H&K VP9 (Striker Fired)

Yeah, while they are shockingly similar they do not share anything (short of the occasional holster).  A lot of folks, myself included, picked up a PPQ (I have a first edition paddle gun) because of the lack of a P30 with a striker.  The controls are very similar - though I operate the Walther mag release differently then my old P2000.

 

If you look at the slide and features the PPQ is just the evolution of the P99 line of handguns.  So while very similar, that's about it.  My special edition PPQ was $692 shipped when I picked it up, while standard PPQ's were around $492 (had one of those too).  So even the price will be close.  Not sure what the Gen 2's go for.

 

The PPQ is very tough, nigh impossible to mount an RDS on without a lot of work/money, etc.  If the P30 is capable of taking one (I doubt it), then I'll make an effort to switch over.

I may be talking to the wrong crowd but the new 9mm M&P's work like they should, mags and parts are available along with holsters.

You buy into a system, .22 lr., .380, 9mm. M&P and Shield, 40 S&W and .45 acp.

I have a long slide, high sight version (CORE?) works well for me (old eyes work better with bigger high sights).

I guess there are folks who just have to have a "German Gun", remember all the guys who thought the Luger was so great before the 1911 became the rage, then the Glock and now G-d knows what else.

If it is foreign, it must be better...hell people are even using 1911's made over seas that they claim are better than one made in the US (this may have been true fifteen years ago but not now).

Not to break anyone's rice bowel but many of these "German Guns" are made here in the good old USA by the same folks who may have worked for Beemer or Mercedes.

I am not saying the M&P is superior to the "German Super Guns" but it is an alternative.

Rant off.

Art

 

So other then the hyperbole and strangeness, what's your point? 

You have countered no arguments made here, and I frankly don't know what you're getting at. 

However, to address one of your points: no, I don't remember when all of the guys thought the Luger was better then the 1911.

Jules

Many in the 1920's and 1930's thought the Luger superior, then later we had the Hi Power thing, Lightweight Commander (still have two), Combat Commander, Star LW, full size 1911, Smith .45acp, Sig, Glock...be advised I am talking about members of Gun Fondlers Anonymous of which I admit to being a member although I only used the 1911 and Hi Power.

Now H&K and Walther.

Enduring poor H&K service over the years has given me pause, no recent experience with Walther.

I try to find domestic alternatives when possible because of our current tweaky POTUS who might cut off parts supply from overseas any day now.

I like the H&K P30 but the cost of magazines and possible spare parts shortage has cooled my desire.

The handguns I use the most now are the Shield (every day) which H&K has no analogue, the M&P .45 compact and the M&P Cores in 9mm.

Others I am sure prefer other platforms, my point being that no platform is the end all, be all for everyone (OK I know I just have been put on the Glock hit list for saying that).

I proposed one of many platform alternatives.

My likes and dislikes are not everyone else's likes an dislikes.

Alternatives, YMMV.

Art

 

 

Nick, that's a damn good deal.  Shame I'm not a LEO anymore or I'd get in on that.

 

RE: Gulf

 

Fair point about domestic products. There are plenty of guys who simply like HK handguns because of the controls or they should them (or they fit their hand etc.).  I learned on a P2000 so I like HK/Walther controls (why I own a Walther currently).

 

Has nothing to do with "ze Germans".  Then again, I prefer AKs over AR's.  Different strokes for different folks.

I have to say I'm pretty damn excited by this pistol. I've always liked the P30, and this appears to be a step in the right direction. The price point looks to be reasonable, which is usually a hurdle for folks looking into gettin an HK.

I can't wait to get my hands on one

 

 

 

Joined: 10/16/10  Location: WA

Elbows, I think one of the vendors on that forum (Cross Creek Guns?) is pre-ordering the non-LE model for $594 w/2 mags and without night sights. 
 
Originally Posted by ElbowsNC:

Nick, that's a damn good deal.  Shame I'm not a LEO anymore or I'd get in on that.

