quote:
Originally posted by jcustisredux:
quote:
Originally posted by P2Sys:
quote:
Originally posted by jcustisredux:
HOly ginormous photos Batman!

Can you resize and upload those again? They are so large I can't see the entire picture at once.

Do you have a demo video of the functional aspects of the pack?


Pics resized and uploaded.

We do not have any video yet. That doesn't normally happen until the design has been finalized and the item has gone into production.

Are there any specific questions you have?


I'm trying to get a sense of how the inside works/is organized.

It looks like you are pushing the center of gravity out there with that docked pack. That;s getting close to 6 channels wide. Is it going to be standard with the pack as part of a system, or is is just an example of what can be done with add-on pouches.


The inside is currently arranged in a manner similar to a med pack--two large vertical Velcro strips that different size mesh bags affix to. This arrangement allows for better organization and less shifting of the contents.

You are absolutely right about the center of gravity getting out there with the docked pouch. Another issue, of course, is the bulk factor--kind of defeats the point of having a small pack, if you're not going to be able to maintain your maneuverability with it. Honestly, that, along with several other pouches (not shown in these photos) were produced merely as a proof on concept. When I and others have run this pack operationally, only the main pouch has been utilized.

Regards-
Responses again below in red.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Desert01:
Got it.

I like the main pouch/pack size as well as you can tell in a photo.

Good to hear.

If you have to hump a radio can you move the bladder from the body side to the outer side of the main bag?

Yes, but a necessary point of clarification should be made here: The bladder actually integrates (inside of) the mounting platform. If you don't want it there, you can simply mount one of any of the MOLLE hydration pouches to the outside of the pack.

I think Jon has it right. The outer pouch is two fat, maybe make it only one PALS thick vs two. Maybe only instead of pals on the side a pouch that would hold a popflare or suppressor, that would make it what four pals wide?

Yeah, that would probably work out a lot better.

Is that a Mantiple or a Cohort in the picture? I’d be interested in the MOLLE platform going to the bottom of a Mantiple (since I’m using one). I’d like to continue exploring this “Mission Module” ideal of mine. If I could pack a CLS/240 Ammo pouch type bag under the main pack it would allow you to access those contents without opening the main bag. Lioke this:


It's a Maniple. I really like your Mission Module idea, and think it would integrate seamlessly with our design, with just a few slight mods. I think all we would have to do is lengthen the mounting platform and split the main pouch into two--the larger on top, the smaller on bottom to closely emulate what you've laid out.

Interested, but maybe not required that the MOLLE platform has stays in it to keep the pack from bulging in the center.

Certainly hasn't been an issue with the current size, but if it becomes one when we lengthen it, it won't be an issue to add a stay to the mounting platform as there is already an available internal pocket to place it in.

What provisions do you foresee for internal organization? Velcro moveable pockets, fixed pockets or just loose inside?

Different sized zipper-opening mesh bags, attached to the inside of the pouch with Velcro.

Will you include a grab handle? Pretty common requirement for about a hundred different applications.

Yes, to the mounting platform only.

Pockets on the sides like on bootcats pack is also an interesting ideal with a lot of different applications. My “office pack” has similar pockets that I use everyday.

It would not be hard to integrate such a thing into our current design and still preserve its integrity. There are obviously a number of commercial packs that also have this feature.

Can the outer pouch also be used as a beavertail?

Yes, but there is another way a similar function could be accomplished within the confines of the current design: The straps that hold the main pouch to the mounting platform can also work like those on an old ALICE or 782 buttpack, where snivel gear, etc. can be rolled-up and cinched down in them.

If that wasn't adequate for what was required, then the hook and loop pocket that holds the bottom/waist straps could receive the hook-ups for a clip-style beavertail.

Regards-
quote:
Originally posted by krax:
P2Sys, I like the look of it. One thing that would hold that design back (for me) would be if the panel wasn't tall enough to mount an Eagle MAP or your average MOLLE hydration pouch.

Those pictures are pretty good, but the attachment to the vest is hidden by the model's arms.


The original length was determined by mating the pack with our smallest armor carrier, a Velites-I. We didn't want to extend the pack below the total length of that carrier, for what should hopefully be obvious reasons.

However, since a year's worth of experience and feedback with it has seemed to indicate that a slightly longer pack would be a lot more useful to the greater number of interested users, I am almost certainly going to lengthen it to a point that will accomodate the items you have mentioned as well.

A teammate of mine picked one of these up at ISAF the other day: http://www.military1st.co.uk/1...german-tropical.html

If the center compartment were removed, or at least cinched down all the way with the compression straps, it seems like it would be about the perfect size for the application we're discussing.

The final total dimensions for the mounting platform/main pouch (one or two pieces) I am currently hovering around are probably going to be somewhere around 18"L x 9"W x 4.5"T

Here is a pic that shows the manner it which it is attached to the armor:



I have tried a number of different mounting systems, and for the current-sized pack, nothing has worked as well or been as clean a solution as the QASM buckles with Down Range Gear vertical connector straps. This may change for the larger pack, but I won't know for sure, until the new pack has been built and thoroughly tested.

