M4C's Grant Timberlake has some information, claims they should be out by July.

http://www.gandrtactical.com/i...t%20Sheet%20JUNE.pdf


 

Wonder if it'll be more conducive to MRDS mounting. MSRP is suppose to be 719 USD.

Plus ça change, plus c'est la même chose.

 

老僧三十年前未參禪時、見山是山、見水是水、及至後夾親見知識、有箇入處、見山不是山、見水不是水、而今得箇體歇處、依然見山秪是山、見水秪是水。


Joined: 2008-07-16

Original Post

Glock....Perfected.

-------------------------

IT'S A COLT.  THEY'RE LIKE THE HK OF GUNS.

HRH (Ret.) The Most Reverend Consig

Stupidity is not a skillset.

 

 

 

 

 Joined: 28 Nov 2004: 0037hrs        Location: The worst run state in the U.S

I have been waiting oh so patiently for this, I just hope to God it takes P30 mags and fits P30 holsters!

 

....and reading the provided brochure it appears that it does and it will, I shall have one or several... 

"If you are not prepared to use force to defend civilization, then be prepared to accept barbarism."         - Thomas Sowell

"A Republic, if you can keep it" - Ben Franklin

 

LOCATION: Jacksonville NC

JOINED:  Feb 2012

     

Originally Posted by rcbusmc24:

I have been waiting oh so patiently for this, I just hope to God it takes P30 mags and fits P30 holsters!

It takes P30 mags. Not so sure about the holsters, but I doubt it, since the P30 has a shorter barrel.

Plus ça change, plus c'est la même chose.

 

老僧三十年前未參禪時、見山是山、見水是水、及至後夾親見知識、有箇入處、見山不是山、見水不是水、而今得箇體歇處、依然見山秪是山、見水秪是水。


Joined: 2008-07-16

Only 10rds for me but oh yes, it shall be mine.  My precious.

-------------------------

IT'S A COLT.  THEY'RE LIKE THE HK OF GUNS.

HRH (Ret.) The Most Reverend Consig

Stupidity is not a skillset.

 

 

 

 

 Joined: 28 Nov 2004: 0037hrs        Location: The worst run state in the U.S

I have had mine for a few weeks now. It is ok. Think evolutionary, rather than revolutionary.

 

It's no 1911, but then it is not a Glock, either. By that I mean it feels good, and is accurate but on the other hand, it is reliable. The trigger pull is longer than expected, but there has been no drama otherwise.

 

Mine is in .40 Auto, so it doesn't directly compare, but it is decent. Enough so that I sent it off to get MultiCamed, and RMR'd.

 

Bottom Line, Consigliere is that you will find it to be worth the wait.

Originally Posted by Longeye:

Mine is in .40 Auto, so it doesn't directly compare, but it is decent. Enough so that I sent it off to get MultiCamed, and RMR'd.

Do you know if the RMR will need an adapter plate, or if it'll be like the M&P/Glock attachments, where only milling is needed? The P30 needs an adapter plate for the RMR, which is why I'm waiting for reviews on the Deltapoint Pro, but if the VP9 can mount an RMR without having to fuck around with an adapter, well, that decides a lot of things for me.

Plus ça change, plus c'est la même chose.

 

老僧三十年前未參禪時、見山是山、見水是水、及至後夾親見知識、有箇入處、見山不是山、見水不是水、而今得箇體歇處、依然見山秪是山、見水秪是水。


Joined: 2008-07-16

Originally Posted by Longeye:

I have no idea. This is an HK product so I just boxed it up with a couple of activated but unused credit cards and sent instructions.

Guys, please tell me you are not getting that Longeye is creating a disturbance in the net....  I have a crisp $100 bill if you can show me the "Mine is in .40 Auto, so it doesn't directly compare, but it is decent. Enough so that I sent it off to get MultiCamed, and RMR'd.".

 

Kind of funny though.....

 

 

"If I had a Grandpa, he would look like Delbert Belton"

Let those who love the LORD hate evil. The one who guards the lives of his godly ones will rescue them from the power of wicked people. Psalms 97:10 Trooper Troy Duncan-EOW 5-19-84 Deputy Erik Jon Telen-EOW 8-21-2001

1) I'd love to see how this compares to the PPQ (probably the best striker trigger in the business right now)

 

2) I think...I like the charging supports on the rear of the slide.

 

3) At the bottom of that PDF there is a small green circle which appears to show "$719" and possibly MSRP just beneath it?  If that is the case, could HK actually be pursuing legitimate police contracts with this gun, let alone could we actually see a street-price on a HK around $630-650?  I have a hard time believing this so I must be seeing things.  Surely that's my bad eyes and small PDF.

 

 

Mind...blown...unless this is a late April Fool's Joke...

Looks like they're sticking with the stupid trigger guard trough. Fuck.

------------------------

"The only appropriate way to portray radical muslims in a more positive light is to paint them festive colors before setting them on fire." - cross

"It is about basics.
The basics of gunfuckingfighting." - Pat Rogers

"We are all in this together. If not, we are fucked." - Pat Rogers

Joined: March 2006    Location: west Texas

Originally Posted by ElbowsNC:

1) I'd love to see how this compares to the PPQ (probably the best striker trigger in the business right now)

 

2) I think...I like the charging supports on the rear of the slide.

 

3) At the bottom of that PDF there is a small green circle which appears to show "$719" and possibly MSRP just beneath it?  If that is the case, could HK actually be pursuing legitimate police contracts with this gun, let alone could we actually see a street-price on a HK around $630-650?  I have a hard time believing this so I must be seeing things.  Surely that's my bad eyes and small PDF.

 

 

Mind...blown...unless this is a late April Fool's Joke...

Nope, it is real.  HK is gunning hard for the US LE market, and it is painfully obvious that they are going to have to compete on price as well as performance.  This took awhile to get right, and hopefully (and traditionally), they will not need multiple generations, upgrades, recalls, versions, etc. that have been common for the competition.   

 

In the past, it has been hard to justify a pistol for service use that is double the price.  It is going to be much easier to justify a pistol that is slightly more expensive, but does not need a "match barrel", special trigger components or a special aftermarket extractor.  

"If I had a Grandpa, he would look like Delbert Belton"

Let those who love the LORD hate evil. The one who guards the lives of his godly ones will rescue them from the power of wicked people. Psalms 97:10 Trooper Troy Duncan-EOW 5-19-84 Deputy Erik Jon Telen-EOW 8-21-2001

Originally Posted by nyeti:
Originally Posted by Longeye:

I have no idea. This is an HK product so I just boxed it up with a couple of activated but unused credit cards and sent instructions.

Guys, please tell me you are not getting that Longeye is creating a disturbance in the net....  I have a crisp $100 bill if you can show me the "Mine is in .40 Auto, so it doesn't directly compare, but it is decent. Enough so that I sent it off to get MultiCamed, and RMR'd.".

 

Kind of funny though.....

 

 

Yeah.  He's hysterical. .40 Auto  Multicam was a tad over the top.  I vote to ban him.

 

 

 

 

 

 

-------------------------

IT'S A COLT.  THEY'RE LIKE THE HK OF GUNS.

HRH (Ret.) The Most Reverend Consig

Stupidity is not a skillset.

 

 

 

 

 Joined: 28 Nov 2004: 0037hrs        Location: The worst run state in the U.S

Originally Posted by nyeti:
Originally Posted by Longeye:

I have no idea. This is an HK product so I just boxed it up with a couple of activated but unused credit cards and sent instructions.

Guys, please tell me you are not getting that Longeye is creating a disturbance in the net....  I have a crisp $100 bill if you can show me the "Mine is in .40 Auto, so it doesn't directly compare, but it is decent. Enough so that I sent it off to get MultiCamed, and RMR'd.".

 

Kind of funny though.....

 

 

Busted... That's me

In the brochure it looks like someone's kid got ahold of the left side of the ejection port with a file.  I wonder why they didn't clean those lines up a bit?
------------------------------------------------------------
Don't hit me with them negative waves so early in the morning.

Joined: 8/26/03    Location: US

Not sure what that yellow thingy is, but I suspect it's ruining my dream of an RMR mounted without needing an adapter plate:


Will have to talk to Mark Housel when this thing comes out. If the trigger is as sweet is it's rumored to be, I could get 2 VP9s for the price of 1 P30LS with a GreyGuns trigger job; would be losing out on the manual safety and hammer for holstering, though.

Plus ça change, plus c'est la même chose.

 

老僧三十年前未參禪時、見山是山、見水是水、及至後夾親見知識、有箇入處、見山不是山、見水不是水、而今得箇體歇處、依然見山秪是山、見水秪是水。


Joined: 2008-07-16

I'm hoping for two things, before I can put away my Glocks:

1.  Dawson-quality adjustable rear sight and fiber optic front.

2.  Factory or QUALITY aftermarket extended mags.

Jason -------------------------------- "Consumer, how many times have you hankered for vegan mayonnaise only to realize you're not man enough to open the jar?" -- Bucky B. Katt

Originally Posted by Beren412:
2.  Factory or QUALITY aftermarket extended mags.

http://taylorfreelance.com/sho...o&products_id=61 are probably the closest thing you'll get. Unless you can convince them to do a jet-funnel-esque set up for the P30/VP9 (I'm assuming that's what you're wanting, and not the 150 USD 30 round magazines).

Plus ça change, plus c'est la même chose.

 

老僧三十年前未參禪時、見山是山、見水是水、及至後夾親見知識、有箇入處、見山不是山、見水不是水、而今得箇體歇處、依然見山秪是山、見水秪是水。


Joined: 2008-07-16

Originally Posted by GNX:
Originally Posted by Consigliere:

Only 10rds for me but oh yes, it shall be mine.  My precious.

Ive been searching all over for 10rnd P30 in 9mm & .40 cal, where can they be found?

http://www.midwayusa.com/produ...9mm-luger-steel-blue

http://www.hkparts.net/shop/pc...739.htm#.U45bA_mwLTA

 

It's probably worth calling H&K USA and asking if they have any in stock, too; their prices are way better than HKparts usually, with reasonable shipping costs, too.

Plus ça change, plus c'est la même chose.

 

老僧三十年前未參禪時、見山是山、見水是水、及至後夾親見知識、有箇入處、見山不是山、見水不是水、而今得箇體歇處、依然見山秪是山、見水秪是水。


Joined: 2008-07-16

Originally Posted by MASSDRIVER:

Any thoughts on the slightly unconventional mag release, ala p30?

Brent.

Here, I am being serious. It works fine- it is the same design as the HK45 and some other have. While the mechanical motion is different then the push button USA norm, I find the movement to be more easily accomplished. In short, I prefer the HK take on the mag release lever.

Originally Posted by ElbowsNC:

1) I'd love to see how this compares to the PPQ (probably the best striker trigger in the business right now)


It's one of the best out of box pistol triggers period, even when compared to non-striker fired guns.  There is nothing currently in its price range that can compare in regards to trigger quality or accuracy, only triggers I've felt that are better were custom CZ's and highend/custom 1911's. 

The Walther PPQ m1 (aka PPQ Classic) & CZ P07/P09 are the best 9mm polymer pistols currently available.  However because they haven't been able to successfully tap into the LE market, and also because they don't capture the attention of the "tactitool" crowd... lower demand makes them difficult to get a hold of.

It might blow the Glock and M&P out of the water, but I seriously doubt HK will pull off a better executed design than Walther or CZ (although I would be happy if they did).

Originally Posted by Longeye:

Who is going to be distributing these? It would be nice to be on a wait list other than the VA one.

I thought you had one already.....why do you need a distributer?........

 

Thanks for the whole "I have had the .40 version for a few weeks".  It blew my phone up with inquiring minds want to know......  "Hey, a guy on Lightfighter already has one......".

 

Anyways.....I think the mag release is a positive, but I have been using those for most of my adult life, so to me they are "normal".

 

"If I had a Grandpa, he would look like Delbert Belton"

Let those who love the LORD hate evil. The one who guards the lives of his godly ones will rescue them from the power of wicked people. Psalms 97:10 Trooper Troy Duncan-EOW 5-19-84 Deputy Erik Jon Telen-EOW 8-21-2001

Originally Posted by Longeye:
Originally Posted by nyeti:
Originally Posted by Longeye:

I have no idea. This is an HK product so I just boxed it up with a couple of activated but unused credit cards and sent instructions.

Guys, please tell me you are not getting that Longeye is creating a disturbance in the net....  I have a crisp $100 bill if you can show me the "Mine is in .40 Auto, so it doesn't directly compare, but it is decent. Enough so that I sent it off to get MultiCamed, and RMR'd.".

 

Kind of funny though.....

 

 

Busted... That's me

 

 

Why is this acceptable behavior? WTF?

 

 

Sneaky SF Dude: "These Iraqis have one thing going for them, if they had to be conquered, and they did, they couldn't have been conquered by a nicer bunch of guys.

One thing that I hope those wily Teutons figured out ahead of time is that they're going to need holsters that accomodate lights to sell these pistols to law enforcement.  I have wanted to use my P30 as a substitute duty pistol for years, but can't find a holster I like.  I hope they went to Safariland and got something going early.

 

Updated with I preordered one of the LE versions through one of the HK Pro group buys. I am sitting on a bunch of P30 magazines, so I'll be out the cost of some Trijicon HD's and a holster to get it where I can use it.

"Hold my beer and watch this"

Originally Posted by Runcible:
One hopes that it will be able to fit a Surefire X-series light without modification to either. Heck, the LD DBAL-PL would be convenient to fit, too.

Who will be the first to figure out MRDS mounting?

The X300/300U's fit great with the U plate on the P30 series.  I'll be moving my 300U off my P30L to the VP9 when it gets here.......that LD DBAL-PL will probably go on the P30L

"If I had a Grandpa, he would look like Delbert Belton"

Let those who love the LORD hate evil. The one who guards the lives of his godly ones will rescue them from the power of wicked people. Psalms 97:10 Trooper Troy Duncan-EOW 5-19-84 Deputy Erik Jon Telen-EOW 8-21-2001

is it my imagination or did HK screw up the grip to bore ration yet again....loved the P7 series....HK love went out the window with USP ever after. 

 

I will always like their ambi-mag release though. 

 

Boltgun

Originally Posted by K.O.A.M.:

One thing that I hope those wily Teutons figured out ahead of time is that they're going to need holsters that accomodate lights to sell these pistols to law enforcement.  I have wanted to use my P30 as a substitute duty pistol for years, but can't find a holster I like.  I hope they went to Safariland and got something going early.

