http://www.wvtm13(DOT)com/news/Rogers-proposes-CMP-take-control-of-old-Army-pistols/32720294

 

 

ANNISTON, Ala. —An east Alabama congressman has a plan to save taxpayers money when it comes to storing vintage firearms for the Army.

The plan involves moving the weapons to the Civilian Marksmanship Program, which includes its facility in Anniston.

 

Congressman Rogers says it's a win-win because the pistols are placed in very capable hands at the Civilian Marksmanship Program and it also saves taxpayers roughly $200,000 per year.

 

he M1911A1 pistol was once the standard sidearm for U.S. armed forces. Rogers says a little over 8,000 of the 100,000 pistols were sold to law enforcement and transferred to foreign countries for a small price. The rest are in storage.

 

The CMP will inspect, grade, and prepare the pistols to be sold. It will also reimburse the Army for any costs associated with moving the firearms.

 

Congressman Rogers announced the plan after the passage of the National Defense Authorization Act of 2016. It's part of the House Armed Services Committee.

 

"This is an issue that a lot of people didn't know about," Rogers points out. "I'm sure a lot of collectors around the country are going to be happy that these are going to be available to them."

 

The chief operating officer of the Civilian Marksmanship Program in Anniston tells WVTM 13 in order to buy a pistol, you must meet four requirements. You must be a U.S. citizen, have proof of membership to a CMP club, have marksmanship safety training, and successfully pass a background check.

 

From Congressman Rogers website

 

(WASHINGTON, D.C.)—Congressman Mike Rogers made the following remarks after passage of the National Defense Authorization Act (NDAA) of 2016 out of the House Armed Services Committee (HASC), which included his amendment to allow the Army to transfer its surplus vintage firearms to the Civilian Marksmanship Program (CMP).

 

“As a gun owner and strong believer in the Second Amendment, my proposal is a common-sense approach to eliminating an unnecessary cost to the Federal government while allowing the very capable CMP to handle the sale of these vintage firearms that otherwise would just sit in storage. This amendment is a win – win for the taxpayer. I was pleased the amendment passed the committee and appreciate the support my colleagues on this proposal,” Rogers said.

 

Currently, the Army stores excess M1911A1 pistols, which used to be the standard U.S. Armed Forces sidearm, until it was replace by the Berretta 9mm pistol. Besides the 8,300 pistols that have been sold to law enforcement and transferred to foreign countries for a small price, the rest of the M1911A1 pistols are now being held in storage costing the taxpayer around $200,000 a year.

 

Transferring these vintage pistols to the CMP would allow them to inspect, grade, prepare for sale and sell these pistols. The CMP would reimburse the Army for costs associated with transferring the pistols. CMP South, headquartered in Anniston, Alabama, oversees sales. CMP North is headquartered in Camp Perry, Ohio.

 

The NDAA is expected to come to the House Floor in May.


 

 

This brings a tear to my eye. Thank You Congressman Rogers.

 

Original Post

I sure hope it passes!  They'll go faster than hotcakes, faster than the M1 Carbines a couple of years ago.  Serious short term devaluation of the current collector grade M1911A1's.  I also predict that they'll find original M1911's in the pile and those will probably go to auction....if it passes.

-------------------------

Mark

Swear allegiance to the flag Whatever flag they offer

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Joined:  2/24/2003                          Location:  Nevada, USA

80,000? I hope thats true. Even if they are in rough shape, there will be plenty of these for everyone. But, there will be many tears shed in the surplus market as this may drop the price of the ones on the surplus market by half.

 

A field grade Colt for $500 (hopefully)... so much win...

I don't think the CMP will blow these out at bargain basement prices if this comes to fruition.  The current leadership understands that eventually, surplus firearms for sale are going to run out and with that a major source of funding for the CMP will be gone. I don't think the prices will be highway robbery, but $700 a pistol won't surprise me, with better specimens graded and priced accordingly.

 

"Hold my beer and watch this"

As the modest collector that I am, I am beyond thrilled to hear this. A slight drop in the market of martial 1911/1911a1s might suck for those fortunate enough to have a stockpile already, but this is a serious win for the rest of us IF it goes through.

 

There is no doubt many will be sold by the CMP through auction, but I can at least dream about some field grade workhorses being shelf-stocked items (ie: mismatched slides/replacement parts/etc).

And somewhere in Connecticut, a bottle of Pappy Van Winkle was opened........

