What happened to them? For the life of me I can't seem to figure out when helmet covers began to suck and painted helmets became the norm...

I'm in a unit where painted helmets are approved, but will always use a cover (especially MC or another working pattern). Covers tend to soften edges and reduce any glare, while painted helmets (while looking cool) seem to do neither. And yet every outfit I meet who can get away with it, for some reason, always seems to go with the lesser choice. I know CDI factor is important, but I almost refuse to believe that such a shallow reason is so rampant. Almost.

I had a Batt Boy tell me at a school last summer that his unit was having great luck at night in Afghan with the dark grey paint scheme he was using. From 15 feet away, it looked like a solid black dot, and frankly had not one ounce of camouflage capability. But damn did it look badass., very "Punisher-esque". I also wanted to ask him if Afghan night was so different than Iraqi night, or even Georgia night, that it warranted it's own paint scheme, but I bit my tongue.

So school me. Am I missing something here?

An' it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' anything you please; 
An 'Tommy ain't a bloomin' fool - you bet that Tommy sees!       -Kipling

Original Post
I think the pendulum is swinging back towards helmet covers.

Funny you should mention the Batt Boy as Ranger Battalion has switched back to helmet covers, they are using multicam ones made by Crye I believe. Without going into too much detail, I was told the switch was made primarily because of the helmets appearance under NVGs.

Ops-Core and Crye, who probably make the best helmets today, both carry helmet covers albeit ones that have been redesigned. Something to think about.
The why: helmet covers suck. Plain and simple. They fit like crap, slide around, make your head look twice as big. And you can't hang all that cool velcro with a cover. BUT, they do all those things that were originally mentioned. Soften the edges is a very true statement. Soften the sound too against vehicles, structures etc. I've yet to see one on a Ops-core though. I too have heard they exist. Some cohorts of mine would be interested in their covers.
Maybe go with a split-the-difference approach?

I've always had the helmet cover as nothing else was allowed, but if you've already got velcro stuck all over a helmet, something along the lines of a cross between a ghillie headnet and the Israeli "chef hat" approach, velcro 2-3 places on the helmet and slap on a cover that breaks up the helmet shape and color, but is easily removable in a hurry and allows use of other accessories (NODs, lights, etc) in their own locations without requiring all the pain-in-the-ass stuff adding and removing it all and cover would imply?

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So low speed, i'm in Park.

"I could stand to hear a little more.." Jayne

Training is brief. Death is forever. PAY ATTENTION.

Joined: 6/14/03 1:02 PM

I too have recently had this thought. Bvt's reply is the best I have seen in response. I have seen the Crye Covers, but dont know how popular they are in country though. I've not seen any in the AOs I've been in personally.

The tan thing, your exactly right. Guys dont have a reason for it, just that some SF guy was wearing it (nevermind thats what they are issued). I think MC would be ideal in 9/10 circumstances and MARPATs certainly got fewer disadvantages than ACU pattern does. The only reason I went Tan on my gear is because its commonly accepted in my unit and MC is not issued out or accepted in most circles.

Shoot, Move, and Communicate!

I've played with the Crye covers (they rock), and although I wasn't aware of Ops-Core making any, I am unsurprised. I'm damn glad to hear the Regiment is going in the right direction.

The cover on my ACH is tight as a drum, so much so that the loop side Velcro I have Shoo-Goo'd to it holds perfectly well, as do the IR strobes and IR patches that reside on it. When I used to wear MARPAT on a regular basis, my helmet cover, while not bedecked in such a fashion, could easily have worked just as well.

So whats the lesson here? Should a guy reading this thread take a second look at his high speed paint job and reconsider? Or do we now fight in such a manner that this kind of topic is almost moot?

An' it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' anything you please; 
An 'Tommy ain't a bloomin' fool - you bet that Tommy sees!       -Kipling

Damn, I just replied on the AirFrame thread about this...my bad Mods.

I know from my experience that painted helmets arent about the CDI factor, its about utility. I use my helmet as another place to store shit i.e. strobe, SWD goggles, NVDs and batteries. Throw a helmet cover on there and the utility factor is gone. Well i guess you could still use it but it would cost $50 at the alterations shop to get all the velcro sewn on. With a $5 ACU velcro repair kit and some shoe goo your helmet can hold all the crap that you need to stick to it.

Being an AF dude supporting the Army I have to paint my helmet ACU pattern to not get sniped. Dont worry about all the antennas, thats besides the point. I have an Ops-Core and they dont make covers for those until later this year. So I am stuck painting the damn thing before every deployment. But as soon as the cover for the FAST comes on the market it is mine. Mainly because being different means being targeted and everyone is right, no matter what color you paint it, the helmet will still shine.

With that being said if you have a regular MICH, best cover I have seen is the S.O.D helmet cover. It already comes sewn with a back pocket for counter-weight/battery pack, velcro on top for strobes and velcro on the side for SWD goggles. Plus they have tie downs for NVDs, if it fit on the FAST i would be all over it. A little pricey at 50 euro but you wont look different.S.O.D helmet cover

Anyone with a Crye AirFrame tried to fit that cover on the FAST? I know they are different helmets but the Crye cover is one peice. I dont want to spend $45 on an experiment...im cheap.

Fanny

"Death on Call"

That SOD cover looks decent, but probably won't work with the ARC. The Crye mesh helmet cover is an interesting concept, one that should be explored more. Instead of installing the helmet cover and installing all the accessories over the top of it (I can never get the cover to look just right with the NODs mount, its always scrunched), why not install all accessories on the helmet, cut the cover to fit around the accessories, and then fasten it with velcro? I might try this with the ACU cover.

And why do I buy coyote gear instead of ACU or MC? The Army can't make its mind up about patterns, and I'm not buying 2 of the same rig just so I can make sure it matches. Isn't color-coordination an airsoft trait?