If nothing else: HK45 is 1.42" wide, VP9 is listed at 1.32". So with the tension screw tightened up on a SLS or possibly ALS holster, you might have a option there or with one of the USP holster variants.

 

Let me check-

 

But nope, the USP is only 1.26" wide. (per HK corp. website specs.) Hopefully one of our HK fans can chime in when this hits the street.

If they width measurement is of the thickest point in the crosssection, might that be misleading unless strictly measuring slide-widths?

With the HK45's that'd be the safety\decocker lever, the VP9 the T-handle at the rear, and damfino on the USP based on the options available.

Jules

On a lark, I compared the stated dimensions with my work gun:

          P229          VP9          /\                                   G19     G17
OAL:   7.1"          7.34"          VP9 is ~1/4" longer        7.36"   8.03"

OAW:  1.5"          1.32"          VP9 is ~3/16" narrower   1.18"   1.18"

OAH:   5.4"          5.41"          VP9 is 1/10" taller         4.99"   5.43"

I tossed in the G19 and G17 dimensions at the end. Interestingly, the diagram on the Glock website describes the measurement as the slide width, rather then the widest measurement of the frame.

Jules

Over on HKpro, someone superimposed a pic of the VP9 over a Walther PPQ, they were surprisingly close, Also over, there another poster happened to be is his local gun shop when the HK rep shows up with one, and he dry fired it a few times. From what this person said, the trigger was "right up there with a PPQ" so, looking at the superimposed pic, and reading this, I'm beginning to wonder if the VP9 isn't a slightly more refined PPQ..I don't know.. I applaud HK for finally bringing this out, But I don't think I'll be buying one.. I've been fooling around with a CZ P-07, and I'm going to get some work done to it (CGW short reset kit, polish, better sights) and go that route.. I tried the P-30, long story short, it didn't work out..

Frankly, that seems unlikely from my end. If there were ever two near-twins, the Walther PPS and the M&P Shield are an uncanny duo. But as with all such things, they separate in the specifics and the minute, and remain in common with what they're built around - a given cartridge dimension, with the geometry that must follow, and so forth.

How close would a P30 be, if compared to a PPQ?

Jules

Yeah, while they are shockingly similar they do not share anything (short of the occasional holster).  A lot of folks, myself included, picked up a PPQ (I have a first edition paddle gun) because of the lack of a P30 with a striker.  The controls are very similar - though I operate the Walther mag release differently then my old P2000.

 

If you look at the slide and features the PPQ is just the evolution of the P99 line of handguns.  So while very similar, that's about it.  My special edition PPQ was $692 shipped when I picked it up, while standard PPQ's were around $492 (had one of those too).  So even the price will be close.  Not sure what the Gen 2's go for.

 

The PPQ is very tough, nigh impossible to mount an RDS on without a lot of work/money, etc.  If the P30 is capable of taking one (I doubt it), then I'll make an effort to switch over.

I may be talking to the wrong crowd but the new 9mm M&P's work like they should, mags and parts are available along with holsters.

You buy into a system, .22 lr., .380, 9mm. M&P and Shield, 40 S&W and .45 acp.

I have a long slide, high sight version (CORE?) works well for me (old eyes work better with bigger high sights).

I guess there are folks who just have to have a "German Gun", remember all the guys who thought the Luger was so great before the 1911 became the rage, then the Glock and now G-d knows what else.

If it is foreign, it must be better...hell people are even using 1911's made over seas that they claim are better than one made in the US (this may have been true fifteen years ago but not now).

Not to break anyone's rice bowel but many of these "German Guns" are made here in the good old USA by the same folks who may have worked for Beemer or Mercedes.

I am not saying the M&P is superior to the "German Super Guns" but it is an alternative.

Rant off.

Art

 

So other then the hyperbole and strangeness, what's your point? 

You have countered no arguments made here, and I frankly don't know what you're getting at. 

However, to address one of your points: no, I don't remember when all of the guys thought the Luger was better then the 1911.

Jules

Many in the 1920's and 1930's thought the Luger superior, then later we had the Hi Power thing, Lightweight Commander (still have two), Combat Commander, Star LW, full size 1911, Smith .45acp, Sig, Glock...be advised I am talking about members of Gun Fondlers Anonymous of which I admit to being a member although I only used the 1911 and Hi Power.

Now H&K and Walther.

Enduring poor H&K service over the years has given me pause, no recent experience with Walther.

I try to find domestic alternatives when possible because of our current tweaky POTUS who might cut off parts supply from overseas any day now.

I like the H&K P30 but the cost of magazines and possible spare parts shortage has cooled my desire.

The handguns I use the most now are the Shield (every day) which H&K has no analogue, the M&P .45 compact and the M&P Cores in 9mm.

Others I am sure prefer other platforms, my point being that no platform is the end all, be all for everyone (OK I know I just have been put on the Glock hit list for saying that).

I proposed one of many platform alternatives.

My likes and dislikes are not everyone else's likes an dislikes.

Alternatives, YMMV.

Art

 

 

Nick, that's a damn good deal.  Shame I'm not a LEO anymore or I'd get in on that.

 

RE: Gulf

 

Fair point about domestic products. There are plenty of guys who simply like HK handguns because of the controls or they should them (or they fit their hand etc.).  I learned on a P2000 so I like HK/Walther controls (why I own a Walther currently).

 

Has nothing to do with "ze Germans".  Then again, I prefer AKs over AR's.  Different strokes for different folks.

I have to say I'm pretty damn excited by this pistol. I've always liked the P30, and this appears to be a step in the right direction. The price point looks to be reasonable, which is usually a hurdle for folks looking into gettin an HK.

I can't wait to get my hands on one

 

 

 

Joined: 10/16/10  Location: WA

Elbows, I think one of the vendors on that forum (Cross Creek Guns?) is pre-ordering the non-LE model for $594 w/2 mags and without night sights. 
 
Originally Posted by ElbowsNC:

Nick, that's a damn good deal.  Shame I'm not a LEO anymore or I'd get in on that.

 

 

Yeah, I'm sitting on a PPQ with night sights and threaded barrel so the deal would have to be really good for me to change out at the moment.  At LEO price I'd make the swap, but the non-leo model would be $700+ with three mags and night sights etc.  I'll be holding off for now.  Still very intrigued by the handgun and would love to check one out and shoot one. 

I caved in.. I got myself on a pre order list with Grant at G&R Tactical.. I've got 6 P-30 mags and a set of Trijicon HD's,(switched sights on my 45c. P-30,45c,HD's they're both the same)  I had a P-30 LEM that I couldn't shoot very well compared to my P-2000, HK45T, CZ P-07, But looking at the pics closely, It looks as if the frame may be a different allowing for a better grip, and I 'm thinking the trigger may not be bad, So, I'm thinking I'll give it another shot, if it doesn't work out, I figure I won't have any problem getting rid of it..

Some more info:
 
Originally Posted by razzman1:

Well, it’s been very difficult keeping my mouth shut the last couple of years with this project in development, and an NDA was required to keep me quiet, but now with the official release, I can talk about the pistol.

 

First things first—I wasn’t involved in the development. The credit for the end product goes to the HK design team, and Jason, the HK shooting team captain—he has a lot of time invested in the project. But I have shot the VP9 quite a bit, and can probably answer some of your questions. Now much of this will be subjective, as everyone perceives things differently, so most of this post is considered ‘in my opinion.’

 

Let me preface all of the following by saying this: I like GLOCKs. My duty gun is a G21. My EDC was (was) a G19. I am not a ‘fan boy’ of anything, but I appreciate things that work.

 

The biggest thing: The trigger. Yes, it’s as good as the reports. I don’t have a ton of time behind a Walther trigger, but in my opinion, it’s as good as or possibly just a little bit better than the Walther. What I can reliably compare it to are stock and modified triggers in M&P and GLOCK handguns. It is easily better than stock offerings in the M&P and GLOCK line, and better than some of the aftermarket upgraded triggers found in the same.

 

The trigger in the VP9 has a light, short and smooth take-up, with no staging or gritty feel, a break that is very crisp and clean and is better than the SA portion of most DA/SA guns I have fired. It has a short and very positive reset. Compared to aftermarket triggers, I’d say the stock VP9 trigger gives many of them a run for their money. I have an M&P Pro 9 that my wife uses for 3-gun, and it has an APEX competition sear kit in it. Comparing the two, the APEX trigger pull is lighter than the stock VP9 trigger, but doesn’t break as clean, has more total travel, and has nowhere near the positive reset that the VP9 does. My G34s both have 3.5# connectors, and spring kits in them (GLOCKWORX, I think). Again, the actual trigger pull weight on the modified G34 is less than the VP9, but the break is cleaner, and you don’t have the staging that is often present in the GLOCK trigger.

 

Also, and this is one of the things I dislike about my P30 triggers, the VP9 trigger breaks much further forward and doesn’t travel nearly as far. I always disliked how the trigger on the P30 doesn’t break until the trigger is all the way back to the frame—I always felt like it was difficult to consistently pull my trigger finger straight to the rear, because the trigger had to move so far back. Not so with the VP9. All in all, I feel it’s the best stock striker trigger on the market.

 

The ‘trough’: Until a poster on AR15.com pointed it out, and voiced his dislike for it, I honestly didn’t even realize it was there. I never noticed the trough in the trigger guard when firing the VP9, but I also never felt it on my HK45 or P30s—so, YMMV, I guess.

 

Sights: The sights share the same dovetail as the P30 / HK45, so aftermarket sights for any of those guns should fit. I have a set of Dawson sights on order to find out if the same height front sight that the P30 uses will work for the VP9.

 

Charging Supports: The first time we all saw the prototype gun with the charging supports we were all like WTF? I didn’t think they really needed to be there, but HK liked them, and they weren’t going anywhere. But here’s the funny thing—when I actually got to shoot the gun, I used them every time without even thinking. They work as advertised, and I think they will be a huge plus for those with reduced hand strength who have trouble manipulating the slide—especially when their hands get wet. They really don’t get in the way of anything, and when CCing the VP9, they don’t protrude enough that you could feel them on your side. Plus, if you really don’t like them, you can drift the rear sight off and replace it with flat inserts that should be available from the web-shop.

 

Mags: It takes P30 mags, and works fine with the Taylor Freelance extensions, so a tight 20 + 1or an easy 19 + 1 is already available.

 

The magazine release paddles: The geometry of the VP9 is a little different than the P30, and the magazine sits further up in the gun. Because of this, the mag release paddles sit up slightly higher and further to the rear than the P30, making it a little easier to hit the magazine release paddles. It also makes it so that the paddles don’t rest below the trigger guard when there isn’t a magazine inserted, which can irritate the hand.

 

Holsters: This is a brand new gun, and I’m sure samples are at holster makers as we speak getting holster blanks made up. I tried the VP9 in a leather holster made for a P30, and it fit fine, but the nose hung out a quarter inch or so. I think a leather holster for a P30L should work just fine. But a word of caution on kydex holsters—during the video shoot, I made a couple of draws and the magazine fell out as I presented the gun. It took two iterations of this to figure out that because the magazine release paddles sit further up on the grip that the indented portion (where the trigger guard is) of the holster (which was molded for a P30) was touching the mag release paddles. So when I was driving my hand down on the grip, I was activating the paddles and ejecting the magazine. I make my own kydex holsters, so I just made my own, but companies are going to have make VP9-specific kydex holsters—a P30 holster may not work.

 

The grip: The VP9 grip is very similar to, and is just as ridiculously comfortable as, the P30 grip. Even more so, though—since the slide is a hair longer in the back than a P30, there is a little more ‘beavertail’ than a P30, and it feels like your hand ‘locks in’ to the grip. The panels come off and go back on the same way as a P30—although I’m not sure if they are identical to and interchangeable with the P30 panels. I’ll check on that as soon as I can. Also, the bore axis of the VP9 is a little lower than the P30, so it should theoretically recoil softer than a P30. The bore axis thing never bothered me too much with other guns, however, so again—YMMV. Felt recoil is a pretty subjective thing. Bottom line is that the VP9 is very easy to shoot well.

 

To the best of my knowledge, the VP9 uses the same recoil spring (not guide rod) as the P30. As such, you can probably expect to shoot some warm 124grn ammo for the first hundred or so rounds to break the gun in.

 

Disassembly is easy, and requires no tools, and pulling the trigger is not required. There is no magazine safety (for firing) but there is a lever that prevents further disassembly of the gun unless the magazine is removed.

 

Well, that’s all I can think of off the top of my head. If you have any questions, fire away. Oh, and I hope you enjoyed the video. It was a lot of fun to make, and the HK marketing team, along with the videographers and photographers were very professional.

 

Oh, and difficult as it might be, cut the HK guys some slack. The VP9 was supposed to be secret (well, as secret as possible) until its 'unveiling' (tonight), and HK employees weren't supposed to discuss it. I can't tell you how many times over the past year I've had to say 'I don't know what you are talking about.' And also, Jason and the NRA guy were well aware of the VP70--in fact he and I discussed it not a week before the interview. They were referring to the modern HK line, and it came out sounding the way it did probably due to editing.

Cheers!

 

Operator manual: http://www.hk-usa.com/-images/...anual%2005282014.pdf

 

Website: http://www.hk-usa.com/civilian...ucts/vp9_general.asp

Plus ça change, plus c'est la même chose.

 

老僧三十年前未參禪時、見山是山、見水是水、及至後夾親見知識、有箇入處、見山不是山、見水不是水、而今得箇體歇處、依然見山秪是山、見水秪是水。


Joined: 2008-07-16

The HK VP9 arrived today for the article I am writing on it for SWAT Magazine.

 

I rushed to the range before they closed and fired a variety of rounds--maybe 250 between it and my HK P30LS. It's not nearly the beginning of the testfiring.

 

The new HK VP9 definitely has one of the nicest factory triggers of a striker fired guns.

 

Below is a quick a photo of the VP9 above the P30LS. The VP9 has the medium backstrap while the P30LS has the large backstrap.  The VP9 came with the factory sights that are chargeable with a flashlight while the P30LS has Meprolight Tritiums.

 

Review posted on YouTube : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aDke3Zc0NPo&feature=youtu.be

 

Still want to get rid of that trough (groove) on the inside of the trigger guard. Add grip stippling and this thing will be sweet.

--------- ...I have come to the conclusion that at some point in everyone's life, some people just need a firm, swift kick to the balls... (even if they don't have any)...

