After seeing this thread by basicload, I decided I must have one of those grips. Where to buy one? Nowhere, it's gotta be made. So, I set out on my search for the perfect 30mm ring (the starting point and most crucial piece of the unit). I found this 30mm mount by Aimpoint. I bought one, and started planning.

I would be using a regular old Surefire 6P, so I needed a spacer for inside the ring to take up the extra space. (I though about using a set screw, but decided the spacer would be more secure, and allow me to tap it as well, for extra strength for mounting the grip. I picked up a spacer from a local shop, and headed to my local Ace for the appropriate hardware and tools. For the screw, I decided upon a 1/4-20, similar to the standard M16/M4 grip mounting screw but slightly shorter. I used a standard lock washer from a M4 grip mounting screw.

I put the ring in a vise, along with the spacer and a piece of 1" metal tubing to hold everything secure. I then drilled a hole at the 12 o'clock position with a #7 drill bit, making sure to keep it all straight. After that, I tapped it with the 1/4-20 tap I bought at Ace for about 4 bucks. I used a t-handle and did this by hand. I cleaned up the holes a bit with some fine sandpaper and a jewelers file. This part was done.

Next, for the grip. I acquired an M4 grip, and cut it so the flat portion inside would mount flush with my ring. This also puts the grip at a near 90 degree angle, which seems more ergonomic to me. I left a small lip and went at the inside with a dremel to create a small inward curve to grip the ring and prevent it from spinning in my hand when mounted. This required the most time and patience.

I loosened the hex screws on the ring, mounted my light, and started the screw. I left the hex screws loose during this to ensure the mounting screw, washer, grip, ring, and spacer would all line up. I placed a drop of Cyanoacrylite (sp?) glue (aka super glue) on the exposed threads, and tightned them by hand to the equivalent of 40 inch pounds. Nice and tight. I would use Loctite, but CA is stronger, but can still be loosened with a heat gun if needed.

After that, I tightened the hex screws and mounted it to the forwrd most position on the lower rail of my Knight's RAS. It is still solid as a rock 1,000 rounds later.

Here are some pics:
Left Side (the ziptie is to hold the lens cover on. It gets hot, and expands just enough to fall off.)


Right Side


Rear, showing spacer


Left front, note rounding of grip where it interfaces with the ring. This keeps the grip from rotating.


Inside of grip, showing screw and lock washer. Just like on any other AR variant.


Overall, I am very pleased! It took a bit of work, some time, and more money that I expected but the end result is more than worth it. It's very solid, and gives me the best of both worlds - grip out front, and light on the bottom.

edit: sorry about the small pics, I had to use a relatives PB account.
Last edited {1}
Original Post
quote:
Originally posted by GY:
Looks good, nice work. Now I know why you traded me those KAC grips. Did the mags work out okay?

Gary


I will never use another type of grip. Unless, of course, someone produces these commercially. Big Grin

The mags? They all worked great! I have a write-up of there performance thusfar located here.
quote:
Originally posted by GY:
quote:
Unless, of course, someone produces these commercially.



Sounds like you have a new business idea there.


Not really, but I wouldn't mind throwing one together for anyone who supplies me with the materials, return shipping cost, and a few bucks for labor.

As far as I'm concerned, it's a helluva design. basicload hit the nail on the head when he made this beast, and I haven't seen them ANYWHERE for sale. This kind of thing NEEDS to be available, and it isn't so I said "fuck it!" and made my own.
quote:
screw, but decided the spacer would be more secure, and allow me to tap it as well, for extra strength for mounting the grip. I picked up a spacer from a local shop, and headed to my local Ace for the appropriate hardware and tools. For the screw, I decided upon a 1/4-20, similar to the standard M16/M4 grip mounting screw but slightly shorter. I used a standard lock washer from a M4 grip mounting screw.

Ahh You bastard you stole my idea!!! I had played with the idea of using the aimpoint mounts but decided not too because I didn't think the aluminum was going to hold up. Let us know if this setup takes the abuse. Nice work by the way.
quote:
I picked up a spacer from a local shop


Cyclic,

So - it's a spacer from another set of 30mm scope rings?? What brand/ model, etc??????

And a recommendation - rotate the cover for the sure fire 180 degrees - when it flips open the cover will be closer to the barrel, etc and leaves less sticking out to snag unexpectedly.

HD
quote:
Originally posted by HD_Cruisin:
quote:
I picked up a spacer from a local shop


Cyclic,

So - it's a spacer from another set of 30mm scope rings?? What brand/ model, etc??????

