FNG's attempt at a modernized AK

Originally Posted by ElbowsNC:

 

Now if a U.S. manufacturer would build a 100% quality AK with enough modern features to justify buying it.

 

 


Agreed. I'm tempted by the Sig 556R, but haven't read enough good about them yet to get one.

 

The nice thing about the Toth and Magpul magazines is parts count for 922 compliance. Though I make sure to be compliant with import mags anyways.

______________________________________________________

 

"Violence, naked force, has settled more issues in history than has any other factor, and the contrary opinion is wishful thinking at its worst. Breeds that forget this basic truth have always paid for it with their lives and freedoms." - R. Heinlen

 

Joined:  1/30/05           Location: Graham, Wa

Originally Posted by dan187:
Originally Posted by ElbowsNC:

 

Now if a U.S. manufacturer would build a 100% quality AK with enough modern features to justify buying it.

 

 


Agreed. I'm tempted by the Sig 556R, but haven't read enough good about them yet to get one.

 

The nice thing about the Toth and Magpul magazines is parts count for 922 compliance. Though I make sure to be compliant with import mags anyways.

In my humble opinion, don't bother....15k+ rounds and two bolts (extractor counts with Sig) not worth it. I moved on to modernized VZ58 variants. 

" We sleep safe in our beds because rough men stand ready in the night to visit violence on those who would do us harm. " -George Orwell Celer, Silens, Mortalitas "Swift, Silent, Deadly"

Originally Posted by 4track:

I find the features of these Toth Tool magazines more desirable than the US Palm mags, and they might just give Magpul a run for their money, too.


Anyone gotten hold of the Toth magazines in the last 3 months or so? They've been sold out since I first saw them mentioned here, and I put in for the restock notification. Just wondering if they've been coming out in small batches, and I'm still a ways down the list, or if they've really been completely out of stock for that long.

Dave
Originally Posted by Blackwind:
Originally Posted by dan187:
Originally Posted by ElbowsNC:

 

Now if a U.S. manufacturer would build a 100% quality AK with enough modern features to justify buying it.

 

 


Agreed. I'm tempted by the Sig 556R, but haven't read enough good about them yet to get one.

 

The nice thing about the Toth and Magpul magazines is parts count for 922 compliance. Though I make sure to be compliant with import mags anyways.

In my humble opinion, don't bother....15k+ rounds and two bolts (extractor counts with Sig) not worth it. I moved on to modernized VZ58 variants. 

 


 

Czechpoint?

______________________________________________________

 

"Violence, naked force, has settled more issues in history than has any other factor, and the contrary opinion is wishful thinking at its worst. Breeds that forget this basic truth have always paid for it with their lives and freedoms." - R. Heinlen

 

Joined:  1/30/05           Location: Graham, Wa

I originally wanted to go the Czechpoint route but decided the expense didn't justify the end point. I went with Century VZ2008's and upgraded and had the tab welded on to the carrier (60 bucks ea) etc. Great shooters.

" We sleep safe in our beds because rough men stand ready in the night to visit violence on those who would do us harm. " -George Orwell Celer, Silens, Mortalitas "Swift, Silent, Deadly"

Agreed...I was tempted by the "new", "revamped" Sig 556xi Russian model...but then I've already seen a half dozen horrible failures of the standard 556xi in 5.56...so I'll be passing on that.  Shame, they made some smart design decisions (lighter, more ambi-, shorter piston system, replaced the old sh_tty stock etc.).

 

If I could design a simple standard U.S. AK I'd start with the following:

-Folding AR stock as standard (menu allowing purchaser to select from a few stocks)

-Stamped receiver, no Russian optic mount (waste of weight/space)

-Include a Kreb's or similar retaining plate inside

-Include a Kreb's or similar selector switch

-Combination gas block/front sight

-Make available with excellent rugged barrels, and available in 16" or 14.5"+pinned.