This is seriously going to cut in to my desire to buy a CZ P09.... 

Cheers, Matt

"It is easy to go down into Hell; night and day, the gates of dark Death stand wide; but to climb back again, to retrace one's steps to the upper air - there's the rub, the task."    Publius Vergilius Maro, The Aeneid

Ghostrider, 

 

I own a P30, I never even noticed the groove in the trigger guard until you mentioned it. Also the grip on a P30 (so identical to the VP9) is very sticky regardless, I can't see stippling it getting you much more in the area of grip.

 

As it stands I'm unlikely to get this gun unless they come out with a safety version but I'm pretty impressed with what HK came up with.

Originally Posted by Ghostrider_911:

Still want to get rid of that trough (groove) on the inside of the trigger guard. 

What is wrong with the trough? Nobody has ever articulated why it is a bad feature.

 

Originally Posted by XGEP:

 As it stands I'm unlikely to get this gun unless they come out with a safety version but I'm pretty impressed with what HK came up with.

Is it unsafe as it is equipped now? I am curious why there is a fetish for an external safety on a gun with multiple internal safeties. Is this a duty requirement?

XGEP : Rgr. just personal preference. All of my GLOCKs and my M&P are stippled. Much more area is covered than from the factory.

 

Longeye : For some, depending on how your trigger-finger articulates the tip of the finger can be rubbed raw (hence why Bowie Tactical Concepts offers a mod/Vickers package). I hear more of this on the HK45 (pictured below) though than on the P30. I could just do without it being an issue.

 

http://i20.photobucket.com/alb...onndcj1/IMG_0209.jpg

--------- ...I have come to the conclusion that at some point in everyone's life, some people just need a firm, swift kick to the balls... (even if they don't have any)...

Originally Posted by Longeye:
Originally Posted by Ghostrider_911:

Still want to get rid of that trough (groove) on the inside of the trigger guard. 

What is wrong with the trough? Nobody has ever articulated why it is a bad feature.

 

Originally Posted by XGEP:

 As it stands I'm unlikely to get this gun unless they come out with a safety version but I'm pretty impressed with what HK came up with.

Is it unsafe as it is equipped now? I am curious why there is a fetish for an external safety on a gun with multiple internal safeties. Is this a duty requirement?

I carry AIWB, I've carried a glock that way and was just never comfortable with not being able to either ride a hammer or a safety to ensure I wasn't going to shoot myself (really only an issue with one-handed reholstering). With my glock I would always reholster two handed so I could control the barrel/clothing.

 

With my P30 I have a hammer and a safety, I carry in SA mode and ride the hammer after checking the safety. As a personal thing I also just shoot a 'rolling' trigger better than something like a 1911 or glock with a hard break.

Originally Posted by XGEP:
I carry AIWB, I've carried a glock that way and was just never comfortable with not being able to either ride a hammer or a safety to ensure I wasn't going to shoot myself (really only an issue with one-handed reholstering). With my glock I would always reholster two handed so I could control the barrel/clothing.

 

With my P30 I have a hammer and a safety, I carry in SA mode and ride the hammer after checking the safety. As a personal thing I also just shoot a 'rolling' trigger better than something like a 1911 or glock with a hard break.

This issue is the exact reason why I will probably pass on the VP9 as it stands. But, like XGEP, I do think it's shaping up to be a damn fine gun, and should work fine for almost any other application (or fearless peeps that ain't worried about AIWBing a Glock).

Plus ça change, plus c'est la même chose.

 

老僧三十年前未參禪時、見山是山、見水是水、及至後夾親見知識、有箇入處、見山不是山、見水不是水、而今得箇體歇處、依然見山秪是山、見水秪是水。


Joined: 2008-07-16

Originally Posted by Ghostrider_911:

XGEP : Rgr. just personal preference. All of my GLOCKs and my M&P are stippled. Much more area is covered than from the factory.

 

Longeye : For some, depending on how your trigger-finger articulates the tip of the finger can be rubbed raw (hence why Bowie Tactical Concepts offers a mod/Vickers package). I hear more of this on the HK45 (pictured below) though than on the P30. I could just do without it being an issue.

 

http://i20.photobucket.com/alb...onndcj1/IMG_0209.jpg

Hey I know that pistol.

 

That issue does not effect everyone so try the gun for awhile before thinking of the mods.

 

I am a firm "I like seeing a hammer" guy which is the primary reason I have stayed away from most striker type pistols.  My Shield at least has a visible, positive safety but that is a backup for me anyway.

 

Truthfully, while I will get a VP9, it will be a range toy more than anything.  My true hope is that it just makes the Glock fanboys cry.  Yes, shallow and childish I know but so are Glock guys.

-------------------------

IT'S A COLT.  THEY'RE LIKE THE HK OF GUNS.

HRH (Ret.) The Most Reverend Consig

Stupidity is not a skillset.

 

 

 

 

 Joined: 28 Nov 2004: 0037hrs        Location: The worst run state in the U.S

Just retired my P-2000SK for an M&P .40C. Mags, service, parts, and holsters being among the reasons. 

 

Still use the MP-5N for serious social work though.

 

Hopefully for the LE adopters of HK's VP-9/40, Safariland will make an ALS for it.

_________________________

In yon strait path a thousand
May well be stopped by three.
Now who will stand on either hand,

And keep the bridge with me?

 

Originally Posted by Ghostrider_911:

XGEP : Rgr. just personal preference. All of my GLOCKs and my M&P are stippled. Much more area is covered than from the factory.

 

Longeye : For some, depending on how your trigger-finger articulates the tip of the finger can be rubbed raw (hence why Bowie Tactical Concepts offers a mod/Vickers package). I hear more of this on the HK45 (pictured below) though than on the P30. I could just do without it being an issue.

 

http://i20.photobucket.com/alb...onndcj1/IMG_0209.jpg

Got it. I never noticed it or could see how it could be a problem when I was running a HK45.

 

XGEP-

I copy. Finger's and clothes in trigger guards are a bad day.

Originally Posted by Ghostrider_911:

XGEP : Rgr. just personal preference. All of my GLOCKs and my M&P are stippled. Much more area is covered than from the factory.

 

Longeye : For some, depending on how your trigger-finger articulates the tip of the finger can be rubbed raw (hence why Bowie Tactical Concepts offers a mod/Vickers package). I hear more of this on the HK45 (pictured below) though than on the P30. I could just do without it being an issue.

 

http://i20.photobucket.com/alb...onndcj1/IMG_0209.jpg

I have a H&K 45 and P30 with the Vickers package. My fingers always rubbed in the trench on the trigger guard, so I'm glad I got those two done.  Now, if he'd just get my other two done that have been there for 32 weeks, I'd be ecstatic. Updated with I have a VP9 on the way with a set of Trijicon HD's following closely behind. I probably won't get to pick it up until Saturday afternoon, but I can hit the range right after it.

"Hold my beer and watch this"

Having fired the VP9, I am in.

 

I've emailed Cross Creek to inquire about getting on their pre-order.  Besides Grant, does anyone else have a list of companies offering pre-order for the VP9?

"I don't make things difficult. That's the way they get, all by themselves."
-Detective Martin Riggs
Originally Posted by K.O.A.M.:
I have a H&K 45 and P30 with the Vickers package. My fingers always rubbed in the trench on the trigger guard, so I'm glad I got those two done.  Now, if he'd just get my other two done that have been there for 32 weeks, I'd be ecstatic.

The trench in the trigger guard is not very pronounced on the VP9.  You don't even feel it with heavy recoiling ammo.

Originally Posted by Fail-Safe:

Having fired the VP9, I am in.

 

I've emailed Cross Creek to inquire about getting on their pre-order.  Besides Grant, does anyone else have a list of companies offering pre-order for the VP9?

There are several dealers on HKPro offering pre-orders but I don't recall specific names. I got on the list with Cross Creek early last week.  He also had P30 mags for $37 per on Friday, I received 3 today.

Location: Somewhere between Manteo and Murphy

A few of the YouTube video reviews are reporting shots 1-2 inches high. I know this could be a sight adjustment issue (POA/POI) but in general, can we assume these will have the accuracy of a P30/HK45?

 

It doesn't appear to have an O-ring, though neither did the P30 series. 

Originally Posted by BCMgunner:
A few of the YouTube video reviews are reporting shots 1-2 inches high. I know this could be a sight adjustment issue (POA/POI) but in general, can we assume these will have the accuracy of a P30/HK45?

It doesn't appear to have an O-ring, though neither did the P30 series.

 

Originally Posted by Caleb Giddings:
The Hornady Critical Defense FTX continued to blow me away with its accuracy, turning in a 1.7 inch group standing freestyle at 25 yards. All of the groups were shot standing, with a two hand grip. No rests or supports were used. With the Freedom Munitions XTP, the result was a 1.8 inch group, CCI Blazer turned in a 2 inch group, and the worst group of the day was a 2.3 inch group from the steel cased Tula.


Source: http://www.gunnuts.net/2014/06...ler-koch-vp9-review/

Plus ça change, plus c'est la même chose.

 

老僧三十年前未參禪時、見山是山、見水是水、及至後夾親見知識、有箇入處、見山不是山、見水不是水、而今得箇體歇處、依然見山秪是山、見水秪是水。


Joined: 2008-07-16

God damn... I can not shoot a 1.8'' group @ 25 yards UNSUPPORTED without an element of luck! gawddamn!

 

This pistol is exciting indeed, I can't for the following:

 

To rent one and see how it directly stacks against my LOW bore axis Glocks.

To see if one comes out with a manual safety ala M&P (pictures of the rear area internals show a round tunnel area that could accept the shaft of a safety).

To see if they release a 2000SK sized version for carry.

 

Oh H&K please, please, PLEASE let this be you wising up. This is a step in a very good direction.

 

 

Sneaky SF Dude: "These Iraqis have one thing going for them, if they had to be conquered, and they did, they couldn't have been conquered by a nicer bunch of guys.

Time will tell, but if they truly want to court the LE market, then they must follow up with a compact version, similar to the 2000sk. Call it a VP9sk, call it what ever you want to. But they will need a compact version at some point.  

 

I've seen and read enough to spend the money on one to try out. If the sample I end up getting performs at the level I keep reading about, I see a few more in my future.

 

I also hope that HK is doing something to ramp up their production capability. They need to get guns into people's hands. If it means dropping older designs from production like the USP series, so be it. 

 

 

 

 

 

Joined: 4-23-04                                          Location: SW Ohio

I'm not sure why people always rave about the P2000SK size guns, and ignore the P2000 size.  SK=Glock 26 in my opinion and P2000=Glock 19.  I know I'd rather have a G19, a P2000, or a compact VP9 than ANY G26/SK size subcompact.  As Basicload said, "The juice isn't worth the squeeze."

 

And in case I haven't said it today, ALL P2000/P30/VP9 HK guns need a good Dawson Precision quality ADJUSTABLE rear, fiber optic front sight option.  With that as an option I don't think I would even KEEP my glocks any more.

Originally Posted by ClosetCaseNerd:

God damn... I can not shoot a 1.8'' group @ 25 yards UNSUPPORTED without an element of luck! gawddamn!

 

Using a T&E VP9 that I am reviewing for an article, I managed some 3" & 4" five shot groups unsupported at 25 yards.  I'm sure someone who shoots better could manage tighter groups.

I contacted Bravo Concealment, and they said that they will have a sample within a month, and will post it on their website when they have them ready...

"It is simple....the job, and the system hate you, and you only have you and your fellow officers.......and many of them are questionable." 

Originally Posted by Default.mp3:
Originally Posted by Longeye:

Mine is in .40 Auto, so it doesn't directly compare, but it is decent. Enough so that I sent it off to get MultiCamed, and RMR'd.

Do you know if the RMR will need an adapter plate, or if it'll be like the M&P/Glock attachments, where only milling is needed? The P30 needs an adapter plate for the RMR, which is why I'm waiting for reviews on the Deltapoint Pro, but if the VP9 can mount an RMR without having to fuck around with an adapter, well, that decides a lot of things for me.

From looking at the pictures this thing appears to be very similar to a P30/P2000 so it will require an adapter for an RMR.

 

I find that there isn't much difference internally between the various HK slides I've put RMR's on.  The differences are mostly in the profile of the slide and the location of the rear sight dovetail. Some have enough meat behind the dovetail for a new dovetail for a rear sight, others require me to fill the factory dovetail to give enough material.

 

To directly mount any optic will definitely require the rear dovetail to be filled as the slide can't be milled to the depth of the dovetail due to the safety plunger.  This requires that the slide be refinished after the filler is brazed in place.

 

In the case of the adapter, the adapter makes up the length of the safety system with a milled spring capture pocket on the underside.

 

Someone called me today about this model so I may get to handle one directly ao I'll know for certain what can / can't be done.

 

 

================================================

FFL Type 01

"I have learned that wisdom can be as simple as substituting facts for assumptions."

Originally Posted by Mark Housel:
Originally Posted by Default.mp3:
Originally Posted by Longeye:
Mine is in .40 Auto, so it doesn't directly compare, but it is decent. Enough so that I sent it off to get MultiCamed, and RMR'd.
Do you know if the RMR will need an adapter plate, or if it'll be like the M&P/Glock attachments, where only milling is needed? The P30 needs an adapter plate for the RMR, which is why I'm waiting for reviews on the Deltapoint Pro, but if the VP9 can mount an RMR without having to fuck around with an adapter, well, that decides a lot of things for me.
From looking at the pictures this thing appears to be very similar to a P30/P2000 so it will require an adapter for an RMR.

I find that there isn't much difference internally between the various HK slides I've put RMR's on.  The differences are mostly in the profile of the slide and the location of the rear sight dovetail. Some have enough meat behind the dovetail for a new dovetail for a rear sight, others require me to fill the factory dovetail to give enough material.

To directly mount any optic will definitely require the rear dovetail to be filled as the slide can't be milled to the depth of the dovetail due to the safety plunger.  This requires that the slide be refinished after the filler is brazed in place.

In the case of the adapter, the adapter makes up the length of the safety system with a milled spring capture pocket on the underside.

Someone called me today about this model so I may get to handle one directly ao I'll know for certain what can / can't be done.


Thanks for the reply, Mark. Please keep us posted, even though I'll probably be sticking with the P30 line (and thus stuck waiting on Leupold), just because of my desire to have a hammer for AIWB.

Plus ça change, plus c'est la même chose.