All the way

RIP 1SG Blue Rowe

quote:
The why: helmet covers suck. Plain and simple. They fit like crap, slide around, make your head look twice as big. And you can't hang all that cool velcro with a cover.


I can't see any reason the velcro can't be sewn onto the helmet cover in the same way it was glued onto the helmet. And the accessories that attach using screws could be used just by punching/cutting a hole in the cover or by cutting away that portion of the cover.

quote:
I can never get the cover to look just right with the NODs mount, its always scrunched

Perfect. Why do you want your camo cover to look "right" or "good". It should look like shit so that it can work as camo in the field.

I do think that we could stand to issue a solid color cover so guys don't have to change out all their shit when they change uniforms. That's my one argument against the helmet cover.

I've been playing with adhesive cloth tape placed between the velcro patches and it seems to be doing the trick for taking the shine off.

 

Know what you know; Know what you don't know. -Paul Petzoldt

I don't think you would want a helmet cover in only one color.

The head and shoulders are the most easily recognized feature on a human. This "picture" is deeply ingrained in our minds for various reasons. The profile of the head needs to be broken up by using a disruptive pattern.

Old Justice
This is a good topic. Our detachment just painted and velcroed our helmets but a couple of us had velcro sewn onto our covers. Last deployment we painted our helmets and never wore a cover. I didn't find anything wrong with it nor was I targeted (that I know of) for standing out or being shiny.

I see the covers being used for snipers, recon, etc...but a patrol of 8-15 dudes in the mtns of a-stan...or even in a village or whatever, helmet covers? really?

----

 

Ditch Medic

Joined: October 2009

Location: Washington State

quote:
I don't think you would want a helmet cover in only one color.

The head and shoulders are the most easily recognized feature on a human. This "picture" is deeply ingrained in our minds for various reasons. The profile of the head needs to be broken up by using a disruptive pattern.

Ideally, yes, and the guys in Afghanistan that get to wear a real camouflage pattern should wear a matching cover. I guess I meant that more for guys that couldn't count on their uniform being the same all the time and that aren't currently using helmet covers.

quote:
Last deployment we painted our helmets and never wore a cover. I didn't find anything wrong with it nor was I targeted (that I know of) for standing out or being shiny.

I see the covers being used for snipers, recon, etc...but a patrol of 8-15 dudes in the mtns of a-stan...or even in a village or whatever, helmet covers? really?

Yeah. Really.

There's a lot you can get away with in terms of camouflage when you're not trying to hide from anyone. The trend of ditching the helmet cover in favor of velcro and krylon stems from guys who's helmet would have been the last thing to give them away.

We've gotten away from the basics.

If I'm serious about not being seen, I'm probably not wearing a helmet--or the godawful ACU pattern. But there's no reason to knowingly violate principles of camouflage on a dismounted patrol, especially when there's an easy fix. Shine on any object will be seen before its color.

 

Know what you know; Know what you don't know. -Paul Petzoldt

I have helmet covers with about a 4x4 (maybe smaller,i dont know for sure) swatch of loop velcro sewn on.

The cover holds tight, velcro on the helmet I had on there kinda holds the cover in place a bit I guess, and have had no prob velcroing shit on when I need it,or to look cool Razz
I tried the painted helmet thing for a while. It never clicked with me. This winter I ordered a Multicam MICH cover from Tactical Tailor. When it came I just dismounted all the accessories, installed the cover and used my knife tip to poke hole where the various bolts needed to penetrate. I then mounted the accessories back up and went to work. No real drama, the cover fits snugly everywhere it should, and the whole package is now more functional.

I am a believer in the utility of covers.
For those of you in the Corps who wear a MICH/ACH, the standard reversible MARPAT cover in Sm/Md fits fine on a large helmet. Look at the Down Range Gear Goggle Retainers. They work in to the slots in the cover to hold all the things you strap to it. Take Shoe-Goo and glue Velcro on to the cover where you need it. The only thing I have on there is a V-lite strobe. I'm not high speed so I don't need anything else.

Common sense: so goddam rare, it should be a super power.

Does anyone know if Crye makes a mesh helmet cover that would fit an ACH/MICH?

quote:
Originally posted by driftevolution:
That SOD cover looks decent, but probably won't work with the ARC. The Crye mesh helmet cover is an interesting concept, one that should be explored more. Instead of installing the helmet cover and installing all the accessories over the top of it (I can never get the cover to look just right with the NODs mount, its always scrunched), why not install all accessories on the helmet, cut the cover to fit around the accessories, and then fasten it with velcro? I might try this with the ACU cover.

And why do I buy coyote gear instead of ACU or MC? The Army can't make its mind up about patterns, and I'm not buying 2 of the same rig just so I can make sure it matches. Isn't color-coordination an airsoft trait?

_________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ ON THE WWAAAYYY!!! followed by OH SHIT!!! means you won't be getting that promotion.

quote:
Originally posted by Ian0369:
For those of you in the Corps who wear a MICH/ACH, the standard reversible MARPAT cover in Sm/Md fits fine on a large helmet. Look at the Down Range Gear Goggle Retainers. They work in to the slots in the cover to hold all the things you strap to it. Take Shoe-Goo and glue Velcro on to the cover where you need it. I'm not high speed so I don't need anything else.


I have an M/L cover on my Large MICH.
I modded it myself with the interior Velcro attachments and sewed some Velcro on as well.
I'm not really attaching anything heavy to the helmet cover though.
A Firefly strobe is probably the biggest.

Tactical Tailor or any shop that does gear modification can easily do it.

