quote:
Originally posted by Ground Pounder:
How well do you think a stock like that would hold up on a Saiga 12 shotgun? I really like that AK BTW


From the looks of it, the rear trunnion on Haley's AK is the same as the one I am using on my Saiga12. It works extremely well.

I know that HDI has done several other Saiga conversions in addition to mine with different buttstock configurations. The folding stock set-up that Rat has on his AK works on the Saiga12 also, as does the VLtor tube like mcad33 has on his.
quote:
Originally posted by Arc_Light:
quote:
Originally posted by Fail-Safe:
For a cheaper method of gaining a vertical foregrip and the ability to attach a light, take a Romanian "G-Grip" lower handguard and simple bolt a piece of M1913 to the side.


I have one available if someone wants to try it.


I'd swap you something for it. That way I wont feel bad if I fuck it up. Gimme a shout via email in my profile.
"I don't make things difficult. That's the way they get, all by themselves."
-Detective Martin Riggs
The rail is holding up well. Took it to an lms ak course and did several 3 gun matches with it. So far its been good. Had the dph basic rail , the krebs and this one is better hands down do to the lower sight plain,quick detach and price point. Also if any one needs an extended selector tab I have them for 12.00 each . Can be added to your stock selector lever on aks,galils,saigas. Simple install.
I'm working on upgrading an AK at home also. Since mine is an underfolder, not much I can do to the stock. I went with the Krebs KCI quad-rail fore-end for Ak rifles (cat #70). It's got the cut already milled for the stock to fold into. That left me without much room on the bottom rail for a vertical grip. If I put it at the back of the rail, any normal sized grip left me with mag removal problems and issues with folding the stock. The forward portion made the rifle feel unwieldy to me. I ended up with another of Krebs items - the KCI fore-end grip adapter (cat # 57). It allowed me to offset my foregrip enough to clear both mag and stock. It also gave me a nice place to mount a light on the side - the back end fits nicely into the curved section above the foregrip. Link to Krebs: http://www.krebscustom.com/Par...lashnikovParts.shtml

I went with an old school chinese grip that I pulled off one of our AK parts guns over here. It's small, but seems quite ergonomic and fits my hand well. Some of the older Polytechs had similar red plastic grips.

That's about as far as I got with mine prior to heading back over to my work location. After getting home this time, I'm planning on adding an Aimpoint and a new flash-hider to the front. Then testing it out and painting it up.

Thanks for the very informative thread, Rat.
quote:
Originally posted by m1371:
quote:
Originally posted by Ground Pounder:
How well do you think a stock like that would hold up on a Saiga 12 shotgun? I really like that AK BTW


From the looks of it, the rear trunnion on Haley's AK is the same as the one I am using on my Saiga12. It works extremely well.

I know that HDI has done several other Saiga conversions in addition to mine with different buttstock configurations. The folding stock set-up that Rat has on his AK works on the Saiga12 also, as does the VLtor tube like mcad33 has on his.


HK sights, a Galil fore end and a UBR on an Saiga? That's flipping cool.
mcad33,
Could you elaborate a bit on your irons with that rail? Some close up pictures would be appreciated. I am interested in the same model of rail, and I am curious how a mounted iron sight would align with the front sight (not about to give up my Big Dot).

Thank you, safe shooting.

----------------------------- "Its not a tourist attraction; its blood bought ground." - Duke, speaking of Ground Zero

quote:
I ended up with another of Krebs items - the KCI fore-end grip adapter (cat # 57). It allowed me to offset my foregrip enough to clear both mag and stock. It also gave me a nice place to mount a light on the side - the back end fits nicely into the curved section above the foregrip. Link to Krebs: http://www.krebscustom.com/Par...lashnikovParts.shtml

Stikjock,
im running the same adapter on my PKM with a vert grip but have not tried it on an AK as of yet. Hows it working out for you?

"Stay angry my friends"-the most dangerous man in the world.

 

"All hat, not much cowboy" Big Sky Brewing Co.