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IT'S A COLT.  THEY'RE LIKE THE HK OF GUNS.

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 Joined: 28 Nov 2004: 0037hrs        Location: The worst run state in the U.S

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Joined: 1/30/06 3:34 PM - Location:MA

Originally Posted by Middlelength:

80,000? I hope thats true. Even if they are in rough shape, there will be plenty of these for everyone. But, there will be many tears shed in the surplus market as this may drop the price of the ones on the surplus market by half.

 

A field grade Colt for $500 (hopefully)... so much win...

No telling how many have been run through Capt' Crunch the crusher that resides at Anniston along with CMP. There maybe alot less than we all hope. 

Originally Posted by redneckemt:
Originally Posted by Middlelength:

80,000? I hope thats true. Even if they are in rough shape, there will be plenty of these for everyone. But, there will be many tears shed in the surplus market as this may drop the price of the ones on the surplus market by half.

 

A field grade Colt for $500 (hopefully)... so much win...

No telling how many have been run through Capt' Crunch the crusher that resides at Anniston along with CMP. There maybe alot less than we all hope. 

Should be a matter of record, actually...

I found the following on arfcom (here), so grain of salt and all that, but it seems fairly credible.


[Defense Logistics Agency spokesman Larry] Wilson gave a break-down of the guns destroyed as of March 1994 as follows: .45 caliber automatic pistols (110,000), M-14 rifles (50,000), M1 carbines (45,000), M1903A3 drill rifles (40,000), M1 Garands (30,000), M3 .45 "grease guns" (20,000), M1903 Springfields (6,000), and M12 .22 caliber target rifles (6,000). Wilson calculated it had cost $3.52 to destroy each weapon and the Material Command was destroying 3,000 guns per day.

 

Should be a matter of record, actually...

I found the following on arfcom (here), so grain of salt and all that, but it seems fairly credible.


[Defense Logistics Agency spokesman Larry] Wilson gave a break-down of the guns destroyed as of March 1994 as follows: .45 caliber automatic pistols (110,000), M-14 rifles (50,000), M1 carbines (45,000), M1903A3 drill rifles (40,000), M1 Garands (30,000), M3 .45 "grease guns" (20,000), M1903 Springfields (6,000), and M12 .22 caliber target rifles (6,000). Wilson calculated it had cost $3.52 to destroy each weapon and the Material Command was destroying 3,000 guns per day.

It got dusty in here after reading that. Damn pollen....

Even if those numbers are remotely correct and/or half those guns were deemed unserviceable, I can't help but think of all the spare parts for collectors and shooters alike who could have used them.

Originally Posted by VeniViciVinci:
 

Should be a matter of record, actually...

I found the following on arfcom (here), so grain of salt and all that, but it seems fairly credible.


[Defense Logistics Agency spokesman Larry] Wilson gave a break-down of the guns destroyed as of March 1994 as follows: .45 caliber automatic pistols (110,000), M-14 rifles (50,000), M1 carbines (45,000), M1903A3 drill rifles (40,000), M1 Garands (30,000), M3 .45 "grease guns" (20,000), M1903 Springfields (6,000), and M12 .22 caliber target rifles (6,000). Wilson calculated it had cost $3.52 to destroy each weapon and the Material Command was destroying 3,000 guns per day.

It got dusty in here after reading that. Damn pollen....

Even if those numbers are remotely correct and/or half those guns were deemed unserviceable, I can't help but think of all the spare parts for collectors and shooters alike who could have used them.

 

Oh, absolutely, and every cent that was spent by Uncle Sam  on destroying any of those weapons' parts that could have been sold instead  is, IMO, darn near criminal waste.
Granted, the MGs couldn't be sold whole without major changes...but there's no reason that Grease Gun bolts, barrels, and small parts couldn't have been surplussed off, then the receivers crunched, for example.
Ditto the M-14 rifles. Pull any parts that have some life left in 'em, let CMP sell 'em (or auction them off), and only then crunch the things that cannot be sold...and sell the scrap for whatever can be gotten.

Oh well.

Larry Wilson apparently does not know who paid for those firearms.  I would like to shout in his ear he owes a huge debt back to the American taxpayers.   I really dislike guys like him.

kwg

Liberalism is the ideology of western suicide.

James Burnham

I'd love for this to happen. I have no interest in buying a modern 1911, but a older military issue 1911 - hell yes. Would help ease the painful memory of the Army issue Remington Rand for $400 I passed on back around 1999.

