Glock 'MOS' Models Announced

@TheTick  my problem with the DPP is that it's so Goddamn high. (I think you checked out my 34MOS at FOP?) I have a 6360RDS (and a 6384 RDS). Neither would fit in the holster with the cowitness height Dawson Sights for the DPP.

My 34MOS now has a RMR06 on it.  I wholeheartedly agree with what others said about the  Trijicon MOS mounting plate. That was a definite requirement when I switched to the RMR06.

Joined: 30 May 2003                  Location: SE PA

LastCrusader posted:

Does the Sig M17 have mounting issues as well? Or an RMR drops straight on? 

An RMR won't drop on the M17. It's basically direct milled for a DPP, you'd need an adapter plate of some sort for the M17. At least it's a better option than the Romeo1 specific cut on the rest of their guns.

Having spoken direct to some of the leading trainers on MRDS pistols (Cowan & Fisher) both have called the MOS system duty capable.  Also, the G19 MOS is apparently the issue pistol for the entire 75th Ranger Regiment so that would seem to be a strong endorsement for the system. 

My direct experience with the MOS system is satisfactory.  I have a G19Gen 4 with MOS slide and an RMR06 on it that has about 1000 rounds through it over the last 2 months being ironed out before qualifying with it next month.  No issues with loss of zero or loosening of the optic or plate.  All screws have witness marks and were installed with blue Loctite. 

Blessed be the Lord, my rock

who trains my arms for battle,

who prepares my hands for war.

 

Psalm 144.1

Not trying to resurrect the dead, but my agency is considering the MOS option after our last few shootings. I can tell you that third party slides or milling are a definite no-go. The only optics being considered are the RMR and the DPP; with the possibility of the ACRO at a later date. These would possibly (likely?) be issued items. Details are still being sorted out. I'm not even sure if this will get off the ground, once total cost is put together. With my admin, its not that they don't see the benefit or recognize the capability. I'm just not sure that the money isn't there.

Anyway, I'm looking for hard feedback on the MOS system. Specifically, the G19, G17. I'm sure the G45 will also be a contender, if an MOS configuration is ever offered.

Goon Squad posted:

Not trying to resurrect the dead, but my agency is considering the MOS option after our last few shootings. I can tell you that third party slides or milling are a definite no-go. The only optics being considered are the RMR and the DPP; with the possibility of the ACRO at a later date. These would possibly (likely?) be issued items. Details are still being sorted out. I'm not even sure if this will get off the ground, once total cost is put together. With my admin, its not that they don't see the benefit or recognize the capability. I'm just not sure that the money isn't there.

Anyway, I'm looking for hard feedback on the MOS system. Specifically, the G19, G17. I'm sure the G45 will also be a contender, if an MOS configuration is ever offered.

I greatly prefer the DPP to the RMR type 2. The type 2 programming is a no go for me as it forces itself into auto adjust after 16 hours. It then goes a step further and the lockout feature that could have been great to lock in your preferred setting instead locks it into auto.. If I purchase a manual adjust model I don't want the optic randomly going into auto adjust. 

Programming aside, the glass of the DPP is larger and clearer, I'm able to pick up and track the dot much easier. The DPP being about half the cost of an RMR also helps..

Not sure if you're stuck with glocks, but Sig X series can be easily adapted for use with the DPP, just need to remove 3mm from either the front of the optic or front of optic cut or a combo of both. 

In Valor There Is Hope

scsu74 posted:
Goon Squad posted:

I greatly prefer the DPP to the RMR type 2. The type 2 programming is a no go for me as it forces itself into auto adjust after 16 hours. It then goes a step further and the lockout feature that could have been great to lock in your preferred setting instead locks it into auto.. If I purchase a manual adjust model I don't want the optic randomly going into auto adjust. 

Programming aside, the glass of the DPP is larger and clearer, I'm able to pick up and track the dot much easier. The DPP being about half the cost of an RMR also helps..

Not sure if you're stuck with glocks, but Sig X series can be easily adapted for use with the DPP, just need to remove 3mm from either the front of the optic or front of optic cut or a combo of both. 

I appreciate the input on the DPP. It will be one of the two optics authorized (the other being the RMR II). The only pistol option being looked at right now is the Glock as this is the issued pistol, but Sigs are still "authorized" for personal purchase. Currently, guys can send their personal guns out to have the slide milled, but this wont ever be an agency endeavor. If we go down the "issued" route, factory production will be the only way forward. In that case, I'm sure production Sigs will be fine (assuming they are still authorized). We have a fairly progressive firearms program here, but I just don't see us doing anything but factory solutions if we start to issue this gear.

