Benton Quest posted:

May I recommend just driving around with the gun in your hand?

The FBI learned that lesson the hard way too!

De inimico non loquaris sed cogites.

Benton Quest posted:

May I recommend just driving around with the gun in your hand?

 

You know what they say, "The quickest draw is to already have the gun in your hand."

Holsters are for report writers.

There is no left or right.

There is only tyranny or freedom. 

OK, so I have been following this subject outside of the forum in the periphery. My initial reaction to an after market belt mount was not very favourable. It was tempered when I saw that Safariland was coming out with a new UBL to address the issue. My initial skepticism was based on experiences I saw when members of my previous unit (UOF - LE) were starting to deviate in teaching to wear the duty holster (at the time the Safariland Raptor in Level 4) at the pant hem line (side of hip) and move it slightly forward. Somewhere between side of hip to mid way, just before an appendix carry. They were fine during draws without any stress or time constraint and choked when you added stress or time. Moved the holster back to side of hip and the draw smoothed out. 

So this brings a completely different approach now. That said, I am a shooter and have been for a long time. I did learn rather early on that being a "shooter" isn't a major part of policing - especially in Canada. With that said, my concern is a phenomenon that occurs in the LE UOF world....that of silos/empires. All too often I have seen instructors become linear in thinking, especially when it comes to UOF training and the various sub-disciplines of DT/FA/Scenario-officer safety/IRD/TASER/Carbine/Shotgun instruction. The biggest issue is usually between the DT/FA world. I have seen too many instructors in each respective area become so good in their areas that they "forget" about the other areas.....and end up developing/forgetting that the range is a DT room with live fire and the DT room is a range without live fire concepts.  Cross training and validating becomes critical to user techniques, so that they don't have unintended negative consequences when it comes to the other disciplines. 

I am seeing the benefit of the adjustable cant on the duty holster. My opinion is reserved until more study and fleshing out is done in the DT room and during handgun retention drills, and more importantly in the the House of Pain - the sim house (no not just simunitions, but also protective suit training added in - blauer suit).  

just my .02

Boltgun

I ordered the C-UBL and they've already charged my card. Hopefully that's a good sign as far as shipping goes because their stated 45-60 days is ridiculous.

----------------------------------------- The running password is NOT "allahu akbar"!

Last edited by Mass Grunt

The first availability date was last Friday, the 21st, and mine arrived yesterday (Thursday) afternoon. 

Oh that's awesome.

----------------------------------------- The running password is NOT "allahu akbar"!

"  He also mentioned Safariland’s model 295 holster they built for the Los Angeles County Sheriff’s Department."

Am I imagining things or did they just just mount a right handed holster on a left handed shank to achieve that cant.

"Illegitimus non carborundum"

 

“I have never in my life seen a Kentuckian who didn't have a gun, a pack of cards, and a jug of whiskey.”
― Andrew Jackson

 

KENTUCKIAN!

4102Burke posted:

"  He also mentioned Safariland’s model 295 holster they built for the Los Angeles County Sheriff’s Department."

Am I imagining things or did they just just mount a right handed holster on a left handed shank to achieve that cant.

Bear with me, I'm having a second Rob Roy (manhattan but with scotch instead of bourbon) tonight ...

That is, in fact, a right-hand shank on the 290, purpose-built for that set-up at LASD's request.

I had a conversation with a former participant here who is at the LASD version of Firearms & Tactics. We discussed that holster, the 295, and then the follow-on version, the 280S.

lasd-280S-Duty-Holster-280S-93-81lasd3628873711_a4c85ac47b_b

I don't recall ever hearing or seeing anything on this holster; even having numerous interactions with their Safe Streets Bureau (home of both OSS detectives and GET) over the years. I would have killed for a left-hand 1911 version of  this - apparently they existed.

As Chappy says: Cops Help Cops! 

Then, Don't Be A Blue Falcon

 

Joined: November 2002

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As I mentioned, my NCRE's arrived thursday. Had the chance to get them on to holsters tonight. I have to shoot an office qual tomorrow afternoon, so the black duty version will get some use then. And, M-W, I'm taking Cowan's RDS instructor class with Blackdog - the FDE rig will get broken in.

