I've got a 1944/5 mountain ruck(among way too many other packs) other than material looks alot like a large ALICE. Which I believe was a copy of Scandinavian/european mountain ruck/bergan.
Where can a non-mil guy go and learn good info about the belt kits and such?
Forgot to add. The side MOLLE that replaces the ALICE webbing I mentioned. That may be an option for increasing its ability to work in cold weather. Slap the sustainment pouches off the MOLLE ruck on the side when needed and that can make more room in the main compartment for a good sleeping bag.
I’ve been thinking of basically the same thing. Unfortunately, the medium Alice can fit 2, maybe squeeze in 3 columns of MOLLE webbing in that space. The sustainment pouch is 4 columns. However, if you can squeeze in 3 columns, there are still a good number of decent size utility pouches that can go there. As a heads up, TT custom shop puts in 2 columns on medium alices when that mod is ordered.
On the plus side, there is a lot of space between the bottom of the frame and the bottom of the pack when mounting a medium Alice onto a DEI 1606 frame. This is space that can be used for a compression sack in the event of cold weather.
You guys must be some tall SOBs to consider ALICE a short back ruck. If I could do anything to change ALICE it would be to make the frame adjustable for height. I did find something of a solution by accident. A few months back I picked up a used ruck from a MARSOC guy. it had been designed by LBT and was definitely made with wet environments in mind. Picked it up thinking it would be a good jungle bag (looked about the same size as a medium ALICE). When I picked it up the seller showed me that the shoulder harness, attached to an ALICE frame was adjustable for height. So my short ass body can wear the waist belt on my hips and have it sit on top of the belt kit. The only drawback to the system is the back is padded, so it cuts down on airflow but I think the design could be tweaked to fix that. Its a pretty nice pack, made of a mix of 500d cordura, Hypalon and soft shell material. the storm flap is like a thin rip stop poncho material.
I tried one of the LBT rucks when I was doing LRS stuff and ended up giving it away. I thought the main compartment was undersized. I prefer not to use a lot of pockets on the outside of the ruck. I just use small stuff sacks in the main compartment to separate items. One of the tips that came out of the Jungle thread was using stuff sacks with tie downs using different color 550 cord and knots to identify what sack your pulling out. I really liked technique. That thread pretty much led me to decide on a medium ALICE if I ever get tapped for the jungle. Plan to send a pack I have out to get a claymore pouch sewn on the top and the storm flap added.
I replaced that LBT ruck with a HSGI trashbag. Main compartment is probably pretty close in size to the large ALICE. With a couple sustainment pouches slapped on the sides it looks similar enough to the issue MOLLE ruck but uses an ALICE frame. It's overbuilt, and heavier than it needs to be but I have no doubt it could probably survive a couple careers worth of use. If HSGI came out with an updated lighter weight version, I'd give it a look. But I don't think they're interested in doing anything that doesn't involve TACOs anymore.
Diz I might have to send you that LBT pack to see if you could do some kind of variation of the adjustable shoulder straps for hot humid environments. I'll try to post photos of the setup tomorrow, my computer is being uncooperative tonight.
I saw a guy on FB that put the new issue medium ruck frame into an old ALICE ruck. It looked like it might actually work pretty well. I can find the frame itself cheap but can't find the kidney pad on its own. I'll see if I can dig up that photo too.
I also ran across this awhile back, I dont remember the exact details but I think its a HPG pack with a Kifaru pack attached. Looks handy and a reasonable size.
Do a search on the term "Marauder ALICE pack". You'll get things like this:
An ALICE bag on a FILBE harness. There a lots of variations but basically the train of thought is trying to drive the ALICE pack harder with a more comfortable harness.
Ding, Ding, Ding! Tango Alpha gets the prize. The ALICE bags themselves are really good. Especially with some upgrades. If you take the DE 1606 (ALICE and FILBE frame) and a new suspension (I like the DE "Mountain" suspension), you can build a pretty kick-ass pack system. Especially if you have both Medium, and Large bags. Kinda like a summer and winter system.
Sinister gave a nice synopsis of LBE/ruck history. After Molle, ILBE, and some MR stuff, we are pretty much coming around back to ALICE with some good improvements. I think the FILBE is essentially an ALICE with improvements, Molle 4,000 as well, with the newer TT line being improvements over the MALICE system. And I think MR is working on something as a follow-on to the NICE system. Not to mention Jay Jays and Platatac's Jungle rucks.
Gunner: Yeah man love to see that LBT set-up; we could probably rig something up with good lumbar adjustment for ya. That's the beauty of the 1606 frame and the newer suspensions; you can vary the torso height and just use the top attachment points for load stabilizer straps.