 

老僧三十年前未參禪時、見山是山、見水是水、及至後夾親見知識、有箇入處、見山不是山、見水不是水、而今得箇體歇處、依然見山秪是山、見水秪是水。


Joined: 2008-07-16

I had the chance to shoot one today. It's a buddy's so I'll have ample opportunity to shoot it until I get mine. Initial impressions are that the trigger was really gritty and stages right before the break. I'm used to the LEM trigger so it's just something I'll have to get used to on this gun. Shooting it back to back with the new Sig P320 I actually prefer the ergos of the 320 over the VP9. The VP9 does not feel like the P30 which is disappointing. One thing I hate that pistol manufacturers do is make the palm swell huge, but keep the "LOP" the same. The VP9 suffers from this as well. The slide charger things have got to go. Not a fan.

As far as shooting goes though - it was fast. Like shooting a PPQ. I think the trigger on the 320 was slightly better, but take it FWIW. I HATE Sigs, so keep this in mind. I do think that once is smooths out it will be the best striker fired trigger out there. The awesome paddle mag release is still there and one of my favorite features of the H&K pistols. The VP9 is the softest shooting 9mm full size pistol I've ever shot. The 320 was really clunky and seemed to jump around a lot. The VP9 tracked easily and quickly. Shooting it was a blast and multiple shots were easily accomplished due to the short movement of the trigger.

Overall I liked it. I'll have to play around with the palm swell. On the P30 I use a med back and large sides. Today it was med all the way around. This will easily blow Glock and (sadly) S&W out of the market. The M&P is still supreme in my eyes because of the grip laser by Crimson Trace. If they release one for the V/P series guns I'll have some serious thinking to do.




------------------------------
HOUSTON, TEXAS/DEC 2003

 

"Never think that you deserve more because of where you work or what you've done."

 -Rob Trivino

Also - the Comp Tac Flatline holster works for these. Tried it out today. Couldn't edit, sorry.

One last thing - accuracy was excellent. Rapid fire at 7 yards had it all within the 2" circle. I stopped and checked the target to make sure I wasn't missing. Sure enough they were all there. I plan to stretch it out to 25 soon to see how it does compared to the P30.

------------------------------
HOUSTON, TEXAS/DEC 2003

 

"Never think that you deserve more because of where you work or what you've done."

 -Rob Trivino

I don't think M&P will be completely blown out of the water...because it has superior ergos and the APEX trigger brings it where it needs to be.  Glock should be worried though...

"It is simple....the job, and the system hate you, and you only have you and your fellow officers.......and many of them are questionable." 

With new guns coming out like the FNH FNS, Walther PPQ, Sig 320, and the VP9 the other guys better take notes. Those aforementioned companies are doing their research and listening to customers. They are the current leaders as far as just the pistol design is concerned. Beretta, Glock, Springfield, etc are going to have to take it up a notch. I think we're going to see the death of the Glock in the near future. Gaston can ETADIK with a little bit of "perfection" sprinkled on top.

Glock is still a viable option only because of the myriad of accessories for it. As far as the pistol itself goes, it's lagging far, far behind.

------------------------------
HOUSTON, TEXAS/DEC 2003

 

"Never think that you deserve more because of where you work or what you've done."

 -Rob Trivino

But as long as they give dirt cheap prices to police departments...they will stick around. More forward-thinking departments are going with the M&P line though. Miami Beach Police just got rid of their Sig P226's and went to M&P .40.

"It is simple....the job, and the system hate you, and you only have you and your fellow officers.......and many of them are questionable." 

Originally Posted by BrooklynBacon:
But as long as they give dirt cheap prices to police departments...they will stick around. More forward-thinking departments are going with the M&P line though. Miami Beach Police just got rid of their Sig P226's and went to M&P .40.

How cheap is dirt cheap? 

 

I was at my favorite local gunstore and asked about the VP9.  They looked it up on their wholesaler websites (2) and said they were going to get some in when they were available.  The GSG said it'd retail there for about $610 plus tax.  That's a very decent price if this thing lives up to the HK rep for quality.  It'll probably drop even lower after it's been out a while.

 

I strongly suspect that Glock and S&W will cut their prices aggressively on their products if the VP9 gains serious traction in the market place.

"The individual has always had to struggle to keep from being overwhelmed by the tribe. To be your own man is a hard business. If you try it, you'll be lonely often, and sometimes frightened. But no price is too high to pay for the privilege of owning yourself." - Rudyard Kipling

How cheap are Glocks now? I know here in FL, LEO pricing for a Glock 17/19/22 for instance is like $350..so what are departments paying for that..especially in bulk? They're gonna have to cut their prices to stay competitive...because it takes just as much to make a Glock/S&W actually a war-ready gun, as it does for a HK out of the box ready...

"It is simple....the job, and the system hate you, and you only have you and your fellow officers.......and many of them are questionable." 

I picked mine up today. The range test will come this weekend. It does not lock into my Safariland ALS holster made for the P30-I suspect it's that forward protrusion on the rail that does it. It points well and the trigger is nice for a striker fired pistol. It's not quite at my P7M8's level, but it is a really nice striker trigger.  When I get home, I'll slap an X300U on it and see if it'll fit in my Raven Concealment holster for a P30 withan X300U.

 

I look forward to shooting it. I have another one on order from a group buy on HK Pro. If I can get that one in and HD sights for both, I'll take them to CSAT at the end of September for a 2 day pistol course and see what happens.

 

Update: It does not lock all the way into my Raven Concealment P30 holster. It fits nicely in my Safariland 6004 for my H&K 45.

 

Second update: I and a couple guys at the range put about 100 rounds through it this morning. The trigger is as nice as has been advertised. The only Glocks I've shot with triggers like that had been worked on by someone who knew what they were doing.  Accuracy was very good-we were indoors, so we only shot it out to 15 yards. Manipulations were easy-I find myself hitting the magazine release with my middle finger on my strong hand and was able to drop the slide using the levers on either side without issue.  I really want to get the HD's on there and see what i can do with it then. So far, I'm very pleased with the pistol.

 

Third update: HD's are here. I'll get it to my smith tomorrow around lunch and pick it up after the gym.  This weekend, I'll probably put another few hundred rounds through it.

"Hold my beer and watch this"

I'm gonna run mine in October at Miami-Dade SRT school. 3000 rounds in 2.5 weeks? should really see if this bad boy can hold up..

"It is simple....the job, and the system hate you, and you only have you and your fellow officers.......and many of them are questionable." 

SOL,

 

Do you have enough trigger time behind a PPQ to compare the two?  I have a nice limited PPQ that I'm considering selling to replace with a VP9 (my gear, and the rarity of the gun mean I could swap for no money out of pocket or even come out ahead).  Definitely curious to hear about that comparison.

 

It's essentially the same gun, but I used to carry an HK and wouldn't mind going back. 

 

Cheers

Originally Posted by Romeo7:
Originally Posted by BrooklynBacon:
But as long as they give dirt cheap prices to police departments...they will stick around. More forward-thinking departments are going with the M&P line though. Miami Beach Police just got rid of their Sig P226's and went to M&P .40.

How cheap is dirt cheap? 

 

I was at my favorite local gunstore and asked about the VP9.  They looked it up on their wholesaler websites (2) and said they were going to get some in when they were available.  The GSG said it'd retail there for about $610 plus tax.  That's a very decent price if this thing lives up to the HK rep for quality.  It'll probably drop even lower after it's been out a while.

 

I strongly suspect that Glock and S&W will cut their prices aggressively on their products if the VP9 gains serious traction in the market place.

While rare, I occasionally reports pop up of Glock providing replacement guns to departments for the "cost of night sights" or in the $150-170 range?  How often this happens I don't know - and I'd suspect Glock is flipping the used guns to outlets, and coming out about even.

 

That's tough to argue with.  However $550-600 is a damn sight closer than $920-930 when someone is looking at the budget. 

Here is a copy of the first review off our Facebook page (hardwiredtacticalshooting):

 

"Well......after picking up our guns from Jackson Armory, our local HK dealer, today was the long awaited VP9 day at the range. All I can say is "WOW!" These things really are the new standard in a striker fired pistol. 
We started with a simple 30 round initiation on some 8" steel at ten yards. Painfully easy. We then jumped right in with the LAPD D Platoon "A " qualification-both Wayne and I shot 98%. I had one called flyer, or it would have been one of the best runs I have had on the course in years. Wayne shot a 5 shot group at ten yards into the NRA logo on our bull targets (photo below of the result). We then jumped in with a Vickers 300. The targets are also shown. This has always been a tough course for me due to all the single hand work. I was down 7, Wayne, only 3. 
We did some 50 yard work on the 8" steel that became boringly easy. Wayne was so bored with ringing the target that he started working one handed. That was not much of an issue, so he switched to support hand only at 50.......shown in the photo, he center whacked the target just after the picture was taken. 
We shot a lot, with a lot of different ammunition. There were no malfunctions of any kind. The only "issue" was losing the left side cocking support on my gun at round #28 (Federal 9mm HST). In a funny way, I was looking at the gun last night thinking that I would like that side removed and flat and the cocking support only on the right side. I just didn't expect it to happen on its own. The test of HK Customer Service......."we'll have a return tag out immediately". Yea, there is that "terrible HK customer service". I think people will find that the one area where HK has done stellar work is "fixing" the customer service side of the house. I have not had an issue with them in the last decade. 
On the positive side, these things flat shoot. Wayne and I have both been gone for the last month or more with other work. We were both very rusty, and I have not shot since our last class. To come in totally cold on a new platform, I could not be happier. The trigger is set up in a way that is almost a duplicate in feel for how I have my Glock triggers modified. I like them and it was easy to get used to. Not too light, not too heavy, and a good feel for a service trigger. Mine had a little but of a gritty feel in reset, but it shot better than a couple of the other VP9's that were out there with another shooter. When it goes back for the cocking support, I ll mention it. The only time I noticed was on the real slow reset when working at 50. "

 

Link for the pictures: 

https://www.facebook.com/pages...ting/289679681133490

"If I had a Grandpa, he would look like Delbert Belton"

Let those who love the LORD hate evil. The one who guards the lives of his godly ones will rescue them from the power of wicked people. Psalms 97:10 Trooper Troy Duncan-EOW 5-19-84 Deputy Erik Jon Telen-EOW 8-21-2001

Originally Posted by MH64:

Left side cocking support?

 

Wha??

It has these plastic pieces on each side of the rear part of the slide.

 

Anyways, Nyeti did you have any issues with the slide release? I always have to make sure my thumb is far over on my support hand when shooting Sigs because of the slide release.

Picked up my VP9 this morning. Only put 100 rounds thru it, but it ran like a champ. Still trying to figure out which one of the 27 grip configurations I want to go with. Right now as a southpaw; I'm running medium back strap, medium left panel, and large right panel. Loving this pistol right now. Think I'm going to get a set of Heinie straight 8's for sights, but I'm open to suggestions. 

For those who've bought these as LE duty guns, where's the best option for LE ordering?  Feel free to PM.

Anyone tried an ALS holster for the HK45 to see if that fits?

Blessed be the Lord, my rock

who trains my arms for battle,

who prepares my hands for war.

 

Psalm 144.1

Originally Posted by weaver1032:
For those who've bought these as LE duty guns, where's the best option for LE ordering?  Feel free to PM.

H&K's not doing LE pricing anymore, according to the folks on HK Pro (who know way more than is healthy about all things H&K).  They are also saying that there will be an upcoming program where a LE or whoever else qualifies for the program (.mil) can send in a receipt and credential copies in exchange for some unspecified reward.  My only source on this is HK Pro, so take it for what it's worth.

"Hold my beer and watch this"

I had the chance to put a few mags threw one of these yesterday. It is a very nice pistol that feels great in my hand. The example I shot had the medium blackstrap with the large sides. I shot it back to back with my M&P that has all the APEX trigger upgrades (including the short reset trigger) and that setup made the M&P with a medium blackstrap feel narrow. The trigger is good, very good, better than the stock M&P and Glock triggers by quite a bit (to me) but honestly the APEX upgraded M&P is nicer ...(lighter with a shorter reset). 

I had no problem hitting a full size steel torso at 50 yards with it, I didn't try and shoot groups but it seemed about as accurate as my M&P that has a Storm Lake barrel fitted from the rounds I put on paper.

The charging handle thingys didn't bother me at all but if they were not there I wouldn't miss them. The trigger itself feels wide and I liked it, kind of a lot. The slide release on the ejection side is fitted very well with no rattle like on my duty gun (P2000). The sights on the one I shot were the 3 dot non Tritium versions and aside from not likeing the dots they were fine, I believe the NS version uses the Truglow sights. I think one of the 10-8 sets for the P30 would be perfect for me but the factory ones are plenty useable.

I think that if I was issued a pistol with a std. button mag release I might not be as excited about this gun as I have been really happy with my fancied up M&P's, but, my duty gun has the H&K paddles and having a training gun with the same system is a big plus for me.

Overall if I was starting from scratch and looking for a sidearm this would be it (or an upgraded M&P?). It really just feels amazing in the hand and other than swapping out the sights there is nothing I would do to it. As for dumping a platform you are invested in and going to this...depends...for me, yes, the mag release has value to me but again if I wasn't issued an H&K allready this wouldn't matter. It holds 2 less rounds than a comperable M&P or Glock (although Taylor freelance makes a +5 extention for our BORTaC team that brings it up to 20) and if you put money into thoes platforms they can be made much better than they came out of the factory (this may be a no go for you if your agency will not allow modifications) but for me the feel of this thing is unparalleled.

I just sold my back up M&P but will keep my primary until I get a VP9 (or two) and shoot them for a while.
Hopefully this might help someone who is on the fence and hasn't got to handle one yet...

Joined: 13AUG2010        

Location: Southern Arizona 

So the question now becomes, can Apex improve the trigger for the VP9 to make it even better. I'm not sure I feel a need to upgrade my VP9, but if there was an upgrade from Apex I'd be damn tempted. All I really want is less initial take up, and no take up on reset. 

If APEX does their magic to the VP9...damn...

The only thing I don't understand about the VP9 is when I put an M&P magazine up next to the VP9 magazine the outside dimentions looked exactly the same...why is the capacity different? 15 rounds is fine and all (my duty mags are only 12) but it seems like the Germans could have engineered a couple more rounds in there..