IIRC VolBlind makes, or used to, a reversible marpat MICH cover for both 1-hole and 3-hole helmets.
quote:
Originally posted by Ian0369:
For those of you in the Corps who wear a MICH/ACH, the standard reversible MARPAT cover in Sm/Md fits fine on a large helmet. Look at the Down Range Gear Goggle Retainers. They work in to the slots in the cover to hold all the things you strap to it. Take Shoe-Goo and glue Velcro on to the cover where you need it. The only thing I have on there is a V-lite strobe. I'm not high speed so I don't need anything else.


Are the personal purchases or unit issue? Just wondering cause I have seen a couple of guys wearing them (our battalion gunner included).
Searched, but hadn't found.

Does any company make something similar to this:


This one is made for airosfters, but I like the idea (copy of crye helmet cover?).

 "Anatomy and Physiology is EVERYTHING. It is the difference between being a trained monkey and a medic"

-RESQDOC-

I always liked the way some units from the U.S. Army (pretty sure from the 101st) and Marine Corps covered their helmets with camo netting. Never done it myself, but in a place like Afghanistan, I'd think it'd be at least somewhat effective.

"Filling the air with bullets wont win a fight. You have to fill the enemy with holes."- Borebrush

They make them for all cuts of MICH helmets (00,01,02), but I won't trust them...

I don't want to post links to airsoft sites, but search for "Ebairsoft"...

I actually have helmet cover with pieces of camo netting, but will prefer something similar to this

 "Anatomy and Physiology is EVERYTHING. It is the difference between being a trained monkey and a medic"

-RESQDOC-

I am TDY so my reference books are unavailable, but.

The Marine Corps first issued helmet covers (frog pattern) in 1943.
That pattern remained in use throught the late 50's when the so called Mitchell Pattern entered the system, and then in the 70's with Woodland.
The Marine Corps issued Dig woodland reversable to Dig Desert for the MICH to Det 1 in 2003

The Army did not issue helmet covers in WW2 but did use two types of netting (wide mesh and small mesh).
During the Korean conflict some Army units used burlap (think the old sandbags) over the helmet, but they went to the Mitchell Pattern in the late 50's as well.

I received my first Crye made MultiCam MICH cover circa 2004.

Re the AirFrame camo cover. Cry makes these. As RgrGordo stated in a previous AirFrame thread, it will not fit the Ops-Core helmet.
Crye- and not OpsCore- will make the helmet cover for OpsCore.

The helmet cover cuts down on shine, something some Euros figured out in WW1. The Germans and Japanese had cloth covers as well, though not universally.

Helmet covers will once more be standard soon, and across the board.
quote:
Originally posted by em_twofourzero:
I always liked the way some units from the U.S. Army (pretty sure from the 101st) and Marine Corps covered their helmets with camo netting. Never done it myself, but in a place like Afghanistan, I'd think it'd be at least somewhat effective.


Slight sidetrack to the discussion.....

I'm pretty sure you're thinking of 10th Mountain. My old battalion, 1-32, started doing doing that in 2006 and now the entire 3rd Brigade wears that netting cause our old battalion Sergeant Major is now the Brigade Sergeant Major. The 173rd guys that replaced us started wearing it too, at least on that rotation. I'm sure there are other units that do it too on a case by case basis but I don't recall seeing any that it is SOP Brigade wide for other than 3rd BCT, 10th Mountain.
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Don't hit me with them negative waves so early in the morning.

Joined: 8/26/03    Location: US
The Marine Corps used to use scrim to break up the helmet and during OIF I many Marines used small peices of camo net zip tied on to their helmets to replicate this. It has since "gone out of style". I only did that to my helmet a few times but unless its done carefuly I could see it interfearing with NVG mounts (you would just have to keep it short in the front) and potentaly being a fire or drip hazard (depending on what you used). I think its a great idea depending on what type of operation you are doing. Idealy it would be a quickly detachable system, where you could put it on your helmet in the ambush or defense position and take it off when moving so it wouldn't get caught on things?

YATYAS

I found that camo net draped over the helmet tended to be snagged by branches. The post above mentioning a melt/drip hazard makes a good point. I found it was most effective to shred the camo scrim and thread it through the slits in the cover to allow the ends to hang out. It still changed the sillouhette, but eliminated the snag hazard.

I've been issued covered, painted, and (used)painted with velcro helmets. I admit, when I got the paint/velcro, I thought I'd look like an idiot airsofter, but soon came to appreciate the utility.

That said, I think the idea of a cover with some velcro sewn in the right places is probably the best way to go.

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"Stay safe?"  If you stay safe, you're doing it wrong.  When you can't be safe, be sharp.

On a med float in the mid 90's (i think), the BN SOP or at least the CO SOP was to have a piece of old cammie netting on the helmet.

When we started doing the work ups the word came down from the ACE that the cammie netting was a no go because it tended to get blown off the helmet during helo ops and was a FOD hazard. I dont know if there was an incident or if they were being proactive but I dont remember seeing camie netting on helmets after that.
quote:
Originally posted by sparky-kb:
quote:
Originally posted by em_twofourzero:
I always liked the way some units from the U.S. Army (pretty sure from the 101st) and Marine Corps covered their helmets with camo netting. Never done it myself, but in a place like Afghanistan, I'd think it'd be at least somewhat effective.


Slight sidetrack to the discussion.....

I'm pretty sure you're thinking of 10th Mountain. My old battalion, 1-32, started doing doing that in 2006 and now the entire 3rd Brigade wears that netting cause our old battalion Sergeant Major is now the Brigade Sergeant Major. The 173rd guys that replaced us started wearing it too, at least on that rotation. I'm sure there are other units that do it too on a case by case basis but I don't recall seeing any that it is SOP Brigade wide for other than 3rd BCT, 10th Mountain.


The "Lightfighters" of the 7th ID (L) were doing that in the 1980s.

A well-trained Special Forces' SADM ODA is like an artillery shell... once launched, it can not be recalled. No brass, no soldiers Sir!