 

" I am Godzilla, YOU are Japan" -Critical Bill

03Humpalot - I only took it to the range once before coming back over here. Seemed to work fine - I use an odd left side thumb push for the light switch, so I like the positioning. Didn't get in the way of mag changes or stock folding/unfolding.

I'm using one of SOGs graphite vertical grips on it.

I didn't run any fast mag drills or really get it going - just a lazy day at the range.

Intention is to get the rig right and then use it on my Yugo M70 over here. Means it's not as flat (for stowing it in the back of the plane), but it will give me a little more control if I need it.
Anyone know who makes the AK-to-collapsible-AR stock adapter that Travis uses (not the OP's slightly different folding-and collapsing version)? Is it VLtor's model?

Thanks.

Will

__________________________

"Deserve's got nothing to do with it." WM

"You just got killed by a Daewoo Lanos, m***er-f***er!" Red (Pineapple Express)

Welp, here's the third round of upgrades.





Took off the folding mechanism since I was tired of hammering the pin back in, and attached the AR stock adapter directly to the receiver block. Added an ACS stock. Added a Krebs enhanced safety, with a few modifications. It was quite stiff when I first installed it, so I did some dremeling. Now it's easy for me to manipulate the safety lever with only my index finger and do what Gabe Suarez calls "masturbating the safety."

The enhanced safety combined with the left side charging handle makes it easy to lock the bolt to the rear for whatever reason. I think that particular mod would work great on a Saiga-12, since their mags are so difficult to insert on a closed bolt.

Also replaced the vented Ultimak gas tube with a non-vented one, and it works much better now. Still had maybe four stovepipes out of about 240 rounds though. At least those are easier to clear than the failure to ejects it was having before, where the brass would get stuck inside of the receiver.

Next stop, krylon. Hopefully after I krylon this beast and apply some lube, it will not have any more malfunctions. We shall see.
Stock length comparison because I was bored.



I was holding the standard Warsaw-length AK stock at the point where it would be normally attached to the receiver. The ACS is just a slight bit shorter, while the MOE stock (being held where it would be in the shortest position on the buffer tube) is a full inch shorter. The folding adapter added about 3/4" to the length while it was on there.
AMERICAN CAPITALIST HAMFISTED DREMEL WORK TRIUMPHS OVER SOVIET MANUFACTURING!

After a whole lot of trouble shooting, I found out what was wrong with this AK. I followed some advice of starting with the AK in stock configuration (not counting lower rail handguard or buttstock since these have no bearing on how the weapon operates), taking the firing pin out, and hand cycling 5 mags through. This was repeated with each new piece of 'bling' added. I also had just put in a new extractor, since I thought that was what was causing the issues.

Started with the standard bolt carrier, no dust cover on. No issues resulted.

Next, went with the left hand charging handle bolt carrier, no dust cover on. No issues.

Next, added Ultimak tube, no dust cover. No issues.

Finally when I added the dust cover, some of the same jams started showing themselves again. That is, rounds were going to the left of the bolt and bolt carrier, with a round was in the chamber as well.
Some examples:




So I took a closer look at the ejection pattern with the rifle in this configuration, and noticed that with the dust cover on, a good fraction of the rounds were ejecting anemically, bouncing off of the edge of the dust cover and ending up about a foot forward of me, at the two o'clock or so. A marked contrast to the standard AK ejection of tossing rounds out vigorously to the 4-5 o'clock.

I took a closer look at the dust cover, and saw that the area directly above where the tip of the safety sits when it the 'safe' position was all gnarled up and bent inwards. It also showed signs of repeated impacts. I tried cycling a few more rounds relatively slowly, while paying attention to what was happening in there. It seemed that the rounds were bouncing off of the dust cover and back into the action.

I was told that this might have to do with the angle of the ejector blade. But, since I didn't feel like messing with the ejector blade itself, instead I took a dremel to the dust cover. I figured if I messed something up, it would be cheaper and easier to replace the dust cover than the ejector blade.


Horrible and hamfisted, I know. "But dust and debris can get in there" some might say. Well yeah, but I don't think it's going to make a difference given the huge slot cut into the left side of the dust cover for the double charging handle.

I repeated the dry cycling test with the dust cover now properly mutilated and had zero issues, and the ejection pattern was solidly to the 4-5 o'clock.

