German cops getting new Glock pistol - the G46

Looks like cops in Sachsen-Anhalt are going to be giving up their Sigs for the new Glock 46.

Link is in German.  https://www.mz-web.de/sachsen-...dienstwaffe-31917990

The gist is that they are getting a more modern pistol that’s more reliable with a higher mag capacity. Says how many and a timeline, and how much it costs (more than I have in the bank).

The article doesn’t go into the design, but the G46 is supposed to have a rotating barrel and is G19 sized. Also a fixed beaver-tail and general Gen 5 features. 

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It's easy to make assumptions about puppies strapped to missiles, but good science requires research.

 

Joined: 12-2005          Location: Central OK

Original Post

For those of you that don’t speak German.

https://www.thefirearmblog(dot)com/blog/2019/02/01/saxon-police-adopt-glock-46/

German State Police Adopt NEW Glock 46

 
Glock 46

The Glock 46 (Ministry of the Interior Saxony-Anhalt)

The German state of Saxony-Anhalt have announced the adoption of the Glock 46 as their next police sidearm. The new Glocks will replace Saxony-Anhalt police’s current SIG Sauer P6s. The SIG’ have been in service for nearly 30 years and nearly 6,500 new pistols will be needed to replace them. The contract represents the first time a Glock has been adopted as a standard issue side arm by a German police force.

First adopted by in the late 1970s when various German state police forces adopted pistols including  Walther’s P5, SIG-Sauer entered the P225 (which became the P6 when in service) and Heckler & Koch submitted their PSP or P7. After the reunification of Germany in 1990, Saxony-Anhalt state police adopted the P6, replacing their Soviet Makarov PMs.

 

Saxony-Anhalt state police has around 6,400 officers who are armed so the contract is a significant one. The choice of the Austrian Glock over the German HK, popular with many other German police forces, comes as little surprise as the when the Glock 46 first appeared back in 2017, it was described as being specially developed for German police trials.

Glock 46 2017

An earlier photo of the Glock 46 disassembled which first surfaced back in 2017. It shows the new barrel and striker assembly. Some additional changes have been made since.

The Glock 46 was developed to meet a set of very specific German state/federal requirements, known as TR 2008 (Technische Richtlinie für Pistolen im Kaliber 9x19mm der Polizeien der Länder und des Bundes). Which required a trigger pull of more than 30N and and a trigger with between 10 and 15mm of travel. The new Glock 46 has a 35N or 7.9 lbf trigger pull and 11mm of travel.

Externally, it look like Glock’s other Gen 5 pistols but the most interesting feature of the Glock 46 is that, unlike other Glocks, it uses a rotating barrel locking method rather than the standard Browning-style tilting barrel system. The German media stress this is rotating barrel offers better accuracy. It can also be disassembled without pulling the trigger, which was a police requirement, and has a more prominent beavertail frame. The Glock 46 is chambered in 9x19mm and has a 15 round magazine, front slide serrations and a new feature not seen on earlier photos, what appears to be a frame mounted decocker/safety.

The new pistol was successfully tested at the German proof institute in Ulm and was certified in December 2018. Head of the Federal German Criminal Investigation Bureau (BDK), Peter Meißner, said: “We consider it a correct decision in terms of content, that the country has opted for the Glock.” While Wolfgang Ladebeck, of the German police union said: “That’s absolutely a sure-footed weapon, which we hope to never use.”

The contract is reported to be worth 8.6 million Euros or $9.8 million, with the first 2,500 pistols to be delivered during 2019 with fully delivery of over 8,500 pistols expected to be completed by 2021. Trainee police officers at Saxony-Anhalt’s police college. The Glock 46 is not currently commercially available in Europe and there are no plans for the Glock 46 to be released in the US at this time.

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It's easy to make assumptions about puppies strapped to missiles, but good science requires research.