 

 

Yeah, I'm sitting on a PPQ with night sights and threaded barrel so the deal would have to be really good for me to change out at the moment.  At LEO price I'd make the swap, but the non-leo model would be $700+ with three mags and night sights etc.  I'll be holding off for now.  Still very intrigued by the handgun and would love to check one out and shoot one. 

I caved in.. I got myself on a pre order list with Grant at G&R Tactical.. I've got 6 P-30 mags and a set of Trijicon HD's,(switched sights on my 45c. P-30,45c,HD's they're both the same)  I had a P-30 LEM that I couldn't shoot very well compared to my P-2000, HK45T, CZ P-07, But looking at the pics closely, It looks as if the frame may be a different allowing for a better grip, and I 'm thinking the trigger may not be bad, So, I'm thinking I'll give it another shot, if it doesn't work out, I figure I won't have any problem getting rid of it..

Some more info:
 
Originally Posted by razzman1:

Well, it’s been very difficult keeping my mouth shut the last couple of years with this project in development, and an NDA was required to keep me quiet, but now with the official release, I can talk about the pistol.

 

First things first—I wasn’t involved in the development. The credit for the end product goes to the HK design team, and Jason, the HK shooting team captain—he has a lot of time invested in the project. But I have shot the VP9 quite a bit, and can probably answer some of your questions. Now much of this will be subjective, as everyone perceives things differently, so most of this post is considered ‘in my opinion.’

 

Let me preface all of the following by saying this: I like GLOCKs. My duty gun is a G21. My EDC was (was) a G19. I am not a ‘fan boy’ of anything, but I appreciate things that work.

 

The biggest thing: The trigger. Yes, it’s as good as the reports. I don’t have a ton of time behind a Walther trigger, but in my opinion, it’s as good as or possibly just a little bit better than the Walther. What I can reliably compare it to are stock and modified triggers in M&P and GLOCK handguns. It is easily better than stock offerings in the M&P and GLOCK line, and better than some of the aftermarket upgraded triggers found in the same.

 

The trigger in the VP9 has a light, short and smooth take-up, with no staging or gritty feel, a break that is very crisp and clean and is better than the SA portion of most DA/SA guns I have fired. It has a short and very positive reset. Compared to aftermarket triggers, I’d say the stock VP9 trigger gives many of them a run for their money. I have an M&P Pro 9 that my wife uses for 3-gun, and it has an APEX competition sear kit in it. Comparing the two, the APEX trigger pull is lighter than the stock VP9 trigger, but doesn’t break as clean, has more total travel, and has nowhere near the positive reset that the VP9 does. My G34s both have 3.5# connectors, and spring kits in them (GLOCKWORX, I think). Again, the actual trigger pull weight on the modified G34 is less than the VP9, but the break is cleaner, and you don’t have the staging that is often present in the GLOCK trigger.

 

Also, and this is one of the things I dislike about my P30 triggers, the VP9 trigger breaks much further forward and doesn’t travel nearly as far. I always disliked how the trigger on the P30 doesn’t break until the trigger is all the way back to the frame—I always felt like it was difficult to consistently pull my trigger finger straight to the rear, because the trigger had to move so far back. Not so with the VP9. All in all, I feel it’s the best stock striker trigger on the market.

 

The ‘trough’: Until a poster on AR15.com pointed it out, and voiced his dislike for it, I honestly didn’t even realize it was there. I never noticed the trough in the trigger guard when firing the VP9, but I also never felt it on my HK45 or P30s—so, YMMV, I guess.

 

Sights: The sights share the same dovetail as the P30 / HK45, so aftermarket sights for any of those guns should fit. I have a set of Dawson sights on order to find out if the same height front sight that the P30 uses will work for the VP9.