Joined: 13AUG2010        

Location: Southern Arizona 

If you want more rounds, you get less spring.  HK mags tend to do very well left loaded for long periods, and they have no issues with changes in the frame when light mounted.  I would prefer a long term reliable magazine over a couple of rounds.  This is ALL give and take.  

 

APEX.....really, already?????  Most are finding the VP9 trigger to be one of the best ever put in a striker pistol, yet here we are.  First, take up is a good thing on a defensive pistol and especially on a L/E pistol.  Reset distance is a learned thing.  I am already dialed in to the VP9 in a very short time.  It is tactile and audible (for the kindergarten learning stage) and pretty easy to figure out.  It's an L/E service pistol with a near perfect L/E service pistol trigger.  Having a zero take up trigger is not a good thing on a service pistol.

 

Accuracy wise, we were zapping an 8" plate at 50 yards with little effort.  DetWD got to the point of doing it support hand only.  The things will shoot.  

"If I had a Grandpa, he would look like Delbert Belton"

Let those who love the LORD hate evil. The one who guards the lives of his godly ones will rescue them from the power of wicked people. Psalms 97:10 Trooper Troy Duncan-EOW 5-19-84 Deputy Erik Jon Telen-EOW 8-21-2001

Hopefully, HK will do a competition variant of the VP9 with a competition trigger.  For now, I think it is a very good street trigger that is workable at the target audience.  

"If I had a Grandpa, he would look like Delbert Belton"

Let those who love the LORD hate evil. The one who guards the lives of his godly ones will rescue them from the power of wicked people. Psalms 97:10 Trooper Troy Duncan-EOW 5-19-84 Deputy Erik Jon Telen-EOW 8-21-2001

Understood on the spring length, I didn't know that's why they did that. It makes sence now. Like I said my duty mags only hold 12 and I don't feel under supplied so 15 is a bonus for me...as for a duty trigger it is heads and shoulders above anything I've ever felt. The thing shoots...I'm getting one...or two.

Joined: 13AUG2010        

Location: Southern Arizona 

He posted a comparison of an Apex tricked out M&P to a stock VP9. I posted a "what if," that is all. I own a VP9, I like the trigger more than any other striker fired pistol I've shot, but that doesn't mean it can't be better.

 

I didn't say I wanted no take up I said I want a little less.  I also prefer to have reset be at the wall. I just prefer it that way I'm not bad mouthing the VP9. 

 

I shoot it very well with its current trigger, but I won't be using it for duty use I have an issued P220 for that. The VP9 will be a possible G19 replacement for EDC, a range and competition gun. 

 

Edit: I deleted my previous post because I couldn't edit it, so this one is now out of order in the thread. 

KCBRUIN....I was responding to your post that is no longer there.  Did I accidently delete it or did you?  If it was me........I apologize, as sometimes the moderator powers overwhelm my computer skills.  

"If I had a Grandpa, he would look like Delbert Belton"

Let those who love the LORD hate evil. The one who guards the lives of his godly ones will rescue them from the power of wicked people. Psalms 97:10 Trooper Troy Duncan-EOW 5-19-84 Deputy Erik Jon Telen-EOW 8-21-2001

Originally Posted by nyeti:

KCBRUIN....I was responding to your post that is no longer there.  Did I accidently delete it or did you?  If it was me........I apologize, as sometimes the moderator powers overwhelm my computer skills.  

No it was me I posted it, and immediately saw stuff I wanted to edit but couldn't. So I deleted that one and added some. 

 

I hope they release an expert or tactical model with a match trigger, but they never released one for the P30 so I won't get my hopes up.  

 

I'm happy as hell that I actually own a striker fired HK, and that it lives up to everything that this HK fanboy dreamed it would be. 

 

I agree  as a duty weapon it is perfect, except it would need to be a VP45 to even get a second look at my Agency to be an issued weapon. 

Glad I didn't do it on the post.

 

I get a little overly defensive on the trigger due to my participation on other boards that are more pure shooting oriented.  My personal experience on the L/E side gets me a little frustrated on these issues. 

Everyone wants a great trigger.  It helps on pure shooting.  It makes the gun easier to shoot.  The question becomes "how easy do we want L/E guns to shoot.......especially if there is an unknown or non-shoot in front of it"?  What I found in my shootings and among those I have de briefed is that there is very little or no tactile feel of the trigger weight and resistance during the event, but there is a definite feel for the trigger movement.  That is why I actually set my Glocks up with an "anti-skimmer" trigger with more take up than the factory.  I want to feel that trigger movement so I am really aware that I am pressing it and can control that movement.  It's why I like the LEM for a cop trigger.  Reset also needs to be done by movement.  We "learn it" through feel just like the press, but it will be by movement and not feel during a shooting.  The VP9 has a lot of feel to it, and enough movement on both ends to make me happy.  On the reset side, sure it could be shorter and that would be great, but the main thing is that it is consistent, and to me feels about like halfway from the wall to the break and has been easy for me to adjust to so far, and is getting better in dry practice.

I usually tell folks who want "lighter, better triggers" is if they also want that for the worst shooter at their agency?  That is the crux.  That lighter, better trigger would actually help your worst shooters the most, but also get them into the most problems as well.  We are finding that the VP9 is one of those guns that people shoot great out of the box and with very little experience on it (none of us have much time yet), so I would think in time we will really getting them dialed in.  That (to me) would be a better time to talk about any modifications or work.

Hope that makes sense.

"If I had a Grandpa, he would look like Delbert Belton"

Let those who love the LORD hate evil. The one who guards the lives of his godly ones will rescue them from the power of wicked people. Psalms 97:10 Trooper Troy Duncan-EOW 5-19-84 Deputy Erik Jon Telen-EOW 8-21-2001

Makes sense to me. I have 14 years experience as an LEO, with time on SWAT, and now as a K-9 handler, and Firearms instructor for the Academy. Luckily I have only pulled the trigger once in my career, and that time I was using a USP.45 DA/SA variant. Since you're familiar with HK's I think you'll understand what I mean when I refer to the hammer staging if you pull the trigger to a certain point and then release it. There's a tactile feel in the trigger pull when you hit the staging point. As I pulled the trigger I felt the hammer hit the staging point, and it felt like a gong went off from my trigger finger through my whole body. I'm not sure how to phrase it, but in a way it made me aware that I was pulling the trigger, because in that moment it was more of training and muscle memory taking over, and like you said there was no feel to that very heavy HK DA pull. At that exact moment Mr. Shithead threw his hands up surrendering, not knowing he was fractions of a second from having his chest cavity ventilated. I was told over and over that with the events that led up to that moment that it would've been a good shoot if I'd have finished the pull.  But because I had that DA pull I didn't have to find out so I'm a believer in some travel before break.  

Originally Posted by KCBRUIN:

Makes sense to me. I have 14 years experience as an LEO, with time on SWAT, and now as a K-9 handler, and Firearms instructor for the Academy. Luckily I have only pulled the trigger once in my career, and that time I was using a USP.45 DA/SA variant. Since you're familiar with HK's I think you'll understand what I mean when I refer to the hammer staging if you pull the trigger to a certain point and then release it. There's a tactile feel in the trigger pull when you hit the staging point. As I pulled the trigger I felt the hammer hit the staging point, and it felt like a gong went off from my trigger finger through my whole body. I'm not sure how to phrase it, but in a way it made me aware that I was pulling the trigger, because in that moment it was more of training and muscle memory taking over, and like you said there was no feel to that very heavy HK DA pull. At that exact moment Mr. Shithead threw his hands up surrendering, not knowing he was fractions of a second from having his chest cavity ventilated. I was told over and over that with the events that led up to that moment that it would've been a good shoot if I'd have finished the pull.  But because I had that DA pull I didn't have to find out so I'm a believer in some travel before break.  

I had a very similar situation with a full size USP 45.  During the press with my sights on the shitheads right ear I could actually see the hammer smoothly coming to the rear.  Right before the break, said shitheads face exploded into a fountain of blood and debris where my partners shot in his face had built up a bunch of pressure from a severed carotid.  It was very obvious that my shot was no longer going to be needed.  It too would have been justified if I finished, but it worked out with the crook being dead and no additional complications of an extra .45 in the ear. In that case I was very aware of the trigger movement by feel with visual confirmation of the hammer movement.  In that case the visual input was more memorable than the tactile input. It was an auto-pilot press on an action I had over a 100,000 rounds through.  It was different from the ones where I did actually shoot.  In those cases it was also an auto-pilot press, but there was even less tactile feel and just the sensation of smooth movement.  You never really feel the weight.  These are all good examples of continuing the evaluation process right up to the shot and why it is critical that L/E triggers need to have some good take up to them.  I am aware of at least one very questionable shooting where not having any take up in the trigger was probably a big factor in a bad shoot.  

Those who are shooters are generally more aware of this stuff.  The issue is that general issue guns need to have these characteristics.  Either way, too "good" of a trigger can bite even the best trained folks.  I learned over the years not to obsess over trigger minutia, as you won't really feel it.  Master a good workable trigger and make it auto-pilot so you can worry about being right instead of inconsequential millimeters of travel.

"If I had a Grandpa, he would look like Delbert Belton"

Let those who love the LORD hate evil. The one who guards the lives of his godly ones will rescue them from the power of wicked people. Psalms 97:10 Trooper Troy Duncan-EOW 5-19-84 Deputy Erik Jon Telen-EOW 8-21-2001

This topic has drifted to an interesting area, as it relates to triggers and LE guns.

 

I spent a great deal of last fall and winter trying to talk my self out of buying a Walther PPQ. Many people at that time were making the argument that the PPQ's trigger is TOO nice for a LE/Defensive gun. 

 

Those with time shooting the VP9 have all commented on the positive aspects of the trigger. But even so, I was wondering when someone would start talking about Apex making upgrades to the VP9.

 

My LE career started at the beginning of the semi auto phase. I was two recruit classes past being issued a revolver. We went from S&W 5906's to 5946 DAO's, to the M&P9. I have seen the effects of a gun that's easier to shoot for the masses who's only trigger time for the year is when they attend mandated firearms training as it relates to putting rounds on target under stress. I am sold on the striker fired system for this reason. But there is such a thing as too nice/light of a trigger. Some of the reworked M&P guns I've seen people compete with would fall into that category. 

 

My VP9 arrived at my FFL yesterday, and I managed to pick it up on the way into work. As my boss would frown upon test firing a new pistol within the inter-city neighborhoods that I supervise, I have only dry fired it so far. For a Virgin pistol, this trigger is nice. It may not be as light or as crisp as some guns being used in various matches or shooting games. But for a gun designed to be carried in the real world, it's really nice. I can't wait to see how the trigger feels when I smooth it out a bit by firing a could thousand rounds through it. 

 

Personally, I am stuck with carrying a M&P9 for a duty weapon. As we just transitioned to our second issue of the M&P9 last year, I doubt I'll see another issued gun before I retire. But I am at a point in my life where I am looking at life after retirement. For this, I see the VP9 being a strong contender for becoming my daily companion. 

 

I hope the VP9 becomes a series of guns for H&K. I'd really like to see a VP9sk come out to accompany the VP9. 

 

 

 

Joined: 4-23-04                                          Location: SW Ohio

Originally Posted by KCBRUIN:

We could probably take the posts with detail on trigger's for LE starting with nyeti's, and have a fairly interesting new topic if we merged them into their own new thread. 

Yes, so you can poke fun at the absolutely atrocious NYPD trigger systems for all their issue handguns..yes people..12 lbs..it SUCKS.  I'm glad to no longer have to deal with that...

"It is simple....the job, and the system hate you, and you only have you and your fellow officers.......and many of them are questionable." 

Beat Trash, I think you nailed it with this...

"For a Virgin pistol, this trigger is nice. It may not be as light or as crisp as some guns being used in various matches or shooting games. But for a gun designed to be carried in the real world, it's really nice. I can't wait to see how the trigger feels when I smooth it out a bit by firing a could thousand rounds through it. "

It seems like H&K designed this as a duty gun, a really damn good one. As for my comments that my fancied up M&P has a better trigger, it does, but that's looking at it as a gun for training/gameing. For a duty gun the VP9 seems absolutely ideal. I've taken the slack out of my P2000 trigger quite a few times and I'm glad it was there...having too much of a good thing (trigger) is a valid concern on a work gun and it seems like the VP9 nailed it. It strikes a great balance.

I'm sure there will be tweaks available down the road for it for the gamers to make it more "competitive" or thoes that just want a really high performance blaster. But other than sights to taste it's damn near perfect.

Joined: 13AUG2010        

Location: Southern Arizona 

I'll just drop this here:

http://pistol-training.com/archives/8549

"If I had a Grandpa, he would look like Delbert Belton"

Let those who love the LORD hate evil. The one who guards the lives of his godly ones will rescue them from the power of wicked people. Psalms 97:10 Trooper Troy Duncan-EOW 5-19-84 Deputy Erik Jon Telen-EOW 8-21-2001

 
Originally Posted by BrooklynBacon:
Originally Posted by KCBRUIN:

We could probably take the posts with detail on trigger's for LE starting with nyeti's, and have a fairly interesting new topic if we merged them into their own new thread. 

Yes, so you can poke fun at the absolutely atrocious NYPD trigger systems for all their issue handguns..yes people..12 lbs..it SUCKS.  I'm glad to no longer have to deal with that...

 

 
 
The DA pull on my issued 220 is 10.5lbs and I think it's absolutely horrible. I can't imagine 12lbs on every pull for a duty weapon. I hate NY. 
 
 
 
 
Originally Posted by nyeti:

Very good read, thanks for the link. 

Can anyone comment as to instances of failing to lock back on empty magazines and auto-forwarding of the slide during reloads? Those are two issues that I routinely experienced with the P30 LEM. I'm aware that those two situations could be due to my shooting technique but it generally doesn't happen when I'm shooting Glocks or M&Ps.

Originally Posted by shogun187:

Can anyone comment as to instances of failing to lock back on empty magazines and auto-forwarding of the slide during reloads? Those are two issues that I routinely experienced with the P30 LEM. I'm aware that those two situations could be due to my shooting technique but it generally doesn't happen when I'm shooting Glocks or M&Ps.

My well used beater P30 auto forwards pretty regularly.....its a plus in my book.  Many of my high round count guns have done it in the past including SIGs and USP's.  Again, I don't see the negative as long as they always pick up the top round in the magazine, which mine have always done.

The failure to lock the slide back is almost always a thumb placement issue due to the size of the slide release......especially if you are shooting it while carrying other platforms like a Glock or M&P.  I have a very specific grip with my HK's so that I don't have this issue.  With that said, I can shoot the VP 9 with a thumbs forward grip, so I will be trying that.

