooltechgunsight.dot.com

"Number 7 was interesting. My third leadoff homer in three games. I had used the same bat for the first two homers. I had planned to keep using that bat until I broke it. But while I was on deck, I put it back & took out another bat. You want to know that it's you and not the bat."- Brady Anderson, Baltimore Orioles.

 

Home: Eugene, OR. USA

Time for a mid-season after action report.  Gunsmithing, not shooting.  I had intended to get out to the range this last weekend, but heavy rain made it a non-starter.  Too much mud.  However, as previously reported, I did replace the mainspring with a 1911 mainspring from the parts box and it was a truly remarkable improvement in both double and single action pulls.  Now to part two.

Sometimes, eagerness will nip you in the butt.  I've been doing all the research I could and anticipated that when the gun arrived, it would have a plastic guide rod, trigger and mag release.  So I ordered the parts I anticipated I wanted (or needed), so they'd get here more quickly.  And they did.  A day earlier than expected, a box from Brownells was waiting for me.

Turns out the gun is old enough that none of those parts were plastic.  All steel.  I will give Wilson Combat the benefit of the doubt that the fluted recoil spring guide is better than the non-fluted variety.  The advantage over the non-fluted steel rod however, is probably minimal.  The checkered, extended magazine release was a royal pain to install, but a necessary improvement and I'm well pleased.  The short reach Wilson Combat steel trigger was a shock.  Too short for my finger !  I will play around with it some more and be really sure about my choice, but right now, I don't think I need it.  It also didn't play well with the Wolff trigger return spring unit that dropped in easily with the standard trigger.  So my choices are standard trigger spring, short trigger or Wolff trigger spring and standard trigger.  The jury is still out, but at this point the only thing I really needed is the magazine release. 

-------------------------

Mark

Swear allegiance to the flag Whatever flag they offer

Never hint at what you really feel

Teach the children quietly For some day sons and daughters

Will rise up and fight while we stood still

 

Joined:  2/24/2003                          Location:  Nevada, USA

I've decided to alter the purpose of this post in the hopes that my Beretta journey proves useful to others.  I was out at the range on Saturday and Sunday.  All ball ammo, including Winchester white box, S&B and Wolf steel case.  At 25 yds, it was shooting low and left.  About 7" low and left.  Elevation changes are a no go with windage adjustable only rear sight and no front sight adjustment.  I drifted the rear and got it on for windage.  Shot some more at 15 yds today and it was dead on for elevation so now I know.  Because of the hammer spring change, I wanted to make sure it was reliable and strangely, it was good on Saturday, but not today.  I had several clicks instead of bangs with both Wolf and S&B.  Ironically, because I was doing familiarization work as opposed to training, I did actually run the trigger again for a 2nd strike and they fired.  Ironic because I am against 2nd strike as an option .  Again, I was trying to identify possible/actual malfunctions.

The takeaway is that I will purchase the Wilson Combat trigger bar and mainsprings.  The WC trigger bar alters how far back the hammer goes in DA so it gets a heftier strike at the firing pin.  That certainly seems desirable. 

I did a lot of DA shooting and I practiced taking it off safe as part of the presentation.  For me, it really slowed things down because I had to shift my grip to unsafe the lever, and then re-acquire the grip.  So the "G" conversion is now a must, not just a desire.  The thinner grips are still o n the budget.  At present, it's just too fat and affects indexing it in the hand so I don't have to hunt for the sight alignment as the gun comes up.

Finishing off with the magazines.  The full capacity magazines all worked fine, including the factory 15rd parkerized magazine.  It says PB, not Checkmate, but I don't know if Checkmate marked their name on the mags.  The factory 10rd ran great for 9 rounds, but the slide locked back with one round still in the mag.  Three new 18rd Mecgars were in the mail when I got home yesterday and they ran fine today.  Not a lot of ammo, but for the limited amount, no malfunctions.