 

Charging Supports: The first time we all saw the prototype gun with the charging supports we were all like WTF? I didn’t think they really needed to be there, but HK liked them, and they weren’t going anywhere. But here’s the funny thing—when I actually got to shoot the gun, I used them every time without even thinking. They work as advertised, and I think they will be a huge plus for those with reduced hand strength who have trouble manipulating the slide—especially when their hands get wet. They really don’t get in the way of anything, and when CCing the VP9, they don’t protrude enough that you could feel them on your side. Plus, if you really don’t like them, you can drift the rear sight off and replace it with flat inserts that should be available from the web-shop.

 

Mags: It takes P30 mags, and works fine with the Taylor Freelance extensions, so a tight 20 + 1or an easy 19 + 1 is already available.

 

The magazine release paddles: The geometry of the VP9 is a little different than the P30, and the magazine sits further up in the gun. Because of this, the mag release paddles sit up slightly higher and further to the rear than the P30, making it a little easier to hit the magazine release paddles. It also makes it so that the paddles don’t rest below the trigger guard when there isn’t a magazine inserted, which can irritate the hand.

 

Holsters: This is a brand new gun, and I’m sure samples are at holster makers as we speak getting holster blanks made up. I tried the VP9 in a leather holster made for a P30, and it fit fine, but the nose hung out a quarter inch or so. I think a leather holster for a P30L should work just fine. But a word of caution on kydex holsters—during the video shoot, I made a couple of draws and the magazine fell out as I presented the gun. It took two iterations of this to figure out that because the magazine release paddles sit further up on the grip that the indented portion (where the trigger guard is) of the holster (which was molded for a P30) was touching the mag release paddles. So when I was driving my hand down on the grip, I was activating the paddles and ejecting the magazine. I make my own kydex holsters, so I just made my own, but companies are going to have make VP9-specific kydex holsters—a P30 holster may not work.

 

The grip: The VP9 grip is very similar to, and is just as ridiculously comfortable as, the P30 grip. Even more so, though—since the slide is a hair longer in the back than a P30, there is a little more ‘beavertail’ than a P30, and it feels like your hand ‘locks in’ to the grip. The panels come off and go back on the same way as a P30—although I’m not sure if they are identical to and interchangeable with the P30 panels. I’ll check on that as soon as I can. Also, the bore axis of the VP9 is a little lower than the P30, so it should theoretically recoil softer than a P30. The bore axis thing never bothered me too much with other guns, however, so again—YMMV. Felt recoil is a pretty subjective thing. Bottom line is that the VP9 is very easy to shoot well.

 

To the best of my knowledge, the VP9 uses the same recoil spring (not guide rod) as the P30. As such, you can probably expect to shoot some warm 124grn ammo for the first hundred or so rounds to break the gun in.

 

Disassembly is easy, and requires no tools, and pulling the trigger is not required. There is no magazine safety (for firing) but there is a lever that prevents further disassembly of the gun unless the magazine is removed.

 

Well, that’s all I can think of off the top of my head. If you have any questions, fire away. Oh, and I hope you enjoyed the video. It was a lot of fun to make, and the HK marketing team, along with the videographers and photographers were very professional.

 

Oh, and difficult as it might be, cut the HK guys some slack. The VP9 was supposed to be secret (well, as secret as possible) until its 'unveiling' (tonight), and HK employees weren't supposed to discuss it. I can't tell you how many times over the past year I've had to say 'I don't know what you are talking about.' And also, Jason and the NRA guy were well aware of the VP70--in fact he and I discussed it not a week before the interview. They were referring to the modern HK line, and it came out sounding the way it did probably due to editing.

Cheers!

 

Operator manual: http://www.hk-usa.com/-images/...anual%2005282014.pdf

 

Website: http://www.hk-usa.com/civilian...ucts/vp9_general.asp

Plus ça change, plus c'est la même chose.

 

老僧三十年前未參禪時、見山是山、見水是水、及至後夾親見知識、有箇入處、見山不是山、見水不是水、而今得箇體歇處、依然見山秪是山、見水秪是水。


Joined: 2008-07-16

The HK VP9 arrived today for the article I am writing on it for SWAT Magazine.