"If I had a Grandpa, he would look like Delbert Belton"

Let those who love the LORD hate evil. The one who guards the lives of his godly ones will rescue them from the power of wicked people. Psalms 97:10 Trooper Troy Duncan-EOW 5-19-84 Deputy Erik Jon Telen-EOW 8-21-2001

Nyeti, thanks for the input; I'm direct on my thumb placement being the likely culprit on the failure to lock back. The auto-foward only bothered me when I would carry/use two different platforms on/off duty. I didn't like the idea of getting used to the auto foward since the Glock I carry on duty requires a deliberate attempt to send the slide into battery.

Nyeti,

Not to quibble, but I can think of two different instances SOing a match where the shooter stood there with a dumb look on their face when their gun went click instead of bang because it always auto forwarded and always picked up the first round. In those two cases the dumb look was directed my way at which time I mentioned tap, rack, bang and they got going again. Two other times the shooters were on it. In each case I was told that has never happened, it always picks up a round. Personally, not a fan of it. I have also seen NDs during classes during specific precision drills where the person was running too light a trigger and took up to much slack anticipating the beep. I find a heavier trigger is more accurate for me (4-5lbs) because I can press through. Whereas to light a trigger with to little take up fires to easily as I get on it.

Co-Owner Hill People Gear

"If anything goes wrong it will be a fight to the end, if your training is good enough, survival is there; if not nature claims its foreit." - Dougal Haston

As for auto forwarding, I've had it happen on almost every semi auto I'v shot over the years. Some more so than others.  It happens a LOT with the M&P series, especially as the gun age through usage.

 

I personally don't rely on it doing the work for me during reloads. But then I do not consider it to be a malfunction. 

 

 

 

Joined: 4-23-04                                          Location: SW Ohio

Mine is in today.  HK RULES!!!  That is all.

-------------------------

IT'S A COLT.  THEY'RE LIKE THE HK OF GUNS.

HRH (Ret.) The Most Reverend Consig

Stupidity is not a skillset.

 

 

 

 

 Joined: 28 Nov 2004: 0037hrs        Location: The worst run state in the U.S

+1 on the failure to lock back the slide.  While not consistent, it happened relatively often on my P2000 (same large ambi slide levers as the P30 etc.).  Not a big deal as long as you're away that your gun may do it.  It's not an error with the gun so much as a design which increases the likelihood of thumbs kicking it out of place.

 

The VP9 actually looks a little better in this regard.  I'm one of those weird people who like the long ambi levers on the HK models, but the VP9 looks to have shrunk them a bit, which might very well reduce the issue.

 

I've had plenty of handguns auto-forward but never a gun that regularly did it. 

Originally Posted by BrooklynBacon:
How cheap are Glocks now? I know here in FL, LEO pricing for a Glock 17/19/22 for instance is like $350..so what are departments paying for that..especially in bulk? They're gonna have to cut their prices to stay competitive...because it takes just as much to make a Glock/S&W actually a war-ready gun, as it does for a HK out of the box ready...

I'd love to hear your explanation for this. Glock's need little to nothing out of the box, thus much of their appeal...

 

And LEO pricing is about $400...

Originally Posted by 8th:

Nyeti,

Not to quibble, but I can think of two different instances SOing a match where the shooter stood there with a dumb look on their face when their gun went click instead of bang because it always auto forwarded and always picked up the first round. In those two cases the dumb look was directed my way at which time I mentioned tap, rack, bang and they got going again. Two other times the shooters were on it. In each case I was told that has never happened, it always picks up a round. Personally, not a fan of it. I have also seen NDs during classes during specific precision drills where the person was running too light a trigger and took up to much slack anticipating the beep. I find a heavier trigger is more accurate for me (4-5lbs) because I can press through. Whereas to light a trigger with to little take up fires to easily as I get on it.

I won't comment on "match happenings" because a lot of competitive guys have a thumb staged on the slide release to increase reload speed time, and it doesn't take much to mess this up and get a click instead of a bang.  I have found on my pistols that auto-forward it only happens when I do a hard seated speed reload and its happening after the mag is seated.  At that point if the jarring from the mag seating is enough to bump of the slide stop, then the round will get picked up everytime reliably.  If it is auto-forwarding and not picking up a round, you have another issue that needs to be addressed that is either thumb placement on the slide release, or a mechanical issue where the slide stop is not engaged enough when the gun goes to slide lock and one or both of these issues need to be addressed.

"If I had a Grandpa, he would look like Delbert Belton"

Let those who love the LORD hate evil. The one who guards the lives of his godly ones will rescue them from the power of wicked people. Psalms 97:10 Trooper Troy Duncan-EOW 5-19-84 Deputy Erik Jon Telen-EOW 8-21-2001

How long will it be until we see these milled with RMRs I stalled (assuming they haven't yet)? 

I seem to recall there being difficulty with milling the P30 slide, yet I've seen some.  I've been running M&Ps for a while now, but if the VP9 is as good out of the box as an Apex modified M&P, my next purchase might be the HK.  Especially if HK can supply the civy market with spare parts and magazines.

"If you can't do something smart, do something right" -Jayne Cobb

 

Joined: 2010.                 Location: NOVA HELL

Shot one of the VP9 pistols yesterday. My daily carry is a M&P with the apex FST pkg and the RAM installed. It measures a little less than 6lbs on my gauges. I included the above for comparison only. I have a little time on the PPQ and the HK trigger compares favorably with the one I tried. It was not a side by side comparison unfortunately. The HK was easy to shoot, shot point of aim with several types of ammo. I was able to shoot it quickly easily. The only negative to me and it is subjective, it seems to have a bit more muzzle flip than the Walther and my M&P. it was not bad but noticeable. My training partner commented on it as well. I am a regular earth person so YMMV.

 

PS all the above were in 9mm.

Seen plenty of those failures too, but in these cases that wasn't the issue, but won't side track this thread more.

Co-Owner Hill People Gear

"If anything goes wrong it will be a fight to the end, if your training is good enough, survival is there; if not nature claims its foreit." - Dougal Haston

Originally Posted by Middlelength:
Originally Posted by BrooklynBacon:
How cheap are Glocks now? I know here in FL, LEO pricing for a Glock 17/19/22 for instance is like $350..so what are departments paying for that..especially in bulk? They're gonna have to cut their prices to stay competitive...because it takes just as much to make a Glock/S&W actually a war-ready gun, as it does for a HK out of the box ready...

I'd love to hear your explanation for this. Glock's need little to nothing out of the box, thus much of their appeal...

 

And LEO pricing is about $400...

There's a lot better triggers out there, for one.  And the first thing you have to do is replace those shit sights.  Why can't they just come out the box ready, like Sig does for instance?  Glocks have appeal because they're cheap, and police departments swear by them..thus good guys and bad guys alike think they're the shit.  I don't know, maybe I just had a bad introduction..when I changed from a Sig P226, I was forced to change to a Glock 22..I carried that gun for 6 years, and hated it the entire time..maybe if I shot the Glock 17 first, I would like them better?

"It is simple....the job, and the system hate you, and you only have you and your fellow officers.......and many of them are questionable." 

Originally Posted by BrooklynBacon:
Originally Posted by Middlelength:
Originally Posted by BrooklynBacon:
How cheap are Glocks now? I know here in FL, LEO pricing for a Glock 17/19/22 for instance is like $350..so what are departments paying for that..especially in bulk? They're gonna have to cut their prices to stay competitive...because it takes just as much to make a Glock/S&W actually a war-ready gun, as it does for a HK out of the box ready...

I'd love to hear your explanation for this. Glock's need little to nothing out of the box, thus much of their appeal...

 

And LEO pricing is about $400...

There's a lot better triggers out there, for one.  And the first thing you have to do is replace those shit sights.  Why can't they just come out the box ready, like Sig does for instance?  Glocks have appeal because they're cheap, and police departments swear by them..thus good guys and bad guys alike think they're the shit.  I don't know, maybe I just had a bad introduction..when I changed from a Sig P226, I was forced to change to a Glock 22..I carried that gun for 6 years, and hated it the entire time..maybe if I shot the Glock 17 first, I would like them better?

 

I started on the P226 in .40 and kinda liked it, despite the DA/SA. The ones I shot without that stupid trigger were really nice, in my opinion.

 

I was also "forced"(by way of new place of employment) to change to the Glock 22, and DO hate it. 

 

RE: those "Slide Wings" (??), I guess I'm missing something. Nyeti, if you already had one break off.... why didn't they just machine them into the slide? Or only include the one, like someone mentioned, on the off-body side? The user could switch it to the other side if they are a freaky lefty or something.

 

Kinda a cool idea I guess, but if pistols for 100 years haven't needed "extra" stuff to work the slide, not sure why they chose this pistol to try it out.

 

 

 

 

Joined:      14 January 2010                Location:  MAINE

I fully expect we'll see a rash of after-market slide wings...some in metal, some with different profiles, etc.  I don't doubt you'll see some big competition wings as well (this may be the goal straight from HK...to appeal to some competitors.  Good trigger with an ability to install quick and easy slide wings/hooks.

After playing with it for a couple of days, I finally found the time and took my new VP9 to the range today. It took a while for me to decide on the mixture of grip panels for my hand. I ended up with large all around.

 

My wife accompanied me today. My wife who's newer to shooting. She's been out about a dozen times so far. 

 

My wife ended up preferring to shoot a M&P9 full size over the VP9 or the Glock 19 gen4 that I brought along. When dry firing the VP9, she loved how the gun felt in her hands. Shooting it led her to the M&P9

 

I found the VP9 was extremely accurate, once I finally found the grip combo that I needed. I didn't shoot past about 15 yrds today, so I couldn't seriously check on the accuracy of the gun.

 

But after about 400 rds, my finger is sore as hell from the grove in the bottom of the trigger guard. 

 

I need to spend some more time with the VP9. But for now, call me a bit disappointed. It was 100% reliable and accurate enough. And had it been the only gun I brought along today I may have been more impressed. But what it really reminded me was just how soft shooting the M&P9 is. 

 

I really wanted to like this gun. I fully expected it to "knock my socks off" when at the range. I ended up with the feeling of, "Eh"...

 

Not ready to give up on the VP9 just yet though...

 

 

 

 

Joined: 4-23-04                                          Location: SW Ohio

Pleaseee!!! don't tell me that. I read your posts brother...you're pretty spot on. I have hig hopes for this gun!!

"It is simple....the job, and the system hate you, and you only have you and your fellow officers.......and many of them are questionable." 

As far as the charging supports.  I think it is a good idea that is based on who the gun is getting marketed to.  I am very sure that HK would like this thing to be the next "Fed gun" for acroos the board issue to DHS and others.  These places and most P.D.'s have a ton of both little folks and non-gun folks and they are a help.  

 

To clarify....my left side one did not "break off", it slid out of its track.  I believe it got a little out of the groove when the sights were being installed and it slid out.  I could have bumped the sight over and reinstalled it, but I will wait for a flush unit for the left side of the gun and do it in conjunction with a 10-8 rear sight.

 

The trigger groove.  When I first looked at the HK45's, it bothered me.  Now, I don't even notice it, and tend to shoot the HK45 better than anything.....including my 9's.  I never noticed it at all on the P30's.  I have a feeling that once you build time on the gun your brain will figure out where your finger needs to go on the trigger and it becomes a non issue.  Some folks get them filed smooth.  That was my original plan, but it turns out I have not needed to do it.  I seem to remember it was more of an issue when I was shooting the HK's in .45 and still shooting a Glock 9.  Since going to HK's across the board and moving away from the Glock platform its become a non-issue.

"If I had a Grandpa, he would look like Delbert Belton"

Let those who love the LORD hate evil. The one who guards the lives of his godly ones will rescue them from the power of wicked people. Psalms 97:10 Trooper Troy Duncan-EOW 5-19-84 Deputy Erik Jon Telen-EOW 8-21-2001

I have been lightly screwing around all day with my new lovely VP9.  I couldn't leave the house today so I didn't do much besides dry fire as I backed up Jack Bauer. (I'm watching the whole season of 24 today.  By my count I killed about 20 guys so far.  The pistol is accurate for sure.).

 

Anyhow, the HK trigger guard "trench" is often brought up but is actually a problem for few.  If someone didn't point it out, most wouldn't know.  I fell into this trap with my first HK45 when the first thing I did when I got it was ship it to David Bowie for his Vickers package.  He is damn awesome on HKs and he smoothed the shit out of it. (there are pics on LF somewhere).  But in the end, I really didn't need it although it was sweet.

 

It really is an owner by owner basis.  If someone told you not to buy the VP9 because it rubbed their finger, try it for yourself first before making up your mind.

 

Gotta go, Jack needs me...

-------------------------

IT'S A COLT.  THEY'RE LIKE THE HK OF GUNS.

HRH (Ret.) The Most Reverend Consig

Stupidity is not a skillset.

 

 

 

 

 Joined: 28 Nov 2004: 0037hrs        Location: The worst run state in the U.S

The VP9 trigger trough/trench/whatever you want to call it is less pronounced than that of the P30 or the HK45.

 

With most ammo it isn't noticeable at all when shooting the P30 and less so in the VP9.  Even with +P ammo it isn't noticeable in the VP9.  You have to be firing +P+ before you are aware of it with the VP9.

 

I think it is as Nyeti says that  "once you build time on the gun your brain will figure out where your finger needs to go on the trigger and it becomes a non issue."

I am hoping that Neyti is correct. Time will tell. I have to go qualify today at my agency with all things M&P, M&P9, M&P9c (Official Off-Duty) and Shield (BUG).  And of course the 870, my DD Patrol Rifle and the non-leathal. 

 

I plan on sliding out to the range at lunch and spend some more time with the VP9. I'll have Neyti's words in my head. I'm hoping that I found what I think is my sweet spot as far as grip combinations, that the trigger trough will become a non-issue for me.

 

As far as those charging supports on the slide, after the first magazine I totally forgot they existed until the first time I road the slide stop. When I had to chamber a round from a fresh magazine and felt the charging supports, I suddenly remembered them. They make enough of a difference that they are staying on my gun.

 

BrooklynBacon: Don't loose faith brother...

 

 

 

Joined: 4-23-04                                          Location: SW Ohio

If anyone who picks one up has a PPQ (or one they can borrow) this is what I'm most interested in hearing about.  I bought my PPQ(s) because they were basically a P30 striker-fired gun for far less than $900.

