LBT is pretty slow about changing designs, they were way behind on getting on board the MOLLE bandwagon.  SSD had some photos up of the latest 6094 plate carrier.  It finally has a quick release and uses laser cut molle attachment instead of bartacking PALS webbing on the vest.  Their stuff is solidly built though.

"A pirate is not the sort of a man who generally cares to pay his bills...and after a time the work of endeavoring to collect debts from pirates was given up."

          -Frank R. Stockton

I would ASSume LBT is going the light weight route, seeing as how their legacy systems are for sale as surplus these days.  I know there have been solicitations for external frame, short back "jungle" rucks from SOCOM, so I don't know why they wouldn't throw their hat into the ring.  

Hmm.  2L bottles, sounds interesting.   

"Pacifism is a shifty doctrine where a person claims all the benefits of the body politic, without any of the responsibilities, and then claims a halo for their dishonesty." Heinlein

LBT submitted a ruck for that SOCOM solicitation.  It looked like a good size, outside was pretty slick.  I’ll see if I can dig up the photos.

"A pirate is not the sort of a man who generally cares to pay his bills...and after a time the work of endeavoring to collect debts from pirates was given up."

          -Frank R. Stockton

 LBT submission.  Not sure I like how it sits right on your back, even with that channel down the bottom ,  It doesn’t look like it would allow much air flow on your back. 

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"A pirate is not the sort of a man who generally cares to pay his bills...and after a time the work of endeavoring to collect debts from pirates was given up."

          -Frank R. Stockton

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Diz posted:

I would ASSume LBT is going the light weight route, seeing as how their legacy systems are for sale as surplus these days.  I know there have been solicitations for external frame, short back "jungle" rucks from SOCOM, so I don't know why they wouldn't throw their hat into the ring.  

Hmm.  2L bottles, sounds interesting.   

Ebay is lousy with the real thing or copies- some of which are rather dodgy.

One thing about them was they were compatible with the issue NBC gear - many alternatives were not.

 

Diz posted:

Ha- that's funny, my bud and I were just discussing this, taking a Medium ALICE into one of the sew shops in town and having a pocket set sewn on like a Large. 

Timely discussion

I’m actually just about to take my medium ALICE pack into JayJays up in Brecon, along with my large ALICE

The large exterior pocket on the large ALICE im going to get stitched onto the lid of the medium.

The two slightly smaller exterior pockets of the large I want to get stitched onto the sides of the medium, after removing the ALICE loops.

This will give me 5 large-ish pockets around the base centre of the main bag and one large exterior pocket on the top flap

Also going to get storm collars added to every pouch, and possibly a hydration port on the lid as well.

I think the medium ALICE is almost the perfect size for a rucksack where the soldier needs to be completely self sustaining for around a 72-96 hour period. And since I’ve gotten my MR Mountain Ruck, I don’t mind donating the large ALICEs exterior pockets to just bump up the mediums capacity just a little bit

For a “big” ruck, the MR mountain ruck rocks.

I’ve attached the MR daysack lid to mine, and I’ve also gotten hold of some MR long pockets as well. Great pack, very comfortable with the NICE frame.

But the NICE frame has limitations. It’s designed to be worn with armour or a chest rig. The big padded belt sits EXACTLY where the fighting load on my belt wants to sit. 

If I were to run the pack with belt webbing (my beltkit is a JayJays set) then I would be considering putting the MR pack onto the ALICE frame, and using the webbing belt supporting the base of the frame as the waist belt. That’s for any activity where I’m using my webbing as my second line - temperate patrolling, jungle, mountain, whatever. If I’m in my plate carrier, the NICE frame stays on and I’ll figure out how to integrate the small amount on my belt (assaulter first line stuff - pistol mags, dump pouch, pistol) with the NICE belt.

I know Diz has been banging this drum of using the beltkit as the rucksack waistbelt. It works, but maybe at around 85%, compared to the 97% of the purpose built NICE frame. (97% because nothing is perfect). It still sucks, hauling a 70lb+ ruck over your 40-odd lb fighting load.

Jesus, big wall of text. I only intended to tell you I was getting extra ALICE pockets sewn onto a medium ruck.