 

I rushed to the range before they closed and fired a variety of rounds--maybe 250 between it and my HK P30LS. It's not nearly the beginning of the testfiring.

 

The new HK VP9 definitely has one of the nicest factory triggers of a striker fired guns.

 

Below is a quick a photo of the VP9 above the P30LS. The VP9 has the medium backstrap while the P30LS has the large backstrap.  The VP9 came with the factory sights that are chargeable with a flashlight while the P30LS has Meprolight Tritiums.

 

Review posted on YouTube : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aDke3Zc0NPo&feature=youtu.be

 

Still want to get rid of that trough (groove) on the inside of the trigger guard. Add grip stippling and this thing will be sweet.

--------- ...I have come to the conclusion that at some point in everyone's life, some people just need a firm, swift kick to the balls... (even if they don't have any)...

This is seriously going to cut in to my desire to buy a CZ P09.... 

Cheers, Matt

"It is easy to go down into Hell; night and day, the gates of dark Death stand wide; but to climb back again, to retrace one's steps to the upper air - there's the rub, the task."    Publius Vergilius Maro, The Aeneid

Ghostrider, 

 

I own a P30, I never even noticed the groove in the trigger guard until you mentioned it. Also the grip on a P30 (so identical to the VP9) is very sticky regardless, I can't see stippling it getting you much more in the area of grip.

 

As it stands I'm unlikely to get this gun unless they come out with a safety version but I'm pretty impressed with what HK came up with.

Originally Posted by Ghostrider_911:

Still want to get rid of that trough (groove) on the inside of the trigger guard. 

What is wrong with the trough? Nobody has ever articulated why it is a bad feature.

 

Originally Posted by XGEP:

 As it stands I'm unlikely to get this gun unless they come out with a safety version but I'm pretty impressed with what HK came up with.

Is it unsafe as it is equipped now? I am curious why there is a fetish for an external safety on a gun with multiple internal safeties. Is this a duty requirement?

XGEP : Rgr. just personal preference. All of my GLOCKs and my M&P are stippled. Much more area is covered than from the factory.

 

Longeye : For some, depending on how your trigger-finger articulates the tip of the finger can be rubbed raw (hence why Bowie Tactical Concepts offers a mod/Vickers package). I hear more of this on the HK45 (pictured below) though than on the P30. I could just do without it being an issue.

 

http://i20.photobucket.com/alb...onndcj1/IMG_0209.jpg

--------- ...I have come to the conclusion that at some point in everyone's life, some people just need a firm, swift kick to the balls... (even if they don't have any)...

Originally Posted by Longeye:
Originally Posted by Ghostrider_911:

Still want to get rid of that trough (groove) on the inside of the trigger guard. 

What is wrong with the trough? Nobody has ever articulated why it is a bad feature.

 

Originally Posted by XGEP:

 As it stands I'm unlikely to get this gun unless they come out with a safety version but I'm pretty impressed with what HK came up with.

Is it unsafe as it is equipped now? I am curious why there is a fetish for an external safety on a gun with multiple internal safeties. Is this a duty requirement?

I carry AIWB, I've carried a glock that way and was just never comfortable with not being able to either ride a hammer or a safety to ensure I wasn't going to shoot myself (really only an issue with one-handed reholstering). With my glock I would always reholster two handed so I could control the barrel/clothing.

 

With my P30 I have a hammer and a safety, I carry in SA mode and ride the hammer after checking the safety. As a personal thing I also just shoot a 'rolling' trigger better than something like a 1911 or glock with a hard break.

Originally Posted by XGEP:
I carry AIWB, I've carried a glock that way and was just never comfortable with not being able to either ride a hammer or a safety to ensure I wasn't going to shoot myself (really only an issue with one-handed reholstering). With my glock I would always reholster two handed so I could control the barrel/clothing.

 

With my P30 I have a hammer and a safety, I carry in SA mode and ride the hammer after checking the safety. As a personal thing I also just shoot a 'rolling' trigger better than something like a 1911 or glock with a hard break.

