Dry Fire Mag

Anyone have experience with these? I couldn't find anything on the LF search function.

http://www.dryfiremagdotcom/

I'd like to invest in some training aids to improve my dry fire sessions. I run a glock 19, and so far my products under consideration are:

  • Dry Fire Mag
  • Laser Lyte training system
  • Airsoft G19 made by Umarex, which has a license from Glock. These are scheduled to be ready for shipping sometime in March
  • MantisX- I've heard good feedback from a friend of a friend using this, but the aspect holding me back is that I can't run this from my holster unless I want to remove my x300U

 

Thanks for any feedback you can provide. 

Original Post

I've been through all of this. Couple things to consider, at the end of the day, you're going to want a SIRT pistol. You can try a lot of other things, but right now, these are one of the best all around tools for dry fire. You also HAVE to have a shot timer. SIRT sells weighted dummy mags. I like these for reload drills, but I'll also use real mags with training bullets. Use the ones that have metal cases as the plastic training bullets eventually get rims ripped off by the extractor and you don't want those pieces in your gun.

 

So the $.01 trick is to take a thin piece of paper and put it between the slide and breach. It should be holding your gun just out of battery. For certain dry fire drills, this means you can manipulate the trigger in a way that better simulates multiple shots. The SIRT does this much, much better, but this trick can be useful for certain drills.

 

I wouldn't bother with Airsoft. Generally, the guns are finicky, the gas can be a pain to find, you end up with BB's everywhere. Most "airsoft" training you're better off doing on the range with a .22 conversion. Some guys make airsoft work, but you have to be pretty dedicated to make it viable. I'd spend the money on a SIRT pistol instead.

 

The other piece of dry fire equipment a lot of people forget about is a notebook. You need to be recording your times so you can see where you are progressing. How do you know how fast you are going? Use a shot timer with a par time. The nice thing about the SIRT is you get visual feedback, i.e. did my laser hit the target prior to hearing the second beep? Anyway, dryfire training is invaluable. One way to look at it, is train with dryfire, evaluate with livefire. You can train everything but recoil control dry fire - draws, reloads, shooting and moving, etc. Good luck.

Thanks for the feedback Middlelength. I was hoping I would find some LFers who've already gone down this road.

I've only used a SIRT at an ECQC class, so I have limited experience. In theory, the part I didn't like was that I would need to be watching for the laser and thus would not have my focus on my front sight. I've heard of  people using some sort of reflective tape on the target area that makes the laser splash when it hits the target and thus easier to identify without detracting from the front sight focus. How do you personally work it so that you can use the laser for shot ID but still keep your focus on front sight?

I already use a shot timer and track my times with a notebook so I'm set on that aspect. 

A training buddy of mine showed me the paper hack, but I've held off on utilizing this based on my (uneducated) opinion that this could negatively impact firearm function down the road. I'm not a fan of the idea of continually cycling the trigger with the slide partially out of battery. 

I've got pretty good experience with airsoft guns and I'm aware of how finicky gas guns can be. They need definite TLC to keep running long term. The thing drawing me to airsoft is the ability to work target transitions and shots from the holster and check my holes afterwards. I do my best to call my shots, but it's nice to check the hole vs where I think I was when the shot broke. 

Thanks!

I use a SIRT from work, and i don't do shot times, its mostly for practice reps first shot from holster while getting ready for work. I dry fire on various targets in the room, either myself in a mirror,  candles on a shelf,  etc.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

So low speed, i'm in Park.

"I could stand to hear a little more.." Jayne

Training is brief. Death is forever. PAY ATTENTION.

Joined: 6/14/03 1:02 PM

You can also try the CoolFire conversion on your Glock.  I haven't used it myself, but Hagen77 has and he is very enthusiastic about it.

-------------------------

Mark

Swear allegiance to the flag Whatever flag they offer

Never hint at what you really feel

Teach the children quietly For some day sons and daughters

Will rise up and fight while we stood still

 

Joined:  2/24/2003                          Location:  Nevada, USA

We use Airsoft Sigs for Force on Force training, specifically active shooter and room clearing stuff. They're fine for that, but for dry fire only there are better options, as stated.

Learn how to talk and how to fight, if you can't do one you'll be doing a lot of the other.

I'm using the SIRT almost exclusively for pistol dryfire now. It's perfect for "gun handling" and practicing manipulations. If you want to use it for accuracy you really need one of the laser targets. I fully subscribe to the train with the SIRT and evaluate with live fire.  I can't get to the range as much as I should anymore so this gives me the repetition to keep the skills at a passable level. 

geronimo posted:

I'm using the SIRT almost exclusively for pistol dryfire now. It's perfect for "gun handling" and practicing manipulations. If you want to use it for accuracy you really need one of the laser targets. I fully subscribe to the train with the SIRT and evaluate with live fire.  I can't get to the range as much as I should anymore so this gives me the repetition to keep the skills at a passable level. 