And a recommendation - rotate the cover for the sure fire 180 degrees - when it flips open the cover will be closer to the barrel, etc and leaves less sticking out to snag unexpectedly.

HD


Not sure about the brand of the other 30mm ring. It came in a small bag with a hand-written pricetag. I probably got ripped-off, but I didn't really give a shit at the time. Wink
Any 30mm-to-1 inch spacer will work.

I like the idea of having the spacer threaded as well, but you could probably pull this off with just tapping the aimpoint ring.

As for the flip-open cover, I have it this way because it gets bent when it presses on my kit when slung (if I'm wearing any gear) when to the left, snags on shit to the right, and melts when it's up touching the hot barrel. The 6 o'clock position is fine, and hasn't given me any trouble yet. I figure if it's snagging there, I've already caught my barrel on something and have more to worry about that a light cover.
Good job on the light.

I don't know who designed this yet or if there are any patents or obstacles to getting them produced.

If and when I find out these will be getting made by someone who will recieve a prototype in an unmarked brown paper bag dropped off on the corner of...
That would definitely work, but you're talking about $150 in parts, not including a light.

If you don't feel like messing with drilling, tapping, and all that other shit, go for it!

I thought about doing that, but with the A.R.M.S. grip, but decided to try and make this grip instead. It ended working out for me, but it it's definitely a personal preference.
quote:
That would definitely work, but you're talking about $150 in parts, not including a light



Not if you already have 90% of it on hand ( light and grip just need the ring)
quote:
Originally posted by PYRO:
quote:
That would definitely work, but you're talking about $150 in parts, not including a light



Not if you already have 90% of it on hand ( light and grip just need the ring)


True.

Another issue I had with doing that was the fact you're dealing with 2 rail interfaces. That's twice the chance for the thing to come loose. Most likely NOT going to happen, but I thought about it.

I have one rail interface only with this grip. I hit 4,000 rounds fired last night, another 1,000 since the write-up (2,000 fired since installation), and it's still tight. I think I'm onto a winner here.

tangoromeo, thanks bro! Big Grin
quote:
Originally posted by basicload:
quote:
Originally posted by geronimo:
Good job on the light.

I don't know who designed this yet or if there are any patents or obstacles to getting them produced.

If and when I find out these will be getting made by someone who will recieve a prototype in an unmarked brown paper bag dropped off on the corner of...


I'm about tired of this bullshit too brother....
I think I'm going to ask LaRue to start making them.

Let me know if you need an adress to drop off a brown paper bag.


basicload and geronimo:

The first light/grip combo's like this I ever saw were made by Knight's Armament - that was about four years ago now. As far as I know a patent was never sought after.

If you need more info or someone to draw up the design for you let me know... I have some experience with that sort of thing.

Take care,
Clint
quote:
Originally posted by clynch:
quote:
Originally posted by basicload:
quote:
Originally posted by geronimo:
Good job on the light.

I don't know who designed this yet or if there are any patents or obstacles to getting them produced.

If and when I find out these will be getting made by someone who will recieve a prototype in an unmarked brown paper bag dropped off on the corner of...


I'm about tired of this bullshit too brother....
I think I'm going to ask LaRue to start making them.

Let me know if you need an adress to drop off a brown paper bag.


basicload and geronimo:

The first light/grip combo's like this I ever saw were made by Knight's Armament - that was about four years ago now. As far as I know a patent was never sought after.

If you need more info or someone to draw up the design for you let me know... I have some experience with that sort of thing.

Take care,
Clint


I've had mine for much longer than 4 years as has BL I'm sure...

I should be able to snag another couple of them next week and get the full story from the originators.

Basic,
I'll shoot you a PM if I need a drop off made.
Okay I've been friggin with a similar idea since BL posted his.

It is still in work in progress status - but it cost me $5 Wink - I am tryign to move the grip a bit more rearward.

We have a lot of C9/M249 Rear Grips that where pulled off the guns a few years ago - they sit NIB in Stores. I figured that due to their design (same thread pitch as a KAC/camera adaptor thread) it might make a good platform

So off the Home Depot I got two pipe clamps (heck if you can is them to clamp a Light and Vert grip to a SD - why not use it)



The mount bracket is a two piece and has a nice profile that fits a cut M16 pistol grip if dremeled properly (still working on that side of the house) I think I got it - but we shot today with it using the issue C9 stick (I cut down) (over 300rds and multiple transitions with two of us using it) and it seems to be sturdy enough




I replaced the C tailcap with a XM as well and it made reach better (today after photo's)

Any luck tomorrow and I will get the pistol grip finished and take a pic.