 

Joined: 12-2005          Location: Central OK

Is the 'rotary' locking barrel due to the round they are using 9x19 90g @1377 fps? Seems like the 'old' BaT (Blitz Action Trauma) rounds from the 1990s ...ya, I read 'Pistolero' and have a few boxes of those  

Spec sheet attached

 

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Having zero experience with the Glock 46, all I can say is watch the surplus market, i.e. Classic Arms, J&G Sales, AIM Surplus, etc. for those P6's.  There were a bunch that came in a few years ago and they were quickly snapped up.  I wouldn't consider them state of the art any longer considering size and weight v. magazine capacity, but they might still be desirable from a collector standpoint.

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Mark

Swear allegiance to the flag Whatever flag they offer

Never hint at what you really feel

Teach the children quietly For some day sons and daughters

Will rise up and fight while we stood still

 

Joined:  2/24/2003                          Location:  Nevada, USA

The new pistol was successfully tested at the German proof institute in Ulm and was certified in December 2018. Head of the Federal German Criminal Investigation Bureau (BDK), Peter Meißner, said: “We consider it a correct decision in terms of content, that the country has opted for the Glock.” While Wolfgang Ladebeck, of the German police union said: “That’s absolutely a sure-footed weapon, which we hope to never use.”

That's the spirit!

Hmmm....rotary barrel and a thumb safety.  Almost makes me want one.  Almost.

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IT'S A COLT.  THEY'RE LIKE THE HK OF GUNS.

HRH (Ret.) The Most Reverend Consig

All Hail King Smoothie!

 

 

 

 

 Joined: 28 Nov 2004: 0037hrs        Location: The worst run state in the U.S

I’d buy one just because it’s such a unicorn in the Glock world. Too bad about the 8lb trigger, though. 

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It's easy to make assumptions about puppies strapped to missiles, but good science requires research.

 

Joined: 12-2005          Location: Central OK

SPDSNYPR posted:

I’d buy one just because it’s such a unicorn in the Glock world. 

Other than its unicorn status there is nothing that makes me go, "WOW."

Rotary barrel more accurate?  The German's must be phenomenal shots if  they are concentrating on trying to reduce the group size numbers on the right side of the decimal point.  

I'd go more for the proven reliable and durable tilt barrel lockup until proven otherwise.

Manual thumb safety? No safety is a stupid proof safety.

The photos don't show a separate disassembly lever forward of the trigger like there is on all other Glock models, so what appears to be a thumb safety could just be a "decocker", disassembly lever.  While I don't know the changes they made to the striker system, striker guns typically have a projection on the striker that catches on the sear.  To disassemble the gun, you need to press the trigger to get the sear out of the way, or like S&W, have a separate lever that depresses the sear.  Understanding the way they design guns, my best guess is that you lock the slide back with the slide stop, and check the chamber, making sure the chamber is empty.  Depress the lever/thumb thingy to depress the sear, and allow the slide to go forward, and everything slide off the rails.  That's my guess anyway.

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Mark

Swear allegiance to the flag Whatever flag they offer

Never hint at what you really feel

Teach the children quietly For some day sons and daughters

Will rise up and fight while we stood still

 

Joined:  2/24/2003                          Location:  Nevada, USA

We ha a thread about this 1 1/2 year ago...

https://www.lightfighter.net/t...39#47333394095551939

there I wrote

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 A clear statement by Glock CEO Dr. Stephan Dörler: "With our new G 46 with 9 mm × 19 revolving barrel locked, we do not carry out a paradigm shift and introduce the replacement of our previous models. The new G 46 is intended for authorities and supplements the consistently continued line of our basic pistols like Glock 17. "

 Glock has designed the G 46 to be able to participate in calls for tenders by the German police forces. For this, the first hurdle, the TR, the technical guideline for pistols in the caliber of 9 mm × 19 must be overcome. The second hurdle is the rules: ER, testing guidelines for the technical guideline. The author of both works is the Polizeitechnische Institut (PTI) of the German College of Police (DHPol) in Münster. The TR-ER test procedure is then carried out at the  Beschussamt Ulm.

 How the sparkling new Glock pistol, designed by Generalmajor a.D., Dipl.-Ing. Friedrich Dechant, a Koryphae of gun building, is built, locked and works, read in detail in DWJ 10/2017. The issue will be published on 20 September.