Regards-
quote:
Originally posted by Bootcat:
quote:
Originally posted by Desert01:
Bootcat,

Would those side pockets also hold a M-72? with a securing strap like a compression strap higher up?


I confirm that the M-72 fits the side pouch. The compression strap holds it securely.

P2Sys, nice pack, and I am jealous of the picture quality!


Thank you, Bootcat--you've built something really nice as well!
quote:
Originally posted by P2Sys:
Responses again below in red.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Desert01:
Can the outer pouch also be used as a beavertail?

Yes, but there is another way a similar function could be accomplished within the confines of the current design: The straps that hold the main pouch to the mounting platform can also work like those on an old ALICE or 782 buttpack, where snivel gear, etc. can be rolled-up and cinched down in them.

If that wasn't adequate for what was required, then the hook and loop pocket that holds the bottom/waist straps could receive the hook-ups for a clip-style beavertail.

Regards-


Got it. When used with a longer pack this may reenforce the need for the stays depending on a few things. Would an alternate way to do this be to have a tail that the compression straps route though?
quote:
Originally posted by Desert01:
quote:
Originally posted by P2Sys:
Responses again below in red.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Desert01:
Can the outer pouch also be used as a beavertail?

Yes, but there is another way a similar function could be accomplished within the confines of the current design: The straps that hold the main pouch to the mounting platform can also work like those on an old ALICE or 782 buttpack, where snivel gear, etc. can be rolled-up and cinched down in them.

If that wasn't adequate for what was required, then the hook and loop pocket that holds the bottom/waist straps could receive the hook-ups for a clip-style beavertail.

Regards-


Got it. When used with a longer pack this may reenforce the need for the stays depending on a few things. Would an alternate way to do this be to have a tail that the compression straps route though?


Yeah, that may be the case about the stays.

As for the compression straps running through the tail, that could easily be done, but I'm not sure it would offer the same benefits as the more typical arrangement. I suppose it would depend on what you were trying to lash.

Regards--
Working with my idea of an optimized assault pack loadout, I tried working up the features I'd like to see in a true assault pack.

In no particular order:

Detachable shoulder straps and quick disconnects that allow the pack to mate directly to armor. The direct attachment system needs to allow for the pack to be un-clipped, swung to the front, and returned to the back for re-attachment. I am not stuck on this feature, however, as being an essential must-have...yet. I'd have to work with an example a bit to make up my mind.

Top carry strap to allow it to be clipped into a tie-down point on a vehicle if not in use and worn.

2 channels x 6 rows of PALS on the sides, to allow for aerial pyro, silencer, hand smoke, Nalgene carrier, and M4 mag pouches.

Side (underarm routing) and top ports for hydration tubes and/or antennae, PTTs, handsets, etc..

No taller than the standard issued PCs, and certainly no wider.

12" x 12" x 3.5" utility pouch to allow for carriage of M18A1 APERS, 200 rd M249 drum, HIIDE device or TSE kit components. This would probably be better off as a section of the main compartment, since trying to stabilize the weight of these items on the beavertail could be problematic. Horizontal compression strap inside this pouch to allow for items to be secured.

Admin slot for notebook, pens, compass, miniature binos/monocular, GPS, NOD, etc.

Beavertail that allows for carriage of larger items such as a jacket, captured items, etc.

Bottom compression straps to allow for securing soft items such as a Ranger roll.

PALS across the front in a standard matrix.

Stays to allow for it to be conformed to the curve of the back plate.

Under $125.00. Start at that price point and work backwards, deleting features as required to stay under the ceiling.

If Eagle (hint, hint) ran PALS on the sides of the Yote, I think it would be the closest pack in existence to match the form and fit I'm thinking about.

It is better that they do it imperfectly than that you do it perfectly. For it is their war and their country and your time here is limited.

 

                                                                                                                        —T. E. Lawrence

 

 

POSREP: UAE

quote:
If Eagle (hint, hint) ran PALS on the sides of the Yote, I think it would be the closest pack in existence to match the form and fit I'm thinking about.

This.

I love my Yote, but a "Gen II" Yote would have, in my perfect world:
-MOLLE on the sides instead of the pockets (keep the slots behind it)
-MOLLE on the front instead of the pocket (four columns by 5-6 rows)
-Carry handle
-Another horizontal compression strap IOT lash long-ish items to the sides

Tyr's Assaulter's Sustainment pack is really damn close and I may have to bite the $199 bullet to find out.

 

Know what you know; Know what you don't know. -Paul Petzoldt

quote:
Originally posted by jcustisredux:
Working with my idea of an optimized assault pack loadout, I tried working up the features I'd like to see in a true assault pack.

In no particular order:

Detachable shoulder straps and quick disconnects that allow the pack to mate directly to armor. The direct attachment system needs to allow for the pack to be un-clipped, swung to the front, and returned to the back for re-attachment. I am not stuck on this feature, however, as being an essential must-have...yet. I'd have to work with an example a bit to make up my mind.

