FNG's attempt at a modernized AK

Mods, if this thread is not up to snuff, feel free to delete it.

Like many others, I have been quite enamored with Travis Haley's AK. Not because it was aesthetically pleasing (which admittedly for an AK, it is), but because it is the modernization of an older weapons platform, executed skillfully.


I mean damn, look at that thing.




So, inspired by that, I went about attempting to make my own modernized AK, except a 7.62x39mm model, rather than Mr. Haley's 5.56mm model. I found a Lancaster AK with black polymer furniture and used that as my base, and started upgrading from there.

The first iteration of upgrades looked like this:


Ultimak gas tube, AK74-type brake, Larue offset mount + Surefire 6P, Aimpoint Micro H-1, Ace receiver block, folding stock adapter, AR stock adapter, and MOE stock. Pretty simple overall. However, there were a few things I didn't like in this configuration. First, the Larue offset mount held the flashlight at the same horizontal plane as the H-1, which obscured my vision a bit. Secondly, I'm overly used to using a VFG to pull the weapon back into my shoulder, which was hard with the smooth lower handguard.

A solution presented itself when I found a used Ultimak lower rail handguard for pretty cheap. That enabled me to mount the flashlight off of the left side, thus lowering it out of the H-1's horizontal plane, and also allowed me to mount a VFG.


The lower rail handguard makes the AK feel noticeably front-heavy. However, that combined with the VFG in place makes the recoil feel much more controllable. I can't quite wrap my thumb up and forward on the handguard the same way that I do with my AR, but it still puts it in position to activate the flashlight and keep the weapon under control. Shots don't get back on target as quickly as with my AR15, but definitely faster than with a stock AK.


The other important upgrade was a bolt carrier made by a buddy of mine, with a left side charging handle. This is the second generation of his bolt carrier. The first gen featured an M16A2 flash hider welded on. This proved too heavy for the recoil, and flew off within 30 shots. Thankfully my buddy had warned me about this, and no damage was done. This version with the brass rod is the second generation, with the bolt carrier drilled and tapped as well as welded, which has proved quite stable and useable.



Close-up of the CH:


When zeroing, it showed acceptable accuracy for an AK-type weapon.
25m, using generic Russian-made 123gr HP ammo.


Size comparison with my multitool, about 1" from furthest shot to furthest shot. 1" at 25m should mean 4" at 100m, about 4MOA. Given a basic AK, Russian ammunition, and a 4MOA optic, I consider this decent.


There are still a couple of odd issues though. First is that Brownells sent me a vented Ultimak gas tube, while this AK's stock gas tube had no vents. Consequently it has had some failure to eject troubles. This was mitigated by chopping some off of the recoil spring, but I think I'll just spare myself the potential worries and order a non-vented Ultimak gas tube. Once I get that and verify it functions like an AK should, I'm going to krylon it.
Second, the pin on the folding stock mechanism has shown a tendency to wobble upwards after prolonged firing. Given a magazine I am able to hammer it back into place rather easily. However, if it becomes too much of a problem, I will just take the folding adapter off and screw the AR stock directly into the Ace receiver block.

So guys, what do you think? Good, bad, mediocre, go smoke yourself cherry?
Original Post
RAT how much did everything run you. I think that is awesome.

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Like it.
I have a AK47 from Henderson Defense with a side folding metal stock that I would like to change for a side folding stock like yours with aCTR. Only problem is i dont know how to do it or if it can be done. Anyway nice rifle and nice build.

LPD "People ask the difference between a leader and a boss. . . The leader works in the open, and the boss in covert. The leader leads, and the boss drives." - Theodore Roosevelt

quote:
Originally posted by lpd5408:
Like it.
I have a AK47 from Henderson Defense with a side folding metal stock that I would like to change for a side folding stock like yours with aCTR. Only problem is i dont know how to do it or if it can be done. Anyway nice rifle and nice build.


If it is the Russian side folder, i.e. an AK-74 stock, then you can't without spending a LOT of money. The rear trunnion is not compatible. If you've got one of the Khyber Pass rifles, i.e. 7.62 AK with an AK74 stock, you'd be better off selling it and getting a WASR-10 or an Arsenal for the conversion. You'll do a lot better financially.

-------------------------

Mark

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Never hint at what you really feel

Teach the children quietly For some day sons and daughters

Will rise up and fight while we stood still

 

Joined:  2/24/2003                          Location:  Nevada, USA

Where does that folding stock adapter come from?