Well i'm not trying to look like an airsofter, thats for sure. The problem with waiting on the Crye cover for the Ops-Core is that it is taking too long. Obviously the Crye cover for the AirFrame and the Ops-Core is super sexy, functional and made well, the problem is that they arent on sale yet and who knows when they will be. So if I can get the one listed above and modify it then that will be a working solution until someone starts selling an Ops-Core cover. Thanks for the info, if I get it to work will post pictures

Fanny
I wasn't saying we were the first to wear camo netting on our helmets. Shit, we wore burlap strips in our helmet covers in basic training. In recent history though, as in the last few years, we were the only ones I know of that it was the SOP both on deployment and in garrison. I'm just saying that if you see a picture of Soldiers in Afghanistan wearing camo netting on their helmet then it is a very good chance they are 3rd Brigade, 10th Mountain Division.
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Don't hit me with them negative waves so early in the morning.

Joined: 8/26/03    Location: US
A heads up, ACH covers can be modded to fit an OPS core helmet (in my case a base jump) (my cover fit a Med ACH and fits my M/L Ops Core)

I bought my ACH off an airsofter and it came with a fake crye printed cover that I replaced with a legit ACU cover- With 20 minutes of spare time I managed to get it cut down to fit another 20 mins to hand sew the velcro patches on the inside of the cover (the machine's needle didn't like getting gummed up with the adhesive on the back of my velcro)

The helmet itself only required two new patches of loop velcro on either side of the NODs mount because of the pre-existing velcro on it-

_____________________________

In whatever you choose to do,

Do it because it's hard,
Not because it's easy. -NdGT

 

Joined: 11/16/08                             Location: GA

quote:
Originally posted by sparky-kb:
I wasn't saying we were the first to wear camo netting on our helmets. Shit, we wore burlap strips in our helmet covers in basic training. In recent history though, as in the last few years, we were the only ones I know of that it was the SOP both on deployment and in garrison. I'm just saying that if you see a picture of Soldiers in Afghanistan wearing camo netting on their helmet then it is a very good chance they are 3rd Brigade, 10th Mountain Division.

Canadians have been doing this since 1930's. Not so much in Afghan, some guys still do though.

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"Roger Wilco Over and Out"

 

Joined: 5 Sep 06  Location: Canadian LO Desk..

quote:
Originally posted by LRS-1CD:
This thread needs more pics! Big Grin


Thread is useless without more pictures and links.
Wink
Well here's another picture to add to the thread.



I posted a couple of my painted one in the other thread so I figured I should post the long haired brother in this on lol.
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Don't hit me with them negative waves so early in the morning.

Joined: 8/26/03    Location: US
I would like to know when these will be available.



It is pretty odd that no-one is selling them seeing as how popular the fast helmets are.

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Joined February 7, 2006                  Location: West Coast

WC/DCU mich cover, cut to fit and added wc trim.

"Sir, Custer was a pussy. You ain't. " - CSM Plumley

"Warriors are not what you think of as warriors. The warrior is not someone who fights, because no one has the right to take another life. The warrior, for us, is one who sacrifices himself for the good of others. His task is to take care of the elderly, the defenseless, those who can not provide for themselves, and above all, the children, the future of humanity." --Sitting Bull 

 

I've posted this here on a different thread, but this was a reversible MARPAT cover that I cut down, shoe-goo'd, adjusted, and shoe-goo'd some more to fit this oddly-shaped CVC helmet. It just takes a little time and imagination. This is some of the fieldcraft stuff we are losing these days.

I even glued the velcro for the lip light battery pack on the back too.

It is better that they do it imperfectly than that you do it perfectly. For it is their war and their country and your time here is limited.

 

                                                                                                                        —T. E. Lawrence

 

 

POSREP: UAE

You could do heart surgery with shoe goo - or at least rig cut-down panels of a sea bag onto the front of a blouse and trousers to make a ghillie.

Yeah, it does about anything. And yeah, that's a glove tip. Good eye. i don't think I meant to do that on purpose though.

It is better that they do it imperfectly than that you do it perfectly. For it is their war and their country and your time here is limited.

 

                                                                                                                        —T. E. Lawrence

 

 

POSREP: UAE

I recently made some changes to the issued cover, mainly to regain the utility that I had with my painted helmet(ie..velcro and tie down points). I removed all of the IFF tabs, and also the Commo flap on the rear of the cover. I found (due to other LF'ers) a source for multicam loop velcro and had it placed along the left and right side, as well as the back. These points of loop allow me to mount my Drift innovation camera, and also an IR illuminator, and the rear panel is for an IR strobe. I also had a small piece of multicam webbing sew into a loop on the rear left side to act as an anchor point for my strobe and PVS-14's. This cover is very functional and also doesn't attract much attention from the FOBbits.. So far it works very well for me..

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Photos (1)
Mossy Oak dusted with tan Krylon. A few months of playing with this and I still like it. Started out as a joke. It's starting to peel off, so next time I'll put down some spray adhesive first. Or I'll just put a cover on it.

 

Know what you know; Know what you don't know. -Paul Petzoldt

here is my CF helmet. i dont currently have NODS or anything, so nothign like that is hooked up.

i typically either run the plain CADPAT helmet cover, and throw on the Hooah hair for when its required.



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-We are the sheepdogs, bad people looking out for the good people by killing worse people
-Don't get PTSD, Give PTSD. Make the taliban wake up screaming in the night because he fears Canadians are coming to Kill him.

-Location - Canada - Joined - 2006MAR19

Just curious, for those who've fought in OEF / GWI,II / other sandy shite holes of the world; has anyone tried dipping their helmet with or without a cover in mud and waited for it to dry out? It seems like a thin layer (just enough for some texture) of dried mud would go a long way in camouflaging your helmet.
Depending on the viscosity/consistency of the mud, I presume it'd break off in no time with heat and movement once it dries. Perhaps applying the mud on some netting could help keep it in place?
Am I talking nonsense and missing some angle of the concept (SOP's, etc)? Thanks.