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I've been falling so long it's like gravity's gone & I'm just floating...

I just squealed like a 13 year old girl at a Bieber concert.  An authentic GI issue 1911 would round out my WWII "this is what grandpa" carried collection.

Please note: not an aspiring inner city "yout" trying to turn my life around...  one "g" two "oo's" like NPH's 80's era TV show.  

 

If you have to ask your buddy if you are on fire, you are four to five seconds behind the "stop, drop and roll" power curve.

I would LOVE to find the 1911 that I took to OIF I/III.  Not only did we replace all the important parts, but we received it as a Match grade (for competition) Colt.  Those that wanted to carry a 1911 could go in and pick through the tri-walled box full.  I picked up probably 10 or 12 before settling on the "one".  In the end, after about $400+ worth of parts (Wilson: trigger, slide stop, hammer, beaver tail safety; night sights, springs; hell, it was probably a good deal more than $400, and I paid for it all out of pocket since Todd didn't have the inventory yet) , it actually became a pretty nice shooting pistol. We sent our armorer to C&S and he actually became REALLY good at the work.  That's really the ONLY one that I would want to find.  All others?  Not really feeling it.  I saw what we got (over 1000 when all was said and done) and MOST of them were worn out rattle traps.  One way that guys put them to use was to buy a Caspian slide and have Todd fit it (and barrel) to the lower receiver. 

 

As a side note, in the boxes we received, we DID get Singer's and Rand's and Springfield and USS and others.  Those in the KNOW knew what some of those pistols were worth, BUT, there was NO way to "get" those pistols for private ownership, so what was more important to us than rarity was dependability.


If it's a Pain in the Ass....you're doing it WRONG

I don't make policy, only suggestions, take them as such.

 

Joined: 8/5/05    Location: 20 miles west of Gettysburg, PA

 

 

Originally Posted by Cytez:

I would LOVE to find the 1911 that I took to OIF I/III.  Not only did we replace all the important parts, but we received it as a Match grade (for competition) Colt.  Those that wanted to carry a 1911 could go in and pick through the tri-walled box full.  I picked up probably 10 or 12 before settling on the "one".  In the end, after about $400+ worth of parts (Wilson: trigger, slide stop, hammer, beaver tail safety; night sights, springs; hell, it was probably a good deal more than $400, and I paid for it all out of pocket since Todd didn't have the inventory yet) , it actually became a pretty nice shooting pistol. We sent our armorer to C&S and he actually became REALLY good at the work.  That's really the ONLY one that I would want to find.  All others?  Not really feeling it.  I saw what we got (over 1000 when all was said and done) and MOST of them were worn out rattle traps.  One way that guys put them to use was to buy a Caspian slide and have Todd fit it (and barrel) to the lower receiver. 

 

As a side note, in the boxes we received, we DID get Singer's and Rand's and Springfield and USS and others.  Those in the KNOW knew what some of those pistols were worth, BUT, there was NO way to "get" those pistols for private ownership, so what was more important to us than rarity was dependability.

Out of sheer curiosity, what was the overall condition of the Springfield, Switch&Signal, and Singer if you recall? Collector wise...not shooting wise. Did they appear all original or arsenal rebuilds? Sorry, but I think that is just fascinating!

To be honest, at the time, I wasn't looking for collectability.  My understanding was, they were arsenal "rebuilds".  Basically, all we did was pick them up, cycle them once (to check for ammo and "dislodge" them) and then shake them.  We wanted SOME rattling (as they would be more forgiving to sand and dust) but not TOO much.  They were never meant to be .5 MOA pistols, but fighting pistols we could rely on.  Only after finding one that didn't rattle TOO much, did we then check them for "names" etc.  It just so happened that the one that I chose was a Colt.  IIRC, most had matching slides/lower receivers, but that was about as far as I got to worrying about stuff like that.  I DO remember Todd talking about some of the barrels being pretty high end (and un-"original") that they had installed for competition. 

 

My FEELING is, MOST of those guns were pretty shot out by the time we got a hold of them, and would be even worse today.  In OIF III, I was one of the few that was running a 1911 where I was at (to the great dismay/envy of some).  There were months that I was running 500 +/- rounds a week through that gun.  At 10 yds, I could keep 50 rounds in a 3" circle (doing various drills like transitions and controlled pairs) if I was doing my part.  That pistol served ME well, I wish I could get a hold of it.