-------------------------

Mark

Swear allegiance to the flag Whatever flag they offer

Never hint at what you really feel

Teach the children quietly For some day sons and daughters

Will rise up and fight while we stood still

 

Joined:  2/24/2003                          Location:  Nevada, USA

"PB" means it's a Beretta or a Beretta contract mag. The Checkmates won't have that. 10rd mags are known to have issues, unfortunately.

If you want an adjustable rear, Beretta makes several target sights. I've had my eye on this one:
https://www.berettausa.com/en-...e-rear-sight/c61045/

Plus Beretta is running 25% off with code "FLASH92" - might not hurt to check out?

"We the willing, led by the unknowing, are doing the impossible for the ungrateful."

Those adjustable sights don't work with a fixed front sight.  They are intended for a Brigadier.  But no worries, I drifted the rear sight so windage is good now, I'll just have to allow for the elevation.  Or do a search for a higher rear sight.  Things are good.  I'm getting used to the gun and solutions are simple.

-------------------------

Mark

Swear allegiance to the flag Whatever flag they offer

Never hint at what you really feel

Teach the children quietly For some day sons and daughters

Will rise up and fight while we stood still

 

Joined:  2/24/2003                          Location:  Nevada, USA

Ok, different link.  Your link specifically said they wouldn't fit the 92FS.  This one does.

https://www.berettausa.com/en-...e-rear-sight/e00169/

-------------------------

Mark

Swear allegiance to the flag Whatever flag they offer

Never hint at what you really feel

Teach the children quietly For some day sons and daughters

Will rise up and fight while we stood still

 

Joined:  2/24/2003                          Location:  Nevada, USA

I snagged a Wilson Combat 92G Vertec a couple of months ago off Gunbroker that looked un-fired.  I carried a 92F for four years as an issue pistol and pretty much hated everything but the reliability.  The Vertec grip and short trigger make this perfect for my weird hands: I take XL gloves but have short little stubby fingers.  I only have one range trip with it so far, but in 3-400 rounds of Speer 124 grain FMJ, it's run like a top and is more accurate than I am capable of.

Unfortunately  I can't find a Safariland, black basketweave duty holster for it with an X300 mounted.  I don't know if I want to pay Ted Blocker for a leather duty rig. 

Safariland  makes exactly one holster for a Beretta 92 with X300 currently,  it is the LASD model and available from CopQuest out in California, You can also call Safariland and sometimes get lucky with customer support and order one over the phone, it does not show up on their web store though....

I'm the weird guy who actually willingly uses Berettas, Been running them for Classes and USPSA / IDPA all season and not looking to go back to my Glocks at this time at all. Honestly, I actually like them over even my CZ Shadow 2's and those are purpose built Production USPSA guns. I shoot the Beretta's well and Have spent a bunch of time working up some 92A1's, and playing with the new Langdon Beretta's, Had some coaching down here in Jacksonville from Justin Dyal on how to run them well and it helped....a lot.  

The Langdon grips are the best thing I've used on the guns, All eight of my 92's have G levers installed, and while you can piece together the parts, the Langdon trigger job in a bag is the best deal going for improving the pistol. The full house Langdon 92 is hands down my favorite pistol to run for classes and competitions. Honestly, I am always a little mad at myself that I shunned Beretta's for so long due to the ones I encountered in the Marine Corps.....

 

 

 

"If you are not prepared to use force to defend civilization, then be prepared to accept barbarism."         - Thomas Sowell

"A Republic, if you can keep it" - Ben Franklin

 

LOCATION: Jacksonville NC

JOINED:  Feb 2012

     

Dorsai posted:

Ok, different link.  Your link specifically said they wouldn't fit the 92FS.  This one does.

https://www.berettausa.com/en-...e-rear-sight/e00169/

Ah, Beretta added that disclaimer then! A shame, it's a better target sight than the older E00169 from all that I've seen on it.