Brendan

quote:
Originally posted by sparky-kb:
I wasn't saying we were the first to wear camo netting on our helmets. Shit, we wore burlap strips in our helmet covers in basic training. In recent history though, as in the last few years, we were the only ones I know of that it was the SOP both on deployment and in garrison. I'm just saying that if you see a picture of Soldiers in Afghanistan wearing camo netting on their helmet then it is a very good chance they are 3rd Brigade, 10th Mountain Division.


1/22IN had this as a BN standard prior to OIF 05/07. I'm pretty sure it went away about the same time that 4ID got ACU's. I think their sister BN's are in 10MTN.

quote:
Originally posted by squeak32:
Just curious, for those who've fought in OEF / GWI,II / other sandy shite holes of the world; has anyone tried dipping their helmet with or without a cover in mud and waited for it to dry out? It seems like a thin layer (just enough for some texture) of dried mud would go a long way in camouflaging your helmet.
Depending on the viscosity/consistency of the mud, I presume it'd break off in no time with heat and movement once it dries. Perhaps applying the mud on some netting could help keep it in place?
Am I talking nonsense and missing some angle of the concept (SOP's, etc)? Thanks.


I did this on a whim at Ft Polk back in 90 with a PASGT helmet/cloth cover. It didn't stay. As the mud dried, which was slowly considering it was late November, it would flake off.

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“You hear folks say all the time; ‘well, human beings don’t have a bullseye.’ So?! FIND ONE!” Matt E

"Just to be clear gents...it's a no shit, true story. The shit a grown man gets in to..." Gruntpain1775

quote:
Originally posted by Shadow4Golf:
quote:
Originally posted by sparky-kb:
I wasn't saying we were the first to wear camo netting on our helmets. Shit, we wore burlap strips in our helmet covers in basic training. In recent history though, as in the last few years, we were the only ones I know of that it was the SOP both on deployment and in garrison. I'm just saying that if you see a picture of Soldiers in Afghanistan wearing camo netting on their helmet then it is a very good chance they are 3rd Brigade, 10th Mountain Division.


1/22IN had this as a BN standard prior to OIF 05/07. I'm pretty sure it went away about the same time that 4ID got ACU's. I think their sister BN's are in 10MTN.

quote:
Originally posted by squeak32:
Just curious, for those who've fought in OEF / GWI,II / other sandy shite holes of the world; has anyone tried dipping their helmet with or without a cover in mud and waited for it to dry out? It seems like a thin layer (just enough for some texture) of dried mud would go a long way in camouflaging your helmet.
Depending on the viscosity/consistency of the mud, I presume it'd break off in no time with heat and movement once it dries. Perhaps applying the mud on some netting could help keep it in place?
Am I talking nonsense and missing some angle of the concept (SOP's, etc)? Thanks.


I did this on a whim at Ft Polk back in 90 with a PASGT helmet/cloth cover. It didn't stay. As the mud dried, which was slowly considering it was late November, it would flake off.


The M1 helmet (the steel one boy, I say the STEEL one) was painted (at production) with a gritty OD finish (always worn off and just spray painted over).

I have reproduced that with sand on a bump helmet.

A well-trained Special Forces' SADM ODA is like an artillery shell... once launched, it can not be recalled. No brass, no soldiers Sir!

quote:
Originally posted by Shadow4Golf:
I did this on a whim at Ft Polk back in 90 with a PASGT helmet/cloth cover. It didn't stay. As the mud dried, which was slowly considering it was late November, it would flake off.


I was afraid to hear that. Thanks for the reply, though. I'm still curious to whether or not a static type of netting (as opposed to dynamic and stretchy) would help by acting like rebar in concrete. I'd try it now myself but my TC2002 is +/-5 weeks out.

Brendan

I personally would not want to add any more weight than necessary to my noggin. Seems to me like dried mud might add some substantial weight. Just food for thought.

quote:
Originally posted by squeak32:
quote:
Originally posted by Shadow4Golf:
I did this on a whim at Ft Polk back in 90 with a PASGT helmet/cloth cover. It didn't stay. As the mud dried, which was slowly considering it was late November, it would flake off.


I was afraid to hear that. Thanks for the reply, though. I'm still curious to whether or not a static type of netting (as opposed to dynamic and stretchy) would help by acting like rebar in concrete. I'd try it now myself but my TC2002 is +/-5 weeks out.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Joined February 7, 2006                  Location: West Coast

quote:
Originally posted by ODA 564:
quote:
Originally posted by sparky-kb:
quote:
Originally posted by em_twofourzero:
I always liked the way some units from the U.S. Army (pretty sure from the 101st) and Marine Corps covered their helmets with camo netting. Never done it myself, but in a place like Afghanistan, I'd think it'd be at least somewhat effective.


Slight sidetrack to the discussion.....

I'm pretty sure you're thinking of 10th Mountain. My old battalion, 1-32, started doing doing that in 2006 and now the entire 3rd Brigade wears that netting cause our old battalion Sergeant Major is now the Brigade Sergeant Major. The 173rd guys that replaced us started wearing it too, at least on that rotation. I'm sure there are other units that do it too on a case by case basis but I don't recall seeing any that it is SOP Brigade wide for other than 3rd BCT, 10th Mountain.


The "Lightfighters" of the 7th ID (L) were doing that in the 1980s.



Many many years ago when the 25th still had an (L) after it, we had a display in our Company area in front of the CQ desk that had some helmet covers like that. Other than A Trp, 3/4 Cav in the field a couple times, I never saw one modded and worn in that fashion.
quote:
Originally posted by Awwbugman:
I personally would not want to add any more weight than necessary to my noggin. Seems to me like dried mud might add some substantial weight. Just food for thought.