Top carry strap to allow it to be clipped into a tie-down point on a vehicle if not in use and worn.

2 channels x 6 rows of PALS on the sides, to allow for aerial pyro, silencer, hand smoke, Nalgene carrier, and M4 mag pouches.

Side (underarm routing) and top ports for hydration tubes and/or antennae, PTTs, handsets, etc..

No taller than the standard issued PCs, and certainly no wider.

12" x 12" x 3.5" utility pouch to allow for carriage of M18A1 APERS, 200 rd M249 drum, HIIDE device or TSE kit components. This would probably be better off as a section of the main compartment, since trying to stabilize the weight of these items on the beavertail could be problematic. Horizontal compression strap inside this pouch to allow for items to be secured.

Admin slot for notebook, pens, compass, miniature binos/monocular, GPS, NOD, etc.

Beavertail that allows for carriage of larger items such as a jacket, captured items, etc.

Bottom compression straps to allow for securing soft items such as a Ranger roll.

PALS across the front in a standard matrix.

Stays to allow for it to be conformed to the curve of the back plate.

Under $125.00. Start at that price point and work backwards, deleting features as required to stay under the ceiling.

If Eagle (hint, hint) ran PALS on the sides of the Yote, I think it would be the closest pack in existence to match the form and fit I'm thinking about.


I really like what you've proposed here. I think we can take care of you on most of this, brother. Give us a month or two.

Regards--
Oh, and the side connection system really needs some decent ergonomics, not just a JV strap that's "good enough".

It is better that they do it imperfectly than that you do it perfectly. For it is their war and their country and your time here is limited.

 

                                                                                                                        —T. E. Lawrence

 

 

POSREP: UAE

I had the chance to finally handle one of the Ares Combat XII packs tonight. The first odd thing is that the outside bottom ute pouch zipper opens with an upward movement, meaning you might have ti be ready to catch things as they drop out. The short main compartment zipper is a compromise for sure, considering the side PALs.

It is better that they do it imperfectly than that you do it perfectly. For it is their war and their country and your time here is limited.

 

                                                                                                                        —T. E. Lawrence

 

 

POSREP: UAE

I think this is very close to what I see as a great "Day" pack for patrol. I like simple and this is pretty close to as simple as it gets. Its a little over the price point as mentioned above. A few small MR "Cells" could make organizing a snap. For .mil customers I wonder if they would consider adding a pocket to fit an ASIP Radio and some sort of cable/hydro routeing holes at the top, almost a requirement for any military patrol pack. This of course makes the nalgene bottle holder's of less importance but still relevant IMHO. Not sure how many guys run Nalgene bottles down range but it might be a good idea considering the relative durability of bottle water and some camelback bladders.

As far as Admin items, the Kit Bag interfaces with the shoulder harness, thus cutting down the possible need to take the pack on and off to get at small stuff. But that push's it over the alloted dollar amount. Only issue I see with that is interference with quick-release functions (but hopefully the end user would be smart enough to disconnect the pack if crossing a water hazard for easy doffing). I would say a stiffener might be needed in the bag, not only for non-armor use, but also to keep it flat faced against the back plate of the armor system the user might be wearing.

Hill People Gear "Tarahumara" pack-

Military Moron Review-
http://www.militarymorons.com/...ment/packs5.html#hpg

Really surprised that MR decided to not go with the Spartan pack design. Seems like the design many of us are wishing for out of a day pack. I'm actually kind of curious why it was dropped after SHOT 2011. It seemed like the best fit to fill a lot of various missions (I know I would have bought one).

Thoughts? I might just get one when I sell the ARES Gear pack of mine.

Cheers, Matt

"It is easy to go down into Hell; night and day, the gates of dark Death stand wide; but to climb back again, to retrace one's steps to the upper air - there's the rub, the task."    Publius Vergilius Maro, The Aeneid

Virgil, what's your day patrol loadout requirement list look like?

And is it just me, or are they using a pic of the movie Red Dawn as a watermark?

It is better that they do it imperfectly than that you do it perfectly. For it is their war and their country and your time here is limited.

 

                                                                                                                        —T. E. Lawrence

 

 

POSREP: UAE

jcustisredux- On the Ares, I agree with you on all counts (I have one, wasn't very impressed). About all I could fit in that pouch on the top is a VS-17, chem lights, and a log of Cope.


Standard patrol list is a bit of a hard topic to tackle. It really depends on what I am going for in regards to mission. For a normal, walking around combat patrol it stays pretty normal, but changes slightly due to weather. Here is what an a typical load out looks for me when I'm playing basic Infantry TL/SL.