 +++++++++++++

Dipl.-Ing. Friedrich Dechant  by the way played a leading role "war die treibende Kraft... (was the driving force...)" in adopting the Glock pistol in 1982 in the Austrian army as standard pistol. He retired off the Army as a General Major  and was at the end of his career head of the "Amt für Wehrtechnik" (testing and procurement authority). 

In Germany for the police only the GSG9 uses Glock pistols, because they are "special enough" to give a fuck about the mentioned TR (Technische Richtlinie)

In TR-Rand-Nummer 2.2 it is said, that a de-cocking for manipulating the pistol (and that includes to disassemble the pistol!) has to be done without pulling the trigger, for reasons of safety.  And we all know to disassemble a Glock, do we?

So...  no Glocks for German Cops - till now.

There are calls for tenders for new pistols by the Police of Berlin and Bavaria, other federal states in Germany are to follow (most Hamburg police officers are still issued SIG Sauer 220  pistol in 9x19 with single stack 9 shot magazines and carry only 1 or maximal 2 spare magazines on patrol)

 

 

On the takedown pic above of a 2017 model, look at the striker.  IIRC, parts 2 & 3 are separate on tilt barrels (people place custom shit on the back of them.)  On these guns they are one piece.  The old pic doesn't even have the decocker/safety which is on the final model.

Since Erick mentioned it and my Glock armorer here was curious, which tilt barrel Glock had a frame mounted safety?

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IT'S A COLT.  THEY'RE LIKE THE HK OF GUNS.

HRH (Ret.) The Most Reverend Consig

All Hail King Smoothie!

 

 

 

 

 Joined: 28 Nov 2004: 0037hrs        Location: The worst run state in the U.S

I have read elsewhere on LF that the testing of pistols for the German Police at the German proof institute in Ulm is extremely rigorous.

Does anyone have a list of the tests and/or requirements involved?

I would be interested to see how they differ from American testing standards.

Thanks,

Tony

Consigliere posted:

On the takedown pic above of a 2017 model, look at the striker.  IIRC, parts 2 & 3 are separate on tilt barrels (people place custom shit on the back of them.)  On these guns they are one piece.  The old pic doesn't even have the decocker/safety which is on the final model.

Since Erick mentioned it and my Glock armorer here was curious, which tilt barrel Glock had a frame mounted safety?

The FDE version they submitted for the handgun trials had a frame mounted thumb safety.  The 19x was released to the civilian market without the military safety.  Cominolli designed a thumb safety conversion for the Glock, but it was never a factory option.  So the only factory thumb safety was the military proposal from last year (the 19x's daddy).

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Mark

Swear allegiance to the flag Whatever flag they offer

Never hint at what you really feel

Teach the children quietly For some day sons and daughters

Will rise up and fight while we stood still

 

Joined:  2/24/2003                          Location:  Nevada, USA

A rotating barrel.  The solution to a non-existent problem.

This is a real surprise that the German's would needlessly over-engineer something.

Wait until the FBI gets a load of this....

 

____________________

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Embracing the Pink Bunny

Antonius posted:

I have read elsewhere on LF that the testing of pistols for the German Police at the German proof institute in Ulm is extremely rigorous.

Does anyone have a list of the tests and/or requirements involved?

I would be interested to see how they differ from American testing standards.

Thanks,

Tony

htt  ps://www.gunsweek.com/sites/default/files/archive/contents/pistols/news/glock-46-rotating-barrel-pistol/TR-Pistole_31-01-08.pdf

 

I've seen pics of an Austrian Army trials Glock from the early to mid 80s with a thumb safety.  I also seem to recall one being made for some other EU trials in the late 90s that had a thumb safety on a G17.  Don't know that it ever was a production piece or what.

Blessed be the Lord, my rock

who trains my arms for battle,

who prepares my hands for war.

 

Psalm 144.1

Also, Gen 1 G17 for the Tasmanian police:

 

Supposedly the same was sent to the UK Army trials not long after. This is from the Royal Armories, listed as being in their possession as it's from the Army trials but it looks rather different. Better lever certainly. 

This is ALSO reported as being the UK trials gun:

Look close. Crossbolt above the mag release. That's on fire. 