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Looks like this one from Ace.

M4 Six Position, Side Folding, Collapsible Stock
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quote:
Originally posted by sgtfrog:
RAT how much did everything run you. I think that is awesome.


Counting the initial cost of the AK, it came out to around $2k. I know that sounds pretty bad for an AK, but since I had to wait for all the parts to get in stock/be built by my buddy, it was well spaced out over a period of six months. Made it a bit easier to stomach.

Other people have told me "Man, for that price you could get a really nice AR15 or AR10." But the fact is, I have those already and I wanted to do up an AK. It really helps that I don't drink, smoke, or have any expensive hobbies other than weapons.
That looks great... hows the left handed bolt holding up? I assume its not a "Lightning Bolt"?

Cheers, Matt

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Good looking rifle!

Im on my 3rd Ak series rifle. I was dead set on leaving it stock, after all its a fun gun, not for work. Now I see all these rails, sights etc. upgrades. Now I'm like, well if I need, in an emergency, to use it for HD purposes , I need a light. Then I was like, I need a good sling. Thats it..Im stopping there. No optics. Well, then Larue came out with its little red dot and I was like OOOOHHHH!!!!! Make it stop..make it stop!

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 Location: Georgia

I much prefer running my light on an offset mount on the top rail than putting an entire bottom rail on just for that purpose and the slight (particularly so on an AK) advantage of a VFG--look at how much the feel of the weapon is changed for the worse just for to have a place to stick that little broomhandle. I'm of the opinion a PWS FSC47 brake makes up for whatever controllability is lost in sacrificing the VFG, anyway. A beefier pistol grip (like the SAW style ones) vs. the stock AK grips always felt like it helped, too.

I can't recall of the top of my head the offset mount that doesn't interfere with the micro FOV; maybe somebody else will be able to.

My only other thoughts would be to advise a SWIFT lever or similar safety that can be operated with the index finger. All in all, that's my kind of AK, there.

"The Nation that makes a great distinction between its scholars and its warriors will have its thinking done by cowards and its fighting done by fools." - Thucydides

 

Joined: 7/30/03         Location: Appalachia

Rat, if you ever have time can you take some detail pics of the Bolt Carrier, specifically the left hand charging handle? I'll send you a chicken wing if you can hook this up. Big Grin

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Virgil: You are correct, it's not a Lightning Bolt. It's built around the same concept, but it's something that a buddy of mine whipped together in his machine shop. I'd imagine it works about the same.

3P051: I thought that it was a bit galling at first to have to add a whole lower rail just for the VFG and light, like you say. However, the more I handle it, the more I like it. The rail extends the lower handguard a good few inches, which allows me to grip it further out. I will have to look into one of those brakes you describe. I like your idea of a SWIFT lever too. The folding stock would interfere with it, but given the wobbly pin on the folding mechanism, I think I will just take it off and put the AR stock directly to the receiver.

IKICKHIPPIES: I will get you some more detailed pictures when I get home on Monday. Smile
quote:
It really helps that I don't drink, smoke, or have any expensive hobbies other than weapons.

Good. Stick with guns. It's hard to spend a lot of money on guns and shooting.



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IKICKHIPPIES here are those close-up shots of the bolt carrier, like I promised:




This is as far back as it will travel during recoil. Nothing to worry about unless if you're shooting with the stock all the way collapsed and in a super-bladed traditional target stance.




mcad33: I appreciate the offer, but I have a Krebs enhanced safety on order already. Smile
(Also have a non-vented gas tube on order as well, hopefully that will solve the intermittent failure to eject problems.)

exporter: Not putting a Tapco SAW grip on because it feels too large in my hands. And well. . . Tapco.
quote:
Originally posted by Arc_Light:
quote:
Originally posted by exporter:
You haven't upgraded to a Tapco SAW grip yet?


It's so rarely that you hear Tapco and upgrade in the same sentence.


Yep- but that grip rocks.
For a cheaper method of gaining a vertical foregrip and the ability to attach a light, take a Romanian "G-Grip" lower handguard and simple bolt a piece of M1913 to the side.
"I don't make things difficult. That's the way they get, all by themselves."
-Detective Martin Riggs
quote:
Originally posted by exporter:
quote:
Originally posted by Arc_Light:
quote:
Originally posted by exporter:
You haven't upgraded to a Tapco SAW grip yet?