__________________________

Gunner posted:

LBT submission.  Not sure I like how it sits right on your back, even with that channel down the bottom ,  It doesn’t look like it would allow much air flow on your back...

200A603B-19B5-4036-9CF4-471DA145294C

Better looking airflow than a lot of packs. The triangle at the bottom should help, as the central channel cannot get blocked as easily. But at least we're trending better: my 80s internal frames had just a few pads, so airflow akin to external frame. The 90s had the molded back panels with zero, so we're getting back to pads and gaps again, good. 

OTOH, I do not like this trend of not putting load lifters on packs. By the time you get to this size, you need the straps to wrap down and around your shoulders. Direct attachment only doesn't make me happy at all. 

The things that will destroy America are prosperity at any price, peace at any price, safety first instead of duty first, the love of soft living and the get rich quick theory of life. – Theodore Roosevelt

 

Joined: 19NOV2004   Location: Mission, Kansas

Ha, Sky Spud, that's funny but true; your percentages are pretty close to the bone.    Fortunately for me my weights are much lighter these days (typically under 20 for a belt kit, and under 40 for a ruck), but you're spot on, rucking, humping, yomping, etc. still sucks no matter how you kit up.  

Good Lord man, it must be nice to just pop into Jay Jays for few mods and maybe a cuppa from the roach coach out front.  One small suggestion, I would see what they could whip up in the way of pouches before I ripped up a good Large for parts.

Yes I do gob on about the belt kit versus the PC or chest rig.  In my neck of the woods, it's like you guys in Borneo; fucking hot and muggy.  For us, in a possible WROL sit, if we do any kind of long range recce, I don't think BA is going to be very practical, or for that matter, anything on your chest.  So in this scenario, I think returning to belt kit makes a lot of sense.   Along with a short back ruck.   As you say, it's not perfect, but it does work the best of anything else I've tried, along these lines.  

But to your point, if the terrain and situation lends itself to it, then PC's and/or chest rigs are used.  Along with long back rucks. So yeah, depends on where you are, and what you're up to.  

My point is most guys are oriented to the last methods of carry used; I think many could benefit from looking at updated and modernized ways of doing things from the past.  Maybe even looking at what the Brits have done, and see how that would improve the deal.

BTW have you had a chance to look at the Jungle ruck yet?            

"Pacifism is a shifty doctrine where a person claims all the benefits of the body politic, without any of the responsibilities, and then claims a halo for their dishonesty." Heinlein

Diz posted:

Ha, Sky Spud, that's funny but true; your percentages are pretty close to the bone.    Fortunately for me my weights are much lighter these days (typically under 20 for a belt kit, and under 40 for a ruck), but you're spot on, rucking, humping, yomping, etc. still sucks no matter how you kit up.  

Good Lord man, it must be nice to just pop into Jay Jays for few mods and maybe a cuppa from the roach coach out front.  One small suggestion, I would see what they could whip up in the way of pouches before I ripped up a good Large for parts.

Yes I do gob on about the belt kit versus the PC or chest rig.  In my neck of the woods, it's like you guys in Borneo; fucking hot and muggy.  For us, in a possible WROL sit, if we do any kind of long range recce, I don't think BA is going to be very practical, or for that matter, anything on your chest.  So in this scenario, I think returning to belt kit makes a lot of sense.   Along with a short back ruck.   As you say, it's not perfect, but it does work the best of anything else I've tried, along these lines.  

But to your point, if the terrain and situation lends itself to it, then PC's and/or chest rigs are used.  Along with long back rucks. So yeah, depends on where you are, and what you're up to.  

My point is most guys are oriented to the last methods of carry used; I think many could benefit from looking at updated and modernized ways of doing things from the past.  Maybe even looking at what the Brits have done, and see how that would improve the deal.

BTW have you had a chance to look at the Jungle ruck yet?            

I’ve got more than one large ALICE- and like I say, since I got the MR Mountain, they don’t get used. At least by donating the pockets from the large, the modified medium should look at least kind of like it’s supposed to look like that, rather than having a patchwork quilt of a rucksack.

I would say I’m in body armour proper at least 80% of the time, which is why I leave the mountain ruck on the NICE frame.