Goonsquad-

Earlier this year we made the transition to Gen 4 17/19 MOS across the board for everyone at the agency. We are just moving back from a not well thought out stint with the G22/23 series. While we did not have a huge number of issues with the .40's we wanted to get our guys in a weapon that could become a legacy platform for us, meaning we will just replace these guns on a schedule and until something revolutionary comes out we will stay with this platform (for a variety of reasons) for the foreseeable future.

The 17/19 MOS guns give us the ability for officers to update their weapons with either the DPP or the RMR, the only two optics currently approved right now-although we are testing others and may add in the future.  We do not issue the sights we simply allow the officers to purchase them and put them on the work gun if they so choose.

When we were looking at doing all of this I wanted to make sure that we moved forward in a platform / caliber / model that would sustain us for the future without us having to select new pistols every so many years as we have done in the past. In selecting a legacy platform, the Glock 17/19 9mm, we gain a lot of intangibles such as known budgeting cycle yearly for both ammo and pistols, a system which has proven itself time and again throughout .mil / . gov and other testing world wide as well as being one that our officers like and have confidence in. Additionally since we are only going to replace a certain percentage of pistols each year we never have to worry about the 'bad batch' syndrome effecting everyone's weapon at once.

If/when Glock comes out with the G45 MOS I would imagine that we would approve that as well as it is directly in line with our overall thinking.   Right now other than the 17/19 the only weapons approved for duty use are the G26 for some upper level Detective Supervisors and Admin (if they so choose and only a very small percentage do). The G43 is also in issue for those personnel in a UC status. 

So far our thought process has been extremely well received by the officers with roughly 25-30% purchasing the optic. I would imagine that number will climb substantially with the new year when they all get more uniform allotment money.  This is pretty much what we saw when we made lights optional. About 30% the first year with a sharp spike within the beginning of the next year. Now over 85% of our folks run a weapon light no matter what division they are in.

Scott,

This is pretty much identical to what we are looking at here. We are already buying and issuing the Gen 5 17, with the proposal being that we move to the MOS models now that we are looking at the RDS world as an agency. The "legacy" point was the overwhelming benefit. Interesting that you guys are getting the buy-in from officers. I kinda expect the same, even from "non-gun" officers. My question was about the feasibility/durability/serviceability of the MOS system. Sounds like these are a "Go" from what I can see.

Scott- what holsters did you issue?

We’re going to G17/19 MOS next year and I somehow actually got the loudest voice in the conversation.  I’m figuring Safariland 63xxRDS.

Thoughts?

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What is left when honor is lost?

As to holsters, Safariland is mandated across the board for all on-duty activities, optic or not. As much as I enjoy other holsters off-duty the Safariland has proven itself exceptional for duty functions over the years. I can tell you that more than one of our officers-including myself-has been saved or assisting in defeating a disarm due to the quality of the Safariland product. 

The only deviation allowed is Dets assigned to UC work and they are running Henry Holsters  (https://www.henryholstersDOTcom/).

Henry Holsters is local to us and is a great holster company. They make holsters for other manufacturers under contract so their products are well known under other names.

As to 'buy-in' from the officers...every agency has some that don't like whatever gear you give them, doesn't matter what it is or who made it.  For those that do buy in we try to give them as much personal latitude as possible when setting up their duty weapon. That does not mean it is a free-for-all and anything goes. Far from it. But we realize that an officers life depends upon the duty weapon and to make them all carry the exact same thing, in the exact same form factor, is not a wise way to go. As to durability, we have had zero problems. The SWAT pistols are the ones that in every agency get the most round count and most of those guys are running an optic. So far they are-I'll have to check on exacts- likely in the 3-5000 range each with zero issues. Even on our other specialty units with a somewhat lessor round count we have had no issues at all, as a result we very much see the pistols as go-to-go.

We, as an agency,  have a large number who see the wisdom of personalizing their gear when given the opportunity.  Take for instance patrol rifles. While we do not allow personal rifles they are allowed personal uppers off of a select list of manufacturers. As every  lower is an M16A1 or M4 registered lower a great many of our guys are running 10.5-11.5-14.5 inch uppers with their choice of lights and Departmentally provided Aimpoints.

Back to pistols again,...the vast majority of our guys buy their duty pistols back when we trade them in. For some it is because it is a ' good deal' for others it is sentimentality and yet others it is because the weapon has been set up, by them, how they want it.  I would expect that the MOS guns in one Gen or another are likely to roll on for my agency long after I retire and most likely-unless 40-watt plasma comes about- for the next 20 years plus.

 

Okay- follow up...

My Chief was told by Glock that they don’t have suppressor height Ameriglo sights (the orange dot post and blacked out rear) that come from the factory on the MOS that will co-witness with an RDS.

Anyone?  That doesn’t sound right to me. 

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What is left when honor is lost?

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