"We the willing, led by the unknowing, are doing the impossible for the ungrateful."

33C78BFA-DF2D-4145-99FF-0C3EE729B49B42AA84B2-9996-4A64-84B5-2D6042202F9ELike Blackdog, I always hated 92’s for everything but the reliability (cop guns were much different from the military guns due to maintenance).  Fast forward to Langdon Grips and “G” Guns and it is a different world.  Below is from my last range session training for a upcoming instructor class.  299 HiTS Super Test and a 298 Vickers 300.  This is the best I have been shooting in years.

"If I had a Grandpa, he would look like Delbert Belton"

Let those who love the LORD hate evil. The one who guards the lives of his godly ones will rescue them from the power of wicked people. Psalms 97:10 Trooper Troy Duncan-EOW 5-19-84 Deputy Erik Jon Telen-EOW 8-21-2001

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What hammer spring do you recommend?

-------------------------

Mark

Swear allegiance to the flag Whatever flag they offer

Never hint at what you really feel

Teach the children quietly For some day sons and daughters

Will rise up and fight while we stood still

 

Joined:  2/24/2003                          Location:  Nevada, USA

Dagga Boy posted:

33C78BFA-DF2D-4145-99FF-0C3EE729B49B42AA84B2-9996-4A64-84B5-2D6042202F9ELike Blackdog, I always hated 92’s for everything but the reliability (cop guns were much different from the military guns due to maintenance).  Fast forward to Langdon Grips and “G” Guns and it is a different world.  Below is from my last range session training for a upcoming instructor class.  299 HiTS Super Test and a 298 Vickers 300.  This is the best I have been shooting in years.

You're gonna have to show me how to do that.

I'll never like DA or M9s though..😉

----------------------------

"Good landing, good fight, and good luck" James M. Gavin 09Jul43

 "they say if it works, it's a good tactic...I say anything can work once" 

Dorsai posted:

What hammer spring do you recommend?

There's a long discussion on PF about that..I went with a 13# Wilson

The D spring didnt feel all that different to me....but..I can not confirm its presence in the arms room gun...

----------------------------

"Good landing, good fight, and good luck" James M. Gavin 09Jul43

 "they say if it works, it's a good tactic...I say anything can work once" 

#13 seems to be the hot ticket on the spring.

"If I had a Grandpa, he would look like Delbert Belton"

Let those who love the LORD hate evil. The one who guards the lives of his godly ones will rescue them from the power of wicked people. Psalms 97:10 Trooper Troy Duncan-EOW 5-19-84 Deputy Erik Jon Telen-EOW 8-21-2001

Thanks!

-------------------------

Mark

Swear allegiance to the flag Whatever flag they offer

Never hint at what you really feel

Teach the children quietly For some day sons and daughters

Will rise up and fight while we stood still

 

Joined:  2/24/2003                          Location:  Nevada, USA

C4D86E14-3D72-48E5-AC91-FCA1F0ACF952755DD1A3-6023-4636-B463-5493BC302C1BTom Givens from RangeMaster did his Advanced Firearms Instructor Development course in Dallas Texas.  It is a difficult course and full of serious instructors. Top Shooter coin and award was won with a Langdon Tactical Beretta 92 Elite by Spencer Keepers and the Top Qual Score coin was awarded to Darryl Bolke for a 250/250 with a Langdon Berreta 92 Elite.  This is what we call a clue about the viability of the Langdon Tactical Berettas.

"If I had a Grandpa, he would look like Delbert Belton"

Let those who love the LORD hate evil. The one who guards the lives of his godly ones will rescue them from the power of wicked people. Psalms 97:10 Trooper Troy Duncan-EOW 5-19-84 Deputy Erik Jon Telen-EOW 8-21-2001

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I ordered a Langdon trigger-in-a-bag kit and I'm waiting for it to ship.  Ironically, the kit with the 13# hammer spring is shown as not in stock, but you can buy a 14# kit, and a 13# spring.  So that is what I did.  My neighbor has a 92F and will appreciate the 14lb spring I put in his gun. 