Another 15% of the time I’m in a slick plate carrier with a chest rig on. Usually vehicle mounted. Again, NICE frame.

But that last 5% of the time? It’s worth planning how to skin that elephant in advance, because if you plan properly, it’s gonna suck balls a lot less. That last 5% is belt kit order with a bloody great big rucksack. Body armour will be carried and worn when contact is expected (the grown up way) - or just worn under the belt kit from the outset (the career course / schoolhouse way).

This stuff was generally a little easier in the past. Blokes had one set of belt kit and one rucksack and that was it, you made it work for everything you did. And body armour was nowhere near as prevalent as today.

Today, we have ALL the gear choices. And for the 95% of modern soldiering tasks, the gear is great. Just needs some planning for the final 5%.

 

I’ve seen the JayJays jungle ruck.  I tried not to look too closely at it because I know I would have bought it!

Now I’ve got the MR and have absolutely 0 requirement for another pack, I’ll have a proper look when drop the ALICEs off

 

 

__________________________

Huh, so much more fun talking to adults here.   Sierra Papa I appreciate your input here (along with all the other pirates hanging around this place).  Fucking refreshing to hear from guys with actual experience and common sense T,T,P's.  I actually had some guy on another website brace me up for daring to suggest that taping up your ALICE waist belt was a viable technique.  Like what guy didn't get through jump, selection, and follow-on without being exposed (if not actually doing) that.  Insisted that the waist belt MUST be done up, OR ELSE!  Not quite sure what the OR ELSE! might have been.  A write up from your CO?  Dunno.    

I like your common sense approach,  or rather, your good sense approach.  I think you really hit the nail on the head with your comment about "school house" technique, vs "common sense" technique.  That is probably the source of so many arguments on line.  Many people who went through the courses, but perhaps had limited experience on actual deployment, will tout the party line about how to do things.  Not that they are actually "wrong" per se, just never had the opportunity (or the inclination) to explore other ways of doing things, as you said, that actually make sense.  Sometimes a rather rare thing in military circles.      

This issue of wearing BA under a ruck is a classic case in point.  Everyone(?) knows it's a non-starter, but it is still insisted on by the powers that be.  If it must be carried, why not put it in your ruck, until, I don't know, it might be actually needed.   Again, on another website, this guy is doing some run and gun comp, where he wanted to wear BA under his ruck.  I said why do that shit if you didn't have to (I think he just wanted to imitate the big boys).  So this dude pipes up about wearing a ruck with BA 30+ times a year, like it's a good thing.  And actually defends doing it (because he was made to do it), so how dare I question it.  Uh, I don't know, because it's fucking stupid.                 

"Pacifism is a shifty doctrine where a person claims all the benefits of the body politic, without any of the responsibilities, and then claims a halo for their dishonesty." Heinlein

So yeah, you get these endless arguments about things, and guys get a lot of bum scoop.  The thing I really think gets lost is that guys don't tie the technique to their particular situation.  For instance, SF troops may have SOP's (or actual ways of doing things) that make good sense, for them and what they're doing.  But the average guy, who may be prepping for hard times, has no way of evaluating them, and figuring out what will work best for him, in his terrain and situation.  Case in point, belt kit with full ruck.  For various reasons, maybe not used much by Specialist Troops.  But.  Not to say that in your particular situation, it would make a lot of sense.  

 

"Pacifism is a shifty doctrine where a person claims all the benefits of the body politic, without any of the responsibilities, and then claims a halo for their dishonesty." Heinlein

Well two things.  First is 500d MC is back-ordered right now.  Secondly I'm still struggling to find a way to get pics up.   It will happen eventually.  

I think what you have is a small place above the 3-pockets for maybe some admin pouches, dunno, will have to see, but plenty of room on the sides for two "long" pockets-or the ones from the Large.  And then  "claymore" pouch on top.      

"Pacifism is a shifty doctrine where a person claims all the benefits of the body politic, without any of the responsibilities, and then claims a halo for their dishonesty." Heinlein

Erick posted:

Regarding the mod of adding pockets off a Large ALICE pack to a medium, anyone have pictures of that set-up? I'm trying to envision it. Thanks. 