Day Pack-
2 Spare M4 Magazines
1 Basic M4 Cleaning kit (A few cleaning rods, lube, and a boresnake w/rag. This might change slightly depending on what I'm carrying.)
1 C&S/LZ Kit
-Red Smoke or Signal Flare
-VS-17 Panel
-9 Line Medevac Card
-Chem Light buzz Saws (IR and Vis)
-Freq Card (I'm retarded and I try and mitigate having to think to hard about small stuff when shit goes sideways).
1 Medical Kit (From Extra Tramua supplies to boo-boo's, keep in mind I'm not a medic and don't have much medical trauma experiance beyond usual army training, thus I took the "important" stuff for my skill level and meant to augment and act as a mini-CLS load).
-2 Additional Trauma Dressings
-2 Additional Combat Gauze
-2 CAT or SOF-T Tourniquets
-2 Guaze
-Boo-Boo Kit, Basic Topical Antibiotic, Hand sanitizer,
-2/4 Quarts Water (Again mission and weather dependant, either in Nalgene bottles or a Source Bladder).
-Basic E&E/Survival Kit (these can be had very small. About the only few things I would add would be to make sure I have a water proof method of making fire AND stock up on the iodine pills).
-Extra Batteries (load out dependant on what me and my squad are carrying).

That would be the basic load I would take almost anywere. A lot of it can be broken down and put inside ones kit. However, I've always been a "one is none, two is one" kind of person (within reason, that can get excessive most ricky tick). Again, a lot of it is weather dependant. If its going to rain or is raining, water proofing the pack is muey importanta as well as taking extra clothing (socks/T-shirts) and possibley space enough for Gortex or a soft shell of some sort, hopefully top and botton.

Cheers, Matt

"It is easy to go down into Hell; night and day, the gates of dark Death stand wide; but to climb back again, to retrace one's steps to the upper air - there's the rub, the task."    Publius Vergilius Maro, The Aeneid

Yeah, for the most part the basics are the same. Some of what you have is actually balanced between my 1st and 2nd line for now.

The VS-17 can be a beast, if you use a full one like most folks really need, since the cut-down patches a lot of folks run around with are pretty worthless for actually getting a helo driver's attention. I carry a VS-5 now, which has been discussed here before as a Pathfinder marking tool.

It is better that they do it imperfectly than that you do it perfectly. For it is their war and their country and your time here is limited.

 

                                                                                                                        —T. E. Lawrence

 

 

POSREP: UAE

Never seen a vs 5. I use a rolled up vs 17 with cleaning rods on the corners for easy deployment and so I don't have to Chase it across a field when the bird lands.

Cheers, Matt

"It is easy to go down into Hell; night and day, the gates of dark Death stand wide; but to climb back again, to retrace one's steps to the upper air - there's the rub, the task."    Publius Vergilius Maro, The Aeneid

Interesting development just poped on Soldier Systems from Mayflower.
quote:
The Back Panel attaches directly to the rear of a vest or other platform and incorporates two pouches with the bottom one being a rapidly deployable medical pouch. The top pouch is fixed and is sized around the SOCOM issue NOD sleeve. The med pouch has handles and is attached to the panel via Velcro along with a backup strap system. This allows your team mate to easily remove the med pouch from your back. This pouch can also be particularly useful for breaching, medical, or SSE. In fact, the utility of the Back Panel is only limited by your imagination. Look for additional pouch options in the future.

From the Mayflower site:


quote:
Assault Back Panel Type 1
The Assault Back Panel Type 1 is designed to carry the minimum amount of kit for a short duration dismounted mission. The main body is designed to carry a 50-70 oz water bladder; the upper zippered pouch is designed to hold the SOCOM issued NVG protective insert, the bottom pouch is designed as a re-moveable medical pouch. The re-moveable medical pouch features internal elastic retainers and a flat Velcro external pouch. All workmanship is 100% made in the USA.
PRICE: $170.00


Looks like they havemade my concept a reality, so maybe I was not smoking crack.


Now i need to find someone from there to needle into sending me one in coyote
Looks like they made something that answers the kind of requirement I would like as well.

24 Hour Assault Pack


Seems to be two differant camps in this thread- Direct to Armor and Shoulder Straps.

While I realize that I will always have a buddy there to dig shit out for me, there are times I wouldn't want to have to ask someone to grab something in a hurry or an emergency.

Cheers, Matt

"It is easy to go down into Hell; night and day, the gates of dark Death stand wide; but to climb back again, to retrace one's steps to the upper air - there's the rub, the task."    Publius Vergilius Maro, The Aeneid

quote:
Originally posted by Virgil:
Seems to be two differant camps in this thread- Direct to Armor and Shoulder Straps.

While I realize that I will always have a buddy there to dig shit out for me, there are times I wouldn't want to have to ask someone to grab something in a hurry or an emergency.


I'm in the middle of the two, and I think most are also. I don't want to have to use the shoulder straps, but I want to be able to detach a direct to vest system like the Aries or P2SYS/Hardpoint system does. I don't want to be beholding to a buddy.
I wonder what the Mayflower folks envisioned for the 24 hr bag packing list.

There's something to be said for the aesthetics though; bag looks good.

It is better that they do it imperfectly than that you do it perfectly. For it is their war and their country and your time here is limited.