 

Now that the VP9 exists I'm terribly tempted, but it's hard to justify selling the handgun I shoot better than any in the past 10 years I've been shooting.  So if someone has some time I'd love to hear a comparison/review.

 

Cheers.

I managed to shoot my VP9 a bit at lunch today. I found that with the appropriate grip panels for my hand size, the trench in the trigger guard didn't bother my trigger finger any longer. And my accuracy went up to what I was hoping to achieve from this platform after hearing the feedback of others. 

 

Mine is not going anywhere!

 

 

 

Joined: 4-23-04                                          Location: SW Ohio

Got my VP9 earlier this week, shot it yesterday, (managed to scrounge up some ammo, I need to set the press up and run some 9mm off) I just cleaned it and to the range we went..I didn't have a lot of time, as I'm in the middle of a kitchen remodel, I had some failure to feeds, erratic ejection with some of my loads, this wasn't unexpected, the P-30 I had, did the exact same thing when new, So did my CZ P-07. I know it's a ammo problem. Anyway using the medium side panels, and backstrap I managed to rip the center out of a target I'd set up at a paltry 10yds, The trigger is what surprised me the most, I don't shoot to reset,(that is, I don't look for the reset, when letting the trigger out) but with the VP9, it was very easy to do, very easy to find. This made shooting rapidly easy. Muzzle flip was almost non-existent, (probably a lot to do with my loads  4.5gr W-231 than anything) But I remember my PPQ had much more muzzle flip when using the same load, I had 1 failure to lock the slide back, and again that was my fault, I need to keep my thumb off the slide release. So far, I'm impressed, I plan on loading up some ammo with a little stiffer charge, and going farther out, But as far as I'm concerned, the VP9 is a better pistol than the PPQ for me..HK hit this one out of the park...   

I might suggest you either get some factory ammunition, or load up some rounds that simulate the factory spec's. This way when shooting a virgin pistol,  you definitely know if the issue you are having is related to the gun or to the ammunition. 

 

 

 

Joined: 4-23-04                                          Location: SW Ohio

I'm sure it's the loads.. the P-30 I had did this and so did my P-07, both straightened themselves out after a couple hundred rounds. Both of these pistols are sprung for European/NATO ammo, and are stiff, a little break-in and the VP9 will be just fine. I fully intend to bump the charge up..    

My VP9's first 500 rounds consisted of WW 115 gr, American Eagle 115 gr, WW 147 gr TMJ and WW Ranger T series 147 gr JHP. With the exception of the Ranger (About 2 magazines of old duty ammo), the round count was about evenly spread through the three other loads. Neither of the 115 loadings are loaded up to NATO spec. 

 

My VP9 didn't require any break in period. The more I shoot this gun, the more impressed I am with it. 

 

 

 

Joined: 4-23-04                                          Location: SW Ohio

So would you carry it on duty? I'm debating on making the changeover, since I'm dumping my Glock. My brass finally got smart, and are letting us carry anything now pretty much.

"It is simple....the job, and the system hate you, and you only have you and your fellow officers.......and many of them are questionable." 

Originally Posted by Beat Trash:

I would carry a VP9 on duty, if I could find a Safariland holster for it.

This. As much of a winner as H&K appears to have with this thing, most agencies run Safariland holsters.  Until you can get a 6378 that will take a WML from one of the big manufacturers, these are going to be a hard sell as LE guns around here.

"Hold my beer and watch this"

So...when are they going to make a Glock 19 sized shooter?  I wished for one with the M&P series...didn't get it (unless you count the .45).

 

I fully believe it's a nice pistol, but the '19 is my EDC - not much chance I'm throwing thousands of dollars at the required VP9s and requisite gear if they don't make the size I use and depend on most often. 

________________________

Daggers Forward - Daggers In!                                 Shape the Fight!

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I shot 250 rounds through my VP9 yesterday, now up to 700 totals rounds. While I've owned HKs in the past I've been shooting Glocks exclusively (except for some time with a Shield) for several years. For me, the HK is more accurate and easier to shoot well. In fact, I just listed one of my G19s for sale on the board at my range and may also sell a G17 to fund another VP9. I'm using the large inserts all the way around as these deliver the best results although the medium back strap actually feels better during dry fire.

 

My only complaint is that the trigger guard trough beats up my trigger finger during live fire. I know LAV mentioned this issue with the P30 and recommends Bowie Tactical for fixing this problem but I don't want to be without my VP9 for months. Anyone have experience with another Professor of Polymer Permutation that could turn this around quickly? I'd do the work myself if I had a guide such as a YouTube video on how to remove and reinstall the trigger.

 

Also, anyone else have major difficulty installing an X300U? I tried both the U and P inserts before grinding down a spare P insert to fit and it is still extremely tight. Perhaps mine is a sample of one but I'm surprised the fitting between the gun and light isn't perfect as made.

 

BTW, below is a photo taken a few weeks ago of 5 rounds of PMC 115 grain at 25 yards slow fire on an FBI Q target. I was never able to accomplish this with my Glocks. The VP9 makes me look slightly talented.

 

Location: Somewhere between Manteo and Murphy

Originally Posted by BrooklynBacon:
The P30 holsters don't work with them?

My Safariland 6378 for a P30 without the light will not lock in my VP9. I'm betting it's the way the last rib of the rail protrudes out, but I haven't really messed with it. It does fit in my 6004 with a light for my H&K45. I'd really like a 6378, though.

"Hold my beer and watch this"

Yeah I like the 6378 too. I carry my G21 in that now. I don't like the hood. If g-code sold their hood system by itself, I'd get my kydex guy to make me a duty holster. I don't think safariland is gonna make us a holster yet. Needs to gain popularity.

"It is simple....the job, and the system hate you, and you only have you and your fellow officers.......and many of them are questionable." 

Originally Posted by jdavis6576:
Also, anyone else have major difficulty installing an X300U? I tried both the U and P inserts before grinding down a spare P insert to fit and it is still extremely tight. Perhaps mine is a sample of one but I'm surprised the fitting between the gun and light isn't perfect as made.


The P30 was also often a very tight fit. Generally, what I did was put the light on on the frame (out the slide for safety reasons), and then put the bezel of the light against a vertical surface, like a wall or edge of a table, and push the frame into the wall/table side. It would pop right in.

Plus ça change, plus c'est la même chose.

 

老僧三十年前未參禪時、見山是山、見水是水、及至後夾親見知識、有箇入處、見山不是山、見水不是水、而今得箇體歇處、依然見山秪是山、見水秪是水。


Joined: 2008-07-16

Just a little update. .I  took my VP9 and HK45ct out today, I increased the powder charge in the 9mm, and as I figured it would, that made all the difference in the world. Pistol ran without any problems. I tried a few informal 10-10-10 drills for the first time in awhile, I did ok, I got good times (between 6-6.50) but usually had one round out .It seems like this a easy pistol to shoot fast. I'll echo what was said earlier, The more I shoot this pistol, the more I like it.  

Picked up my VP9 a couple of days ago.  Mine had tritium sights and came with three magazines.  I plan to shoot it tomorrow or Saturday.  The trigger is very nice.  I would put it about even with a PPQ out of the box.

If you like leather holsters you might check out the Ritchie brothers at http://www.ritchieholsters.com for their Alessi inspired designs.  They have a VP9 in the safe to make holsters with.  They worked with Lou for years and their quality shows it.

Their Lightning model is my favorite CCW rig.  I am using one for my VP9 right now that was made for a P30L.  It fits very well.

I will add some photos and some range feedback shortly.

Tony
Originally Posted by Default.mp3:
Originally Posted by jdavis6576:
Also, anyone else have major difficulty installing an X300U? I tried both the U and P inserts before grinding down a spare P insert to fit and it is still extremely tight. Perhaps mine is a sample of one but I'm surprised the fitting between the gun and light isn't perfect as made.


The P30 was also often a very tight fit. Generally, what I did was put the light on on the frame (out the slide for safety reasons), and then put the bezel of the light against a vertical surface, like a wall or edge of a table, and push the frame into the wall/table side. It would pop right in.

A gentle push on a flat surface works for me, the X300U snaps on the VP9 and then can be removed without drama.

Picked up mine the day I flew back in from vacation. Phenomenal handgun. Trigger is really smooth and the small backstraps are perfect for me.

 

Groupings were on par with the SIG 226/228, the platform I'm most familiar with. 

 

I'm having trouble installing the X300 on this guy. I don't think they're friends...

One thing I learned about this gun and the P30 is that the backstrap that may feel the most comfortable while holding the gun may not feel the best or work the best while shooting it.

 

For example with the P30LS, I encountered a few instances where the slide didn’t lock back on the last shot.  This occurred when employing a thumbs forward Mod Isosoles grip where my thumb accidentally touched the slide release during recoil which kept the pistol from locking open on the last shot.  To address this with the P30LS, I went from the medium backstrap to large one.  This kept my thumbs away from the slide release unless I deliberately activated it. 

 

The VP9 has different slide releases than the P30.  From the beginning I ran the VP9 with the medium side panels and large backstrap and encountered no issues where the slide failed to lock back in over 2000 rounds fired.

There's a lot of truth in what ED L says about the backstrap/side panels.. I'm using the same set up as ED, and this works well for me. I had started with medium panels all the way around but, had trouble with it shooting to the left,, going with the large side panels and medium backstrap, pretty much stopped that. Last week, I ran my VP9 at my clubs monthly combat pistol shoot. It's a small event, we're trying to get more people interested, but usually we have about 10-12 people show up. I managed to come in 4th, After everyone shoots the courses, if, anyone wants to, you can shoot it again, I did so, but this time with my .45ct, I had converted it to LEM, and after about a year of trying I gave up on it, and converted it back to DA/SA, and spent about 2weeks dry firing it and getting used to the trigger.. I found, quite surprisingly, I could run the 45ct almost as well as the VP9, All in all, it was a good day.. The only thing the VP9 needs is better sights. I'm still undecided what to get, the latest offering coming from Heinie looks very promising.  

Bumping this looking for night sight suggestions for this pistol.  I'd like 10-8's but they're out of stock and I'm not sold on the Trijicon HD's.  What are you guys running?

------------------------

"The only appropriate way to portray radical muslims in a more positive light is to paint them festive colors before setting them on fire." - cross

"It is about basics.
The basics of gunfuckingfighting." - Pat Rogers

"We are all in this together. If not, we are fucked." - Pat Rogers

Joined: March 2006    Location: west Texas

I finger banged one at a LGS.  I almost bought it.  I'm a little leery of the long, thin external metal bar on the right side. The trigger was good.  Being used to the Glock, the grip felt funny to me.  I might go in today and see if it's still there.  I've never owned an HK before. 

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It's easy to make assumptions about puppies strapped to missiles, but good science requires research.

 

Joined: 12-2005          Location: Central OK

Well, I picked one up today out of curiosity.  I like it overall.  I imagine the creepy trigger will smooth out with use, and be better than a factory Glock over time.  The controls are very well thought out.  It's comfortable, accurate, and very soft-shooting.  I thought it would be more "flippy" because of the apparently-higher bore axis.  When I put the new gun next to the G17R I had in the desk drawer, the bore axis isn't appreciably higher.  Where the beaver-tail hits the hand is lower than the glock, but where the web of your hand sits is in about exactly the same place.  So, during shooting, there was very little muzzle flip.  

 

The physical size is almost identical to the G17.  I attached a few pics of the two side by side.  I shot a few boxes of Fed 115gr FMJ through it.  I could put all the shots in one hole at 7 yards, and shooting faster was easy.  I like the sights, except one minor detail - I don't think they'd be worth a shit trying to rack the slide on a shield or holster running the gun one-handed.  The ramped rear has no edge on it.

 

The pics.

 

 

 

 

Big questions on this are the long-run durability, availability of holsters and mags, and replacement sights.  Overall I'm pleased as punch so far.  It exceeded my expectations. 

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It's easy to make assumptions about puppies strapped to missiles, but good science requires research.

 

Joined: 12-2005          Location: Central OK

Yesterday I had some range time to myself before a group came out.  I brought a case of 9mm, the VP-9, and a G-17.  I didn't make it through the case - maybe fired 450 rounds between the two before some people actually showed up early (that never happens).

 

I shot both from 1 yard back to about 60 yards.  I went with the med back with large sides.  I found it relatively comfortable.  I was able to shoot 100s with both first try, and found that each does some things better than the other.  Oddly, on both sides of a barricade support position, I liked the HK a little better, even though I've shot a Glock for more than a decade.  Support-hand only, I thought the Glock was easier to control shooting at a quick pace.  

 

The triggers are similar, but slightly different.  The difference was not vast.  Once you hit the 'wall' after taking up the slack, the Hk is more crisp, but has this little creepy point that I find very noticeable - but it is more crisp than the glock.  The glock trigger is widely known - and once you take up the slack, is more mushy.  I'm not convinced that's a bad thing.  You just press through the mush, and it fires when it wants to.  It's not a shock, or in a different place, but it seems less likely to make you say "it's going to go off, NOW."  

 

The groove in the bottom of the trigger guard didn't both me, but the paddle mag release on the right side was noticeable to my middle finger.  After a few tries with the mag release, I found it was OK for me, but I had to change my grip to allow it to move and get a good purchase on it.  I got both guns good and warm shooting plates at 15-60 yards.  I didn't have a proper holster for the HK, and frankly think the Safariland ALS needs to be pushed out.  But just coming up from a low ready position, I thought the HK pointed a little better (again, very used to the Glock), and I thought the sights on the HK were easier for my old eyes to pick up.

 

I tried to limp wrist it to see if I could get it to choke, but no dice.  I didn't think to bring a light to put on it, even though I have several literally just lying around.  I have noticed Glocks with lights and awkward shooting positions (like shooting around a shield especially) tends to be less reliable.  I am curious if this will do better.  I did note that my big fat-guy thumbs kept the slide from locking open most of the time.  For my hands, the slide lock is just in the wrong place.

 

Until more mainstream holsters show up, I don't think this thing is going to fly off of shelves and into cops' holsters.  I think it's a good, solid pistol that I like a lot.  But I can but a Glock for about $400 compared to over $600 for the HK.  Add to that mags are double the price.  That's a big price difference, and I don't get 50% more killing power.  So were I a new copling, I'm not sure I'd go for this one.  But for an agency with bigger budgets, this might be good if duty gear was available for it.  I think it would fit small female hands better, and being totally ambidextrous is a nice touch.  

