CNN, yes, CNN on the SIG P320

Setting aside my personal distaste (acquired) for SIG, I have to say that I don't have a problem with this article for the most part. I have no issue with actual investigative journalism, since that implies that the paper/writer/channel/producer's personal biases do not influence the article. 

In this case it seems to be a legitimately researched article, and I'm not going to defend SIG just because CNN is the one attacking them. SIG has made their bed and now needs to lie in it.

I do question the story about Deputy Vadnais, only because the details as provided seem a little sketchy. The gun going off merely by being taken off while in a holster seems off to me. Not saying she's lying, just that the article is pretty weak in that area.

I’m going to guess the Omaha Outdoors test was using starter blanks or similar in its test, because that looks sketchy as fuck.

Good on the investigation for pulling in documented cases of the problem, but man, the remainder reads like shit when it tries to dumb down cycle of operations or other technical elements.

It is better that they do it imperfectly than that you do it perfectly. For it is their war and their country and your time here is limited.

 

                                                                                                                        —T. E. Lawrence

 

 

POSREP: UAE

Sig P320... The expensive Hipoint with a rail and modular grips.

I am glad this is getting mainstream media attention. Sig needs their feet held to the fire on this one. Some execs and engineers need some time in federal prison.

And the Army should pull the contract and re-award it to a company that isn't a chronic fuckup.

Skandar posted:

I do question the story about Deputy Vadnais, only because the details as provided seem a little sketchy. The gun going off merely by being taken off while in a holster seems off to me. Not saying she's lying, just that the article is pretty weak in that area.

This happened in our academy parking lot.  I have heard NOTHING about it being a drop safety issue. 

“They were two douchebags who met in the normal course of being two douchebags.” - Sully, Third Watch

The case of Deputy Vadnais reads like an ND, and (in my opinion) hurts the rest of the investigative piece. That being said, this is good reporting, and not what CNN has been putting out recently. I won't hate the messenger or the message here, though CNN as a whole is turning into a tabloid.

Frankly, given the issues with EVERY ONE OF SIG'S PRODUCTS over the last decade I'm surprised that they haven't been held to more scrutiny. What's the running joke - "don't buy SIG until after the second recall?"

"We the willing, led by the unknowing, are doing the impossible for the ungrateful."

From CNN and GGammell's post, Deputy Vadnais' injury does not sound like a mechanical issue.  I'll assume that she may not realize exactly what caused the discharge.  That said, given the issues SIG has had with the 320 and quality control overall, it may well be worth it for her to roll the dice for a settlement.

Best wishes for here recovery and that of other officers injured by Nitron-on-blue incidents.

Longeye posted:

Sig P320... The expensive Hipoint with a rail and modular grips.

I am glad this is getting mainstream media attention. Sig needs their feet held to the fire on this one. Some execs and engineers need some time in federal prison.

And the Army should pull the contract and re-award it to a company that isn't a chronic fuckup.

The Army didn't select the 320

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"Good landing, good fight, and good luck" James M. Gavin 09Jul43

 "they say if it works, it's a good tactic...I say anything can work once" 

A copper local to me said he had a pre-upgrade P320 discharge in his holster when he was loading his patrol car.  Duty bag hit the back of his gun.  The bullet struck the phone in his pocket which may have prevented any real injury.

While there’s always a chance he could have been lying and caused the discharge due to negligence, the guy was going through a firearms instructor course at my place and was a fairly competent gun handler throughout the class.

 

The Oklahoma Highway Patrol issued the 320 several years ago, and almost immediately there were stories of accidental, "in-holster" discharges. The gun was pulled for a time, but quietly was introduced back into service. I heard that Texas DPS also issued and recalled the same pistol. This was long before all the internet videos of the gun going off while being dropped. 

Frankly, I assumed it was troopers putting their fingers inadvertantly on the tigger, and blaming anything else (as is normal for most people who have an ND).  