-Magpul or US Palm grip

-Two stage trigger (I find the two-stage Arsenal completely fine)

-Quality Keymod or modular railed handguard up front.

-Optional railed receiver cover (ala Texas WS)

-Tromix or similarly enlarged charging handle.

-Quality finish, decent warranty.

-$1300 or so, MSRP.  All completely do-able.  There is no reason why this couldn't exist.  It could likely be sold for even less, but I'm taking into account the current gun sales atmosphere and prices etc.

 

I've essentially built my two AK's as above, but see zero reasons why this couldn't all be done simply and efficiently at the factory level.  Kreb's took a swing and a miss with their new VEPR based guns.  High price, heavy VEPR milled body, stupid HK diopter sight set-up on the back (not a fan).  Other than that, almost exactly what I think should be offered.

My 21st Century AK would be set up as follows:

 

-Hinged top cover like the AKSU, but move the peep rear sight all the way to the rear of the cover and give it a picatinny rail. That will stiffen the cover. 

-Button lock for the top cover like the Yugo M70.  Shorten the back nub on the recoil spring so it no longer has any interaction with the top cover.  So no hole in the back.

-Move the charging handle to the left side of the receiver.

-Completely replace the selector.  No big lever on right side.  Ambi safety/selector like the M4.

-Integrate the front sight base and gas block. 

-Flash suppressor or muzzle brake.  Standard 1/2x28 thread pattern.

-Extend the handguard to the FSB/gasblock similar to the Valmet.  Keymod option.

-Alternatively, really bring it into the 21st Century and do an extended, free-float handguard.  One possible way would be to extend the receiver forward and picatinny topped cover that goes over a minimal gas block and gas tube.

-Alternative buttstock.  I have a nostalgic attachment to a FAL/Galil type folding buttstock, but an adjustable length of pull is too useful.  A standard AK receiver is pretty flexible for alternative buttstocks that fit to the rear trunnion.  So everyone has options.

-Magpul AK pistol grip.

-------------------------

Mark

Swear allegiance to the flag Whatever flag they offer

Never hint at what you really feel

Teach the children quietly For some day sons and daughters

Will rise up and fight while we stood still

 

Joined:  2/24/2003                          Location:  Nevada, USA

Yep, I debated on the hinged cover...if they could find a 100% solid way to run a picatinny rail - that would be ideal.  Personally I'm too comfortable with the AK selector (well, a Kreb's model) and still really prefer my charging handle on the right.

The AK-12 has been taking a serious pasting lately.  Rumours are circling that the AEK model may win the bid instead.  Curious to see what they choose.  The 12 looks functional but ugly as f_ck.  And a lot of the features could have been carried out in a much easier fashion.

 

Most of the Russian "high speed" fellas are already running a host of tactical-doo-dads on their guns as it is.

 

Serious question, because I can be dumb as a truck sometimes:

Why the love for the front sight / gas block combo? For the short barrel guns, sure, but for the standard AKM, why give up the sight radius? When it comes to improving the AK design, what makes it an improvement?
Joined: 12/2009
Location: California, Republic of

FSB/gasblock combo is one less item hung on the barrel.  It reduces weight.  It reduces the potential to snag the front sight on vegetation, etc.  it isn't necessary by any means and I don't like it if you retain the rear sight in the amidships position.

-------------------------

Mark

Swear allegiance to the flag Whatever flag they offer

Never hint at what you really feel

Teach the children quietly For some day sons and daughters

Will rise up and fight while we stood still

 

Joined:  2/24/2003                          Location:  Nevada, USA

Originally Posted by bantam1:

Mark,

 

It sounds like you are describing the new AK-12.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AK-12

Hah!  Yes, in overall concept, but the pictured result (in my mind) is much cleaner and better looking than the AK-12.  In fact, just to illustrate the difference, mine would be the AK-36-24-36.