Great thread. 

I’ll get photos but it’ll be a couple of weeks mate

__________________________

In the meantime, twenty bucks says SP ends up with a jungle ruck. 

"Pacifism is a shifty doctrine where a person claims all the benefits of the body politic, without any of the responsibilities, and then claims a halo for their dishonesty." Heinlein

Dont know why this didnt post earlier.  

Ive been eyeballing a pack Platatac makes called the Spur tropical pack. Basically a plussed up 3 day assault pack with an external frame.  Looks like it might hold about what a med ALICE would.  Black and tan are on sale for ~$130 right now.

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"A pirate is not the sort of a man who generally cares to pay his bills...and after a time the work of endeavoring to collect debts from pirates was given up."

          -Frank R. Stockton

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Gunner posted:

Dont know why this didnt post earlier.  

Ive been eyeballing a pack Platatac makes called the Spur tropical pack. Basically a plussed up 3 day assault pack with an external frame.  Looks like it might hold about what a med ALICE would.  Black and tan are on sale for ~$130 right now.

B5D8CB8A-BC20-4E65-94D8-CE530AE19A8DA7C19A92-A5A4-40B3-86EF-6D57D2E112BE

I already asked them about this.  They don’t make it anymore, so the Black and Tan on sale are the last of them.  I think there’s a random Australian survival gear site that sells ranger green ones at full price.

They did say that they could do a run of 100 though.

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I think TT once offered a 3 day pack very similar to that Platatac pack but without the frame.  Maybe in the 05-06 timeframe.

"A pirate is not the sort of a man who generally cares to pay his bills...and after a time the work of endeavoring to collect debts from pirates was given up."

          -Frank R. Stockton

Hmm yeah interesting stuff.  If that's what you got as issue, then it makes sense to mod up.  If I was starting from scratch, I'd prefer a top loader, ala Medium ALICE.  

"Pacifism is a shifty doctrine where a person claims all the benefits of the body politic, without any of the responsibilities, and then claims a halo for their dishonesty." Heinlein

Diz, concur on top loader opening, and I think for your jungle focus the external frame is important. But to mimic the way the Brits do it with internal frame Bergans and the great article Arctic1 did on his Norwegian Army personal set up, I've seen Brits use the Camelback BFM (I think) for this. I have one as my range bag (found it on the side of the road, no shit) and I will throw it on top of my belt kit to do range stuff occasionally. Fits closer than the upgraded ALICE we've been discussing, but it is a plug and play solution.

You'll get a kick out of this: I'm on a work trip to California, and in the chow hall there's a UK Royal Army Medical Corps Sergeant Major who religiously keeps his (new, issued) MTP belt kit by his side during every meal I've gone to so far. I asked briefly about it and he immediately went on a brief elocution about it's virtues for light infantry, especially in this heat here.

-Von

So I dropped the medium ALICE off at JayJays yesterday to get modded. Also took a large ALICE in as a donor pack. Cheers life, for getting in the way - I wanted to get it done last week really.

 Here’s a quick rundown of what work is getting done to the medium: 

  • Medium lid is being removed completely and being replaced with the large lid.
  • The new lid is getting the large base centre pouch from the large pack attached
  • The crappy rubber on the underside of the lid is getting replaced with cordura
  • The map pocket on the lid is having a zip closure rather than Velcro.
  • Female fastex buckles attached on the lid, with the closure straps attaching on the top (so basically inverting the standard closure straps)
  • Wide short zip pocket attached above the 3 medium pouches
  • I wanted the base left and right pouches from the front of the large put onto the side of the medium - so ending up with 5 pouches across the base of the medium. It turns out that there wasn’t enough room to use the pouches from the large ALICE, by about 3 inches total. If I’d used the slightly smaller medium ALICE pockets as donor pockets, then they would JUST have fitted. However. Getting MOLLE stitched down each side of the medium pack now in place of the standard ALICE webbing.

 

Guys head in the workshop almost melted when I turned up yesterday with a big list of everything I wanted to do. To be fair, he is used to my difficult little requests.

Should be done in about a week, so I’ll get some pictures when I get it back. 

Out of interest, what’s the preferred photo hosting website now photobucket doesn’t work?