-------------------------

Mark

Swear allegiance to the flag Whatever flag they offer

Never hint at what you really feel

Teach the children quietly For some day sons and daughters

Will rise up and fight while we stood still

 

Joined:  2/24/2003                          Location:  Nevada, USA

Sams Beretta92 test target292 test target1

Just got this from Dave Sams.

What started as a "cheap" plan went awry. I purchased a semi-fit barrel from Bar-Sto hoping it would drop in, then I would use the trigger job in a bag from Langdon   for a quick, inexpensive upgrade. I have had and seen decent results from these barrels.

Well, my barrel was one of the 3 out of 10 that didn't drop in. So, off to Sams it went.

FWIW, Dave doesn't just take a few swipes with the file until it fits, the work he lists as performed on the barrel is: finish barrel ramp, finish chamber, BBL rails, locking lugs timing

Dave performed a trigger job, which included polishing and adjusting all components, 4# SA and 7.5#DA trigger

I went with the LPA rear sight, so I wouldn't be playing games with a hammer trying to adjust to whatever load I choose. In the end this will be more of a range/training gun then a duty gun. 

When it was done, Dave called, he said he didn't think the Bar Sto with the 1/16 twist would shoot "worth a hoot" with 115grn ammo...he's a believer  in barrel twist affecting accuracy, and doesn't see the reason in shooting anything other than 115grn ammo.

His comment was that a full fit KKM would shoot far better...the above test targets are at 50yds...I have seen way better groups at the range, but those are full build guns...a little out of the aiming posts of what I was looking for....worse comes to worst...I'll send it back...but then I might as well go for the steel frame inserts, etc etc...and it gets away from ya real fast.....

Heading out to shoot it...qualify this weekend with the newly adopted course...

----------------------------

"Good landing, good fight, and good luck" James M. Gavin 09Jul43

 "they say if it works, it's a good tactic...I say anything can work once" 

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Yeah, what started out as a cheap project is still far cheaper than buying a built gun from Wilson Combat, but I have fallen into the "we can make it better" trap.  I really don't want to get a new barrel, but the last of the action parts arrives in the mail today.  The Langdon-trigger-job-in-a-bag.  I received and installed the Beretta factory "G" conversion parts last night and the Wilson ultra thin grips.  I proceeded slowly with the G conversion and everything went well.  This guy, MosinVirus, had a very good video on removing the old parts and installing the new ones.  He has a number of other good videos as well.  And for those who are interested, Beretta did something I haven't seen before.  They provided extra springs and plungers, anticipating the people who are going to slip and send them flying, never to be seen again except by the vacuum cleaner.

And of course the Wilson grips.  For my hands, those thin grips really, really improve the feel of the gun.  It fits much better.  So tonight I install the Langdon parts and then I go to the range on Saturday.  I'm limited to 15 yds on this outing, but that means the groups should be very small, right!

-------------------------

Mark

Swear allegiance to the flag Whatever flag they offer

Never hint at what you really feel

Teach the children quietly For some day sons and daughters

Will rise up and fight while we stood still

 

Joined:  2/24/2003                          Location:  Nevada, USA

Dorsai posted:

Yeah, what started out as a cheap project is still far cheaper than buying a built gun from Wilson Combat, but I have fallen into the "we can make it better" trap. 

You are doomed.

You will be seen at SHOT: a pale ghost of a man shuffling from one Beretta themed vendor to the other.

There is talk of us getting the Sig in 2020, if/when that happens, this gun may get the G conversion and thin grips, maybe the wilson sight, or the full fit KKM and better target sights....or I'll sell it.

Barrel:...maybe look for an elite II barrel on Ebay or Gunbroker, they come up for about $180 or so...I'm sure this BarSto will shoot once you find it's load....but the full fit KKM seems to be the ticket for accuracy.