 

                                                                                                                        —T. E. Lawrence

 

 

POSREP: UAE

jcustisredux- You have to take in to consideration the "niche" role of some of these products, specifically with Mayflower. Very Assaulter focused with the timeline of mission being very fast paced.

Cheers, Matt

"It is easy to go down into Hell; night and day, the gates of dark Death stand wide; but to climb back again, to retrace one's steps to the upper air - there's the rub, the task."    Publius Vergilius Maro, The Aeneid

Check rog about the pedigree of the products and the companies that make them. I hold no illusions that the guys who are going to either buy or be issued something like a Mayflower RC 24-hour Assault Pack are going to be doing a lot of dismounted "walking", as compared to rolling hard hits across the course of a night, which is still moto.

I've been a pretty close observer over the years of how manufacturers describe their gear, in words and pictures, and I've always been struck by the peculiar way a lot of companies just don't do their gear justice.

A series of pictures are what, 20-30 minutes to do? Show me every angle. Open all the pouches, pockets, and slots and show me the layout. Show me the stitching, and where the hydration and comm ports are located, and how the openings are secured. Don't make me freaking guess. I suppose they can get away with that sort of advertising model because they have a ton of contract work, or expect that their hottest new piece of gear is going to find its way into the hands of Military Moron, Soldier Systems, or some semi-rational yahoo who can push a youtube video, but it's like Hollywood being lazy with realism during military-themed flicks...you can kinda get away with it, but why?

It is better that they do it imperfectly than that you do it perfectly. For it is their war and their country and your time here is limited.

 

                                                                                                                        —T. E. Lawrence

 

 

POSREP: UAE

Ditto- I've lost count of how many "can you please give me more pictures of..." I've encounted a lot of gear that I think looks great and I find it doesn't quite measure up or doesn't fit what I want once I get my grubby mitts on it.

I've also been surprised and amazed with some of the stuff I've gotten over the years. Thats the stuff I ususally end up keeping.

Cheers, Matt

"It is easy to go down into Hell; night and day, the gates of dark Death stand wide; but to climb back again, to retrace one's steps to the upper air - there's the rub, the task."    Publius Vergilius Maro, The Aeneid

quote:
Originally posted by krax:
quote:
I wonder what the Mayflower folks envisioned for the 24 hr bag packing list.

You don't think your packing list from earlier in the thread would fit?


It looks like it might, but it would be wayyyy tight. It looks to be a little narrow compared to other offerings, like the SORD HEL, but just like the HEL, Id probably have to drop the ranger roll/poncho.

ETA: Has anyone had the chance to get their hands on a SORD HEL and wring it out?

It is better that they do it imperfectly than that you do it perfectly. For it is their war and their country and your time here is limited.

 

                                                                                                                        —T. E. Lawrence

 

 

POSREP: UAE

I've been meaning to post in this thread for a while, because its definitely given me food for thought about how I carry most of the Combat Service Support kit into the field.

I'm going to start with the packing list for each pack, then expand on each afterwards, and hopefully I can make the thoughts swimming around my head coherent to others. I've split this up into 4 categories, 1 Day Assault Pack (DAP), 3 DAP, Field Pack, and Field Pack (FOB)

1 Day Assault Pack

1 Pair Socks
1 1/2 Days Rations
Lightweight Goretex
Parasilk shirt
Watch Cap
2 Emergency Foil Blankets
3 Litre Camelbak
1 Litre Nalgene
Batteries as appropriate for 36 hours
Team Kit - link, magazines, ammo on stripper clips, grenades, 66mm rocket etc

3 DAP

3 Days Rations
3 Pairs Socks
1 Pair Antimicrobial Underwear
Goretex socks and foot powder
Lightweight Goretex
Lightweight warm layering jacket
Goretex Bivvi Bag
Jungle weight sleeping bag
Thermarest rollmat
2 Emergency Foil Blankets
3 Litre Camelbak
2 Nalgene bottles
Watch Cap and Shemagh
Field Wash kit (toothbrush, toothpaste, hand sanitizer, wet wipes)
4 Wag Bags
Rifle Cleaning Kit
117 Radio & Ancils as appropriate
Batteries as appropriate
Team kit as appropriate (again, Link, Magazines, 66, 40mm Grenades, Claymore etc etc)

Field Pack
1 DAP under lid
4 Pairs socks
2 Pairs underwear
Goretex socks & foot powder
Spare pants, shirt & combat shirt / UBACS
Buffalo warming layer
Poncho with bungees and paracord/comms cord
Goretex Bivvi Bag
Sleeping bag appropriate to weather
Rollmat
Field washkit
Wag bags x 10
E-tool depending on terrain
3 Litre Camelbak
2 Nalgene bottles
Rations, Radio, Batteries, Team Kit, all as appropriate

Field Pack (FOB)
Para Bag, clearly labelled
Spare footwear – Flip flops and trainers
Spare clothing – uniform, t-shirts and civvies (depending on unit SOPs in FOBs)
Towel & Full sized washkit
Laundry bag and washing powder
iPod, iPad, Laptop, Kindle etc etc with chargers
Spare headtorch