It's so rarely that you hear Tapco and upgrade in the same sentence.


Yep- but that grip rocks.


I have them on my AK's and firmly believe they're one thing that even Tapco can't fuck up-- they're sturdy grips.

That said, it's up to personal preference if you like 'em or not. For my part, I feel the larger grip allows me to control the rifle better. I just can't exert a decent amount of control through the tiny, thin, AK-style grips.

"The Nation that makes a great distinction between its scholars and its warriors will have its thinking done by cowards and its fighting done by fools." - Thucydides

 

Joined: 7/30/03         Location: Appalachia

quote:
Originally posted by Fail-Safe:
For a cheaper method of gaining a vertical foregrip and the ability to attach a light, take a Romanian "G-Grip" lower handguard and simple bolt a piece of M1913 to the side.


I have one available if someone wants to try it.
With regards to AK grips, there are alternatives. If you want to keep it "AK", there are fat, wooden grips available that still look traditional AK, but give you something much more substantial to grab onto. The plastic Yugo grip is a bit bigger and more ergonomic than the standard, skinny AK grip, but not as much as the fat wooden grip. And, my favorite, the Galil pistol grip is a drop-in swap as well. Falcon even makes Ergo grips for the AK if you prefer that look.

Try Ironwood Designs. And if you don't want the stained, wood finish, they can always be painted black to match plastic furniture.

Flashlight attachments: If you go with a Romanian VFG handguard and don't want to bolt a rail to wood, you can always get the Ultimak gas tube rail and run an offset mount from that.

-------------------------

Mark

Swear allegiance to the flag Whatever flag they offer

Never hint at what you really feel

Teach the children quietly For some day sons and daughters

Will rise up and fight while we stood still

 

Joined:  2/24/2003                          Location:  Nevada, USA

quote:
If you go with a Yugo VFG handguard and don't want to bolt a rail to wood, you can always get the Ultimak gas tube rail and run an offset mount from that.

+1 best setup i have found for that purpose so far.


Stay tuned for several upgrades to existing weapons in the Eurotrash thread mid Oct Dorsai Wink

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03, what offset mount is that? I tried a couple different version and ended up modifying polymer ones to work for me; the one you have was the one I was trying to recall which brand it was.

"The Nation that makes a great distinction between its scholars and its warriors will have its thinking done by cowards and its fighting done by fools." - Thucydides

 

Joined: 7/30/03         Location: Appalachia

quote:
03, what offset mount is that? I tried a couple different version and ended up modifying polymer ones to work for me; the one you have was the one I was trying to recall which brand it was.

Its the Vltor offset scout mount.
http://www.vltor.com/vltor-mountables.htm
No issues so far.

"Stay angry my friends"-the most dangerous man in the world.

 

"All hat, not much cowboy" Big Sky Brewing Co.

 

" I am Godzilla, YOU are Japan" -Critical Bill

quote:
I think Vltor has a throwlever version of that mount out or coming out which is what I'd probably opt for if buying now/soon.

._________________________________________________


I would as well if i was in the market. Nice blaster Rob.

"Stay angry my friends"-the most dangerous man in the world.

 

"All hat, not much cowboy" Big Sky Brewing Co.

 

" I am Godzilla, YOU are Japan" -Critical Bill

Beautiful stick...I've become enamored with the utilitarian efficiency and brutish simplicity of the AK platform as of late, so much so that I'm slapping together a project AK.

Yours is pretty much exactly what I'm aiming for.

Once again, Beautiful AK, Rat.

"...and he that hath no sword, let him sell his cloak and buy one" -Luke 22:36 

quote:
Originally posted by The Rat:
Mods, if this thread is not up to snuff, feel free to delete it.

Like many others, I have been quite enamored with Travis Haley's AK. Not because it was aesthetically pleasing (which admittedly for an AK, it is), but because it is the modernization of an older weapons platform, executed skillfully.


I mean damn, look at that thing.




So, inspired by that, I went about attempting to make my own modernized AK, except a 7.62x39mm model, rather than Mr. Haley's 5.56mm model. I found a Lancaster AK with black polymer furniture and used that as my base, and started upgrading from there.