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It's easy to make assumptions about puppies strapped to missiles, but good science requires research.

 

Joined: 12-2005          Location: Central OK

Originally Posted by SPDSNYPR:

Until more mainstream holsters show up, I don't think this thing is going to fly off of shelves and into cops' holsters.  I think it's a good, solid pistol that I like a lot.  But I can but a Glock for about $400 compared to over $600 for the HK.  Add to that mags are double the price.  That's a big price difference, and I don't get 50% more killing power.  So were I a new copling, I'm not sure I'd go for this one.  But for an agency with bigger budgets, this might be good if duty gear was available for it.  I think it would fit small female hands better, and being totally ambidextrous is a nice touch.  

 

Truth.

 

If you have a new pistol to market, you had better get Safariland on board first. With 6280, ALS, and GLS. Even if you have to pay for the molds yourself... And getting Rings on board so the cottage holster makers can start pressing leather and kydex.

Reports are that Safariland just released an ALS model for the P30L with X300U that fits the VP9.  It's not on their will-fit list yet but the info comes from a reputable source.  

 

Model is reported to be 1176575 6395.  Just FYI.

 

 

_________________________________________________


"I want to see the wild country again before I die, and the mountains." 
Tolkien via BB.

Originally Posted by taadski:

Reports are that Safariland just released an ALS model for the P30L with X300U that fits the VP9.  It's not on their will-fit list yet but the info comes from a reputable source.  

 

Model is reported to be 1176575 6395.  Just FYI.

 

 

Thanks. Anyone know a retailer that will let you order by model number?

"Hold my beer and watch this"

Originally Posted by K.O.A.M.:
Originally Posted by taadski:

Reports are that Safariland just released an ALS model for the P30L with X300U that fits the VP9.  It's not on their will-fit list yet but the info comes from a reputable source.  

 

Model is reported to be 1176575 6395.  Just FYI.

 

 

Thanks. Anyone know a retailer that will let you order by model number?

 

The one noted here was ordered direct from Safariland.

_________________________________________________


"I want to see the wild country again before I die, and the mountains." 
Tolkien via BB.

Originally Posted by Longeye:

       
Originally Posted by SPDSNYPR:

Until more mainstream holsters show up, I don't think this thing is going to fly off of shelves and into cops' holsters.  I think it's a good, solid pistol that I like a lot.  But I can but a Glock for about $400 compared to over $600 for the HK.  Add to that mags are double the price.  That's a big price difference, and I don't get 50% more killing power.  So were I a new copling, I'm not sure I'd go for this one.  But for an agency with bigger budgets, this might be good if duty gear was available for it.  I think it would fit small female hands better, and being totally ambidextrous is a nice touch.  

 

Truth.

 

If you have a new pistol to market, you had better get Safariland on board first. With 6280, ALS, and GLS. Even if you have to pay for the molds yourself... And getting Rings on board so the cottage holster makers can start pressing leather and kydex.


       


I am fairly familiar with dealing with Safariland since the mid 80's and spent a good amount if time inside the castle.  This isn't the gun companies fault, you are banking in Safariland reading tea leaves as to what they want to make and when and they have a bunch of typical corporate issues with making decisions in any kind of timely manner.

"If I had a Grandpa, he would look like Delbert Belton"

Let those who love the LORD hate evil. The one who guards the lives of his godly ones will rescue them from the power of wicked people. Psalms 97:10 Trooper Troy Duncan-EOW 5-19-84 Deputy Erik Jon Telen-EOW 8-21-2001

Originally Posted by GlockWRX:

I picked up a VP9 several weeks ago.  Loving it so far.  I'm a long time Glock guy, but this is the first gun that's started to really pull me away.   

 

I wrote up a review with some pics on my website.... 

http://www.blackfinmp.com/blog...4/9/15/hk-vp9-review

That first pic is fucking comic genius. 

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

It's easy to make assumptions about puppies strapped to missiles, but good science requires research.

 

Joined: 12-2005          Location: Central OK

Originally Posted by Smoke Rhino:

Strohman Enterprises is great to deal with regarding Safariland.  My P30L ALS just shipped.  Joe was offering great deals on Aimpoint T1s on this forum for quite some time.

If Joe is selling it, then that is the easy choice of who to buy from.  He does a STELLAR job.

"If I had a Grandpa, he would look like Delbert Belton"

Let those who love the LORD hate evil. The one who guards the lives of his godly ones will rescue them from the power of wicked people. Psalms 97:10 Trooper Troy Duncan-EOW 5-19-84 Deputy Erik Jon Telen-EOW 8-21-2001

I got one of the first VP9s in Austin out of dumb luck, what the hell do I do with these P30s in my safe now?  It's a great pistol, and Bladetech has a duty holster.  I became a fan of Bladetech duty holsters when the P30 came out, and the WRS system is really solid in my opinion. 

Originally Posted by EastTXRedneck:

Played with one yesterday at a gunshow. I liked the feel of the gun but did not like the trigger reset. Felt clunky to me. Still considering buying it though. Do they make aftermarket triggers for it?

I believe Grayguns may be working on something.  They do smooth up in use.  In a Tom Givens Instructor school in Dallas this weekend, a record four perfect scores were shot in the final testing.  Two of those were with VP9's.  This, in the words of one of my favorite people, is "A clue" as to how bad you need an after market trigger to do good work.  Both VP9's were dead stock including standard sights.  They also performed perfect mechanically.  I found something interesting on mine as far as a "safety" thing.  With a slightly out of spec round of UMC bargain 9mm, it will not fire even slightly out of battery.  I know my Glocks will.  Otherwise, they ran like sewing machines and offered outstanding accuracy even with low end training ammunition.

 

Personally, if you want a polymer pistol to put a competition type trigger in, I would highly recommend getting a Glock instead.  For an out of the box pure service gun with a serrvice trigger, the HK will give match type accuracy if the shooter does the work.

"If I had a Grandpa, he would look like Delbert Belton"

Let those who love the LORD hate evil. The one who guards the lives of his godly ones will rescue them from the power of wicked people. Psalms 97:10 Trooper Troy Duncan-EOW 5-19-84 Deputy Erik Jon Telen-EOW 8-21-2001

Not trying to be THAT GUY that has to come and disagree.  I am absolutely not that guy. But I did want to drop my comment on this pistol.

 

I had one to play with for a month this past summer and put 500-600 rounds through it. I really, really wanted to love this pistol as I don't have a HK and wanted an excuse to buy it.  I sweat a lot and it was the South in August, I couldn't hang onto the thing.  I tried the various grip sizes, I tried holding it like I was trying to strangle it and it still jumped around in my hands.  That coupled with the higher (than Glock) bore line seriously cut into my times.  The trigger is good but it isn't the "1911 like" trigger that some folks are gushing over IMO.  It's still a striker-fired type trigger, just crisper.

 

In short, I just couldn't bring myself to plop down the cash to buy one.  I am certain someone will come out with some aftermarket aggressive grip panels and the above posts seem to indicate their is interest in improving the trigger further but I am just stunned that HK didn't address this at the outset.  My $0.02...

 

Not that Nyeti needs confirmation on anything he says but I will echo his sentiment regarding accuracy.  The pistol is a tack driver and I did dig the stock sights.

I continue to be amazed, but not surprised.

ME

Originally Posted by nyeti:
  I found something interesting on mine as far as a "safety" thing.  With a slightly out of spec round of UMC bargain 9mm, it will not fire even slightly out of battery.  I know my Glocks will.  Otherwise, they ran like sewing machines and offered outstanding accuracy even with low end training ammunition.

 


I also found this interesting. It was the first thing my coworkers that carry glock noticed. Pushing the VP9 slide nearly 1/16" out of battery will prevent the trigger from engaging the stiker. It feels to be half the distance the glock allows you to play with.

JB,

 

Valid concern.  I'll likely be picking up a VP9 to replace my PPQ.  The PPQ was a similar thing for me.  While I could hold it okay, my performance with the gun went up tremendously with a bit of the old tried and true bicycle inner-tube around the grip.  I won't be buying the VP9 to conceal carry, so I'm planning on using the same here (hell I still have plenty o' tire left).

 

I don't think I've ever been fully pleased with the grip purchase on a polymer framed handgun.  Judging by the serious similarities I suspected this would be the case with the VP9.  Thanks for bringing it up.

 

PS: I know HK's are  a pain with RMR installs --- I assume this won't be any different.  Has anyone heard of Doug or Mark playing with an RMR install on a VP9?

ElbowsNC:

Why not just have the grip on your PPQ stippled ?
Based on my brief time with both pistols, the PPQ has a better trigger (lighter/smoother pull and a vastly superior reset) and is every bit as accurate as the VP9.  On top of that PPQ holsters are more available right now, and assuming you have the "m1" model, then magazines are cheaper and easier to come by as well.

If you were trying to decide between the two I'd tell you that the PPQ is "subjectively" a superior handgun for $100-to- $200 less depending on where you purchase from

 

But seeing as you already own the PPQ, it seems rather odd to me that you'd want to sink a lot of money into a new platform (cost of firearm + holsters, magazines, and perhaps at some point down the road... grip stippling & perhaps a trigger job).

 

I'd strongly suggest getting some range time with the VP9 before making the switch, otherwise you may end up regretting your decision.  If you're unhappy with your current handgun, make sure that model you're going to switch to is right for you... you don't want to jump from one disappointment to another.

As an additional data point on the PPQ vs VP9 topic, I purchased a PPQ M2 9mm last summer and have put just over 1300 rounds of 124 gr FMJ and +P HST through her. I immediately shot better with it than any other handgun I had previously owned, but the grip has never felt quite right (I need to adjust after 4-5 rounds) and I have had intermittent failures to lock back on the last round due to unintentionally riding the slide release. The trigger break and reset feel excellent to me and I can't argue with the accuracy and speed they have helped me realize, but the light pull weight has caused me to break a couple of shots before intended--annoying when running range drills but pretty uncool to contemplate happening in the real world. I stuck with it because I got faster, better hits with it than anything else I've tried and because nothing is ever going to be perfect.

 

I picked up a VP9 at my LGS this past weekend and ran 200 rounds of 124 gr FMJ through her. Based on a little dry firing I set up with the large grip panels and backstrap, which turned out to be a mistake once I got a few mags through on live fire but like an idiot I left the small and medium pieces at home so I couldn't adjust on the fly. After 2 mags through the PPQ to establish a baseline I switched to the VP9. Accuracy was good but not great, which had me disappointed until I ran another mag through the PPQ and did even worse than I was doing with the VP9 so I figured that meant I was tired and I headed home.

 

My impression after that first range trip is that the ergos of the VP9 are clearly better (especially now that I've found a grip panel combo I like), I can manipulate the weapon faster and more confidently with no riding the slide release, accuracy is probably equal to the PPQ, and in spite of the trigger break and reset not being as much to my liking as the PPQ's it's still pretty darn good and overall better for the real world. More rounds down range are certainly needed but at this point my opinion is that the VP9 is the better choice for me. The VP9 is not magic, it's not a revelation, it's just a tool. Now I need to learn the best way to use it.

 

YMMV, no purchase necessary, void where prohibited by state and local laws...

You hit the nail on the head there.  I've had two PPQ's.  My remaining one is a First Edition model with the Gen1 paddle stuff.  I actually purchased it because a striker fired HK didn't exist.  I'm quite sure I could make the swap with zero money out of pocket (sell of my spare mags holster etc.).

 

My only two concerns with the PPQ are how incredibly light the trigger is and an overall concern with the reports I've seen from people regarding Walther USA (the new US factory for Walther firearms).  A third minor issue is that it's not RMR friendly.  If the VP9 was more friendly to RMR install I'd be more prone to consider it.

 

Regarding stippling, I find the inner tube to work fine without being permanent.  I've gone back and forth for weeks whether or not I want to go through with the VP9.  The more duty/street friendly trigger is something I'm keen to try out.  I'm sure I'll continue to go back and forth a while longer before pursuing the swap.

 

 

After going to the range yesterday, putting about 200 rounds downrange..I started to have the problem of the slide not locking back to the rear, because of my hand placement. What's the remedy for that again? I didn't have it last time I took her out..but I guess I had a more hands forward position this time around.

"It is simple....the job, and the system hate you, and you only have you and your fellow officers.......and many of them are questionable." 

Originally Posted by BrooklynBacon:
After going to the range yesterday, putting about 200 rounds downrange..I started to have the problem of the slide not locking back to the rear, because of my hand placement. What's the remedy for that again? I didn't have it last time I took her out..but I guess I had a more hands forward position this time around.

I had the same issue pop up during a recent class.  I put my strong side thumb slightly outward onto my support side thumb or hand rather than directly against the slide.  Only moved my thumb a fraction of an inch. 

I've run about 300 rounds through mine so far.  Moved from the small backstrap to the medium after the first range session.  Getting some weird pains in my wrist after shooting, but that just may be my 40 years catching up to me.  Pleasantly surprised so far, but will have a better assessment after 1-2k rounds. 

 

I've used two holsters with mine to date.  An Armordillo Concealment X-Fer and a Kaluban Cloak (remember that guy?) holster made for my full-size HK45/TLR-1.  I've run it appendix carry with the X-FER.  That holster works with any gun that has a TLR-1 mounted.  Only used during range sessions while standing though.  The X-FER, despite its flexibility, is a poor AIWB holster for me because the kydex digs right into the groin.  That said, drills running the gun from AIWB with that holster are on par with what I see running my M&Ps and Glocks.  Surprisingly, the gun fits in my HK45 w/light Kaluban Cloak holster.  Not a perfect form fit mind you, but it goes in smoothly and draws the same.  Trigger guard I would say is about 95% covered.  The light locks the gun in place.  For mags, my Glock 17 Raven holsters are working just fine, though again, the fit isn't form perfect.

---------- I pray that my son, when he is 60, and your son, when he is 60...will live in a world from which the great ugliness that has scarred our century has passed. Enjoying their freedoms, they will be grateful that, at the threatened nightfall, the blood of their fathers ran strong. ----------

I picked up my new VP9 yesterday. I only have 50 rounds thru it so far. If it continues to shoot as well as it did, one of my 19s will go to the gun safe. After a few hundred more rounds I will be calling Raven up for another Phantom holster. The next range day I will be trying the smaller grip pieces.  With 27 possibilities that may take a while to pick a best combo for my hands.  

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