-------------------------

Mark

Swear allegiance to the flag Whatever flag they offer

Never hint at what you really feel

Teach the children quietly For some day sons and daughters

Will rise up and fight while we stood still

 

Joined:  2/24/2003                          Location:  Nevada, USA

Tried it out today for the first time in SBR form, runs like an escaped convict: http://vidmg.photobucket.com/a...42/Guns/MVI_0862.mp4

 

The Manticore Nightbrake keeps it very controllable. Maybe a slight push to the right, but not much rise. Was able to keep rounds on an IPSC silhouette at 25m.

Still waiting on an Attero Arms Aimpoint Micro mount, a Krebs safety, and the left hand charging handle mod.

Sidenote, the IWC 2 to 1 sling adapter is perfect for this thing.

You picking up that slick left-hand top-cover?  That looked like the very best charging handle mod I've seen (I don't like left-hand charging but it's slick and unobtrusive).  Good looking blast you have there.

 

This is the only left-hand charging I'd consider:

Nah, I found a guy who does TIG welding on the local gun forums and dropped off a couple spare bolt carriers to him, to have left hand charging handles affixed in the same way that my camper AK currently has set up. Want to be standardized and all that. It's not exactly a complicated procedure, so I'm hoping it'll come out all right.

Originally Posted by Blackwind:

I originally wanted to go the Czechpoint route but decided the expense didn't justify the end point. I went with Century VZ2008's and upgraded and had the tab welded on to the carrier (60 bucks ea) etc. Great shooters.

I don't know alot about the VZ58 style rifles, what is the tab that you are talking about?

For the price (for the century ones) I have been thinking about ordering one myself.

______________________________________________________

 

"Violence, naked force, has settled more issues in history than has any other factor, and the contrary opinion is wishful thinking at its worst. Breeds that forget this basic truth have always paid for it with their lives and freedoms." - R. Heinlen

 

Joined:  1/30/05           Location: Graham, Wa

Czechpoint has a patented fix for the carrier gremlins where they weld a metal tab on the bolt carrier which addresses the problem. Century can't do the fix...due to the patent. They did at one time and were put on notice for it. 

" We sleep safe in our beds because rough men stand ready in the night to visit violence on those who would do us harm. " -George Orwell Celer, Silens, Mortalitas "Swift, Silent, Deadly"

Originally Posted by The Rat:

Welp. This happened.

 

 

 

 

 

Polish Hellpup pistol. E-form came back this morning, had the stock on it within 5 minutes of it hitting my inbox. I test fired it prior to applying for the stamp and had no issues other than when I deliberately limp wristed the shit out of it. (Left hand holding handguard lightly, right hand only putting the finger on the trigger without gripping the grip at all.) Going to shoot it some more tomorrow, but I don't anticipate any issues.

 

Oh yeah, had to do one slight mod right out of the box. Every once in a while when dry firing/cycling, the hammer would follow the bolt down. After some googling, I found Nodak's site saying something about putting a bevel on the hammer. I did that with a bench grinder and then no more issues.

 

Eventually going to get a Krebs safety, left hand charging handle and Aimpoint Micro mounted on this thing.

Rat,

What buttstock is that?

-------------------------

Mark

Swear allegiance to the flag Whatever flag they offer

Never hint at what you really feel

Teach the children quietly For some day sons and daughters

Will rise up and fight while we stood still

 

Joined:  2/24/2003                          Location:  Nevada, USA

The shorty is now complete. Left hand charging handle (test fired, didn't break off in anyone's face), Krebs safety, Aimpoint Micro and Attero Arms mount. Still fits in the violin case when the stock is folded. Now I just need to zero it and it'll be good to go.

 

Is the hellpup made with a standard rear trunion that is just missing the stock tang?

 

Oh, and nice of you to get your cock in good focus for that last picture.