Now, I'm not so sure there isn't something to this. Something isn't adding up mechanically. Not and engineer, and didn't stay at a Holiday Inn Express - ever. But this thing seems to like to go off on it's own, and has for years.  I think Sig is going to take it in the shorts on this one in the long run. 

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It's easy to make assumptions about puppies strapped to missiles, but good science requires research.

 

Joined: 12-2005          Location: Central OK

R.Moran posted:
Longeye posted:

Sig P320... The expensive Hipoint with a rail and modular grips.

I am glad this is getting mainstream media attention. Sig needs their feet held to the fire on this one. Some execs and engineers need some time in federal prison.

And the Army should pull the contract and re-award it to a company that isn't a chronic fuckup.

The Army didn't select the 320

So, we'll call it the M17 - same gun, different bells and whistles.

"We the willing, led by the unknowing, are doing the impossible for the ungrateful."

PlasticMag posted:
R.Moran posted:
Longeye posted:

Sig P320... The expensive Hipoint with a rail and modular grips.

I am glad this is getting mainstream media attention. Sig needs their feet held to the fire on this one. Some execs and engineers need some time in federal prison.

And the Army should pull the contract and re-award it to a company that isn't a chronic fuckup.

The Army didn't select the 320

So, we'll call it the M17 - same gun, different bells and whistles.

Yep. Kinda like the Beretta 92  and the M9 being pretty much the same thing.

 

Longeye posted:
PlasticMag posted:
R.Moran posted:
Longeye posted:

Sig P320... The expensive Hipoint with a rail and modular grips.

I am glad this is getting mainstream media attention. Sig needs their feet held to the fire on this one. Some execs and engineers need some time in federal prison.

And the Army should pull the contract and re-award it to a company that isn't a chronic fuckup.

The Army didn't select the 320

So, we'll call it the M17 - same gun, different bells and whistles.

Yep. Kinda like the Beretta 92  and the M9 being pretty much the same thing.

 

Not according to Ash Hess. The M17 is different then the 320 and what the FBI tested.

----------------------------

"Good landing, good fight, and good luck" James M. Gavin 09Jul43

 "they say if it works, it's a good tactic...I say anything can work once" 

R.Moran posted:
Longeye posted:

Yep. Kinda like the Beretta 92  and the M9 being pretty much the same thing.

 

Not according to Ash Hess. The M17 is different then the 320 and what the FBI tested.

Where is his commentary? Is it on his Facebook page? I have not been following digital media as closely as I was- Especially the bipolar mess called Facebook.

PlasticMag posted:

What is different about it?

During the MHS trials SIG allegedly proposed Engineering Change Request E0005, which change the trigger internals and among other things prevents the -30 Degree discharge problem. 

Allegedly, the ECR was the basis for the SIG voluntary upgrade for the P320s.

Source:  http://soldiersystems.net/2017...untary-p320-upgrade/

 

___________________________________________________________________

I'm either dead right, or horribly wrong. Either way the results should be entertaining.

 

"Shoot the MOTHERF$%^ER until he changes shape or catches fire"  the PAT ROGERS

I don't recall where I read it or saw the interview. Probably P&S FB page

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"Good landing, good fight, and good luck" James M. Gavin 09Jul43

 "they say if it works, it's a good tactic...I say anything can work once" 

But aside from the trigger, the M17 IS the P320... And the P320 post-"voluntary upgrade" is basically the same as the M17 given the reported changes of the M17 to remove some of the 'features' like the anti-tampering pins. Once you get past the safety and the paint job, I'm not seeing any significant difference these days.

"We the willing, led by the unknowing, are doing the impossible for the ungrateful."

PlasticMag posted:

But aside from the trigger, the M17 IS the P320... And the P320 post-"voluntary upgrade" is basically the same as the M17 given the reported changes of the M17 to remove some of the 'features' like the anti-tampering pins. Once you get past the safety and the paint job, I'm not seeing any significant difference these days.

I'd personally be interested in what ECR 1-4 were and if there have been additional ECRs for the M17. 