Oh and the 10 ran and no gaggin (see Yeager it just did not like you Wink )
CyclicD - well you made my desire to get it done a bit stronger -- I coudl not bring myself to chop a set of KAC rings for this (better leave them in my parts draw Roll Eyes - but hey)

Anyway I tried the pistol grip today but I think I like this set up better - not 100% ideal - but like I said it is work in progress.

Anyway you have the Gangster Grip - I have the Ghetto grip
Here's an incredibly shitty pic of my latest.

Tango Down Gangster Grip


Made it for another LF member. Turned out great, but was a little more difficult to make. The screw hole is at the end of one of the battery compartments, where it gets narrower towards the top. I had to go buy a 9" T-Handle 3/16 hex driver because my usual 3/8 drive hex driver would not fit that far into the compartment. Other than that, it went together just like the other few I've made.

There is no lens cover, because the shooter did not desire one. Works great, and I really like the fact that, with this installed, you have yet another place to store some extra cells.

I applied 3M griptape to the front because the TG grips are smooth there unlike the A2 grips I've been using. For an AR grip that's fine, and the texture is in the right spot when used as it's meant to be, but for up-front as a VFG, it needed some extra tread on the front edge. On my Knight's RIS-equipped M4, it feels great, with just the right texture and grab.
quote:
Originally posted by ROK:
Now that is sexy!

ATW- LT D in the ROK


I think it looks like a Black and Tan turd.

IMO, the beauty is in it's functionality and ergonomics.
quote:
Originally posted by caveatemptour:
http://www.fulton-armory.com/RailForBayonetLug-149H_50.jpg
Anyone ever used one of these to attach your light? Gets it under the barrell and does not interfere with use of a bayonet (so long as you remove the light first) For those of us who don't have a rail, it seems like an inexpensive and logical alternative.


Not bad.

One thing I don't care for is that it would require the shooter to actuate the tailcap with your knuckle, which sacrifices your grip on the Vert grip.

It's also not an option for those of us who aren't allowed to modify our weapons with unauthorized parts.

VFGs are considered "accessories," and are allowed most of the time as long as it doesn't look TOO MUCH different than the issue Knights grip.

The "Gangster Grip" isn't an end-all solution to everyone's needs. It's an option (and the only thing like it for now!) for those of us who like our grip out front and our light at 6 o'clock.

I'm not saying it's the best grip/light combo, but it's the best for how I shoot.
OK -
I have all the parts to do this except the freaking 30mm to 1 inch HALF MOON spacer.

I have gone blind trying to find 30mm to 1 in scope spacers - all I find is the complete circle spacers not any HALF MOON spacers..

Anyone have links to where I can find one?
Cyclic, I'm loving that tango down gangster grip. Any thoughts on the production cost? I don't have a rail system on my carbine, yet, but I could very easily see that badboy getting mounted when it all comes together.

Any chance of a pic with the grip mounted on the rifle? Please?
Gary, drop me a PM when you're ready bro.

HD, I use the ARMS spacers (#37 IIRC). They are a complete circle. So far, I have not experienced any problems, nor have I recieved any negative feedback about them failing after repeated hard runnings. They retail for around 30 bux a pair. Split a set with someone else who wants to make one.

VaughnT, I charge a small fee for labor. I can acquire the parts, or you can. Send me the money, or any combination of money or parts and I'll hook you up. Labor is a flat fee. Drop me a PM if you're interested.

I'll get better pics ASAP.

Keep in mind, each unit is a one-off production, so I can make small changes to suit your needs. Different grips, different lights, different angles, etc.

My goal is not to make money, but to get these grips out there so guys can use them until the big boys start churning them out of the factories.

The next one I make for myself will probably use a Magpul MIAD grip.
CyclicD
OK Call me confused - the pics you posted of the first build looked like a 1/2 moon spacer, not a 1/2 of the complete circle spacer.

Do you use just the half or the complete circle?

HD
quote:
Originally posted by HD_Cruisin:
CyclicD
OK Call me confused - the pics you posted of the first build looked like a 1/2 moon spacer, not a 1/2 of the complete circle spacer.

Do you use just the half or the complete circle?

HD


I used the "1/2 Moon" spacer for the first grip I made.

I've since switched to using ARMS rings.

AKFirecop is currently using the original gangster (OG ha!) grip I made. Last I heard it's still kickin.

I have made a few grips with the ARMS rings, and every one I've used on my gat has held up just as well as the 1/2 moon, which cost twice as much.

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