So with that lengthy list out of the way, what does all that mean?
First, the 1 DAP. I see this being used for daily ground domination patrols, in addition to DA, short duration missions. In this case, I can see the flexible “team kit” packing list to be fairly light – maybe 100 rounds of 7.62 link, or 200 of 5.56. Possibly a couple of spare frags, extra 40mm grenades or a 66mm rocket. Depends completely on the mission. A larger radio has been left out of the list on purpose, the majority of missions this smaller pack is designed for will be in range of body mounted radios for the most part – obviously signallers and commanders will plan accordingly

This pack should be as small and as lightweight as possible, and there is some flex in the packing list – for example, going on a morning Ground Dominating patrol for COIN ops in a Helmand summer, ditch the goretex, bring more water and/or ammo

This packing list should easily sustain you should you head out the door on a patrol and due to contact, casualties, etc, being unable to return to base for a 24-36 hour period

Packs to be used for this – certainly the ATS Cobra, even run completely slick, will swallow all of this up. I’m going to be experimenting with using the Ares Combat pack and an Eagle Industries Modular Assault pack, in both direct to armour and shoulder strap modes. I am aware that extra external pouches may be required.

Skipping onto the Field Pack, I’ve run this to integrate with the 1 DAP. Nothing in the DAP and field pack doubles up – no carrying of goretex in both packs for instance. The only possible overlap is the parasilk shirt in the 1 DAP and the Buffalo in the Field pack, but the parasilk shirt weighs literally grams. The whole idea is to carry the whole thing, then when you get closer to the objective, leave the packs at the FRV and just take the 1 DAP onto target with you. Obviously, if you’re halfway up a mountain getting in heavy contact, ditch the big pack and grab the smaller pack out of it as you bug out

Team kit in the field pack is generally heavier – a claymore etc. It is in addition to whats in the 1 DAP

Again, there is flex in the packing list. If you’re scaling mountains, are you going to need an entrenching tool? Will you need spare pants, or can you save a few ounces by going without? If the weather forecast is clear, do you need a goretex bivvi bag?

This pack is designed for fixed duration long excursions, or possibly even more extended operations with a resupply chain. This will be heavy, but it is everything you need to be completely self sufficient for as long as your mission entails.

I use a British Issue (obviously) Infantry bergan for this pack, with extra pouches sewn onto the outside for extra load carrying capacity. I’ve also ordered a MALICE 2 from Tactical Tailor during their Black Friday sale, I’m going to run that through its paces. I’d like to try something from Kifaru or Mystery Ranch in this category, but not on my wages I won’t be

Leading onto the Field Pack (FOB), I’ve included some extra bits to make life easier in a FOB, PB, CP or whatever. These will really send the weight of the pack up drastically, but they are designed to be left behind and never taken into the field. The Para Bag is marked up so you can strip all the extras out of your pack, lock it in an ISO container, and head out into the field

This leaves the 3 DAP. This has been a bit of a dilemma, for me personally. I’ve tried several packs for this, the Eagle 3 Day, Mystery Ranch 3 Day, and I’ve felt that all have been a bit of compromise. I’ve settled on something I mothballed as soon as I was issued it – the Karrimor SF Brit Issue “45 Litre Infantry Bergan”. Its got loads of strapping all over it, but it works in this role. I could also see a Kifaru Zulu fulfilling this role quite nicely, although I’ve never played with one. It could potentially be too large

I see the 3 Day role as being Air assault ops – flown in, patrolling to a known point, flown out. Or flown in, hold an area until relieved. This means being as self sufficient as possible, with personal kit being as small as possible to allow heavier team kit such as Radios, claymores and extra explosives to be carried. Rations, water, radios and ammo are key here, with personal kit, such as sleeping systems, water/cold proof clothing and socks and foot powder being the flex in the packing list, in that order. Small-ish rucksacks that will fit with you inside a Chinook are the order of the day

As it stands, all the kit in my 3 DAP is doubled up with my 1 DAP – they are in effect, 2 different packs. I could pick up my 1 DAP or my 3 DAP, and not have to cross deck any personal kit from one to the other. Radios, Batteries, Ammo etc, yes, but doubling up on the personal kit makes repacking kit a breeze. Its slightly more to carry during an admin move, but if that move is by Heli, its worth the extra effort.

As it stands at the moment, the majority of ops undertaken in Afghan consist of the following
- Short duration Ground Domination COIN patrols. Walking distance of a coalition base
- Direct Action, in and out within a night.
- 2\3\4 day Air assault ops, move and clear or hold until relieved
- Longer missions, OPs on top of mountains, requiring self sufficiency for as long as possible
From my point of view, the way I’ve broken my support kit down allows for varying degrees of separation from the mother base, and allowing self sufficiency for as much as is possible with the mission and common sense.

I just spent ages typing that, somebody please tell me it made sense...