This issue is the exact reason why I will probably pass on the VP9 as it stands. But, like XGEP, I do think it's shaping up to be a damn fine gun, and should work fine for almost any other application (or fearless peeps that ain't worried about AIWBing a Glock).

Plus ça change, plus c'est la même chose.

 

老僧三十年前未參禪時、見山是山、見水是水、及至後夾親見知識、有箇入處、見山不是山、見水不是水、而今得箇體歇處、依然見山秪是山、見水秪是水。


Joined: 2008-07-16

Originally Posted by Ghostrider_911:

XGEP : Rgr. just personal preference. All of my GLOCKs and my M&P are stippled. Much more area is covered than from the factory.

 

Longeye : For some, depending on how your trigger-finger articulates the tip of the finger can be rubbed raw (hence why Bowie Tactical Concepts offers a mod/Vickers package). I hear more of this on the HK45 (pictured below) though than on the P30. I could just do without it being an issue.

 

http://i20.photobucket.com/alb...onndcj1/IMG_0209.jpg

Hey I know that pistol.

 

That issue does not effect everyone so try the gun for awhile before thinking of the mods.

 

I am a firm "I like seeing a hammer" guy which is the primary reason I have stayed away from most striker type pistols.  My Shield at least has a visible, positive safety but that is a backup for me anyway.

 

Truthfully, while I will get a VP9, it will be a range toy more than anything.  My true hope is that it just makes the Glock fanboys cry.  Yes, shallow and childish I know but so are Glock guys.

-------------------------

IT'S A COLT.  THEY'RE LIKE THE HK OF GUNS.

HRH (Ret.) The Most Reverend Consig

 

 

 

 

 Joined: 28 Nov 2004: 0037hrs        Location: The worst run state in the U.S

Just retired my P-2000SK for an M&P .40C. Mags, service, parts, and holsters being among the reasons. 

 

Still use the MP-5N for serious social work though.

 

Hopefully for the LE adopters of HK's VP-9/40, Safariland will make an ALS for it.

_________________________

In yon strait path a thousand
May well be stopped by three.
Now who will stand on either hand,

And keep the bridge with me?

 

Originally Posted by Ghostrider_911:

XGEP : Rgr. just personal preference. All of my GLOCKs and my M&P are stippled. Much more area is covered than from the factory.

 

Longeye : For some, depending on how your trigger-finger articulates the tip of the finger can be rubbed raw (hence why Bowie Tactical Concepts offers a mod/Vickers package). I hear more of this on the HK45 (pictured below) though than on the P30. I could just do without it being an issue.

 

http://i20.photobucket.com/alb...onndcj1/IMG_0209.jpg

Got it. I never noticed it or could see how it could be a problem when I was running a HK45.

 

XGEP-

I copy. Finger's and clothes in trigger guards are a bad day.

Originally Posted by Ghostrider_911:

XGEP : Rgr. just personal preference. All of my GLOCKs and my M&P are stippled. Much more area is covered than from the factory.

 

Longeye : For some, depending on how your trigger-finger articulates the tip of the finger can be rubbed raw (hence why Bowie Tactical Concepts offers a mod/Vickers package). I hear more of this on the HK45 (pictured below) though than on the P30. I could just do without it being an issue.

 

http://i20.photobucket.com/alb...onndcj1/IMG_0209.jpg

I have a H&K 45 and P30 with the Vickers package. My fingers always rubbed in the trench on the trigger guard, so I'm glad I got those two done.  Now, if he'd just get my other two done that have been there for 32 weeks, I'd be ecstatic. Updated with I have a VP9 on the way with a set of Trijicon HD's following closely behind. I probably won't get to pick it up until Saturday afternoon, but I can hit the range right after it.

"Hold my beer and watch this"

Having fired the VP9, I am in.

 

I've emailed Cross Creek to inquire about getting on their pre-order.  Besides Grant, does anyone else have a list of companies offering pre-order for the VP9?