I'm in exactly the same boat.

When  I'm using the SIRT just for trigger repetitions I have a bad tendency to look at the laser and not my front sight.

When I'm  using the SIRT for more focused training (drills,  shot timer, SHOOTOFF software, etc) I tend to be on the front sight like I'm supposed to.

All in all the SIRT is one of the best firearms related purchases I've made in the last few years...

 

When life gives you lemons, say f*** the lemons and bail...

LEEWALL posted:
  • Dry Fire Mag
  • Airsoft G19 made by Umarex, which has a license from Glock. These are scheduled to be ready for shipping sometime in March
  • MantisX- I've heard good feedback from a friend of a friend using this, but the aspect holding me back is that I can't run this from my holster unless I want to remove my x300U
  • SIRT trainer

I've got the four listed above (my airsoft G19 is made by Stark Arms, before they got sued or whatever happened, obviously it functions the same though).  I think all three have pros and cons. 

The Dryfire mag is very quick and easy to use.  Clear your gun, insert magazine, start pulling trigger.  The trigger pull is a little odd but it is nice to be able to get reps on your actual gun so you aren't going back and forth between sight types, grips, etc.  I feel the price is very high for what it is. If it was $40-$50 I would like it a lot more.

Airsoft training is good because it functions almost exactly like a real gun (slide cycles, slide locks back after last round, etc).  Negative is the gas and pellets add up $ over time and those yellow BBs end up EVERYWHERE. Also, a fully gassed magazine doesn't give you as many shots as you would expect.  I set up an airsoft range in my basement.  I glued a silhouette target to a cardboard backer, and cut out the A zone and the brain box.  I then attached an empty box to the back of it which collects the pellets.  I set my contraption on the ping pong table and it allows me to move around the basement taking center mass and head shots and as long as I get good hits the pellets are collected.  If I shank a shot they go rolling off in all directions.

MantisX is more about slow fire and precision it seems.  I like the feedback that it gives you, but having to cycle the slide for every shot gets old and sometimes the force of racking the slide will be read as a shot and will screw up your group which drives me nuts.  Again, like the Dryfire mag it is good because it gets you reps on your actual gun.

The SIRT is probably my favorite of them all.  Just pick it up and start squeezing the trigger.  I turned the "take-up laser" off as I didn't feel it added any benefit for me.  It is close enough to a Glock/M&P that it doesn't seem weird at all.  Trigger pull is different than a real trigger pull but not horrible.  Instant feedback is awesome.  It is easy to recommend to others as unlike the Dryfire Mag and MantisX it does NOT use a real firearm and thus I don't have to worry about people letting a round off in their house on accident.  I have the AR bolt and the Glock version and the handgun gets far more use than the AR bolt.  For this I have some scaled down USPSA metric targets I move around and shoot. One negative is the mag release is HUGE and hurts your hand.  I keep meaning to sand it down but haven't yet.

This is all great info. Thank you for the replies everyone. 

Dorsai, thanks for that suggestion. That is the first I have ever heard of the cool fire.

MDJUDGE- thank you. You provided solid feedback on every option I was considering and have definitely helped steer my purchase. 

I'm leaning toward the airsoft option based on the points below. I'll reply back on this thread after I've had some time with it to let you know how it's going.

  • Identical trigger function to Glock- SIRT doesn't offer this
  • Exact replica to my G19, allows for real rear sight and I can stipple to fully match my carry gun. I'm hoping I can add an extended slide lock lever but we'll see
  • Compatibility with holsters I have and ability to run it with x300

 

CoolFire has had some major issues to the point the guy testing it for us doesn't want to have anything to do with them any more.

Supposedly some issues were fixed... not all have been.

This is the initial review:

There's no charge for awesomeness or attractiveness.

 

Join Date: 11/18/07

Location: Northern Utah

I'll contact Hagen77 and get him to post his experience with them.

-------------------------

Mark

Swear allegiance to the flag Whatever flag they offer

Never hint at what you really feel

Teach the children quietly For some day sons and daughters

Will rise up and fight while we stood still

 

Joined:  2/24/2003                          Location:  Nevada, USA

I used these extensively at work in conjuction with force simulators - they would also be appropriate for dry fire - a little pricey but good:  https://www.dvorakinstruments....roducts/Glock-17.asp

I'm an outlier, I tried the SIRT and couldn't get away from it fast enough, the trigger didn't come close enough to replicate any striker fired trigger for me to feel it was a serious training tool beyond entry level.