__________________________

Hey cool can't wait to see this.  

And thanks for the pic hosting site.  

"Pacifism is a shifty doctrine where a person claims all the benefits of the body politic, without any of the responsibilities, and then claims a halo for their dishonesty." Heinlein

As an update, while I'm waiting for my Crossfire frame and suspension, I'm finishing up the LBT bag.  Decided to go with 1" loops for the external pouches, so they are removable and have slots to stuff behind them, especially on the sides.  Will then put tabs on the pouches.  Since I've got the 1606 frame and "mountain" suspension, I'm gonna keep these as a comparison to the Crosssfire system.   Should be interesting.  

For those of you that might be wondering, taking a bag completely apart isn't really that hard.  Just a lot of little steps that eventually add up.  I use a #11 x-acto blade knife (very carefully) in lieu of a seam ripper.  A lot depends on the mfg, and how the tensions are adjusted/ balanced on their machines.  Most are fairly easy; LBT and Arc'Teryx are some of the hardest, because their machines are so well adjusted.  

Once you are down to the back panel, I would recommend modifying the frame sleeve, by "squaring" it off a bit, making more room in the middle for load stabilizer straps.  With a DEI "mountain" or Crossfire DG-16 suspension, you don't need a pad in the sleeve anymore, so leave it out if you want.  Remember to reinforce it with at least 1" webbing, running all the way across the back.

I then measure off where the tabs for the frame will go, and run a continuous piece of 1" webbing all the way across the back.  These go into the side seams (either folded or cut) and end with the tabs.  This way the bag is hanging on webbing, not just cordura.

On the inside, I add 2 x 1" loops to hang a water bladder on.  The 3L bladder will have a sleeve with 2 x 1" tabs. 

I use the FILBE/MR top flap design as a pattern for the top lid.  It is semi-fitted, with one large zippered pouch on top.  I use mesh for the bottom wall.  

"Pacifism is a shifty doctrine where a person claims all the benefits of the body politic, without any of the responsibilities, and then claims a halo for their dishonesty." Heinlein

Diz,

On the pouches, is it pseudo-Kifaru-esque in the you have the 1" loops sewn onto the bag at, say, the corners of where the pouch will go? And the pouch will have a tab for just that spot, right? If so, that's what I think is the most efficient replacement for MOLLE/PALS for adding pouches to rucks.

-Von

Ja, mon, that's exactly the deal.  Gregory did it before that with 1" loops and flat metal buckles, just reversed from the way Kifaru did it.  I am going the Kifaru style, only using web tabs instead of metal hardware.

I also think it's the best option to molle.   But I am reinforcing the sites with Ty 12 doublers, which will spread the load into the surrounding bag.      

"Pacifism is a shifty doctrine where a person claims all the benefits of the body politic, without any of the responsibilities, and then claims a halo for their dishonesty." Heinlein

Diz, when are you going to be able to post some pictures and diagrams?

I'm not as well versed as some, and it would help me a lot more if I could see what you're doing.

This info is awesome! Thanks for posting these threads.

_____________________________________________

 

Doug

If I mention Corona, I ain't talking about beer.

 

"It's your turn to do until it's not."  TA

 

"Afterall.... if you get yourself into a fair fight.. you really haven't learned anything in all the time you have spent on Lightfighter, your tactics suck, and you don't deserve to breed."  David Reeves

 

JOINED:  9/20/09     LOCATION:  Outside of KSA Finally!

Oy veh, my Achilles heel.  I will try and get my younger buds to sort me out on this soon.  

"Pacifism is a shifty doctrine where a person claims all the benefits of the body politic, without any of the responsibilities, and then claims a halo for their dishonesty." Heinlein

runningwolf posted:

Forgot to add. The side MOLLE that replaces the ALICE webbing I mentioned. That may be an option for increasing its ability to work in cold weather. Slap the sustainment pouches off the MOLLE ruck on the side when needed and that can make more room in the main compartment for a good sleeping bag.

OK, I modded a Medium ALICE with PALS around the body.  Three GI multicam sustainment pouches fit but there's no room for anything else around the girth.