That thought had crossed my mind and I agree that most things don't belong on your dome. I thought maybe just the thinnest layer of mud smeared on for some texture might be negligible but I guess not. Shadow4Golf may be able to chime in on the substantial weight gain to his LWH.

Moving along now. Sorry for derailing the thread, folks.

Brendan

quote:
Originally posted by ASSCHAPS:
quote:
Originally posted by ODA 564:
quote:
Originally posted by sparky-kb:
quote:
Originally posted by em_twofourzero:
I always liked the way some units from the U.S. Army (pretty sure from the 101st) and Marine Corps covered their helmets with camo netting. Never done it myself, but in a place like Afghanistan, I'd think it'd be at least somewhat effective.


Slight sidetrack to the discussion.....

I'm pretty sure you're thinking of 10th Mountain. My old battalion, 1-32, started doing doing that in 2006 and now the entire 3rd Brigade wears that netting cause our old battalion Sergeant Major is now the Brigade Sergeant Major. The 173rd guys that replaced us started wearing it too, at least on that rotation. I'm sure there are other units that do it too on a case by case basis but I don't recall seeing any that it is SOP Brigade wide for other than 3rd BCT, 10th Mountain.


The "Lightfighters" of the 7th ID (L) were doing that in the 1980s.



Many many years ago when the 25th still had an (L) after it, we had a display in our Company area in front of the CQ desk that had some helmet covers like that. Other than A Trp, 3/4 Cav in the field a couple times, I never saw one modded and worn in that fashion.


Many years ago, they did it. I was in the 25ID from '93-'96 and we had to wear that crap. Right before I left, the new Division commander put an end to it, so fast, he might as well have ordered it at the change of command ceremony.

Bob

----------------------------

"Good landing, good fight, and good luck" James M. Gavin 09Jul43

 "they say if it works, it's a good tactic...I say anything can work once" 

quote:
Originally posted by ODA 564:
quote:
Originally posted by sparky-kb:
quote:
Originally posted by em_twofourzero:
I always liked the way some units from the U.S. Army (pretty sure from the 101st) and Marine Corps covered their helmets with camo netting. Never done it myself, but in a place like Afghanistan, I'd think it'd be at least somewhat effective.


Slight sidetrack to the discussion.....

I'm pretty sure you're thinking of 10th Mountain. My old battalion, 1-32, started doing doing that in 2006 and now the entire 3rd Brigade wears that netting cause our old battalion Sergeant Major is now the Brigade Sergeant Major. The 173rd guys that replaced us started wearing it too, at least on that rotation. I'm sure there are other units that do it too on a case by case basis but I don't recall seeing any that it is SOP Brigade wide for other than 3rd BCT, 10th Mountain.


The "Lightfighters" of the 7th ID (L) were doing that in the 1980s.



25th ID (L) did this too. Looked cool till shit got wet and heavy as hell.

----------------------------
Infantry, the original green movement.
If you get hit, take the hit and return fire.
"Life is too short and too hard to waste drinking shitty booze." -DirtySanchez

 

Joined Date: Sometime in 2009????   Location: home of shiftless squatters, robbers, and cutthroats, who make the bowie-knife and the pistol the law of the land.

I am authorized to paint my helmet and it is painted. But after I bought my own ACH I realized that I didn't want to throw money away by letting the helmet get damaged. So I modded an issue Multi-cam helmet cover and put it on over my cool guy painted helmet. I have found that I like it much better this way.









So I took the standard cover and removed the flap at the rear. Sewed PALS on the back for holding a Boo Boo pouch and added velcro onto the cover. additionally I routed bungie cord for secondary retention for my strobe.

"Our Country won't go on forever, if we stay soft as we are now. There won't be any AMERICA because some foreign soldiery will invade us and take our women and breed a hardier race!" -Lt. Gen. Lewis B. "Chesty" Puller, USMC

Thanks brother. This thread is what pushed me over the edge to do it. I am contemplating cranking out a woodland one too.

"Our Country won't go on forever, if we stay soft as we are now. There won't be any AMERICA because some foreign soldiery will invade us and take our women and breed a hardier race!" -Lt. Gen. Lewis B. "Chesty" Puller, USMC

Vet Medic- Any way you can give a description of how everything fits in place and what you did?

Is that bungee along the strobe?

I'm really surprised that someone hasn't made an "updated" helmet cover when you consider how much of a IFF/Signal/Illumination/Eye Pro mounting tool the helmet has become.

Cheers, Matt

"It is easy to go down into Hell; night and day, the gates of dark Death stand wide; but to climb back again, to retrace one's steps to the upper air - there's the rub, the task."    Publius Vergilius Maro, The Aeneid

Have been on the fence about painting or cover and was looking around the "interweb" when I came across this:

Add says it's "real" Crye material. Shipping from APO/FPO. Made? I thought a bit weird. Under $30.00. Sent a few questions to the dude.



Plenty of loop for whatever.



I like the pouch in the back as done by others. Some "old guy" around here once said that it is better to have usable counter weight like bullets on strips rather than dead weight useless lead.

For the price I went ahead and ordered one. Doing the guinea pig for the rest of us When it comes in and is tried out for fit and quality I'll post back.

ETA: Dude got back to me and says they are made in China with US materials Mad

If some LFer were to make these I'm sure they would sell like hot cakes, even at prices covering the material + American labor. Razz

 

 

"You want fashion advice? I'm sure the Fashion Channel has your name all over it.

Last time I checked, this was Lightfighter, not Vogue. Worrying about how you are  dressed in a hippie-zone. Really?"