The first iteration of upgrades looked like this:


Ultimak gas tube, AK74-type brake, Larue offset mount + Surefire 6P, Aimpoint Micro H-1, Ace receiver block, folding stock adapter, AR stock adapter, and MOE stock. Pretty simple overall. However, there were a few things I didn't like in this configuration. First, the Larue offset mount held the flashlight at the same horizontal plane as the H-1, which obscured my vision a bit. Secondly, I'm overly used to using a VFG to pull the weapon back into my shoulder, which was hard with the smooth lower handguard.

A solution presented itself when I found a used Ultimak lower rail handguard for pretty cheap. That enabled me to mount the flashlight off of the left side, thus lowering it out of the H-1's horizontal plane, and also allowed me to mount a VFG.


The lower rail handguard makes the AK feel noticeably front-heavy. However, that combined with the VFG in place makes the recoil feel much more controllable. I can't quite wrap my thumb up and forward on the handguard the same way that I do with my AR, but it still puts it in position to activate the flashlight and keep the weapon under control. Shots don't get back on target as quickly as with my AR15, but definitely faster than with a stock AK.


The other important upgrade was a bolt carrier made by a buddy of mine, with a left side charging handle. This is the second generation of his bolt carrier. The first gen featured an M16A2 flash hider welded on. This proved too heavy for the recoil, and flew off within 30 shots. Thankfully my buddy had warned me about this, and no damage was done. This version with the brass rod is the second generation, with the bolt carrier drilled and tapped as well as welded, which has proved quite stable and useable.



Close-up of the CH:


When zeroing, it showed acceptable accuracy for an AK-type weapon.
25m, using generic Russian-made 123gr HP ammo.


Size comparison with my multitool, about 1" from furthest shot to furthest shot. 1" at 25m should mean 4" at 100m, about 4MOA. Given a basic AK, Russian ammunition, and a 4MOA optic, I consider this decent.


There are still a couple of odd issues though. First is that Brownells sent me a vented Ultimak gas tube, while this AK's stock gas tube had no vents. Consequently it has had some failure to eject troubles. This was mitigated by chopping some off of the recoil spring, but I think I'll just spare myself the potential worries and order a non-vented Ultimak gas tube. Once I get that and verify it functions like an AK should, I'm going to krylon it.
Second, the pin on the folding stock mechanism has shown a tendency to wobble upwards after prolonged firing. Given a magazine I am able to hammer it back into place rather easily. However, if it becomes too much of a problem, I will just take the folding adapter off and screw the AR stock directly into the Ace receiver block.

So guys, what do you think? Good, bad, mediocre, go smoke yourself cherry?


I am curious as to what kind of AK Travis Haley used when making his. The front sight appears to be different. I know it is chambered in 5.56 but it it a different model or something as well. been kicking around an AK project for a while now and like the way that one looks. Particularly the way the stock and grip attach. Any info on that?

The one hope for the vicious, is to not hope for mercy. If you can read this, thank a teacher. Since it's in English, thank a soldier

quote:
I am curious as to what kind of AK Travis Haley used when making his. The front sight appears to be different. I know it is chambered in 5.56 but it it a different model or something as well. been kicking around an AK project for a while now and like the way that one looks. Particularly the way the stock and grip attach. Any info on that?


Some info on the front sight.
http://www.avtomats-in-action.com/parts7.html

Stock appears to be attached using ACE Ltd. parts.
http://riflestocks.com/catalog/index.php?cPath=93

"Stay angry my friends"-the most dangerous man in the world.

 

"All hat, not much cowboy" Big Sky Brewing Co.

 

" I am Godzilla, YOU are Japan" -Critical Bill



Heres my left side charger ak. Need to add the right side handle back on it for left side shooting. Has a beryl type rail with rear mounted flip up peep sight and a trijicon tr-21 mounted. The light mount is the viking tactics/g3 combo. Had a blackjack selector lever but could not find anymore so I had a selector tab manufactured that you just drill 2 holes and crush the supplied rivets with. The 74 style arsenal comp cuts the recoil way down. Vltor ak tube for adjusting when wearing body armour. The grip is a califonia thing that allows drop free mags.
quote:
Has a beryl type rail with rear mounted flip up peep sight

I just scored one of those myself for a project,how is your holding up man?

"Stay angry my friends"-the most dangerous man in the world.

 

"All hat, not much cowboy" Big Sky Brewing Co.

 

" I am Godzilla, YOU are Japan" -Critical Bill

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