______________________________________________________

 

"Violence, naked force, has settled more issues in history than has any other factor, and the contrary opinion is wishful thinking at its worst. Breeds that forget this basic truth have always paid for it with their lives and freedoms." - R. Heinlen

 

Joined:  1/30/05           Location: Graham, Wa

Pretty much. I thought I could just drill/tap the back plate, but when I took a punch to it to mark it, the back plate just fell off. It was only held in place by a few shitty welds on the top end. So I dremeled down the remaining weld and installed an Ace internal receiver block.

 

And hey you know how it is with the 11B types, always trying to trick people into looking at their cocks!

Good to know, should I ever look into another short AK.

 

I'm a former 11B myself, dark humor is the best humor.

______________________________________________________

 

"Violence, naked force, has settled more issues in history than has any other factor, and the contrary opinion is wishful thinking at its worst. Breeds that forget this basic truth have always paid for it with their lives and freedoms." - R. Heinlen

 

Joined:  1/30/05           Location: Graham, Wa

I've been following this thread for a while, but I can't remember if I shared mine. 

 

This is my Bulgarian home-built 74.  Nothing radical...simple but effective mods. Krebs selector, TD grip, Magpul RVG (cut down by about an inch), Aimpoint R-1 (picked up cheap when they were discontinued), MI rail, BFG sling and RMFL, G2X in a gen 1 Viking mount, Manticore flash hider. 

 

Probably the simplest and cheapest ($0) mod done was to widen the rear sight notch with a small, round file.  Anybody can do that.

 

This is set up very similar to my AR. Sling, light and VG are all in the same position on each gun. 

 

Before:

____________________"Requiring the police to do and be everything for everyone at any time doesn’t make sense. If you expect cops to be able to stop bleeding; start hearts; change tires; calm the irrational; comfort the heartbroken; control schizophrenics when doctors can’t; straighten out unruly students when five teachers can’t; make life-and-death decisions in split seconds; learn city, state and federal case laws and be able to understand, remember and execute the intricacies of over 2,000 general orders in the blink of an eye while engaged in bizarrely chaotic and dangerous situations in the middle of the night …We may, as a society, be nuts." - Jim Glennon

Oh, I also removed the bayonet/cleaning rod lugs and I use "hairpin clips" to retain the trigger pins:

____________________"Requiring the police to do and be everything for everyone at any time doesn’t make sense. If you expect cops to be able to stop bleeding; start hearts; change tires; calm the irrational; comfort the heartbroken; control schizophrenics when doctors can’t; straighten out unruly students when five teachers can’t; make life-and-death decisions in split seconds; learn city, state and federal case laws and be able to understand, remember and execute the intricacies of over 2,000 general orders in the blink of an eye while engaged in bizarrely chaotic and dangerous situations in the middle of the night …We may, as a society, be nuts." - Jim Glennon

It shoots well. Never a hiccup.

 

I really like how my hand placement is so similar to my AR.  I use the VG the same way on both guns, and the light is close to the same position.  My support hand just gets out a bit further on my middy AR.

 

When I first "modernized" it, I tried an AFG.  I hoped I would like it, but it just didn't work for me.

____________________"Requiring the police to do and be everything for everyone at any time doesn’t make sense. If you expect cops to be able to stop bleeding; start hearts; change tires; calm the irrational; comfort the heartbroken; control schizophrenics when doctors can’t; straighten out unruly students when five teachers can’t; make life-and-death decisions in split seconds; learn city, state and federal case laws and be able to understand, remember and execute the intricacies of over 2,000 general orders in the blink of an eye while engaged in bizarrely chaotic and dangerous situations in the middle of the night …We may, as a society, be nuts." - Jim Glennon

Got the Micro zeroed today. Cut my group sizes at 25m in half. Didn't even check 100m with the original iron sights since I hadn't zeroed them. (The AA mount was going to replace them anyways.)

 

100m group size was 5-6" or so, which is what I'd expect from a rifle like this.

 

Pictured with my 11.5" AR. Just two 11.5" guns, chillin' together.

Originally Posted by The Rat:

...two 11.5" guns, chillin' spooning together...

 

 

Looks good.