The Dvorak system is accurate, gives you recoil and resets the mechanism.  You can either run off a bottle or a CO2 cartridge.

Combined with something like the LASR system, you have a solid dry-fire training system.

http://lasrapp.com/store/lasr-...ivated-shot-reporter

Of course you'll have a couple grand invested.

 

 

I would like to share my experience with the Cool Fire Trainer for my Glock17 Gen3.

I was looking for good dry fire posibilities for my Glock (private and duty) for a long time. In the last couple of months the desire to get something that enhances the training capabilities with my Glock grew extensively.

A friend has a SIRT pistol and an AR15 SIRT bolt and he combined everything with L.A.S.R. and I was able to test those devices. While I really liked L.A.S.R. I could not warm to SIRT (I am talking about the pistol now). I wanted to train with MY pistol, MY sights, MY grip and MY trigger.

So I did a research for systems that are at least able to reset the trigger of my Glock. But I was not satisfied with things that are available. By chance I got word from Cool Fire Trainer System. I thought it was expensive but the desire for a good training tool was bigger. So I bought one.

BLUF: I do not regret it at all! For me it is currently the best dry fire tool I can think of (price-performance ratio).

When the order was still on it´s way I found the video with the negative comment that is posted above. I thought "fuck! I have just ditched 400 dollars!". But all the panic was for nothing. If you see that the spring does not fit because it is to long and still put it together and fire it... .

The first shots with the Cool Fire kit already impressed me a lot. It is awesome to feel the recoil and to be able to pull YOUR Glock trigger over and over again! It is hard to describe the actual recoil. But I would say it is about up to 70 % of the real one. Perhaps a bit less and a bit different. But it is enough to get your sights off the target and enough that you have to grasp the gun thoroughly. The laser that you screw into the barrel was perfectly zeroed. Meanwhile (after about 4000 shots) I had to re-zero it. Not a big thing. A small downside of the laser is that it gets activated by jolt. That means that it gets also activated when the bolt closes. With full CO2 you will not see it. But when the systems slows down you will see 2 laser spots. One for the hit and one after the recoil. But that does not bother me. Apparently it does work with  L.A.S.R. though. But I think you would need their special webcam. I will try that in the future.

I still got the old version that does not come with the little exchangeable plastic caps for the center piston. But they offer to change that piston.

The whole system works really well. When the CO2 barrel comes loose you just have to put thread locker on it and fix it again. No big deal. The sealings are all exchangeable and you are able to disassembe the whole device.

For refill I bought a CO2 bottle for paintball purposes. It holds about 500 gramms of liquid CO2 (and you need liquid CO2 for proper function!). I put the empty and the filled barrel on the scale. The Glock17 barrel holds about 4 to 5 gramms of CO2. That gives you up to 20 consistent shots. Depending on the speed you shoot it. The faster you shoot the colder it gets. And when it is cold the system looses power. That is a common physically effect. So after a few runs I would recommend to give the system time to warm up again.

 

Benefits in a nutshell:

- You can train with YOUR gun, YOUR trigger, YOUR grip and YOUR sights.

- Mag change drills are as realistic as they are with live fire. I would buy the system just for that!

- You will train and squeeze the trigger more than ever before. Just get up in the morning, take the system while still in your bed and "fire" a couple of mags at random spots in your room.

- IMO it is a perfect tool for instructing beginners. You do not need a shooting range, eyepro or earpro and the student will get a feeling for the recoil.

- Add laser targets and enhance everything I jsut said above.

 

Will it harm your Glock? I do not know. But I don´t think so. The piston is made of brass and this is much softer than any part of your Glock. But of course all parts of the pistol move as they do when live fired. But with less force and without heat.

To sum it up I can only say positive things about this system. I will try to get some kits for my unit and I will get a Glock34 System for my Glock 17 as well. The guys from Cool Fire recommended it because the G34 barrel holds more CO2 (for more repetitions) and forces a stronger recoil. The G34 barrel will fit the G17. Of course it will stick out more than the G17 barrel. Even more so with the added laser. Just keep that in mind concerning your holster.

"I'm leaning toward the airsoft option based on the points below. I'll reply back on this thread after I've had some time with it to let you know how it's going.

  • Identical trigger function to Glock- SIRT doesn't offer this

"

airsoft Glock triggers are nothing like the 'real steel' on any of the ones I've tried

"airsoft Glock triggers are nothing like the 'real steel' on any of the ones I've tried"

I agree. My comment on function was based on the airsoft trigger having the integrated safety as a normal Glock does, which is something the SIRT training pistol does not. 

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