Shot about 200 rds thru the gun today. Eyesight and shooting glasses choice is now becoming a bigger issue. Having to match the combo to the target...

The gun definitely shoots better then the factory barrel did, but sights or target being blurry is preventing me from shooting the best.

Only issue was with Atlanta Arms 110 JHP...yes 110....would not fully go into battery..I forced it for 7 rounds, and it shot very well..but I wasn't going to keep fighting it.



Still don't like DA, or the M9....don't know what all the fuss as of late, is all about.

----------------------------

"Good landing, good fight, and good luck" James M. Gavin 09Jul43

 "they say if it works, it's a good tactic...I say anything can work once" 

Brock01 posted:

What is it about the elite barrels that are desirable?

Besides Stainless construction, they are shorter, so flush with the slide of a 92FS/M9 and have a recessed type crown..said to be slightly more accurate....they look cool also.

----------------------------

"Good landing, good fight, and good luck" James M. Gavin 09Jul43

 "they say if it works, it's a good tactic...I say anything can work once" 

R.Moran posted:
Brock01 posted:

What is it about the elite barrels that are desirable?

Besides Stainless construction, they are shorter, so flush with the slide of a 92FS/M9 and have a recessed type crown..said to be slightly more accurate....they look cool also.

Thank you. 

The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants.

Range day tomorrow.  Just to keep the accounting straight (I'm not including the cost of parts I bought, but am not using.  Lesson learned)

$330 for the gun with 5 mags, 2 holsters and a set of Hogue grips.  Sold the grips for $10.  I'm going to call the value of the holsters and extra mags $50.  That brings the actual "gun" cost down to $270.
$160  Langdon Tactical trigger job in a bag
$  90  Wilson Combat ultra-thin grips (VZ Grips)
$  47  Beretta "G" conversion
$  39  Wilson Combat extended, checkered magazine release
$  27   Wolff trigger spring

$633   total in the gun.  I'm not including extra magazines

-------------------------

Mark

Swear allegiance to the flag Whatever flag they offer

Never hint at what you really feel

Teach the children quietly For some day sons and daughters

Will rise up and fight while we stood still

 

Joined:  2/24/2003                          Location:  Nevada, USA

Cost?

You are doing ALOT better then me.....I don't wanna even get into it

----------------------------

"Good landing, good fight, and good luck" James M. Gavin 09Jul43

 "they say if it works, it's a good tactic...I say anything can work once" 

My final thoughts for awhile.  I think I'm pretty much complete.  I am going to keep my eyes open for a SS 4.7" barrel, commonly used in the Elite II and Brigadier models.  But it isn't necessary.  I'm going to get some replacement grip screws as the originals have a little rust  in the slots.  Allen head screws run about $15, so no big deal.

I went to the range today and it was 100% reliable.  The 1911 mainspring can work, but I don't know what the weight was on the one I had in the parts box, so it could have been lighter than standard.  Anyway, it had a couple of failures to fire, whereas the 13lb Wilson Combat spring was 100% reliable.  Though I have to add, the WC trigger bar is also designed to increase the DA hammer travel so it strikes with more force.  Trigger pull is not quite as nice as the Wilsons in the counter, but they may have the 12lb springs.  Since I wasn't intending to build a match gun, I'll accept the slightly heavier pull for assured reliability.  Now I have to get in more practice with the DA/SA transition.  For those who have shied away from the custom guns, you can get 85-90% for about $250 if you feel capable of installing parts yourself.  VZ  stocks and an Elite barrel will double the upgrade cost at least, so that's something to consider if you are just getting into the gun and are going to start with a new one.  Which is why I waited until I found a good used one.  Start punching a calculator and buying a Langdon or Wilson Combat is cheaper than upgrading a new 92 or 92A1.