I kept the legacy upper webbing strap to mount GI 2-quart canteens.  The rubberized coating on the lid fabric dry-rotted off so I fabbed a new lid pouch of 500 denier multicam from Rocky Woods.

Pictures tomorrow maybe. 

OK sports fans, I'm gonna give you some notes on rucksack mods.  Depending on what you need, there's lots to choose from.  I went with a LBT 2657 cuz I wanted something in OCP to put on a 1606 frame.  Still plenty of Med and Large ALICE bags out there.  Large Molle, Molle 4,000, not to mention the FILBE.  I will give a generic description of breaking down the LBT, but it pretty much describes all of them.  

First of all decide which frame you want.  I started out with a DEI 1606 but ended up with a  Crossfire DG-16.  I would pretty much stick with either of these frames over metal.  Whichever you chose will determine where the "tabs" you add are going to be placed.  If you do chose a 1606, and set the bag up for that, you can upgrade later to the DG-16, as the tab pattern will still fit.  

Now you are ready for the tear down.  At the very least you will have to open up the main side seams to insert frame tabs.  If you pick the DG-16 you also have to decide whether to keep the top sleeve, or go with the Crossfire style "jockstrap".   I like this arrangement better because it gives you total access to the top of the frame, which allows you to put your top load stabilizer straps exactly where needed.  With a top sleeve you can't use to two most outboard positions, which is what I prefer.  

To open up a ruck.  It looks like a huge task.  And it may be but if you take it one step at a time, it is doable.  I use a no. 11 x-acto knife.  Yes it can be risky, but with a little practice I find it is much quicker and easier than a seam ripper.  But just like the Boy Scouts (used to) teach you, keep your holding hand in back of the cutting hand.  That little bitch is sharp.  Put tension on the seam, until you see stitches, and careful pick them with the blade.  Once you make an entry, choke up on the material, keeping taunt, and continue to rip the seam.  

With this particular ruck, you remove the top flap.  Then you remove the "storm" collar, which gives you access to the side seams.  With an ALICE you go right to the side seams.  If the seam is taped, you find an entry, and work the tape off first.  I will work both stitch lines, back and forth, as I go.  Once the tape is off, you go to work on the seams themselves.  Be careful where webbing is inserted.  The material will tear here because it is sucked in so tight to the webbing.  Be sure and pull tension so the blade stays on the thread only.  

At this point, you are probably wondering if you can get away with just opening up the seams enough to get the frame tabs in.  The answer is yes, but I will esplain why I don't just do that.  Over the years I have found that it's just easier to break the damn thing down, into component parts, work my magic on them, and then re-assemble the damn thing.  Trying to do something, with the rest of the ruck hanging onto it, moving all that crap around to sew something in, well it's just a lot harder IMHO, than just opening it up all the way up.  But this is an individual technique; you gain experience, may find you like to do it another way.

A note:  I work on hard wood floors because it's easier to sweep up all the thread fuzz.  It makes a fucking mess.  If you are on carpet, I would advise you to lay some sheet plastic down (or newspaper), under your work area.  When you are down on your hands and knees, trying to vacuum all those little fuckers out of the carpet, don't say I didn't warn you.  

Ok at this point, we have taken the seams completely apart.  This usually the point where my wife comes in and says "Is that the new pack you just bought!?"  Just flash you best "gay adventurer" smile and say "Yeah, no problem."

Now we are gonna clean the parts.  Get some small curved and straight hemos.  These are the best tools for picking all that cut thread out of the parts.  It's kind a PITA but you'll get the hang of it.  Work over your trashcan as much as possible.  I use a beer case box, lined with a plastic bag, which gives you a nice wide mouth.  Work one stitch line at a time, top to bottom, left to right; find a pattern that works for you to systematically remove all that crap.  

Once the thread is completely gone, examine the base material.  Any small rips or tears can be repaired with McNett Seam Grip.  Dab a little on, let it set, shape it with your fingers, and let dry completely.  If you have a big tear, you'll have to repair it.  I'll cover that later.  Now you may notice you have all these little fine holes in the material.  What I do, is lay out the part on a flat surface, like your lay out table, and then "rake" the holes with the blunt nose of the hemos.  What you're trying to do, is move the individual fibers around, and minimize the punctures.  This sometimes takes several passes, on both sides, to clean up.  Some materials work better than others, but in general this will close up the holes enough to be cosmetically if not structurally repaired.  This may sound a little goofy, but it works.  Also good technique for just regular sewing, when you take something out and want to re-do it.  If you leave the perforations, the needle will want to track in the old holes, again, instead of where you want it to go.