__________________________

It did make sense, and thanks for taking the time to provide a coalition perspective.

It is better that they do it imperfectly than that you do it perfectly. For it is their war and their country and your time here is limited.

 

                                                                                                                        —T. E. Lawrence

 

 

POSREP: UAE

quote:
Originally posted by jcustisredux:


A series of pictures are what, 20-30 minutes to do? Show me every angle. Open all the pouches, pockets, and slots and show me the layout. Show me the stitching, and where the hydration and comm ports are located, and how the openings are secured. Don't make me freaking guess. I suppose they can get away with that sort of advertising model because they have a ton of contract work, or expect that their hottest new piece of gear is going to find its way into the hands of Military Moron, Soldier Systems, or some semi-rational yahoo who can push a youtube video, but it's like Hollywood being lazy with realism during military-themed flicks...you can kinda get away with it, but why?


I ALWAYS think the same thing, then I realized that if they did what we wanted they would probably lose sales. I can't count the number of things that I've bought that ended up not working out, and if there had been additional pictures or information I probably wouldn't have purchased it in the first place. That's my tinfoil hat theory anyways.

Seriously, if any company reps are watching this thread - take more pictures of your shit. At least tell me how much pals real estate your pouch is going to eat up.
________________________________ Do not pray for lighter loads; strive for stronger backs.
All that Roy, and companies shouldn't make bullshit but tell us it's the ultimate solution to X, because like you said, it usually isn't.

When I think of sites with decent picture layouts, I think of Emdom, Maxpedition, SKD Tactical. I've never purchased anything from them that I didn't want after receiving it.

I totally hear what you're saying about losing sales by showing it all though. Business models are going to need to be tightened up in the tac gear business across the next few years when Uncle Sugar, Joe, and Johnny stop spending those disposable $$$ in advance of deployments.

It is better that they do it imperfectly than that you do it perfectly. For it is their war and their country and your time here is limited.

 

                                                                                                                        —T. E. Lawrence

 

 

POSREP: UAE

Sooo... browsing through the SKD site for new gear. They tend to be very good about posting a lot of photos, thus I usually buy with confidence from them.

Anyway, eyeballing the Brigandine PC. Love the idea and it makes it accessible for those on a budget that want to run armor in a simple package, plus if that design is going the way I THINK it is based on the descriptions I'll be very intrigued.

Stumbled across this in one of the descriptions-
PIG gRUNT Modular PC Pack

Hopefully its a cross PC pack that will work with multiple platforms, but I'll be keeping an eye out for it. Really is a shame that MR didn't produce the Spartan.

Cheers, Matt

"It is easy to go down into Hell; night and day, the gates of dark Death stand wide; but to climb back again, to retrace one's steps to the upper air - there's the rub, the task."    Publius Vergilius Maro, The Aeneid

quote:
PIG gRUNT Modular PC Pack

Hopefully its a cross PC pack that will work with multiple platforms, but I'll be keeping an eye out for it. Really is a shame that MR didn't produce the Spartan.


The PIG gRUNT has me wondering as well.

What was the sort of promising capability that the Spartan held? I never had the chance to see it, and all I've ever caught shots of were the product model photo that was used during the contest to give it a name.

It is better that they do it imperfectly than that you do it perfectly. For it is their war and their country and your time here is limited.

 

                                                                                                                        —T. E. Lawrence

 

 

POSREP: UAE

For me I just appreciated the design as a day pack, with easy, quick access to the main pocket.

Easily big enough to fit an ASIP, which is somewhat of a barometer I use for packs in the "day/patrol" category. If it can fit an ASIP, then it can fit additional stuff based on your role in the team/platoon/squad. Ample molle on the sides to provide expansion or addition of special equipment pouches (Suppressor/PVS26).

Again, theorizing... I totally agree with both you and Roy's assesment... I would love more pictures on websites. Lack of actual product and pictures again kinda kills it for this. One thing I know I LOATH about many a day pack and why I kinda like the Hill Peolpe Gear pack and packs like the BFG's is the ability to open them completely clam shell or down the middle style to get at shit. I hate top loading packs, because inevitably what I need most ricky tick is at the bottom or has managed to shift there. Plus makes packing much much easier.

Cheers, Matt

"It is easy to go down into Hell; night and day, the gates of dark Death stand wide; but to climb back again, to retrace one's steps to the upper air - there's the rub, the task."    Publius Vergilius Maro, The Aeneid

Gents,

I've got the opportunity to try to get a prototype of an optimal assault pack built, but I need an assist.

This A-pack would need to mate properly to at least the current range of smallest plate carriers out there.

I'm thinking that means the KDH issued one, and the Eagle SPC for the Marines.

I'm also imagining the Eagle MBAV needs to be factored in, but what other plate carrier systems need to be considered?

Second question, can anyone produced the PALS array dimensional info for the back of the PCs listed so far, and any new one that gets mentioned? Besides the Marine SPC, I'd just be looking at crappy pictures to try to gauge the PALS dimensions and I need folks to post that info.