"I don't make things difficult. That's the way they get, all by themselves."
-Detective Martin Riggs
Originally Posted by K.O.A.M.:
I have a H&K 45 and P30 with the Vickers package. My fingers always rubbed in the trench on the trigger guard, so I'm glad I got those two done.  Now, if he'd just get my other two done that have been there for 32 weeks, I'd be ecstatic.

The trench in the trigger guard is not very pronounced on the VP9.  You don't even feel it with heavy recoiling ammo.

Originally Posted by Fail-Safe:

Having fired the VP9, I am in.

 

I've emailed Cross Creek to inquire about getting on their pre-order.  Besides Grant, does anyone else have a list of companies offering pre-order for the VP9?

There are several dealers on HKPro offering pre-orders but I don't recall specific names. I got on the list with Cross Creek early last week.  He also had P30 mags for $37 per on Friday, I received 3 today.

Location: Somewhere between Manteo and Murphy

A few of the YouTube video reviews are reporting shots 1-2 inches high. I know this could be a sight adjustment issue (POA/POI) but in general, can we assume these will have the accuracy of a P30/HK45?

 

It doesn't appear to have an O-ring, though neither did the P30 series. 

Originally Posted by BCMgunner:
A few of the YouTube video reviews are reporting shots 1-2 inches high. I know this could be a sight adjustment issue (POA/POI) but in general, can we assume these will have the accuracy of a P30/HK45?

It doesn't appear to have an O-ring, though neither did the P30 series.

 

Originally Posted by Caleb Giddings:
The Hornady Critical Defense FTX continued to blow me away with its accuracy, turning in a 1.7 inch group standing freestyle at 25 yards. All of the groups were shot standing, with a two hand grip. No rests or supports were used. With the Freedom Munitions XTP, the result was a 1.8 inch group, CCI Blazer turned in a 2 inch group, and the worst group of the day was a 2.3 inch group from the steel cased Tula.


Source: http://www.gunnuts.net/2014/06...ler-koch-vp9-review/

Plus ça change, plus c'est la même chose.

 

老僧三十年前未參禪時、見山是山、見水是水、及至後夾親見知識、有箇入處、見山不是山、見水不是水、而今得箇體歇處、依然見山秪是山、見水秪是水。


Joined: 2008-07-16

God damn... I can not shoot a 1.8'' group @ 25 yards UNSUPPORTED without an element of luck! gawddamn!

 

This pistol is exciting indeed, I can't for the following:

 

To rent one and see how it directly stacks against my LOW bore axis Glocks.

To see if one comes out with a manual safety ala M&P (pictures of the rear area internals show a round tunnel area that could accept the shaft of a safety).

To see if they release a 2000SK sized version for carry.

 

Oh H&K please, please, PLEASE let this be you wising up. This is a step in a very good direction.

 

 

Sneaky SF Dude: "These Iraqis have one thing going for them, if they had to be conquered, and they did, they couldn't have been conquered by a nicer bunch of guys.

Time will tell, but if they truly want to court the LE market, then they must follow up with a compact version, similar to the 2000sk. Call it a VP9sk, call it what ever you want to. But they will need a compact version at some point.  

 

I've seen and read enough to spend the money on one to try out. If the sample I end up getting performs at the level I keep reading about, I see a few more in my future.

 

I also hope that HK is doing something to ramp up their production capability. They need to get guns into people's hands. If it means dropping older designs from production like the USP series, so be it. 

 

 

 

 

 

Joined: 4-23-04                                          Location: SW Ohio

I'm not sure why people always rave about the P2000SK size guns, and ignore the P2000 size.  SK=Glock 26 in my opinion and P2000=Glock 19.  I know I'd rather have a G19, a P2000, or a compact VP9 than ANY G26/SK size subcompact.  As Basicload said, "The juice isn't worth the squeeze."

 

And in case I haven't said it today, ALL P2000/P30/VP9 HK guns need a good Dawson Precision quality ADJUSTABLE rear, fiber optic front sight option.  With that as an option I don't think I would even KEEP my glocks any more.

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