But of course, this was no true confirmation, a test fire was needed. So today, I went out to the range and fired off a full combat load of 7 mags.

ZERO ISSUES.

The funny part was, out of the seven mags fired, only two were from the standing position. The rest were from the prone, magazine supported position. Still zero issues. (I had previously thought that resting the mag on the ground was helping with the malfunctions.

The final step of my horrible blasphemy towards Mr. Kalashnikov's design was to apply krylon, now that it was finally working properly.


(Not the best pictures since the sun had just set over the mountains unfortunately.)

So there you have it.

Lessons learned from this experience:
AKs are not drop-in lego modifiable like ARs are. Test fire that shit before you add new components. Hell, before you add ANY components.
Don't buy a Lancaster. Get a Saiga or an Arsenal instead if you're gonna mod something up.
Don't get so honed in on the idea that ONE THING is making it jam up. It might be something else entirely.
quote:
Originally posted by Will Munny:
Anyone know who makes the AK-to-collapsible-AR stock adapter that Travis uses (not the OP's slightly different folding-and collapsing version)? Is it VLtor's model?

Thanks.

Will


Looks like a welded in back-plate and a pig-nose adapter for the AR receiver extension.

Famous last words..."Hold my beer, watch this"!

Nicely done and very informative... makes me wish I had one to toy around with.

==================================== "Just like your forebears in mud, dust, and ditch, You'll march and you'll fight and you'll drink and you'll bitch." -Anonymous British Soldier "Afghanistan (with apologies to Kipling)" Do not pray for easy lives. Pray to be stronger men. -John F. Kennedy What's up dog? I killed you. - Kenneth Powers MFCEO

quote:
Originally posted by MT Predator:
quote:
Originally posted by Will Munny:
Anyone know who makes the AK-to-collapsible-AR stock adapter that Travis uses (not the OP's slightly different folding-and collapsing version)? Is it VLtor's model?

Thanks.

Will


Looks like a welded in back-plate and a pig-nose adapter for the AR receiver extension.


Actually, I think it is the exact same ACE mount that The Rat is using.

The reciever block:

http://riflestocks.com/catalog...4_99&products_id=301

The reciever extension mount:

http://riflestocks.com/catalog...h=69&products_id=184

                                                                                             ____________________________________________________________

                                   

                                                                                              "Hokey religions and ancient weapons are no match

                                                                                                 for a good blaster at your side."        -Cpt. Han Solo

                                                                                            ____________________________________________________________

 

Joined: 3/20/05 4:14 PM        Location:  North Carolina

Nicely done AK. I've been toying around with moernizing one of my Chicom 56's like this for use in our local 3-gun matches. I think you have now tipped me over the edge.

My targeted mods are to replace the red bakelite furniture with black AK-100 series stuff, add an Ultimak gas tube, Aimpoint Micro, Vltor offset light mount and sturdy light, AR-style birdcage flash hider and a railed lower handguard with stubby vertical grip.

I'm going to try my hand at making my own Swift Lever, since you can't buy the damned things anymore. It looks fairly simple if I can find the right grade of sheet metal to make the extended lever tab from. I will definitely be using a spare safety lever, though; none of my mods will permanently alter my preban.

It's good to see the renewed interest in the AK as a modern shooting platform; it's one of my favorite rifles for reasons I simply cannot explain. It has a certain cachet all its own, and in the niche for which it was designed, it holds its own quite well.
I like the vltor adapter also, however I'd recommend lock tighting the screws on the vltor, I noticed before doing this my screws would back out after firing

"Pacifism is a shifty doctrine under which a man accepts the benefits of the social group without being willing to pay; and claims a halo for his dishonesty."

-Robert A. Heinlein

AKA Groz

For those of you who have mounted an Aimpoint on your AKs, how did you like them? How much did they affect the balance (it is a generally forward heavy gun anyway) and do you feel that the rather small aperture (at least compared to something like an M68) is any sort of hindrance?
I have an Aimpoint Micro on my AR15 as well, so the small aperture doesn't bother me. I actually prefer it to the full-size Aimpoints. (Mainly because all the adjustment knob caps, etc on the full-size models make it harder to 'ghost out' the sight body while looking at the red dot than the Micro.)