7

-------------------------

Mark

Swear allegiance to the flag Whatever flag they offer

Never hint at what you really feel

Teach the children quietly For some day sons and daughters

Will rise up and fight while we stood still

 

Joined:  2/24/2003                          Location:  Nevada, USA

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plus one on the Wilson or Langdon....I'm into mine for way more then that. 

I mean I've got the work done by a top smith, one that pioneered Beretta work at AMU...so....but still.

And I guess Im gonna have to suck it up on the grips..and get the langdons 

----------------------------

"Good landing, good fight, and good luck" James M. Gavin 09Jul43

 "they say if it works, it's a good tactic...I say anything can work once" 

God damn you Darryl and  Bob.  I thought working on this one would be enough.  At the range again today and shooting it felt a lot better than a Glock.  So I've decided that my 2019 goal will be a Langdon.  The only question is how far to take it.  You bastards!

-------------------------

Mark

Swear allegiance to the flag Whatever flag they offer

Never hint at what you really feel

Teach the children quietly For some day sons and daughters

Will rise up and fight while we stood still

 

Joined:  2/24/2003                          Location:  Nevada, USA

Dorsai posted:

God damn you Darryl and  Bob.  I thought working on this one would be enough.  At the range again today and shooting it felt a lot better than a Glock.  So I've decided that my 2019 goal will be a Langdon.  The only question is how far to take it.  You bastards!

Not me!....I hate the gun...$2K in.....still hate it

----------------------------

"Good landing, good fight, and good luck" James M. Gavin 09Jul43

 "they say if it works, it's a good tactic...I say anything can work once" 

R.Moran posted:
Dorsai posted:

God damn you Darryl and  Bob.  I thought working on this one would be enough.  At the range again today and shooting it felt a lot better than a Glock.  So I've decided that my 2019 goal will be a Langdon.  The only question is how far to take it.  You bastards!

Not me!....I hate the gun...$2K in.....still hate it

I hate that I shoot so damn well with them too.....but I do.  The PX4CC is really my do all but my Elite fits the bedside and overt carry role, and this just came.

My new job requires armed travel at a moments notice without a lot of intel and many changes where ending up in a magazine ban city or state is inevitable.  I needed to build a dedicated 10 round travel gun and wanted it capable of sliding a X300 on for hotel rooms at night.  I located a M9A1 Compact frame, a Centurion FS slide, a stainless Compact barrel and sent the whole mess to Ernest Langdon with instructions to do it up just like it was for him.  What arrived today is a masterpiece and fills the role perfectly for traveling with 1 gun and one box of ammo and five ten round magazines.  Have it set up for a fanny pack, AIWB, and a Shark OWB for suit and tie.  Covers all the bases.  I will be breaking it in tonight.

9EA5185C-9B58-47F9-97C3-9D0E4CF0DDD05523FB8E-971E-4BA2-959E-76617F8A1EA64C825AF3-2D8E-4ECE-9324-C70FF25BFC97

"If I had a Grandpa, he would look like Delbert Belton"

Let those who love the LORD hate evil. The one who guards the lives of his godly ones will rescue them from the power of wicked people. Psalms 97:10 Trooper Troy Duncan-EOW 5-19-84 Deputy Erik Jon Telen-EOW 8-21-2001

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Dagga Boy posted:
R.Moran posted:
Dorsai posted:...
 

Not me!....I hate the gun...$2K in.....still hate it

I hate that I shoot so damn well with them too.....but I do.  The PX4CC is really my do all but my Elite fits the bedside and overt carry role, and this just came...

Man, you guys. Been in at least two classes where high pistol shooter hated his gun, and wouldn't stop talking about how much he hated it. 

Embrace the dark side! Love your hated-but-totally-effective gun! 

The things that will destroy America are prosperity at any price, peace at any price, safety first instead of duty first, the love of soft living and the get rich quick theory of life. – Theodore Roosevelt

 

Joined: 19NOV2004   Location: Mission, Kansas

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