 

While these all seem to have solid backing they are real factory guns, are not the aftermarket conversion, it's hard to tell what all of them were for. A few sources even say the Tasmanian police thing wasn't real? 

The things that will destroy America are prosperity at any price, peace at any price, safety first instead of duty first, the love of soft living and the get rich quick theory of life. – Theodore Roosevelt

 

Joined: 19NOV2004   Location: Mission, Kansas

That safety  looks....horrible.  Not ergonomic at all. 

____________________

 "The only legacy a cop can hope for is being mentioned by a couple of guys standing around a barbeque talking about their last caper...hopefully, you're included in their conversation." Dewey, Southland

 

Embracing the Pink Bunny

I've been impressed with the rotary-barrel pistols.  In .40, the Px4 had less muzzle rise than other pistols.  Now I only have a Px4 and Grand Power both in 9mm but like them.

With no up-and-down excitement inside the slide, it just seems like the up-and-down movement in my hand is less.  Naturally, there are other factors and I may have a truly weird firing grip etc, but I do like the concept.

shoobe01 posted:

 

Look close. Crossbolt above the mag release. That's on fire. 

 

While these all seem to have solid backing they are real factory guns, are not the aftermarket conversion, it's hard to tell what all of them were for. A few sources even say the Tasmanian police thing wasn't real? 

This design was offered to the DOD as part of a really large potential order.  The actual submission had an extended barrel notched for an included factory (polymer of course) suppressor.  The safety could be pushed either way, depending on the shooter's hand preference, and was easily set to fire when the trigger finger engaged.  No extra motion required.  Offered in  .45 ACP.  Unverified is that DOD canceled after another entrant used up their appeals and involved their congress critters when their offering could not meet the trigger cocking requirement.

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Kilroy... ...was here.

 

Telling ain't training........listening is not learning.

 

So many questions, but most of all: plastic suppressor??? 

The things that will destroy America are prosperity at any price, peace at any price, safety first instead of duty first, the love of soft living and the get rich quick theory of life. – Theodore Roosevelt

 

Joined: 19NOV2004   Location: Mission, Kansas

shoobe01 posted:

So many questions, but most of all: plastic suppressor??? 

Disposable.  I don't know if it is the same one, but there is a rectangular one that fits on a standard Glock without needing a threaded barrel.  Getting back to the plastic suppressor, why not?  They are made to last here because we have to do all that damn paperwork, a tax, and a long weight.  What if you could pick one up off the shelf for $20?  The idea being they are cheap, disposable and light.  For many/most military/LE uses, 2 magazines and throw it away makes sense. 

-------------------------

Mark

Swear allegiance to the flag Whatever flag they offer

Never hint at what you really feel

Teach the children quietly For some day sons and daughters

Will rise up and fight while we stood still

 

Joined:  2/24/2003                          Location:  Nevada, USA

Neat. Now I knew to google it, neat. 

The things that will destroy America are prosperity at any price, peace at any price, safety first instead of duty first, the love of soft living and the get rich quick theory of life. – Theodore Roosevelt

 

Joined: 19NOV2004   Location: Mission, Kansas

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shoobe01 posted:

So many questions, but most of all: plastic suppressor??? 

The Glock model worked quite well.  Stated service life was ~250 rounds.  I fired almost 500 rounds through the G21 configured for the solicitation and not sure if I noticed much degradation in sound level.  Wetting it down seemed to help.  Replacement cost was minimal.

________________________________________________________________

 

Kilroy... ...was here.

 

Telling ain't training........listening is not learning.

 

Dorsai posted:
shoobe01 posted:

So many questions, but most of all: plastic suppressor??? 

Disposable.  I don't know if it is the same one, but there is a rectangular one that fits on a standard Glock without needing a threaded barrel.  Getting back to the plastic suppressor, why not?  They are made to last here because we have to do all that damn paperwork, a tax, and a long weight.  What if you could pick one up off the shelf for $20?  The idea being they are cheap, disposable and light.  For many/most military/LE uses, 2 magazines and throw it away makes sense. 

Saw ones in France: synthetic .22 suppressors in bubble pack.

Idea was to shoot till 'louder' & then dispose: no cleaning.

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