IMG_3183IMG_3189IMG_3185IMG_3187 

As Chappy says: Cops Help Cops! 

Then, Don't Be A Blue Falcon

 

Joined: November 2002

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...while 2'clock position on drop platform works better for draw (competitions...) how do you guys like it for running/ climbing / mobility stuff? For me it gets in the way of hip flexion and the split second on the draw doesn't seem worth it. 

It might be different for LE than it is for me though 

 "Anatomy and Physiology is EVERYTHING. It is the difference between being a trained monkey and a medic"

-RESQDOC-

Had it on the range yesterday to shoot our qual, then worked a bunch of one, two, three-shot draws on a plate rack.

No apparent issue with hip movement. The first few strings on our qual are standing to kneeling. Because of injuries, my compensation is to shoot strong knee up (reversed) as often as possible. No issues doing that.  I'll see about other concerns come mid-week.

Given the frequency of seeing odd stoppages on BWC footage that are difficult, if not downright impossible, to re-create on the range I "think" (yeah, I know) that a bigger benefit to this may well be how it aids in establishing a correct grip/wrist angle from the git go.

Interesting thread.  

I'm quite interested if this wouldn't be a vast improvement for a female duty holster.

Many, if not all make gaining a proper grip and  draw stroke   awkward due to hip and shoulder width.   

 

I only know one guy that carried with a muzzle forward rake and he was a serious shooter.  He liked it because it required  no breaking of the wrist.  When transitioning to Gen 1 Glocks he rushed a  holster to a leather worker to get the belt slot modified.

  If I remember correctly the holster was a Bianchi 19L which being a fairly high ride put the muzzle about where a watch pocket on a pair of jeans.   I always figured it was an influence from IPSC of that era as many used a competition holster with a similar setup.   Anyone  else remember Ernie Hill Speed Leather rigs like that?

With appendix carry being all the fad, I've  wondered  if a muzzle forward high ride holster that roughly paralleled  the inguinal crease  would be an improvement.   It would allow the muzzle to point forward of a man's junk and re-holstering safer.  If the gun was close to the body concealment wouldn't be an issue.   Most of all it would allow wearing a jacket/suit coat putting the gun butt about the same plane as a bladed hand pushes back the garment and without dropping the shoulder back as the FBI cant requires.

 

 

 

There is no left or right.

There is only tyranny or freedom. 

Maybe my question is stupid, dumb and doesn’t belong here but I have to ask as I’ve seen some folks running them:

In place of a low ride UBL, is the DFA with a QLS for neutral position a better option?  Yes, I know you cannot negative cant it. 

J_B posted:
In place of a low ride UBL, is the DFA with a QLS for neutral position a better option?  Yes, I know you cannot negative cant it.

I'm not a fan of either the low ride or the DFA/leg-shroud for my roles - so I can't comment one way or another.

The mid-ride with the NCP is working well for me.

I've had my NCP-E on my SLS/ALS RDS holster for a little over a week of uniformed patrol including two dry-fire sessions and a full day of live fire training.  I am a big fan.  I am consistently seeing a .10 second reduction in my draw time over normal.  I am currently running it with the least amount of negative cant and I have the holster positioned directly over my hip pocket.  This is also my first experience with a holster mounted CAT.  It looks a little odd but I really like how easy I can grab the TQ with either hand and it basically takes up zero space on my belt.  

I just ordered two more for my other holsters.  Thanks to everyone who contributed to bringing these to market.

Should anyone be interested in a domestic source for the plates, Centrifuge Training is the US distributor for them now.

I have no financial interest in Centrifuge.

Waiting to see a comparison between the NCP, the RDR SDP, and Safariland's CUBL.  All will get you to a zero cant on a duty holster in their own way.  

Blessed be the Lord, my rock

who trains my arms for battle,

who prepares my hands for war.

 

Psalm 144.1

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