 

yetibob, after 8 pages of fashion buzz. LMAO

 

Joined: 8/09       Location: Behind enemy lines in MD. planing my exfil. 

 

quote:
Originally posted by RRTX:
Has anybody heard anything else from Ops Core on when their cover might be available? Last I heard was September but that has come and gone.


As a matter fact I sent a message to OPS CORE today about this exact subject. As soon as I hear something back I will post it.
"Fuck your power point presentation."
Virgil,

I will get some more pics for you. But what I did was pretty simple. The bungie for the strobe actually uses the holes in the cover for foliage and then crosses over the strobe and ties into the PALS for the Boo boo pouch.

Ateixeira

That Cover looks great I will be looking forward to the info you have on it once you recieve it. I think it might be a better base than the issue cover.

"Our Country won't go on forever, if we stay soft as we are now. There won't be any AMERICA because some foreign soldiery will invade us and take our women and breed a hardier race!" -Lt. Gen. Lewis B. "Chesty" Puller, USMC

This is one of those "Foreign made from US components" helmet-covers.

It has foilage-loops and does what I wanted it to (protecting the helmet from abrasion and minimizing the sheen of the bare-helmet)
The tan-velcro that was originally on the cover did not stick very well; so adhesive-backed velcro was stuck to the helmet, and I cut the cover and melted the edges to prevent fraying. The V-Lites, Manta, and flags are attached directly to the helmet




Joined: 8/12/04         Location: NC

Glin great looking cover let us know how it holds up.

Here are some more pics of the modifications I did to my helmet.


With the Blue Force Gear pouch attached at the back


This is a pic of the PALS grid and flap modification. It also shows the Bungie which runs through the ends of the PALS and has a toaster lock on one side and a knot on the oter for adjusting tension.

This shows where the bungie cord runs through the foliage loops under the velcro


Overall shot of the modifications to the cover.

Hope these help you guys get a better idea of what I did. As I mentioned before this cover is V1. I plan on making at least 2 more covers in the V2 version if you will one in MC and one in woodland.

"Our Country won't go on forever, if we stay soft as we are now. There won't be any AMERICA because some foreign soldiery will invade us and take our women and breed a hardier race!" -Lt. Gen. Lewis B. "Chesty" Puller, USMC

Where are you guys finding these covers? While they may not be super high-quality, helmet covers wear out anyways, so if they aren't too expensive it might warrant a purchase of a few.

An' it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' anything you please; 
An 'Tommy ain't a bloomin' fool - you bet that Tommy sees!       -Kipling

quote:
Originally posted by P-Hustle:
Where are you guys finding these covers? While they may not be super high-quality, helmet covers wear out anyways, so if they aren't too expensive it might warrant a purchase of a few.


I know that Tactical Tailor sells them. About $20 I think.

@Gene--that cover looks awesome!
Well done Gene...I'm digging the added security for your strobe the most...

On another note...my MICH is about to take a back seat to a TC2001, anyone know of source for covers for them?

VM's pics have inspired me...

" I want half of you over here, half of you over here and the other half of you over there..."

Glin,
where'd you find that?

quote:
Originally posted by Glin1216:
This is one of those "Foreign made from US components" helmet-covers.

It has foilage-loops and does what I wanted it to (protecting the helmet from abrasion and minimizing the sheen of the bare-helmet)
The tan-velcro that was originally on the cover did not stick very well; so adhesive-backed velcro was stuck to the helmet, and I cut the cover and melted the edges to prevent fraying. The V-Lites, Manta, and flags are attached directly to the helmet

_________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ ON THE WWAAAYYY!!! followed by OH SHIT!!! means you won't be getting that promotion.

quote:
Originally posted by paladyn:
Glin,
where'd you find that?


I scored it here:
www DOT tacticalairsoftsupply DOT com/shop/g-emerson-sp-multicam-cover.html

Airsofter kit, but this company is based out of the US. So far... it is holding up, but I have hardly put much abuse on it. Time will tell

Joined: 8/12/04         Location: NC

quote:
Originally posted by Virgil:
I'm really surprised that someone hasn't made an "updated" helmet cover when you consider how much of a IFF/Signal/Illumination/Eye Pro mounting tool the helmet has become.


Crye actually makes a MICH/ACH cover with more or less what you described..I have some pics floating around here somewhere on a buddies helmet. They aren't commercially available however...
I remember them making one at one time... haven't seen it for a minute.

Cheers, Matt

"It is easy to go down into Hell; night and day, the gates of dark Death stand wide; but to climb back again, to retrace one's steps to the upper air - there's the rub, the task."    Publius Vergilius Maro, The Aeneid

Crye does make a MICH/ACH cover but good luck getting your hands on one. They are not listed on the website and when I tried to buy one I was told that they didn't sell them. I am not 100% sure the girl new what I was talking about but she said they weren't for sale.

A quick review of the 2011 catalog doesn't show them.

"Our Country won't go on forever, if we stay soft as we are now. There won't be any AMERICA because some foreign soldiery will invade us and take our women and breed a hardier race!" -Lt. Gen. Lewis B. "Chesty" Puller, USMC

Paladyn, I've thought about ordering that cover to use on my Ops-Core, looked at ordering the MICH 2002 style. My concern is the quality, how would it hold up being used the the brush where it gets snagged etc. If you don't mind me asking what do you use the helmet for & how often etc...My Ops-Core is used for Law Enforcement & Training. Cover will be used for operations working with the local game warden....so it will be in the bush.

"Remember No Matter How Good You Are, There's Always Somone Luckier Or Better Than You"

184SFS,
I don't own the helmet cover in question. Glin does. That being said I do share the same concerns. If it priced fairly reasonably then in terms durability its not going to be as big of a concern, especially when the life expectancy of a helmet cover is generally a year or less.