As for balance, I didn't notice a balance change at all until I mounted the Ultimak lower rail handguard. When I had it with the stock lower handguard and everything just mounted off of the gas tube, it felt more or less like a standard AK.
i actually think your paint job looks pretty awesome. got anything to say about how you went about applying it and getting that nice blotchy effect?

---------------------------------- "Looking back on it, I might have given Al Capone a few hints. The best he could do was to operate his racket in three districts. I operated mine on three continents."- some Marine Oh, I'm sorry. Did I break your concentration? I didn't mean to do that. Please, continue. You were sayin' something about "best intentions"

Nothing really fancy. Hung it from a tree by the muzzle brake, applied tan base coat. Then while leaving it hanging, I used this 'stencil' to apply the blotches:


Due to everything sticking out (charging handle, VFG, light, etc), the 'stencil' usually was sitting an inch or two from the main body of the weapon, hence the blotchiness and diffused edges.

Like my dust cover fix, it was admittedly a hamfisted paint job, but at least it came out looking somewhat decent.
i just yer post of that over on theakforums. nice!

---------------------------------- "Looking back on it, I might have given Al Capone a few hints. The best he could do was to operate his racket in three districts. I operated mine on three continents."- some Marine Oh, I'm sorry. Did I break your concentration? I didn't mean to do that. Please, continue. You were sayin' something about "best intentions"

quote:
Originally posted by 4track:
quote:
Originally posted by MT Predator:
quote:
Originally posted by Will Munny:
Anyone know who makes the AK-to-collapsible-AR stock adapter that Travis uses (not the OP's slightly different folding-and collapsing version)? Is it VLtor's model?

Thanks.

Will


Looks like a welded in back-plate and a pig-nose adapter for the AR receiver extension.


Actually, I think it is the exact same ACE mount that The Rat is using.

The reciever block:

http://riflestocks.com/catalog...4_99&products_id=301

The reciever extension mount:

http://riflestocks.com/catalog...h=69&products_id=184


Nope, it's from here:
http://www.gogun.us/index.php?...irtuemart&Itemid=109

These are the guys who built Travis' AK.
Glad to see an AK thread here. I shot this in a LAV class a few weeks back. Being an M4 centric grumpy old guy, I was pleasently surprised at the AK's utility and ability to keep pace with other shooters armed with AR's.

I've since added a ADM mount for the H1.

quote:
Originally posted by Randerson:
Glad to see an AK thread here. I shot this in a LAV class a few weeks back. Being an M4 centric grumpy old guy, I was pleasently surprised at the AK's utility and ability to keep pace with other shooters armed with AR's.

I've since added a ADM mount for the H1.



Sharp looking AK, Randerson. Is that the Midwest Industries new railed forend? How is it serving you? Being universal, did it fit your AK well?

Thanks for contributing to this thread.

On another note, you may want to head here http://lightfighter.net/eve/fo...1/m/2031049741/p/166 and post an intro. It is step 1 towards success and good health here. There were instructions in the email you received if aren't sure what to include.

Stay safe.

----------------------------- "Its not a tourist attraction; its blood bought ground." - Duke, speaking of Ground Zero

quote:
Originally posted by Romullus:


Sharp looking AK, Randerson. Is that the Midwest Industries new railed forend? How is it serving you? Being universal, did it fit your AK well?

Thanks for contributing to this thread.

On another note, you may want to head here http://lightfighter.net/eve/fo...1/m/2031049741/p/166 and post an intro. It is step 1 towards success and good health here. There were instructions in the email you received if aren't sure what to include.

Stay safe.


Romullus,

Thanks. The intro was in the works, and completed.

The MI forend dropped straight in, and on this rifle has had close to 1600 rounds through it without an issue. I have also mounted it [previous to this set-up] on a Lancaster built Polish U/F. Slipped right in there as well.

I think if you're looking for the least obtrusive rail option, the MI solution is tops.