 

I am jealous.

                                                                                             ____________________________________________________________

                                   

                                                                                              "Hokey religions and ancient weapons are no match

                                                                                                 for a good blaster at your side."        -Cpt. Han Solo

                                                                                            ____________________________________________________________

 

Joined: 3/20/05 4:14 PM        Location:  North Carolina

You'll need to find one of that babe workin' it with no costume for when you first mount a can on there. 

 

 

Nicely done.

 

Ek

Personally, I'm interested in keeping other people from building Utopia, because the more you believe you can create heaven on earth the more likely you are to set up guillotines in the public square to hasten the process. -- James Lileks

"Be the lack of Bullshit you wish to see in the world around you."

Joined: 8/12/05 6:56 PM                        Location: Oklahoma (not by choice)

If anyone felt a disturbance in the force yesterday, don't worry. It was just a bunch of AK purists having heart attacks/aneurysms/involuntary bowel movements for no apparent reason they could discern.

 

This is the cause.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Feels like this thread has finally come full circle for me. This is my "one nice AK" that I started out with. Only in true parts-swapping fashion, the only items that have remained with it from start to finish have been the stock, buffer tube, pistol grip and Aimpoint Micro.

Additions on this round of upgrades were:

-Chop/pin/weld Surefire brake via EK's gunsmith

-Midwest Industries AK-SS-E handguard

-Surefire 620V

-LDI ITAL

-AFG

 

I moved the 620V and ITAL over to this from my SPR, given that at night, my SPR wouldn't do anything that my other IR-capable guns would, other than be heavier and more awkward.

 

Test fired and zeroed it yesterday, both the optic and the laser. Flawless as far as reliability goes. Recoil feels much less compared to a regular AK as well, both suppressed and unsuppressed. Accuracy is what I'd expect out of an AK shooting Ukrainian ammo. POI shift is minimal, as shown above.

 

I keep looking at it and thinking to myself "I can't fucking believe that's an AK."

 

edit: Oh what the shit, there's no way in hell I've made enough posts on lightfighter to make White Ops title. Some kind of wonkiness with that forum migration/upgrade a little while back maybe?

Wow Rat that looks great. Once I find the funds that will be exactly what I want. Oh and I have to move to an SBR/Suppressor friendly state too. How do you like the AFG on it compared to a normal foregrip? I've handled one on an AR and I didn't care for the angle of it. Is it any better feeling on the AK?

--------------------------------------

Joined: 9/1/12

I dig the AFG on longer handguards when I have the option. I'm short, so my version of arms extended tends to leave a little room in front of it with which to brace against barricades if need be. The only time that didn't work out was on my Steyr AUG CQC. No room whatsoever in front of the AFG, so I had to put on a handstop kit instead.

Since this is a thread on "Modernized" or "Upgraded" AK's Larry Vickers Russian Alpha Clone AK-106CR should fit right in. He built it right after coming back last summer from his trip to Russia.

 

 

Details:
- Arsenal SLR-106CR
- Texas Armament Railed Receiver Cover
- Aimpoint T-1
- Larue T-1 Mount
- Russian Zenit Extended Rail 
- Survival Corps AK-100 Side Folding Collapsing AR Stock Adapter
- Krebs Extended Safety Lever
- Tromix Extended Charging Handle Knob
- Bulgarian 4-piece Krinkov brake
- Wilcox Industries Raptor laser w/white light
- Magpul CTR stock
- Tango Down / US Palm AK grip
- Magpul vert grip
- Blue Force Gear Vickers Sling
- Polish Mag

 

Some of the Russian SOF AK's Larry photographed on his trip. They are a mix of 5.45 & 7.62x39mm:

 

 

 

 

Paul,

 

Thanks for posting. 

 

Any idea if the LAV has had issues with that top cover? I was looking at them, but apparently, most of the railed top covers have bigtime issues with return to zero (or lack thereof) if the topcover is removed for cleaning. 

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