A question that does come to mind is whether any of the Crye dealers here on LF would be willing to stock CP ACH/MICH helmet covers?

quote:
Originally posted by 184SFS:
Paladyn, I've thought about ordering that cover to use on my Ops-Core, looked at ordering the MICH 2002 style. My concern is the quality, how would it hold up being used the the brush where it gets snagged etc. If you don't mind me asking what do you use the helmet for & how often etc...My Ops-Core is used for Law Enforcement & Training. Cover will be used for operations working with the local game warden....so it will be in the bush.

_________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ ON THE WWAAAYYY!!! followed by OH SHIT!!! means you won't be getting that promotion.

paladyn,
Sorry, I meant to direct it @ glin....

So please Glin, chime in....I am also wondering how well the cover would fit around the Ops-Core NVG mount.

"Remember No Matter How Good You Are, There's Always Somone Luckier Or Better Than You"

quote:
Originally posted by 184SFS:
My concern is the quality, how would it hold up being used the the brush where it gets snagged etc. If you don't mind me asking what do you use the helmet for & how often etc...My Ops-Core is used for Law Enforcement & Training. Cover will be used for operations working with the local game warden....so it will be in the bush.


I'm only using mine for personal training-time (~2 outings a month) and one-weekend-a-month when in uniform (Armed Forces Reserve). So far I've got no issues with it, but it is still too early to form an accurate assessment.

If there was an identical US-made helmet-cover commercially available, I'd be using it.
In my eyes; a lot of the durability is attributed to the materials used in construction. I don't know the source of the mesh, but upon handling it myself it seems fairly robust (well... as robust as mesh can be). I was told the reinforced-cordura around the shroud is genuine Crye material and from comparing the cover to some genuine Crye Multicam articles I've got; this does appear to be the case.
As I mentioned previously, the tan-velcro that was originally attached (and subsequently removed by me) didn't hold worth a shit. The stitching looks good but looks alone are not an accurate assessment of durability. One of the most important components are the straps that attach the cover to the helmet. The manufacturer used black-velcro that holds much better than the aforementioned tan-velcro, and I did my own informal "stress test" on these straps (yanking on them with a substantial amount of force) with nary a busted-stitch.
They did cut some corners on some of the minute details (the excess material in the foilage-keepers were simply tucked away and stitched over, ends were not melted), but this is easily overlooked as it should have no effect on durability.
quote:
Originally posted by paladyn:
That being said I do share the same concerns. If it priced fairly reasonably then in terms durability its not going to be as big of a concern, especially when the life expectancy of a helmet cover is generally a year or less.

I've always had good luck with my issued helmet-covers. Aside from some sordid-looking stains; all the helmet-covers I've used have shown few signs of wear. My noggin has rubbed up against many a mud-brick walls, bumped against some painfully sharp-edges inside an armored vehicle, and waded through what I would consider thick foilage. Even through all that... if you've got the cover on tight with no excess-material flopping about; I don't imagine the cover should get torn up very much at all.

quote:
Originally posted by 184SFS:
I am also wondering how well the cover would fit around the Ops-Core NVG mount.

The shroud sits underneath the reinforced Multicam Cordura, and is sized accordingly to allow the interface-square to be completely exposed. I've got a Norotos shroud on my helmet and the interfacing square is the same size as the VAS. If you're running a FAST helmet; you'll probably need to place some holes into the cover to attach the bungees to your shroud.
A friend of mine is getting one of these covers for a TC2002 and is going to try attaching the cover to his FAST. He plans on removing the ARC rails, pulling the cover taut, strategically melting holes into the cover, and re-attaching the ARC rails through the mesh. I'm sure he'll chime in here with his findings.

Joined: 8/12/04         Location: NC

[QUOTE]Originally posted by P-Hustle:
What happened to them? For the life of me I can't seem to figure out when helmet covers began to suck and painted helmets became the norm.../QUOTE]


Helmet covers make it easier to affix foliage to the helmet.
US Army Military Police 97-03 Federal LEO/ K-9 Handler/MRT Member/ 05-Present NRA Life Member
quote:
Originally posted by CAGUY97th:
quote:
Originally posted by RRTX:
Has anybody heard anything else from Ops Core on when their cover might be available? Last I heard was September but that has come and gone.


As a matter fact I sent a message to OPS CORE today about this exact subject. As soon as I hear something back I will post it.


I received a response back from Ops Core. They stated "we are finalizing the helmet cover and and we do not have a release date yet".
"Fuck your power point presentation."
I've been working on a Crye Mesh Helmet Cover for Mellon_Killer's TC2001, using Multicam Mesh and the new Multicam-printed Loop Velcro. Its taking me a bit longer due to having to figure out how much stretch to incorporate into my pattern since I've only got a Medium and Large CG634 Gallet.

I found the Hong Kong-made airsoft replicas on eBay for $14.24 with free shipping, for future use as a pattern.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/New-Ca...&hash=item2312f8d74a

"AG Holder's Fast n Furious Guns have killed more cops than M855"

 

1995 5SFG M1025A2 GMV IAIF2 

Looking for M72A5-A9 tubes, 2x AT4/M136 Tubes

"and the LORD Almighty will shield them. They will destroy and overcome with slingstones. They will drink and roar as with wine; they will be full like a bowl used for sprinkling the corners of the altar." Zechariah 9:15

Snake doc,

Sorry I didn't get back to you quicker. Those rails come from Advanced Warfighter Solutions (AWS) in Fayetteville. There are very similar to the CSM gear ones.They consist of an aluminum strap with holes for mounting a plastic rail section or whatevery else you can come up.

"Our Country won't go on forever, if we stay soft as we are now. There won't be any AMERICA because some foreign soldiery will invade us and take our women and breed a hardier race!" -Lt. Gen. Lewis B. "Chesty" Puller, USMC

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