___________________________________________________________________

I'm either dead right, or horribly wrong. Either way the results should be entertaining.

 

"Shoot the MOTHERF$%^ER until he changes shape or catches fire"  the PAT ROGERS

Tampa Police Department Replaces Official Duty Pistol with SIG SAUER P320

SIG SAUER, Inc., is pleased to announce the Tampa Police Department will replace their official duty pistol from the Smith & Wesson M&P, to the SIG SAUER P320. The Tampa Police Department has over 1,000 sworn officers, covering three districts that encompass the entire municipality of Tampa, Florida.

“SIG SAUER is honored to earn the trust of the men and women of the Tampa Police Department through their selection of the P320 pistol as their official duty pistol,” began Tom Jankiewicz, Executive Vice president, Law Enforcement Sales, SIG SAUER, Inc. “The modularity of the P320, with its ability to select grip size, combined with the proven reliability, accuracy, and safety of the firearm made it the right choice for this diverse group of officers.”

The P320 is a modular, striker-fired pistol available in full-size, carry, compact, and subcompact sizing. The serialized trigger group makes the P320 adaptable to multiple caliber, size, and grip options. The P320 is available in 9mm, .357SIG, 40S&W, and .45ACP, with a choice of contrast, or SIGLITE Night Sights. The intuitive 3-point takedown requires no trigger pull for disassembly, and safety features include a striker safety, disconnect safety, and optional manual safety.

The Tampa Police Department will acquire 1,375, P320 pistols to replace their current Smith & Wesson M&P’s as the approved official duty pistol.

“We here at SIG SAUER are very proud to gain the confidence of the Tampa PD and assist them in safely carrying out their department’s mission – to reduce crime and enhance the quality of life through a cooperative partnership with all citizens,” concluded Jankiewicz.

***********

Queue the haters.  

_______________________________________________________
"Idque apud imperitos humanitas vocabatur, cum pars servitutis esset"         

 

"You are never out of the fight."

 

Joined: 9/5/2011 Location: The Former Empire State, now The State of Anarchy

I'll stick my neck out and make a prediction.  The S&W M&P 3.0 will be modular with a serialized fire control group and "pick your frame and slide group" options.  10 years from now, the Glock Gen 7 will be modular.

-------------------------

Mark

Swear allegiance to the flag Whatever flag they offer

Never hint at what you really feel

Teach the children quietly For some day sons and daughters

Will rise up and fight while we stood still

 

Joined:  2/24/2003                          Location:  Nevada, USA

Dorsai posted:

I'll stick my neck out and make a prediction.  The S&W M&P 3.0 will be modular with a serialized fire control group and "pick your frame and slide group" options.  10 years from now, the Glock Gen 7 will be modular.

I thought the same thing.  Followed by- "I wonder how much is patented and can't be replicated". 

_______________________________________________________
"Idque apud imperitos humanitas vocabatur, cum pars servitutis esset"         

 

"You are never out of the fight."

 

Joined: 9/5/2011 Location: The Former Empire State, now The State of Anarchy

Wasn't someone suing SIG over the swappable lowers?

___________________________________________________________________

I'm either dead right, or horribly wrong. Either way the results should be entertaining.

 

"Shoot the MOTHERF$%^ER until he changes shape or catches fire"  the PAT ROGERS

Steyr is suing both Sig (and I believe Beretta) claiming patent infringement.  Interestingly they (Steyr) filed suit in the district where their U.S. operations are located. Weird.   

I had my IP attorney look at the suit and patent information/history.  When he stopped laughing, he wished Steyr good luck.  He obviously didn't agree with the claims and will wait to see Sig's response. But his take was that Steyr is trolling for a check.  You know, given their contract win with DoD.

By the way, that patent expires next year, so it's been around for awhile. 

_______________________________________________________
"Idque apud imperitos humanitas vocabatur, cum pars servitutis esset"         

 

"You are never out of the fight."

 

Joined: 9/5/2011 Location: The Former Empire State, now The State of Anarchy

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