Holy shit, the piece is ready for re-work.  Now we gotta figure out what new stuff we want to add.             

   

"Pacifism is a shifty doctrine where a person claims all the benefits of the body politic, without any of the responsibilities, and then claims a halo for their dishonesty." Heinlein

OK, let's work on the back of the bag.  I removed the top sleeve, cut it down a bit, as previously mentioned, then resewed in place.  I also replaced padding with something a lot smaller (1/4" closed-cell foam).  Measure and sew 1" reinforcing webbing across, where your tab slots on the frame will line up.  In this case we've done a 1606 pattern, with just two slots per side.  Allow approx 1/2" for shrinkage (add to measurement between top and bottom tabs).  Sew tabs directly on top.  I would recommend waiting to fold tabs until you see how much is needed, between bag and frame, then trimming to length, folding over, and sewing.  In this case, these were un-done and shortened considerably.    

"Pacifism is a shifty doctrine where a person claims all the benefits of the body politic, without any of the responsibilities, and then claims a halo for their dishonesty." Heinlein

Notice how 1" webbing is sewn across sleeve back, before sides are sewn down.  This is a critical step for a top sleeve ruck because most of the stress was traditionally on the sleeve.  It still is here somewhat, although with some tabs helping out, not as much as before.  This also acts as an anchor point for any 1" loops you may add to the inside for back panels.

Look at all those holes on the top of the piece!  As an option, you may brush some Seam Grip into a really perforated area like this, especially on a load-bearing seam.  Another option is to trim these areas off, making the piece slightly smaller, but also fresh for a strong joint.  In this case, this is what was done on the sides.     

"Pacifism is a shifty doctrine where a person claims all the benefits of the body politic, without any of the responsibilities, and then claims a halo for their dishonesty." Heinlein

Here is the back panel.  It is a one-piece, wrap-around style.  After cleaning and trimming, I laid out where I wanted 1" loop attachment points for the external pouches.  In this case we have two long side pouches, and a center paneI, which can be a single basha pouch or two medium pouches.  I used Ty 12 webbing, which is probably over-kill; base material would probably work just fine.

 

"Pacifism is a shifty doctrine where a person claims all the benefits of the body politic, without any of the responsibilities, and then claims a halo for their dishonesty." Heinlein

And here's the front side.  Can you believe this was a 2657?  Lots of stuff came off this thing.  The 1"loops were superimposed on the doublers and box "X stitched.  

"Pacifism is a shifty doctrine where a person claims all the benefits of the body politic, without any of the responsibilities, and then claims a halo for their dishonesty." Heinlein

And here is the back and main panel sewn back together.  In this case, the bottom was part of the back, and the sides are part of the front.  I didn't take any pictures but what you do is line up the edges, with the pieces placed "outside to outside", meaning the outsides are placed together (with the insides showing), and clamped/pinned together.  I use small document clamps and quilting pins to hold everything together until sewn down.  The first pass is approx. 1/4" from the edge, just to stitch everything in place.  Once you are satisfied, then the seams are taped.  In this case I use 1" binding tape.  Since the build ups can get thick, it works the best.  And since these pieces interlock, like a puzzle, you can run a continuous piece of binding tape down one side, around the bottom, and up the other side.  I use a double row of stitching on the tape, so each seam is at least triple stitched.  Since you are still working "inside out" , you then turn it outside and check seams.   

"Pacifism is a shifty doctrine where a person claims all the benefits of the body politic, without any of the responsibilities, and then claims a halo for their dishonesty." Heinlein

Fit check the frame.  Notice how it's a little tight.  That's why I said to allow about a 1/2" for shrinkage.

"Pacifism is a shifty doctrine where a person claims all the benefits of the body politic, without any of the responsibilities, and then claims a halo for their dishonesty." Heinlein

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