RA
how do you like the tango down ak mag? how many rounds do you have though that mag so far?

---------------------------------- "Looking back on it, I might have given Al Capone a few hints. The best he could do was to operate his racket in three districts. I operated mine on three continents."- some Marine Oh, I'm sorry. Did I break your concentration? I didn't mean to do that. Please, continue. You were sayin' something about "best intentions"

quote:
Originally posted by smellofvictory:
how do you like the tango down ak mag? how many rounds do you have though that mag so far?


In the interest of full disclosure, I run [Director of] US PALM, which JV'd with TangoDown to bring this mag to market.

We have one AK30 magazine with over 5000 [5300 +/- if I recall] rounds through it with no issues. We have 100 that have been used as T&E samples with various people, in numerous rifles, and non have has any issues beyond the normal anomaly of a specific rifle with a poor build quality here and there.

All in all, we are very excited to have this 12 month project wrapping up and getting into the market place.

It's my pleasure to answer any questions you folks may have.

Happy Holidays,

RA
Randerson how does this mags pouch fitment differ from standard ak mags?

"Pacifism is a shifty doctrine under which a man accepts the benefits of the social group without being willing to pay; and claims a halo for his dishonesty."

-Robert A. Heinlein

AKA Groz

quote:
Originally posted by Joe Chen:
Nice pistol grip. Can't wait! Smile


Thanks! We'll be showing mock-ups at SHOT, final product will have enhanced grip surfaces and other features that we can't reproduce in these SLS prototypes [as shown here]. Should be on dealers’ shelves by early April.

quote:
Originally posted by vinchenzo:
Randerson how does this mags pouch fitment differ from standard ak mags?


Great question. We clipped the nose of the magazine at the request of a secret squirrel type you had the need to run a VFG on an AK. His complaint was that unless he ran it all the way to the muzzle end of the rail, he couldn't do mag changes without a lot of kitty juggling. So, we clipped the nose, sourced custom springs, and it works great. As seen mounted in the photo above, you can actually index the reload by hitting the clipped nose to the bottom of the VFG and the leading edge of the magazine to the front of the mag well, then it's in perfect position to simply rock back and lock in. That's WAY too wordy for a very simple operation.



As such, and most astute on your end, is that if you run the pocket with bungee cord style of magazine pouches, you'll have to move your tie in point. If you run flap over, no worries, and same with a Kydex rig, obviously no worries.



We have several soft good related accessories coming out built by one of our new business partners, Doc at CSM, who is a super-mad genius in stitching cool gear.
I think that M4-style buttstocks on AKs are GAY!!! Commie-length fixed or Bulgarian triangle folders seem to be much better/stronger options!

I dig the evil AKs!!! My Arsenal SAM7 SFC should be finished next week when my H-1 and light mount get here. My SA93 will stay low-speed !

Please keep 'em comming!
quote:
Originally posted by Barker45:
I think that M4-style buttstocks on AKs are GAY!!! Commie-length fixed or Bulgarian triangle folders seem to be much better/stronger options!

I dig the evil AKs!!! My Arsenal SAM7 SFC should be finished next week when my H-1 and light mount get here. My SA93 will stay low-speed !

Please keep 'em comming!


I think that people who use exclamation marks to punctuate EVERY sentence they type are GAY.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Civilized men are more discourteous than savages because they know they can be impolite without having their skulls split, as a general thing. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- [url=http://lightfighter.net/eve/logout]Click HERE for the LightFighter Emotional Counseling Department[/url]
quote:
Originally posted by Randerson:
It's my pleasure to answer any questions you folks may have.


I am very much interested in these mags as well, and I have a few questions.

Just to confirm, you eventually plan to offer both the grips and the mags in the standard color options, right?

Also, any plans/considerations to make 20 round "tanker" size mags, too?

Thanks, and I hope you have a good showing at SHOT.

                                                                                             ____________________________________________________________

                                   

                                                                                              "Hokey religions and ancient weapons are no match

                                                                                                 for a good blaster at your side."        -Cpt. Han Solo

                                                                                            ____________________________________________________________

 

Joined: 3/20/05 4:14 PM        Location:  North Carolina

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