There's a shit-load of stuff you can do with these older bags, although some newer bags in OCP/MC would be nice to play with, too. One option may be to take the Molle bags and convert them for ALICE frame use. The Brit short back Bergen is a nice platform, too. If taken apart and cut down some, you get a nice Medium ALICE size. Which come to think of it, might be a good option with a Large Molle as well.
...I replaced that LBT ruck with a HSGI trashbag.
Damn. My back hurts just thinking about it.
Man I love that thing 🤣 with a good kidney belt.
Yikes, that's a monster. I patterned out something very similar to that for SOE, but only made one prototype, which I believe ended up with BDS in that debacle, but anyways, yeah liked the concept of extending it upwards, to include an artic sleeping system, instead of just cobbling something on the bottom, which just bumped into your ass (or belt kit) on the move. But I think the better solution was to add external pockets to allow more internal volume for all that shit.
Also, I look at all these full Molle packs like disco pants and shirts, with platform shoes. So Two Thousand and Five.
Here is that adjustable suspension system. The padded back piece is velcroed in, it flips up then you pull open those two darker flaps that are also velcroed in place. That releases the shoulder harness, you slide a panel up and there are three slots the panel can slide into. So ylu have about 3” of adjustment in the height of the shoulder straps. At the lowest setting its just about right for me. At least it fits me better than any ALICE or MOLLE suspension system IVe used in the past. Im not sure how mich weight it could bear, the pack its mounted to is about the size of a med ALICE so somewhat limited in how much you would load. Im not sure if it would handle large ruck sized loads.
Its some pack that LBT made up for the MARSOC guys, dude i bought it from said LBT came down and worked real close with them on the design.
a good portion of it is hypalon or some thing similar, 500d cordura and some of the outer pockets are a softshell type material.
Right on, nice ruck. Yeah I think that suspension would probably hold up to more weight, at least Medium ALICE, and probably Large ALICE. Just to make sure, I'd extend the Velcro beds with some webbing to tie off to some part of your frame, whether you run a ALICE or DE polymer. That way the strain is anchored to the frame, not dependent on Velcro staying mated. Even though you could argue, from an engineering standpoint, that it would take a helluva load to fail; I would still like to see it anchored to the frame, just cuz. And yes, I realize that's exactly what's at the heart of the MR "Futura" harness, but I am actively trying to reduce all Velcro in my builds, so I would use webbing in this app.
Also, you could extend the range of adjustment with webbing, past the limits of the Velcro.
... rig into a 1606 frame (like a jarhead ruck), and also running the DE "mountain" suspension, which is one of the best commercial harnesses available. ... “
Looking at DEI’s website, it looks like the mountain suspension system sits higher on the frame than their “performance” suspension/straps. Are the mountain straps adjustable for me to lower where the straps are mounted? I have a short torso and also want to get the belt higher.
Roger that, the mountain suspension has a "y" strap, that runs from each shoulder strap, down to a single strap that anchors to the frame. It is adjustable for a wide range of lumbar measurements. A lumbar pads fits around it, which can also be set at the desired height (either up high by the frame pocket, or down low towards the hip pad). The two top attachment points are used for top load stabilizer straps. I really like this arrangement because the weight from the ruck is wrapped around your shoulders, instead of being concentrated on the front half of your shoulders. So yeah if you have a shorter torso, then this is the one you want. I would even look at shit-canning their lumbar pad and just running an ALICE style pad, which takes up less room, letting you get the bottom of the pack on top of the belt kit easier.
I don't really get the "performance" suspension. It rigs into the top attachment points, giving no advantage over issue straps. You can't get any lumbar adjustment out of it. Nice pads but that's about it.
LBT has always made purpose-built gear to awesome standards. I’m not surprised they had a MARSOC collaboration.
Yeah the LBT stuff was/is good kit, but could be pricey, unless you pick it up surplus. I thought they would punch up their over-seas division for those not requiring US-made, but not yet. I mean 800 bucks for a 8-pocket ruck is a bit steep, but 400 might have been doable. But 250 surplus is even better.
All the LBT stuff I have seen is still bombproof. Great, except heavier than even old school Eagle. Have they changed their designs of late to lightweight everything?
Wild_Willie posted:Sinister posted:runningwolf posted:
Slap the sustainment pouches off the MOLLE ruck on the side when needed and that can make more room in the main compartment for a good sleeping bag.
Ooooh. Medium with a Claymore top pocket and room for four sustainment pouches. Hmmm.
In the old jungle ruck days we could go 3-5 days before requiring a chow/battery re-sup if you got your water in towns or from wells and streams. Lots of halazone or iodine tabs or bleach. Nowadays everybody goes through a planet's worth of quart and liter bottles per tour.
Water bottle to newer troops means a 1 liter purified water bottle.
Water bottle to older troops means canteen, 1 qt, plastic or metal arctic model.
Lister bags are historically ranked with steel pots and field executions.
Used those South African 2l water bottles?