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A little background, I spent 12 years an infantryman in the Marine Corps which gave me LOTS of time behind a fixed power optic, which I liked just fine other than the eye relief and 4x up close can be a PITA. And being shot down for 45* offsets with an Aimpoint, or even iron sights, was frustrating.  

I trained a bunch on my own with an Aimpoint, mostly because I didn’t want to spend what an ACOG cost then, and most of it transferred very easily to the ACOG/RCO.

I purchased a Primary Arms ACSS 1-6 to dip my toes in the LPVO world. I haven’t taken any classes with it, other than a couple impromptu 3 gun “classes” at and after local matches and so far I’ve been pretty happy with that scope, especially for being into the scope, switch lever and mount for just a hair over $300. 

So now I want to get a big kid LPVO, not a Pro LPVO, no way can I drop 3k on a CQBSS, ATACR or Swarovski. 

But 1500-2000 I think I can manage. 

I’m as regular a regular guy as they come anymore, this will be a fun gun, some 3 gun, some recreational mid range stuff, hopefully some classes from the likes of Buck Doyle, Defoor or any other LPVO proponents I haven’t heard of yet. But no HD use as I’m behind the curtain and our ARs have to be neutered to be “legal”

So, the question. 

On PAPER the SWFA SS 1-6 sounds awesome. It’s got a great looking reticle, the SS scopes have a reputation for quality and SWFA stands behind them AFAIK. 

How does it rank compared to the Vortex Razor HD GenII? 

Would it be money better spent to get a 1-8 like the NX8? 

Any other options I should be looking at? I want a durable scope, with a useable reticle, preferable a BDC and daylight bright. 

Thanks all

Original Post

I have an NX8, it’s good, I like it a lot. The Razor is very popular and all reports show it to be a good choice, it was on my list when I was deciding on a LPVO.  I’d also throw the Kahles K16i out as a solid choice for a “big kid” optic, this was my second choice of the 3. They all have their pros and cons but you’d probably be well served with any of them. 

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Take a look at the Vortex PST Gen 2 1-6x.  80% of the Vortex Razor at 1/2 the cost.  I've seen them being sold for @$600. 

Eotech apparently is coming out with a new 1-8x second focal plane in its Vudu line.  They showed it at the NRA Annual Meeting.  It might be worth seeing what the street price ends up being on those.  They are good, Japanese made scopes:

http://soldiersystems.net/2019...du-1-8x24-sfp-scope/      

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aegis305 posted:

Take a look at the Vortex PST Gen 2 1-6x.  80% of the Vortex Razor at 1/2 the cost.  I've seen them being sold for @$600. 

Eotech apparently is coming out with a new 1-8x second focal plane in its Vudu line.  They showed it at the NRA Annual Meeting.  It might be worth seeing what the street price ends up being on those.  They are good, Japanese made scopes:

http://soldiersystems.net/2019...du-1-8x24-sfp-scope/      

What I'm seeing as the difference between the PST 1-6 and the Razor is the PST has lower illum, a smaller FOV and not as good glass. 

Do you have time behind the PST? Anyone else? 

I'm really surprised there isn't more info out on the SWFA, their scopes have a solid reputation and at that price point I figured there'd be more interest. 

Not sure this will be of much help, but since you asked if anyone has time behind the SWFA...  I have a little bit.

I bought one to put on a DM/'recce' rifle that I blew my budget putting together and tried to save some $ on the glass.  I didn't have it for long, only enough time for a few frustrating range sessions.

I didn't like the reticle in person nearly as much as I thought I would looking at pics.  For some reason, the big donut didn't seem to sit well with me.  Prior to purchase, I thought it was a valid design that could let you use it effectively at 1x and 6x...  I just didn't like it in practice.  But then, opinions are like assholes...

Also, for reasons I was never able to isolate, I could not hold a decent group with the SWFA on the rifle.  I chased imagined bugs through my fundamentals and the weapon system for a while, unsuccessfully.  Eventually, between that and my lackluster opinion of the reticle, I threw up my hands and just replaced the SWFA with a used Leupold Mk6 1-6x which I was able to find for only a couple hundred bucks more than I paid for the SWFA.  For me, personally, the reticle was much better and suddenly my groups tightened right up.  Money well spent.

I'm not blaming the scope for the accuracy issues (and I'm sure if I had been able to pinpoint something to have SWFA address, they would've done so readily), but I can't ignore the correlation of the timing between my scope change vs the improvement of the issue.

This is not meant to talk you out of the SWFA.  It seemed to be a decent scope, just not the one for me on that rifle.  That said, your description of Big Kid vs Pro level is very appropriate.  Good to keep that in perspective if you purchase it.

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senorlechero posted:

What I'm seeing as the difference between the PST 1-6 and the Razor is the PST has lower illum, a smaller FOV and not as good glass. 

Do you have time behind the PST? Anyone else? 

I have a Vortex PST Gen 2 1-6.  I am a complete novice when it comes to LPVO's, and I have no experience with the Razor or other LPVO's.  I'm using the ADM mount that Vortex offers.  It's all mounted on a BCM 14.5" upper, Colt lower.

The PST is not a true 1x.  However, with a little bit of training, on 1x, I found I was almost as fast with it as am with my regular Aimpoint T2, maybe .1-.2 sec slower.  The center illuminated dot is fast to pickup and the reticle does not get in the way.  In daylight conditions, I can run it without the illumination and still pick up the crosshairs just as fast as the dot.

I found the eye relief at 6x to be pretty specific, with low margin of error in the shooters position.  In the prone position, with a BCM stock, I have to hold my cheek just off the stock to get the proper eye relief/sight picture.  I have not found a solid solution, though the LaRue RISR is tempting me.

In my opinion, the quality of the glass in the PST is fine.  I've looked through Swarovski's and Leica's to know what good glass is.  The PST isn't that.  But for me, it's good enough for what my intended purpose, AND my price point.  I just didn't have the funds to go for something better.

I run a Razor 1-6 on my 3-gun competition rifles, and have a Viper PST2 1-6 on my work carbine.  I gotta say, it's tough to justify a $600 difference between the 2 optics.  Yes, the Razor dot is a touch brighter, and the edge-to-edge clarity is better with the razor, but for LE, the Viper is plenty good enough.  If you join Experticity, you can get one for 40% off retail, which comes out to $520ish I think.  There obviously is a learning curve when transitioning up from a dot, but once you get some time behind it, it is truly amazing.

 

Andy

MedicAJ posted:

I run a Razor 1-6 on my 3-gun competition rifles, and have a Viper PST2 1-6 on my work carbine.  I gotta say, it's tough to justify a $600 difference between the 2 optics.  Yes, the Razor dot is a touch brighter, and the edge-to-edge clarity is better with the razor, but for LE, the Viper is plenty good enough.  If you join Experticity, you can get one for 40% off retail, which comes out to $520ish I think.  There obviously is a learning curve when transitioning up from a dot, but once you get some time behind it, it is truly amazing.

 

Andy

Andy, thanks! 

When you say the razor dot is a touch brighter, is the PST still daylight bright? It's my understanding that the Razor is burn your retinas bright. 

The more I look at it the more I think the PST might just be the right choice for me. I'd love to have an NX8 or Kahles, but 1400 buys a lot of ammo, or a scoped carbine class and ammo.  

Ugh.... 

 

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