If it's a Pain in the Ass....you're doing it WRONG

I don't make policy, only suggestions, take them as such.

 

Joined: 8/5/05    Location: 20 miles west of Gettysburg, PA

 

 

During DS/DS I was on AD at Warrior Training Command.

All Marines/ Sailors who were armed with a pistol received a 1911A1 and a box of 50 rds when they departed (after 12 hrs, 750 rds training.)
No M9's were used.

All of the guns came out of USMC stocks were from MCLB Albany GA and MCLB Barstow CA.

All of the guns were fresh rebuilds by the armorers at the issuing facility.
At the end of 6 months, and with the exception of one front sight which fell off the slide, we had no issues.

We wound up with the MGySgt who was responsible for that program, and he was rightfully proud of the work that his Marines performed on those 1911A1's.

Different times, and cultures.




There's been a lot of inflation since then - a silver dollar was still worth a dollar I believe - not 20 something.  Still, I'd be very happy to buy a 1911 (or a carbine) for $400.

This is our purpose: to make as meaningful as possible this life that has been bestowed upon us; to live in such a way that we may be proud of ourselves; to act in such a way that some part of us lives on. What we need is not freedom of the press, we need freedom FROM the press Oswald Spengler

Originally Posted by Pat _Rogers:

A long time ago, CMP was selling 1911A1's for $17.00
M1 Carbines were $20.
M1 Rifles were $65

I wish there was a dislike button just for this. Every now and then, my chief likes to tell me about the good old days of cheaply priced mil-surp guns that he ordered out of magazines. I was born in the wrong decade!

"As the modest collector that I am"

 

Understatement of the year so far. I would ove to add another 1911 to my 1911 collection, currently holding at 1. I have a Colt 1918 model currently.

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -You have never lived until you have almost died. For those who have fought for it , life has a special flavor the protected will never know.

 

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 Location: Georgia

I cannot imagine the current administration signing off on this, and I don't see a 2/3 majority override.  The cries of "blood in the streets" however hysterical, nonsensical, and shrill will drown out logic.  Would the executive branch use the cry "for the children" while shutting down DOD?  I believe so.

_________________________

In yon strait path a thousand
May well be stopped by three.
Now who will stand on either hand,

And keep the bridge with me?

 

It'll never be allowed.

 

But a man can dream.  

“One sometimes gets the impression that the mere words ‘Socialism’ and ‘Communism’ draw towards them with magnetic force every fruit-juice drinker, nudist, sandal-wearer, sex-maniac, Quaker, ‘Nature Cure’ quack, pacifist, and feminist in England,”  -George Orwell-

I have a 1944 Colt through DRMO. I hope this means there may develop a way I can finally somehow keep it when I retire or change agencies. We've gotten history together, and I am dreading the day I have to turn it in someday.

"You have a duty to evaluate the effectiveness of your intervention!" Doc Spears Alliance OH 2012 www.10-32solutions.com Eruditio Venit Superessendam

My dad always tells me stories of how in the late 60's you could buy a GI 1911 for $25 which always seems so cheap.  He also pointed out that $ 25 was a working mans weekly salary back then to put it in perspective.  He has a mint all original GI 1911a1 made by Colt in Feb of 1944, the same month he was born.  What I'd give to have a time machine.
Originally Posted by aegis305:

Coincidentally, I'm with the head of the CMP at an Army conference.....I'll see if I can gather some intel re their plans for the .45s.

CMP head indicates that there is a 50/50 chance this will become a reality.  Lots of bureaucratic resistance and the amendment may still be stripped from the authorization act.  Even if it passes, CMP will still be dependent on Army action to bring it to fruition...and they're a little busy these days with other things.

Hopefully they set aggressive purchase limits, if it comes to fruition, in order to keep the dealers/resellers in check.

The goal should be to get guns into the hands of as many American shooters as possible, at reasonable cost, while funding marksmanship programs...since that's part of CMP's original mission.

"Hope is not a course of action" - A. "Bucket" Pryor

Yeah, I would love to have one.  Just as the M1 Garand I am getting this summer is not going to be a training or HD gun, an older M1911 isn't going to be a carry piece.  It will be part of my 'American Heritage' collection, just because.

 

Tankersteve

In Yorktown, VA.          Joined August 2008

Gov't Civilian, after retiring from active duty in 2015. 

 

'One's own open sore never smells.'  - Haitian proverb

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