And as for radio carrying capacity, does it need to be able to carry an ASIP, or at least a PRC-117G at 13.5 inches? I originally figured PRC-152 spare batteries at a minimum were one of the objective capacity measurements and thought the radio should be considered to be on the wearer's front, but what of carrying an actual PRC-152, ASIP, or the 117G inside the small pack? I haven't handled a -117G yet to know the weight/space considerations, and whether it is just too big.

Thanks in advance.

It is better that they do it imperfectly than that you do it perfectly. For it is their war and their country and your time here is limited.

 

                                                                                                                        —T. E. Lawrence

 

 

POSREP: UAE

I can't help you, brother, but I am sure you will do a great job and we all will take benefits from it.

Keep us updated about your advances, please.

Joined: 30DEC08      Location: SPAIN

Take care, keep safe, stay frosty, brother!

tirotactico.net

quote:
Second question, can anyone produced the PALS array dimensional info for the back of the PCs listed so far, and any new one that gets mentioned? Besides the Marine SPC, I'd just be looking at crappy pictures to try to gauge the PALS dimensions and I need folks to post that info.

And as for radio carrying capacity, does it need to be able to carry an ASIP, or at least a PRC-117G at 13.5 inches? I originally figured PRC-152 spare batteries at a maximum were one of the objective capacity measurements and thought the radio should be considered to be on the wearer's front, but what of carrying an actual PRC-152, ASIP, or the 117G inside the small pack? I haven't handled a -117G yet to know the weight/space considerations, and whether it is just too big.


Anyone? Bueller?

It is better that they do it imperfectly than that you do it perfectly. For it is their war and their country and your time here is limited.

 

                                                                                                                        —T. E. Lawrence

 

 

POSREP: UAE

quote:
Originally posted by mercUSA:
Possibly, but I wonder if one of the Source bladders that fit in plate pockets would be a better fit in the HEL. Maybe Fatty will chime in on this.

mercUSA


I was fingering a SORD HEL 2 weeks ago, and yes, the Source LPS 2L, as well as the new ILPS and WLPS bladders fit in it like a glove.
quote:
Originally posted by jcustisredux:
quote:
Second question, can anyone produced the PALS array dimensional info for the back of the PCs listed so far, and any new one that gets mentioned? Besides the Marine SPC, I'd just be looking at crappy pictures to try to gauge the PALS dimensions and I need folks to post that info.

And as for radio carrying capacity, does it need to be able to carry an ASIP, or at least a PRC-117G at 13.5 inches? I originally figured PRC-152 spare batteries at a maximum were one of the objective capacity measurements and thought the radio should be considered to be on the wearer's front, but what of carrying an actual PRC-152, ASIP, or the 117G inside the small pack? I haven't handled a -117G yet to know the weight/space considerations, and whether it is just too big.


Anyone? Bueller?


YEs
it would be safe to assume in this day and age, that a PRC148/152 is carried on person, with a need for 2 spare batteries in the pack.

It would also be safe to assume space is needed for a -117. + a spare battery.

It would also be safe to assume that if you allocate space for a -117 that at least 50% of the population using a -117 these days has sometype of ruggedized laptop for TACP-CASS, TLDHS-StrikeLink, FOS components, etc. (i.e. JTACs or JFOs.)

That will change as/if -117s become more widely fielded for unit tactical comms.

--------------------------------------------------------------------

  • One Man's Fatwa is another Man's FRAGO. 
  • Two to the Heart, One to the Mind.
  • In Spiritu Et Veritate, Ad Logica Animo, Ad Hominem, Ad Captandum Vulgus.
  • BEHOLD, the LORD my GOD, who prepares my Hands for Battle and my Fingers for War! PSALMS 144:1
mercUSA[/QUOTE]

I was fingering a SORD HEL 2 weeks ago, and yes, the Source LPS 2L, as well as the new ILPS and WLPS bladders fit in it like a glove.[/QUOTE]

Can you elaborate on this a little? I'm thinking about picking one up, but I'm worried about how bulky it is on the back, i.e. not collapsing when wearing a ruck on top of it.

Common sense: so goddam rare, it should be a super power.

quote:
Originally posted by Ian0369:
mercUSA


I was fingering a SORD HEL 2 weeks ago, and yes, the Source LPS 2L, as well as the new ILPS and WLPS bladders fit in it like a glove.[/QUOTE]

Can you elaborate on this a little? I'm thinking about picking one up, but I'm worried about how bulky it is on the back, i.e. not collapsing when wearing a ruck on top of it.[/QUOTE]

I know for a fact that 3/75 has been using the 2L LPS operationally, with the bladders inserted into the rear plate pocket of their plate carriers, and will wear the ruck over top. Having interviewed quite a few guys from the battalion about how the 2L LPS bladder worked under a ruck, they said they could wear a pack pretty comfortably over top of the bladder, as well as sit in a vehicle without the typical 'sausage' you get going on with more traditional 3L hydration bladders.

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